OT: PGA and LIV Golf to merge….

[Ty Webb]

None of these guys are “hurt” by this.

At the end of the day, the only people "hurt" are those like Monahan that see their reputations sink even lower than they already were.

But financially everyone wins. LIV guys pocketed serious cash and now can go play PGA events. PGA guys will probably see larger purses. Norman, even if he isn't involved in the new merger, made a ton and will get a ton, no doubt, to even go away. Monahan looks like a hypocritical asshole but he's still the CEO of the new venture and probably got a hefty pay raise. And the Saudis can probably now start to see some return on their investment as with the PGA, they now have access to real sponsors, TV contracts, etc. They couldn't get that as a stand alone league.

 

[mikemarc1]

The more you read, the more Monahan and the PGAT management look like shit heels here. They are literally praising the PIF now when 12 months ago they they thought they were hell on earth. LOL. Money talks, no matter who is spending it.

Monahan and the Tour looked like shit throughout this whole ordeal

 

[Ty Webb]

So how does this all work?

There is a new entity, largely controlled by the PGAT with it's largest investor the PIF that is the parent of the PGAT, DP World Tour and LIV? And those entities will still operate as they do now just with more collaboration and player sharing between the three?

 

[WhiteBus]

None of these guys are “hurt” by this.

None of those involved in the LIV got hurt. They are all big winners $$. The PGA wins as they no longer have to pay by themselves the big money events. The pro golfers around the world are big winners. The losers here are the DP Tour and the UAE. They will become the Korn Ferry tour in Europe.
It's a great day for world golf!

 

[Ty Webb]

None of those involved in the LIV got hurt. They are all big winners $$. The PGA wins as they no longer have to pay by themselves the big money events. The pro golfers around the world are big winners. The losers here are the DP Tour and the UAE. They will become the Korn Ferry tour in Europe.
It's a great day for world golf!

LIV wins because they now likely get access to CBS, ESPN, NBC, TNT and all the others that broadcast the PGA Tour. LIV couldn't live on CW forever.

Everyone involved just got richer today.

 

[mikemarc1]

So how does this all work?

There is a new entity, largely controlled by the PGAT with it's largest investor the PIF that is the parent of the PGAT, DP World Tour and LIV? And those entities will still operate as they do now just with more collaboration and player sharing between the three?

That would be my thinking..

Probably won’t see much difference week to weeks besides the majors and the big non-major events. But the low level events..I’d still expect the big names to skip for LIV events…(again, was LIV’s intentions all along)

 

[mikemarc1]

LIV wins because they now likely get access to CBS, ESPN, NBC, TNT and all the others that broadcast the PGA Tour. LIV couldn't live on CW forever.

Everyone involved just got richer today.

The thing is..I still expect there to be low level pga events on weeks of LIV events. Will these low level events be bumped to Golf Channel while the big names play in the LIV events..which will be on cbs or nbc?

Lots of shake our regarding how this partnership will work..since it appears both tours will still operate

 

[Ty Webb]

That would be my thinking..

Probably won’t see much difference week to weeks besides the majors and the big non-major events. But the low level events..I’d still expect the big names to skip for LIV events…(again, was LIV’s intentions all along)

Yeah I don't see how this helps the lower level PGA events but honestly, even pre-LIV, some of those low level ones barely had any great golfers in them.

 

[Ty Webb]

The thing is..I still expect there to be low level pga events on weeks of LIV events. Will these low level events be bumped to Golf Channel while the big names play in the LIV events..which will be on cbs or nbc?

Lots of shake our regarding how this partnership will work..since it appears both tours will still operate

There is going to be a lot of stuff that has to come out. For example, if LIV keeps the team thing, which appears to be the case, how do they handle payouts for teams if there are teams that have guys shuffling in and out from the PGAT?

I saw someone on twitter made the comment that he thinks eventually the team thing will just go away. And LIV events will become like designated events on steroids. Like a league inside a league.

 

[mikemarc1]

Yeah I don't see how this helps the lower level PGA events but honestly, even pre-LIV, some of those low level ones barely had any great golfers in them.

May even just eliminate those lower events all together…or use them as qualifiers or something for low ranked golfers?

 

[WhiteBus]

I'm sure Brooks Koepka's PGA win accelerated the negotiations.

 

[Ty Webb]

May even just eliminate those lower events all together…or use them as qualifiers or something for low ranked golfers?

The problem is those events raise a lot of money for charities and the local economies. And the PGAT made a big stink about it in the LIV fight. Would be kind of chickenshit on their part to then leave those low events out to dry or just cancel them.

 

[mikemarc1]

There is going to be a lot of stuff that has to come out. For example, if LIV keeps the team thing, which appears to be the case, how do they handle payouts for teams if there are teams that have guys shuffling in and out from the PGAT?

I saw someone on twitter made the comment that he thinks eventually the team thing will just go away. And LIV events will become like designated events on steroids. Like a league inside a league.

Maybe teams expand? Better golfers decide to join LiV events and teams go from 4 to 6.

But only 4 play each event..leaving room for 2 to decide if they want to skip, play the pga event, etc….?

 

[RUEd]

It’s a meaningless point now but did anyone watch LIV on the C W network. Man was it awful. Looked like it was shot on an iPhone

 

[mikemarc1]

The problem is those events raise a lot of money for charities and the local economies. And the PGAT made a big stink about it in the LIV fight. Would be kind of chickenshit on their part to then leave those low events out to dry or just cancel them.

Agree.

 

[WhiteBus]

LIV wins because they now likely get access to CBS, ESPN, NBC, TNT and all the others that broadcast the PGA Tour. LIV couldn't live on CW forever.

Everyone involved just got richer today.

You kept banging the LIV couldn't survive without income and TV. Yet in less then a year in business they proved you wrong dramatically!

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm sure Brooks Koepka's PGA win accelerated the negotiations.

Ive seen others suggest this but I don't see the logic. Koepka winning the PGA wasn't some sort of financial death blow to the PGAT nor some sort of financial windfall for LIV. It's not like his winning would suddenly crater the PGA viewership and they all run to LIV or have sponsors run to LIV.

I suspect pace was driven by external factors, litigation being one. The PGAT was afraid to get hammered and the PIF wanted no part of potentially having to open their books and have their top guys sit for depositions.

 

[WhiteBus]

The PGA no longer will be a nonprofit entity. They become a for profit business.

 

[Ty Webb]

You kept banging the LIV couldn't survive without income and TV. Yet in less then a year in business they proved you wrong dramatically!

They survived by merging with the PGAT.

You think they would have merged with the PGAT right now if they were rolling in billions in TV and sponsorship money?

 

[mikemarc1]

They survived by merging with the PGAT.

You think they would have merged with the PGAT right now if they were rolling in billions in TV and sponsorship money? The fact they threw a ton of money at the PGAT to merge kind of tells you they knew they couldn't survive on their own.

Yea. I think this was always their goal…to get the PGA Tour.

 

[WhiteBus]

They survived by merging with the PGAT.

You think they would have merged with the PGAT right now if they were rolling in billions in TV and sponsorship money? The fact they threw a ton of money at the PGAT to merge kind of tells you they knew they couldn't survive on their own.

Haha. You are still going with that spin?? It's the PGA looks silly through this year long mess. The LIV are now partners with PGA! I'm sure that doesn't sit well with you with all of your anti LIV BS since the beginning. Please explain why the PGA and yourself are now ok with the Saudi money.

 

[LETSGORU91]

Yay!!! Phil is back!!!!

 

[T2Kplus20]

One thing is certain, Greg Norman is the loser here. No mention of him at all.

Greg Norman is one of the big winners. Changed the sport and made crazy money doing it. Mission accomplished.

 

[Ty Webb]

Haha. You are still going with that spin?? It's the PGA looks silly through this year long mess. The LIV are now partners with PGA! I'm sure that doesn't sit well with you with all of your anti LIV BS since the beginning. Please explain why the PGA and yourself are now ok with the Saudi money.

It's not spin. It's just reality.

Do you think that LIV would have been able to survive on its own for 5-6 more years if they didn't have a real TV deal, sponsors, etc? The answer is not likely. Shoot, even the Saudis kind of admitted that late last year when they said that getting a TV deal was tantamount for them. They weren't going to throw money at this forever with no real return. And the only way they were going to make money here was get a TV deal and major sponsors. They couldn't do it on their own so they did the next best thing, throw a ton of cash at the PGAT and buy their media access/sponsors/infrastructure.

As for your question, you won't find a comment from me about blood money. My issues with LIV were that I thought Norman was a snake, the players broke up the tour just to chase cash, and all this talk about player freedom was largely BS. It was a cash grab, plain and simple.

 

[T2Kplus20]

It's not spin. It's just reality.

Do you think that LIV would have been able to survive on its own for 5-6 more years if they didn't have a real TV deal, sponsors, etc? The answer is not likely. Shoot, even the Saudis kind of admitted that late last year when they said that getting a TV deal was tantamount for them. They weren't going to throw money at this forever with no real return. And the only way they were going to make money here was get a TV deal and major sponsors. They couldn't do it on their own so they did the next best thing, throw a ton of cash at the PGAT and buy their media access/sponsors/infrastructure.

As for your question, you won't find a comment from me about blood money. My issues with LIV were that I thought Norman was a snake, the players broke up the tour just to chase cash, and all this talk about player freedom was largely BS. It was a cash grab, plain and simple.

Norman was right that the PGA wasn't allowing players to make their fair market value. They were restrictive and treated players like crap. That created the possibility of a LIV popping up and it eventually did. This is all the PGAs fault.

 

[WhiteBus]

It's not spin. It's just reality.

Do you think that LIV would have been able to survive on its own for 5-6 more years if they didn't have a real TV deal, sponsors, etc? The answer is not likely. Shoot, even the Saudis kind of admitted that late last year when they said that getting a TV deal was tantamount for them. They weren't going to throw money at this forever with no real return. And the only way they were going to make money here was get a TV deal and major sponsors. They couldn't do it on their own so they did the next best thing, throw a ton of cash at the PGAT and buy their media access/sponsors/infrastructure.

As for your question, you won't find a comment from me about blood money. My issues with LIV were that I thought Norman was a snake, the players broke up the tour just to chase cash, and all this talk about player freedom was largely BS. It was a cash grab, plain and simple.

Yes it's a cash grab. I've been saying this from the beginning. This should have been done last year. But the PGA dug the trenches, said the money was "blood" and you jumped in that trench from day one. Nobody is buying your spin or Monahan's on TV just now.
How do you know that the LIV wouldn't get money from TV after this year. The PGA sure did, otherwise they wouldn't have made this deal.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes it's a cash grab. I've been saying this from the beginning. This should have been done last year. But the PGA dug the trenches, said the money was "blood" and you jumped in that trench from day one. Nobody is buying your spin or Monahan's on TV just now.
How do you know that the LIV wouldn't get money from TV after this year. The PGA sure did, otherwise they wouldn't have made this deal.

Except I didn't jump in the blood money trench at all. You won't find me lamenting the naughty players taking blood money on this board. You can keep saying it but it doesn't make it true. Shoot, I even posted about players I thought would make the jump such as Koepka and how it would make sense for a guy like him.

How do we know that LIV wouldn't get money from TV after this year? They literally announced they would stop sharing TV viewership and streaming numbers just a few weeks ago after their initial events had dud numbers. Do you think CBS or ESPN or NBC would be fighting for TV rights this offseason when their viewership numbers were so low? They likely were going to have to roll with the CW arrangement for another year if they wanted to be on TV.

The PGA isn't merging with LIV because of their TV potential beyond this year. They are merging because the PIF is about to throw a ridiculous amount of money at them.

This a win all around for everyone when you look at it from a risk perspective. The biggest risk for the PGAT was another offsason of the Saudis throwing disgusting money and peeling off more top players. The biggest risk for LIV was the fact they had floundering viewership and it would be tough to get a real TV deal and sponsors, which they absolutely needed. This deal basically mitigates all that risk now.

 

[mikemarc1]

My hot take….Monahan is OUT after the 4pm meeting with players

 

[WhiteBus]

My hot take….Monahan is OUT after the 4pm meeting with players

Well if I were Monahan I'd hide from Rory. He stirs up Rory to defend the PGA and lets him hang in the wind while he is putting this deal together. Monahan has made every wrong step along the way!

 

[Section124]

I am just waiting for the "defender of the PGA Tour" poster to contribute here. He needs his talking points. I don't expect any contribution from him until after Monahan speaks to the players.

 

[Ty Webb]

My hot take….Monahan is OUT after the 4pm meeting with players

He should be but that would be quite a turn of events............. the press release this morning says he's the new CEO of the new entity and then 8 hours later, he's shitcanned.

LOL.

Or maybe he's technically fired as head of the PGA Tour but still stays on as the CEO of whatever new entity is created.

 

[RuSnp]

Norman was right that the PGA wasn't allowing players to make their fair market value. They were restrictive and treated players like crap. That created the possibility of a LIV popping up and it eventually did. This is all the PGAs fault.

If I'm Adam Silver I have Plan B C and D ready to go. Because if I had endless oil money that's where I'd go next. You convince - hell - even the top 5 NBA players to join some new league for oodles of cash along with the best high schoolers? Rinse (many definitions in this case) and repeat

 

[WhiteBus]

Except I didn't jump in the blood money trench at all. You won't find me lamenting the naughty players taking blood money on this board. You can keep saying it but it doesn't make it true. Shoot, I even posted about players I thought would make the jump such as Koepka and how it would make sense for a guy like him.

How do we know that LIV wouldn't get money from TV after this year? They literally announced they would stop sharing TV viewership and streaming numbers just a few weeks ago after their initial events had dud numbers. Do you think CBS or ESPN or NBC would be fighting for TV rights this offseason when their viewership numbers were so low? They likely were going to have to roll with the CW arrangement for another year if they wanted to be on TV.

The PGA isn't merging with LIV because of their TV potential beyond this year. They are merging because the PIF is about to throw a ridiculous amount of money at them.

This a win all around for everyone when you look at it from a risk perspective. The biggest risk for the PGAT was another offsason of the Saudis throwing disgusting money and peeling off more top players. The biggest risk for LIV was the fact they had floundering viewership and it would be tough to get a real TV deal and sponsors, which they absolutely needed. This deal basically mitigates all that risk now.

Who was the more desperate side. You make it sound like the LIV side. Meanwhile the PGA couldn't get the money fast enough when they realized the designated events weren't sustainable from a cash outlay point. As mentioned in the last hour on the Golf Channel.
The LIV succeeded today, hit a home run and at no time did you ever think that was possible. You were wrong and your spin today is simply laughable.
We do agree this is great for the future of golf. I'm glad this crap is over. I just want to see the best players play.

 

[T2Kplus20]

My hot take….Monahan is OUT after the 4pm meeting with players

How can anyone trust him ever again? He cost a lot of players a massive amount of money.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Huge news in golf…

Not sure what it means for either side yet…

PGA Tour agrees to merge with Saudi-backed rival LIV Golf

The PGA Tour is merging with Saudi-backed rival LIV Golf, following months of tensions and mounting lawsuits between the competitors.

www.cnbc.com

I didn't like LIV because of the Saudi connections. Now, PGA has similarly tarred itself. But, oh boy, the sweet beautiful money to be made. Viva Sports Monopolies!

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

As a small sidebar, the Saudis nationalized four of their soccer teams - one of whom shelled out nearly unimaginable sums on Ronaldo.

 

[Ty Webb]

Who was the more desperate side. You make it sound like the LIV side. Meanwhile the PGA couldn't get the money fast enough when they realized the designated events weren't sustainable from a cash outlay point. As mentioned in the last hour on the Golf Channel.
The LIV succeeded today, hit a home run and at no time did you ever think that was possible. You were wrong and your spin today is simply laughable.
We do agree this is great for the future of golf. I'm glad this crap is over. I just want to see the best players play.

I am not sure who was the more "desperate side". I think if you were looking at long term staying power, the PGA was likely to survive longer than LIV simply because at the end of the day, golf is entertainment. And you need eyeballs to make it work and the PGA had them and LIV did not. Everything is generated from eyeballs - TV revenues, sponsors, media coverage, etc. For all the bluster about the money the Saudis were throwing at it, people must not have noticed that the Saudis kept telling (and made moves) to actually try to make it a viable business model.

You could argue both were desperate. PGA wanted to just kill LIV and keep them from potentially throwing hundreds of millions at more of their best players. LIV was throwing billions into a project with no revenues or return and none really on the horizon.

LIV succeeded in that they are now a sustainable product having tied itself to an entity that has what they want/need. Prior to today, they had a shelf life until they could prove they could generate real interest and viewership. It's kind of preposterous to not be able to admit that. And the PGA succeeded in they have killed the threat of their best players leaving and taking viewers and sponsors with them.

 

[Ty Webb]

An underrated potential winner.

The CW.

I am not sure how long their contract with LIV is but if it's for more than this year, they may have just reaped a windfall. Their deal with LIV basically means all they do is share the ad revenue. They don't have to pay for production, hosts, etc. LIV covers all of that. If that deal stands up and continues, CW is about to see a potential crap ton of new ad money and they don't really have to pay a cent to get it.

 

[WhiteBus]

I am not sure who was the more "desperate side". I think if you were looking at long term staying power, the PGA was likely to survive longer than LIV simply because at the end of the day, golf is entertainment. And you need eyeballs to make it work and the PGA had them and LIV did not. Everything is generated from eyeballs - TV revenues, sponsors, media coverage, etc. For all the bluster about the money the Saudis were throwing at it, people must not have noticed that the Saudis kept telling (and made moves) to actually try to make it a viable business model.

You could argue both were desperate. PGA wanted to just kill LIV and keep them from potentially throwing hundreds of millions at more of their best players. LIV was throwing billions into a project with no revenues or return and none really on the horizon.

LIV succeeded in that they are now a sustainable product having tied itself to an entity that has what they want/need. Prior to today, they had a shelf life until they could prove they could generate real interest and viewership. It's kind of preposterous to not be able to admit that. And the PGA succeeded in they have killed the threat of their best players leaving and taking viewers and sponsors with them.

Well the Saudis just did make it a viable business. Yet you keep talking about TV deals. SMH. They have an equal seat at the table of controlling golf worldwide. I don't understand how you think that paying in for that seat is a bad thing. Being on the biggest stage in golf is what they were after. They got it. Enjoy the crow.

 

[WhiteBus]

Chamblee is taking himself out of a job right now. Professional suicide live on TV