You can use this logic to dismiss the potential for any cover-up at a large institution to ever occur.
OT: Sandusky Story Gets Worse
- Thread starter mikemarc1
- Start date
A few points, to make it clear since so many go out of their way to muddy the waters or overstate what's known:
In Nov 2011, Paterno issued a statement saying "If this is true we were all fooled."
Of course Paterno knew that he was informed of SOMETHING by McQueary. The seriousness of which was relayed in AD Tim Curly Feb 2001 email "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps."
Based on just that:
It clear that Paterno was willing to lie to the press AND Paterno was on board with the "next steps" penalty for Sandusky being caught acting inappropriately (Joe said McQueary did not make the inappropriate behavior as clear as he later made it to authorities [but as we know Joe is willing to lie on this subject]) with a boy in the lockerroom showers, was to be restricted from accessing football facilities and little else especially not reporting it to anyone outside the university.
Certainly more can be reasonably inferred but at least that much is collaborated by the email evidence and the actions of Curley, Schultz, Spanier and Paterno. That is enough for me to say they are four monumental pieces of shit, that betrayed the trust of positions, and their responsibility to the victims.
In Nov 2011, Paterno issued a statement saying "If this is true we were all fooled."
Of course Paterno knew that he was informed of SOMETHING by McQueary. The seriousness of which was relayed in AD Tim Curly Feb 2001 email "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps."
Based on just that:
It clear that Paterno was willing to lie to the press AND Paterno was on board with the "next steps" penalty for Sandusky being caught acting inappropriately (Joe said McQueary did not make the inappropriate behavior as clear as he later made it to authorities [but as we know Joe is willing to lie on this subject]) with a boy in the lockerroom showers, was to be restricted from accessing football facilities and little else especially not reporting it to anyone outside the university.
Certainly more can be reasonably inferred but at least that much is collaborated by the email evidence and the actions of Curley, Schultz, Spanier and Paterno. That is enough for me to say they are four monumental pieces of shit, that betrayed the trust of positions, and their responsibility to the victims.
They all built their careers on having Penn State on the resume. The one coach who DID say anything (McQB guy) was destroyed for doing it.
I know. Thats why Im asking - what is it in a human being that can allow for this? We all have this to an extent (I wouldnt snitch on my mother), but whatever the hell allowed these people to do this cover up is beyond normal. This trait allows for so much negativity to happen.. scary stuff out in PA.
Despite Penn State banning Sandusky from bringing boys onto the main campus in 2002, he was allowed to operate a summer camp through his Sandusky Associates company[25] from 2002 to 2008 at Penn State's Behrend satellite campus near Erie, where he had daily contact with boys from fourth grade to high school.[4
We Are State Penn!
We Are State Penn!
From Penn Live news,"Lokman also would not say whether the 1976 incident raised in the PMA case was one of the 30 or so that have resulted in monetary settlements."
30 or SO and add another ~35 years of Freedom to molest children. Some one high up knew there was a major issue with this many SETTLEMENTS! This had to be know through out the administration with this much money and settlements. the cult nature at this "middle of Redneck country", could only prevail with many many shut mouths and closed minds. This is the most frightening exposure of this new news.
YO is there anyone in backwoods PA with "BALLS" to speak up. So F'in sad
30 or SO and add another ~35 years of Freedom to molest children. Some one high up knew there was a major issue with this many SETTLEMENTS! This had to be know through out the administration with this much money and settlements. the cult nature at this "middle of Redneck country", could only prevail with many many shut mouths and closed minds. This is the most frightening exposure of this new news.
YO is there anyone in backwoods PA with "BALLS" to speak up. So F'in sad
You answered your own question. These people feel just as strongly about Paterno as they do about their mothers (if not more).
At the Alamo Bowl was one of those boys-- a Second Mile kid who had traveled with the coach to the game. He would later tell investigators, according to a grand jury report, that Sandusky sexually abused him for about two years.
That weekend, he said, when he tried to resist Sandusky's advances, the coach threatened to send him home. #We Are State Penn!
there were members of the police and even detectives who knew about this. Didnt the one detective Gricar end up disappearing? - he is the guy who decided not to press charges on sandusky back in the day. This is bizarre stuff .
You know there is more paper out there.
Harrisburg Patriot News
Why is a fresh allegation about Jerry Sandusky and Joe Paterno hitting the streets now?
If PSU really wanted the truth to come out they could waive the confidentiality agreements required for the victims to receive compensation.
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If it is true, needs to be told and hoping it isn't because of pure evil might sound good but glad it got out , if true, is what should be the reaction.
There was enough circumstantial evidence that pointed to him knowing, but not solid enough to have any charges stick.
I have no idea if Schiano knew or didnt or had a feeling or whatever but one thing he said at a press conference a while back always stuck with me for whatever reason.
He was asked what he learned from working under Paterno. He said something along the lines of "this is going to sound weird, but Joe taught me not to worry about things until you have to worry about them. Just put them on the shelf."
Certainly creepy in hindsight.
I just want the whole story to come out, then decide if Paterno should be despised for what he allowed or be looked at in a different manner because he only did the minimum and wasn't actively involved.
But there's some circumstantial evidence that points to Joe Paterno leading the cover-up and what I hope is that is disproved or proof of him doing that is found.
Evil sometimes shows on face in public and the evil person is respected, but the private part shown to a few is the type of evil that most people don't want to see in anyone.
I think it is the same as the church sex abuse scandal.
Putting the institution above the needs of the individual victims and a lack of leadership at the top. If various bishops came out and denounced the things going on 20, 30, 40 years ago, those lower in the organization would have been much more comfortable bringing issues forward. As it was, when the cover-up occurs at the highest level and everyone circles the wagons, it becomes that much more difficult to go against your peers and the institution (because exposing the institution would harm the church and the church does all sorts of good things).
Obviously, in this case, Paterno was the 'Pope of the Institution of Penn State Football'. If he was willing to tolerate Sandusky and keep him around, how could a lower level person like McQueery blow the whistle, thus harming Pope Paterno and Penn State football.
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That's the usual cult defense, attack those disgusted by the Penn St cover up by using the victims.
That just shows the cult doesn't care what happened , they only care about what happens to PSU FB.
Don't let the cult scum get to you with their insensitive attacks using Sandusky's victims as their repulsive attack because the cult don't want to see anything discussed about Penn St and Paterno's involvement and how Sandusky was protected by PSU's leadership.
And this why, No, we should not give the JoeBots, or PSU alums more generally, a break on this topic. They keep pushing it and won't let go.
Harrisburg Patriot News
Penn State alumni group petitions school to honor Joe Paterno
Harrisburg Patriot News
Penn State alumni group petitions school to honor Joe Paterno
"A day before court papers revealed that a child allegedly told Joe Paterno in 1976 that he had been abused by Jerry Sandusky, the Penn State Alumni Association petitioned university leadership to honor Paterno."
As a former catholic from a very catholic family and current enlightened atheist I completely agree. The church did the same thing penny state did. Put their own cult's self interest over the health and well being of poor innocent children. There is an extra level of disgust with the church though since they are a religion. Inexcusable. Indefensible.
This is the part that I think bothers a lot of us.
They can't get past the denial and anger stages.
Couple of scary posts on BWI:
"JoeDidntKnow said: ↑
Joe is NEVER tough to defend. We Are.... because He Was"
------------------------
bjamin41 said: ↑
Fact
We know Joe was told about the abuse when that ginger came to him.
Fact
We know that Joe did the absolute minimum in regards to putting an end to the abuse
Fact
We know that Joe was the most powerful employee at the university
Fact
We know that Sandusky raped children in the PSU facilities
Fact
We know that Joe allowed Sandusky to use the facilities even after he found out about the abuse.
Fact
We know that Joe said "I wish I could have done more" and he was more concerned about the "universities procedures" so he in his own words "backed away" and turned over the issues to someone else.
Those are the facts... If a victim comes forth about the 1979 abuse, it would just be another fact to what we already know. Until then we can only go but what we know for sure.
What we all know sure...
Joe Paterno cared some much about the University, his legacy and his football program that he went as far as to cover up for a child rapist to protect it.
The sick part is... All Penn State fans know everything above, but yert they still support Joe, last year many fans wore buttons and tee shirts with 409 on it, the shirt represents Joe's wins. So may of the fans want the statue back, fans still hold signs up supporting Joe at the games and wearing other things like his black sneakers and thick glasses to the game.
No new allegations will change how PSU fans feel about Joe and what went down, the are completely brainwashed into believing he is a saint no matter what.
21Guns Responds:
Fact: If I ever meet you, I'll beat you so bad that your entire family tree will need traction.
"JoeDidntKnow said: ↑
Joe is NEVER tough to defend. We Are.... because He Was"
------------------------
bjamin41 said: ↑
Fact
We know Joe was told about the abuse when that ginger came to him.
Fact
We know that Joe did the absolute minimum in regards to putting an end to the abuse
Fact
We know that Joe was the most powerful employee at the university
Fact
We know that Sandusky raped children in the PSU facilities
Fact
We know that Joe allowed Sandusky to use the facilities even after he found out about the abuse.
Fact
We know that Joe said "I wish I could have done more" and he was more concerned about the "universities procedures" so he in his own words "backed away" and turned over the issues to someone else.
Those are the facts... If a victim comes forth about the 1979 abuse, it would just be another fact to what we already know. Until then we can only go but what we know for sure.
What we all know sure...
Joe Paterno cared some much about the University, his legacy and his football program that he went as far as to cover up for a child rapist to protect it.
The sick part is... All Penn State fans know everything above, but yert they still support Joe, last year many fans wore buttons and tee shirts with 409 on it, the shirt represents Joe's wins. So may of the fans want the statue back, fans still hold signs up supporting Joe at the games and wearing other things like his black sneakers and thick glasses to the game.
No new allegations will change how PSU fans feel about Joe and what went down, the are completely brainwashed into believing he is a saint no matter what.
21Guns Responds:
Fact: If I ever meet you, I'll beat you so bad that your entire family tree will need traction.
Ad Hominem: Ad hominem short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[
Maybe they think if I don't actually see it it's just a rumor. Getting ahead in FB coaching is all about the relationships. No one is going to go public with rumors without absolute proof. They'd be torching teir career. Sad but likely true.
There are aspects that I'm still kind of amazed haven't been pursued that hard. Such as, if Sandusky was such a great coach, why didn't he ever get a head coaching spot somewhere? From what I've read, it almost sounds like there were rumors about him throughout the coaching ranks. Has anyone spoken with guys (like ADs) who would have been in the position of hiring coaches during that period of time to see if they ever had any interest in Sandusky? Or if they were somewhat told not to go after him?
And I think it's very dangerous to ASSUME that every coach at Penn State (or every player) would have known about what Sandusky was doing. We have ZERO proof that Schiano or others had known. I'd like to think that McQueary wasn't the ONLY person who ever saw or heard about this who figured he should do something about it.
Considering that sexual predators probably live in the neighborhoods of EVERYONE reading this board, their actions are not well known. Just scan the maps of where the registered sex offenders are throughout NJ -- there are many more of them throughout the entire state than we ever want to think about. I'm guessing the vast majority of them have committed crimes their neighbors will never know about.
And I think it's very dangerous to ASSUME that every coach at Penn State (or every player) would have known about what Sandusky was doing. We have ZERO proof that Schiano or others had known. I'd like to think that McQueary wasn't the ONLY person who ever saw or heard about this who figured he should do something about it.
Considering that sexual predators probably live in the neighborhoods of EVERYONE reading this board, their actions are not well known. Just scan the maps of where the registered sex offenders are throughout NJ -- there are many more of them throughout the entire state than we ever want to think about. I'm guessing the vast majority of them have committed crimes their neighbors will never know about.
The whole scene out there is worse than Waco and Jonestown. Happy Valley even sounds like a cult for crissakes. The sad part is they are Dr.'s, lawyers, school teachers and every other walk of life. They really have no concept of how they are perceived by those outside the cult and if they did, they probably wouldn't care.
Not even close.
Just trying to think through how he could have put himself into a corner (at least in his mind) which prevented him from doing the right thing.
If you haven't already, you should all see the film Spotlight, it is about how a Boston newspaper uncovered the Catholic Church child rape scandal.
If you want to have an idea on how Penn State got away with it for all these years, please watch that movie, it is also a great film period but it really shows you how something like this could happen and why.
Everyone should see it.
If you want to have an idea on how Penn State got away with it for all these years, please watch that movie, it is also a great film period but it really shows you how something like this could happen and why.
Everyone should see it.
Does anyone else find it loathesome the way, with their repeated, consistent use of "Joe Paterno" in every single reference, that the Paterno family seems more concerned with protecting a brand than their deceased father? I mean, this guy's legacy is obviously a tremendous cash cow/cottage industry for them, but to me, this is so overt that it makes a sickening story even more so.
I worked in insurance liability law for over a decade as well and there are two things at play here. An occurrence prior to the policy's date of inception or prior to a new line of coverage being added would be grounds for a reservation of rights and potential exclusion of coverage. If the insured (Penn State) paid the plaintiffs out of pocket and are seeking reimbursement from their liability carrier(s), they need to show that the occurrences were within the policy period. If PSU took out additional coverage in the late '90's then that coverage would not apply to the occurrences in '76 and '87/'88. Also, if the carrier contends that Penn State had prior knowledge of occurrences and did not disclose this information to the carrier prior to the purchase of the coverage, then the carrier will fight paying the claims. As NIRH said, the insurance carriers will leave no stones unturned so regardless of what comes out during discovery in the pending criminal hearings for the PSU administrators, more information is likely to come to light from the insurance claims investigation.
Not only loathsome but I find Jay to be a very creepy guy. This is what you get when you put up statues of people while they are still alive and working at the same institution. Its called idolatry. When we went up there to see the RU game, it was disturbing to see the people creating a shrine where the statue used to be. Some of these people sat there the whole game and others came by to pay their respects as if it was Medjugorje and they were expecting Joe to descend from heaven. Not unlike the picture below.
Of course he kept him around. Keeping him around meant Paterno could control the flow of information. If he let him leave and Sandusky continued his behavior which he obviously would, then Paterno could not control how any investigation was conducted. By having an assistant coach granted emeritus status Paterno kept Sandusky under his eye so he could keep protecting the brand. It is the only reason to have kept him there. Once he chose not to turn him in at the very beginning (which now appears to be as early as 1976) he was complicit and his only choice was to keep it quiet. People never learn. The cover up almost always causes more damage than the original act. Own up and have Sandusky arrested at the onset and Paterno would have been a hero because he would have been "doing things the right way".
I had previously read a dec action filed by one of the carriers, and they wanted to deny coverage based on the prior knowledge exclusion.
This judge did not appear to agree with that argument in the instant case but it's appealable and the cat is out of the bag.
Well, the judge and everyone not a fan of pedophile protectors.
I think he had it in for Joe.
It is not a necessity that Sandusky had anything on Joe Pa. Paterno had choice between turning Sandusky in or hiding the incidents. Paterno could simply have felt that if he turned Sandusky in that this type of conduct would reflect so badly on the entire program that the damage could be irreparable. as a result he chose to protect the brand rather than turn him in. He might have believed that Sandusky would stop the behavior once Paterno was aware of his behavior. Unfortunately the behavior continued and the situation got worse but by then it too late to do anything about it so the cover up just snow balled. We will never know
