And we wonder what’s wrong w the education system in our country - being white precluding a worthty candidate from not getting in, and outwardly being informed of this, is criminal
OT: The New Ivies
- Thread starter Morrischiano
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Which part of these groups demands do you view as being seen in a positive light in the future?
Length of protest is kind of irrelevant. Protestors should be allowed to protest in a public/common space, as long as they want, as long as they don't directly threaten other people or don't prevent others from getting into buildings.
And when they do, they need to be shut down immediately
Which, as previously mentioned, we’ve seen in Florida and Texas, respectively
Yeah (we're White) that is what scares me but he can get into Johns Hopkins, Williams, Amherst (D3) and Georgetown (FCS) due to academics/football but he's not quite getting traction at the Ivies yet. So he has options. But he's not sure if he wants to play football in college if it's not in the Ivy League.
What we are seeing at the colleges is partly about Israel and Jews but its larger than that.
For a few decades, many Jewish academics, admins and donors helped construct the "diversity" edifice thinking they were protected by it (Ivies used to discriminate against Jews).
Now that the DEI/CRT tsunami has risen, Jews are now underwater and left out with other people deemed white/colonial "supremacists."
"William Jacobson, clinical professor of law at Cornell Law School and founder of The Legal Insurrection Foundation, was there when CRT started brewing.
“All those racialized ideologies were in their formative stages at Harvard Law School,” he said recently on the Mark Reardon Show. “And nobody really paid attention to them then. But what they were doing is they were beginning, even back then, to cast the Israeli Arab dispute in very racial terms, that they would build coalitions of non-white student groups against Israel.”
We’re seeing both the nightmare and the explanation for the nightmare unfold in real time.
Jacobson says that “now everything in colleges is about race… every dispute is now in terms of white oppressor versus non-white oppressed. And that is how the Israeli Arab dispute or Israeli-Palestinian dispute is portrayed relentlessly on campuses.
It’s not that hard to connect the dots. Critical race theory put race on top of the intellectual food chain, which empowered intersectionality as race permeates all causes, which nurtured a victim culture around group identity (with Palestinian victimhood at its heart), which led to the giant, pervasive bureaucracy of DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion) that became the coup de grace in rotting academia.”
How the Growing Rot of Academia Has Made Jews Enemy #1
This hollowing out of academia’s ideals-- such as excellence, meritocracy, diversity of views and the search for truth— has hit the Jews especially hard.
jewishjournal.com
Killing of innocent people with US tax payer dollars.
How come they aren’t protesting the war in Ukraine? Surely innocent Russians are being killed with out tax dollars.
We thought Berkeley was a lock. Our oldest was writing code for a Berkeley comp sci prof and is listed as an author on the software for the website. Had been doing this since 7th or 8th grade. We were given a personalized tour of the EE/CS department by this professor, and he took a full day off to take us sight seeing. Rejected. Nothing is certain at the top schools, even the Johns Hopkins, the Berkeleys, the Northwesterns, etc. In the end, we were more pissed about the lack of acceptance than the kid, but with the pandemic and school shutdowns, being close to home worked out really well. And the Rutgers experience was superb in every way. Graduated with a near perfect GPA, and the CS and math departments have a great reputation and placement in top companies.
I wonder if Berkeley has a similar policy in place…
Not really. And a real bad strawman fallacy.
Ukraine is not indiscriminately bombing dense civilian areas. (Israel is)
Russia is heavily bombing civilian areas in Ukraine. (War crime as is what Israel is doing: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml)
The radicals use CRT to excuse millions of people from any kind of character flaw, failure, hardship etc and transfer the causes to millions of others just based on their race. That's exactly what Nazi's did and exactly what's being seeded now. The "protestors" are coordinated and toxic haters. They do not mean well and should not be seen that way
Yeah it's scary. Now the focus is on economic diversity, which in a way is probably the correct way of addressing disadvantages. The poor white kid in Appalaccia should have a better shot at Ivies than black son of two Google lawyers in Summit. And to be honest, my son has had the advantages that I didn't get as a poor first generation white kid in Elizabeth NJ. But I paid my own way through RU, got a MBA from Cornell and then provided for our kids. My wife grew up poor in Brooklyn, went to Dartmouth and went to medical school. We did it the hard way, with no preference but we did get financial aid for undergrad (I think RU cost me $5,000 - $6,000 out of pocket a year).
I honestly don't know where he will end up but the next 10 months will be exciting/nerve wracking.
Color should not matter
Adnimission to Ivy’s or anywhere should be based on Merritt and Merritt alone
If the black kid from Summit who’s parents were both lawyers is doing better scholastically than the white kid from Appalachia, and he should be admitted before the white kid from Appalachia
Conversely, if the white kid from Appalachia is doing better scholastically than the blackhead from Summit with two parents with lawyers, he should be admitted into the Ivy
Just like in society, jobs should not be based on color. It should be based on aptitude, ability, and merit.
So if Russian soldiers started hiding in children’s hospitals or under schools Ukraine would just stop? How many innocent people did we kill in the Middle East? Where were the protests? How come nobody was upset when Biden droned a family for cheap headlines? Finally, I’f that was really the driving issue why don’t we see signs that simple say. End the war. Save innocent life? Wouldn’t that make a better point?
When the hammers were taken to the windows last night during the occupation of of building at Columbia last night the bad apples took the lead. They weren't running things at the beginning.
The bad apples have been in the lead since Day 1. At least to anyone paying attention.
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Query, if the poor white kid from presumably a poor school in Appalachia scores 1400 on the SAT and the black kid from Summit scores 1450, who has shown more aptitude, ability and merit? Not talking about a 1050 and a quota.
That’s where the other variables kick in
Sports, clubs, extracurricular, activities, essays, volunteer opportunities, etc.
Merritt who?
I'm just comparing my experience v my son's.
I studied for the SAT by buying one Princeton Review soft cover book for $8. My son got thousands of dollars of private test tutoring by a ACT specialist and took by weekly practice tests to game him up to a 36.
He is going to a top private school. I went to the biggest public HS in the country. His education is much much better.
If a poor white kid in Appalachia got a 35 on the ACT then that is much more impressive than my son's or the black kid's 36.
Story writer has a 2018 polysci degree from St. Olaf's in MN. An education writer.
Who the hell knows what her criteria were.
Who the hell knows what her criteria were.
Could be, but again there’s other variables involved like I just said in my previous post if the numbers are similar
Either way, colors should not play part in anything, ever
I would imagine most on this board, including myself, do not choose jobs, places to live, or friends based on Color
We choose them for comfortability, etc.
I’m whiter than Eminem and couldn’t care less of my entire block was black, Asian, etc. - and imagine most people on this board Share a similar mindset
For some reason, we keep going back to Color, and in reality, Color should not mean shit
Nope. My daughter had a good friend. Wasn’t even top 10 in her class. Nothing spectacular about her or her application. But she was black and she got into a bunch of Ivy’s and nobody else did. She was rich, went to expensive prep schools, fly’s private for vacations and lives in a multi million dollar home. Such is life.
I think it of it as "raw talent". It's like a kid who never run track before steps up in running shows and runs a 10.8 100m. It's more impressive than the kids running track with personal track coach and $200 track spikes running a 10.5.
Like this a lot, from University of Florida:
"This is not complicated. The University of Florida is not a day care, and we do not treat protesters like children—they knew the rules, they broke the rules, and they'll face the consequences," Orlando said.
For many days, we have patiently told protesters—many of whom are outside agitators—that they were able to exercise their right to free speech and free assembly. And we also told them that clearly prohibited activities would result in a trespassing order from [the University Police Department] (barring them from all university properties for three years) and an interim suspension from the university.
"For days, UPD patiently and consistently reiterated the rules. Today, individuals who refused to comply were arrested after UPD gave multiple warnings and multiple opportunities to comply."
"This is not complicated. The University of Florida is not a day care, and we do not treat protesters like children—they knew the rules, they broke the rules, and they'll face the consequences," Orlando said.
For many days, we have patiently told protesters—many of whom are outside agitators—that they were able to exercise their right to free speech and free assembly. And we also told them that clearly prohibited activities would result in a trespassing order from [the University Police Department] (barring them from all university properties for three years) and an interim suspension from the university.
"For days, UPD patiently and consistently reiterated the rules. Today, individuals who refused to comply were arrested after UPD gave multiple warnings and multiple opportunities to comply."
That's fair, so long as the rules are fair (like if you put your sign down you will be arrested- which is one of the rules).
Enforcing rules
Imagine that
Kudos to the school in Hogtown (I almost threw up in my mouth saying that)
Columbia should the a cue
This is where several thought leaders/scholars (Coleman Hughes, Glen Loury, John McWhorter) think that preferential policies should be based- on economic disadvantage, and not race or other factors.
But $45,000? That excludes a lot of working poor in California (actually, on both coasts).
Absurd. Denied the right to declare a STEM major because of what your parents make. Why would any kid interested even apply if they could be prohibited?
I'm in the same boat as you. Slogged it through RU, paid my own way, and graduated with $6K in debt that I paid off within 6 months because debt has always scared me.
If I had to choose, and I don't have a choice, I would rather these decisions be based on economic disadvantages than on race/color alone. But will the top schools then be excluding the best and the brightest in favor of lowering standards to less smart and/or less qualified applicants? We are seeing this in a range of professions such as airline pilots. Quite frankly, I want the most skilled pilot, and I don't care whether the cockpit is full of white men, black women, or an all LGQBTQIA crew (we have several family members in the LGBTQUIA crowd), as long as they are all highly qualified and up to the job.
Anecdotally, however, knowing someone who has a family member that is a teaching at an Ivy medical school, some students are being "waved through" despite their medical school performance. In high risk fields such as operation of aircraft, military, police, firefighting, etc, it is a fair question to ask whether society should care about diversity over skill level and aptitude for the job.
Back to your kid/kids. I truly believe that instilling the values of hard work, empathy, community service and being reliable and stepping up to do the hard tasks are more important than where they go to school. Sure, an Ivy or a Johns Hopkins will open doors, but as you may have seen, some (maybe many) who went to the "finer" schools do not have the same grit as a people such as you or your wife, who made the "hard way" earning it. We were concerned that our kids might feel privileged, and not be hard workers, and would coast. Kid 1 is out and doing well. Kid 2 is well on the way (half way through Physician Assistant program) and absolutely crushing school, a public health fellowship in South America this summer, and an active volunteer. YMMV, but the traits instilled by parents can mean more than an expensive degree from a fancy school.
It's weird because sometimes I feel like my son has no grit because he has no interest in a job or likes to stay in bed until noon on the weekends but on the other hand he does 3 hours of home work a night and then will run 5 miles round trip to the gym to lift for 2 hours. I guess we spoil our kids and then complain that they're spoiled.
First of all, congratulations. Your son has accomplished some wonderful things.
Historically the Ivy kids (and schools like Stanford and MIT) often are given a pass at the start where they are anointed for success. There is no real "prove it" at the start for them. They get a pass on that metric to start. There are kids just as smart, if not smarter, at a lot of the top tier state schools and other privates. These kids often did not get the benefit of the doubt like the Ivy kids at the start. That is changing though for some top state schools (UNC, UVA, Michigan, Cal, UCLA) and many elite privates (USC, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, NYU, Baylor). Hence, it too is moving toward no difference.
Regardless of the above, I will say my observation is that they get the head start after graduation that others don't get, but the others many times outwork them and surpass them relatively quickly.
Not that I am aware of. If it does, they don't seem to be following it (or so it seems) based on admissions I am aware of.
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Like most things on Twitter just a soundbite to get people riled up and waive their political flags. This is for switching majors and just a factor that includes prioritizing California residents (taxpayers) and low income.
BTW all the University of California schools and some Cal State Schools are capping out out state and prioritizing the in state. Caps are higher at Cal and UCLA followed by UC San Diego and then the remaining 6 UC schools. At the same time all have expanded enrollment for now but that may not matter after 2025 when demographic shifts move towards fewer students enrolling.
Keeping more of CA residents
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I just went through the process with my oldest. The only thing I can tell you is that there are a lot of exceptional kids in NJ. All of them are qualified but most of them will not get into the school they want to go. But they will all go to elite colleges.
University of Florida is #1 for total Jewish Students.
Check out #2..
Top Colleges with Highest Jewish Populations (2024) | Ivy Coach
Learn which universities in America and Canada boast the most significant Jewish populations among student bodies.
www.ivycoach.com
