OT: Whiny Franklin

[chase07470]

He blames negative recruiting, the reality is Hackenberg's trashing of him and the program did more to hurt PSU than any talk about Sandusky. O'Brien was able to recruit great classes as it was all happening.

When your QB writes a public thank you letter mentioning the old coach and not you and then tells multiple NFL team the problem with his performance and PSU's performance was the head coach...you have given your opponents a lot of fodder to work with. Sandusky doesn't help but what went down there last year is a bigger issue.

The guy was a flavor of the month coach who was a risky hire and it looks like he's just not a top tier coach.

 

[Caliknight]

Franklin is snake oil who is setting the bar for another mediocre season so he doesn't get fired. I have never heard of a coach publicly talk about a season two years away.

Franklin is perfect for Penn St.

 

[MADHAT1]

Wasn't Flood's existence in and of itself a negative recruiting tool against RU?

Flood proved to be his own negative recruiting tool against Rutgers , just like other schools giving their honest opinion about Penn St is considered negative recruiting by Franklin.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

He blames negative recruiting, the reality is Hackenberg's trashing of him and the program did more to hurt PSU than any talk about Sandusky. O'Brien was able to recruit great classes as it was all happening.

When your QB writes a public thank you letter mentioning the old coach and not you and then tells multiple NFL team the problem with his performance and PSU's performance was the head coach...you have given your opponents a lot of fodder to work with. Sandusky doesn't help but what went down there last year is a bigger issue.

The guy was a flavor of the month coach who was a risky hire and it looks like he's just not a top tier coach.

So much wrong here, where to begin?

Hack didn't write a letter thanking anyone, the comments you're referencing there were in a live interview after a game. He's since apologized for the way he handled that situation, and has denied he spoke poorly of the coaches in his NFL interviews, as have other NFL sources. That "leak" was almost certainly posturing by some team in the lead-up to the draft. And ultimately, none of this has had any impact on recruiting.

Speaking of which, you referenced OB's classes. Franklin's staff has easily performed better on the recruiting trail. Also, I didn't read Franklin's comments as "blaming" negative recruiting for anything; in reality, it hasn't even been all that effective. Like I said, PSU has recruited just fine the past couple of seasons. Simply, Franklin was just answering a question. I don't see how anyone could argue with the fact that the PSU job carries with it some unique challenges at this point.

This is all much ado about nothing.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

 

[chase07470]

So much wrong here, where to begin?

Hack didn't write a letter thanking anyone, the comments you're referencing there were in a live interview after a game. He's since apologized for the way he handled that situation, and has denied he spoke poorly of the coaches in his NFL interviews, as have other NFL sources. That "leak" was almost certainly posturing by some team in the lead-up to the draft. And ultimately, none of this has had any impact on recruiting.

Speaking of which, you referenced OB's classes. Franklin's staff has easily performed better on the recruiting trail. Also, I didn't read Franklin's comments as "blaming" negative recruiting for anything; in reality, it hasn't even been all that effective. Like I said, PSU has recruited just fine the past couple of seasons. Simply, Franklin was just answering a question. I don't see how anyone could argue with the fact that the PSU job carries with it some unique challenges at this point.

This is all much ado about nothing.

He did in fact write a letter omitting Franklin that you now see above. He told multiple NFL teams that Franklin ruined the Penn State offense and therefore, his college career. He also made it known in many other ways only after doing all of that, backtracking and trying to get himself out of it, because, you know, it's never good to be a whiny bitch.

When the staff is also leaving you, of course it impacts recruiting. It's like a giant flashing signal, "This is the beginning of the end." He's not a top flight coach, it's clear now. And he's an annoying prick on top of it. Good luck with him. Just hope he manages to do enough this year that he stays for another.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

He did in fact write a letter omitting Franklin that you now see above. He told multiple NFL teams that Franklin ruined the Penn State offense and therefore, his college career. He also made it known in many other ways only after doing all of that, backtracking and trying to get himself out of it, because, you know, it's never good to be a whiny bitch.

When the staff is also leaving you, of course it impacts recruiting. It's like a giant flashing signal, "This is the beginning of the end." He's not a top flight coach, it's clear now. And he's an annoying prick on top of it. Good luck with him. Just hope he manages to do enough this year that he stays for another.

He did not, in fact, write a letter. The post above is the transcript of Hack's comments to the media after the bowl game. Please get a clue about what you're talking about.

 

[chase07470]

He did not, in fact, write a letter. The post above is the transcript of Hack's comments to the media after the bowl game. Please get a clue about what you're talking about.

Well, then he read a letter at his press conference because those are not comments, that's written. And My God, how damning of Franklin!

"I think without him. I wouldn't be here. He's what this place is all about." He might as well of jut said, "And it's certainly not about this current jack ass coach who nearly ruined my career."

At least Miami admitted their mistake with Golden, ponied up and got out. Just love that PSU is riding Franklin down the backward momentum road. Hope he stays forever.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Well, then he read a letter at his press conference because those are not comments, that's written. And My God, how damning of Franklin!

"I think without him. I wouldn't be here. He's what this place is all about." He might as well of jut said, "And it's certainly not about this current jack ass coach who nearly ruined my career."

At least Miami admitted their mistake with Golden, ponied up and got out. Just love that PSU is riding Franklin down the backward momentum road. Hope he stays forever.

For the last time, they were comments made live and in person after the bowl game. I don't understand why some people can't just admit it when they're wrong. And it wasn't even a formal press conference in the media room; it was a media scrum where he was surrounded by reporters and very clearly was not reading a prepared statement.

As for the comment about OB, well, he recruited Hack, so it seems pretty obvious that Hack wouldn't have been at PSU without he and the other guys on that staff. Either way, you seem to be one of the few people concerned. The four- and five-star prospects that have committed to Franklin since Hack's live post-game interview don't seem too bothered.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

James Franklin is a good talker and he is good into tricking kids to commit to Penn State. I am sure Penn State's class this year will be just fine. It could easily be ranked above ours. This wouldn't shock me at all.

Franklin however has not proven in anyway that he is a good game day coach at his current job or at his last job at Vandy.

Penn State's schedule this very easy compared to Rutgers. So he should have another year with inflated numbers in the win column .

1. Kent State - easy win
2. Pittsburgh - should be a win
3. Temple - rebuilding year, should be a win
4. Michigan - lost
5. Minnesota - should be win
6. Maryland - should be a win
7. Ohio State - lost
8. Purdue - easy win
9. Iowa - can go either way
10. Indiana - easy win
11. Rutgers - rebuilding year, should be a win
12. Michigan State - can go either way

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

James Franklin is a good talker and he is good into tricking kids to commit to Penn State. I am sure Penn State's class this year will be just fine. It could easily be ranked above ours. This wouldn't shock me at all.

Franklin however has not proven in anyway that he is a good game day coach at his current job or at his last job at Vandy.

Penn State's schedule this very easy compared to Rutgers. So he should have another year with inflated numbers in the win column .

1. Kent State - easy win
2. Pittsburgh - should be a win
3. Temple - rebuilding year, should be a win
4. Michigan - lost
5. Minnesota - should be win
6. Maryland - should be a win
7. Ohio State - lost
8. Purdue - easy win
9. Iowa - can go either way
10. Indiana - easy win
11. Rutgers - rebuilding year, should be a win
12. Michigan State - can go either way

It's already been discussed in another thread how PSU's and RU's schedules are essentially equal in difficulty, with PSU's being slightly more difficult in terms of metrics because Kent State presumably has at least a light pulse whereas Howard is DOA. Arguing strength of schedule between the two teams is a waste of time, as you're splitting hairs either way.

I agree that PSU should win 7-9 games against this schedule, but I have to disagree with your classification of the Pitt game. In fact, PSU is a 9-point underdog.

 

[RUChoppin]

James Franklin is a good talker and he is good into tricking kids to commit to Penn State. I am sure Penn State's class this year will be just fine. It could easily be ranked above ours. This wouldn't shock me at all.

Franklin however has not proven in anyway that he is a good game day coach at his current job or at his last job at Vandy.

Penn State's schedule this very easy compared to Rutgers. So he should have another year with inflated numbers in the win column .

1. Kent State - easy win
2. Pittsburgh - should be a win
3. Temple - rebuilding year, should be a win
4. Michigan - lost
5. Minnesota - should be win
6. Maryland - should be a win
7. Ohio State - lost
8. Purdue - easy win
9. Iowa - can go either way
10. Indiana - easy win
11. Rutgers - rebuilding year, should be a win
12. Michigan State - can go either way

Not sure why you think their schedule is so much easier than ours. We play FCS Howard vs. their Kent State. We play 7 of the same teams in conference (they share Iowa and Minnesota), though they have more at home. Their OOC also includes Pitt/Temple vs. our Washington/New Mexico... we have the toughest and weakest of those four. Illinois is a bit tougher than Purdue. The only real place you can show a stark difference is that they get to play us, and we have to play them... so to say their schedule is "very easy" based on that is a bit self deprecating.

 

[miker183]

He knew the deal when he took the job. He should certainly recognize the potential for negative recruiting. I think it's one of HIS "go to moves."
To now complain about it, makes him look weak. I can't believe he was able to put the Vandy stuff behind him.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Not sure why you think their schedule is so much easier than ours. We play FCS Howard vs. their Kent State. We play 7 of the same teams in conference (they share Iowa and Minnesota), though they have more at home. Their OOC also includes Pitt/Temple vs. our Washington/New Mexico... we have the toughest and weakest of those four. Illinois is a bit tougher than Purdue. The only real place you can show a stark difference is that they get to play us, and we have to play them... so to say their schedule is "very easy" based on that is a bit self deprecating.

It is easier. It is all relative, Franklin recruited a billion times better than Flood, so they are a more talent ed and better team than us, for now anyway. In the future that may no longer be the case. But this is about this season.

1. Washington - lost
2. Howard -easy win
3. New Mexico - should win
4. Iowa - lost
5. Ohio State - lost
6. Michigan - lost
7. Illinois - should win
8. Minnesota - toss up
9. Indiana - should win
10. Michigan State - lost
11. Penn State - lost
12. Maryland - toss up

So if Rutgers wins all the games it should win, that is only 4 wins. We do have two toss ups, but we can easily lose both games.

Meanwhile, if Penn State wins all the games it should win, they have 8 wins right there, or 7 if you think they will lose to Pitt. They also have some toss ups on top of that. They can end up with 9-10 wins. There is just no way in hell we can end up with 9-10 wins. If we end up with that many wins, then I will start a go fund me page to build a bronze statue of Chris Ash.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

It is easier.

1. Washington - lost
2. Howard -easy win
3. New Mexico - should win
4. Iowa - lost
5. Ohio State - lost
6. Michigan - lost
7. Illinois - should win
8. Minnesota - toss up
9. Indiana - should win
10. Michigan State - lost
11. Penn State - lost
12. Maryland - toss up

So if Rutgers wins all the games it should win, that is only 4 wins. We do have two toss ups, but we can easily lose both games.

Meanwhile, if Penn State wins all teh games it should win, they have 8 wins right there, or 7 if you think they will lose to Pitt. They also have some toss ups on top of that. They can end up with 9-10 wins. There is just no way in hell we can end up with 9-10 wins. If we end up with that many wins, then I will start a go fund me page to build a bronze statue of Chris Ash.

Your method has a fatal flaw in that you're assuming PSU and RU have equal talent. The schedules have about the same level of difficulty, but PSU is the better team; thus the expected win total is higher. To illustrate, here's how I'd look at RU's schedule if it was PSU's:

1. Washington - toss-up/likely loss
2. Howard -easy win
3. New Mexico - should win
4. Iowa - toss-up
5. Ohio State - lost
6. Michigan - lost
7. Illinois - should win
8. Minnesota - should win
9. Indiana - should win
10. Michigan State - toss-up
11. Penn State - lost (Rutgers - should win)
12. Maryland - should win

 

[shields]

When do we finally get Purdue? I remember reading on another board that a PSU fan did not want to see Hamilton again. Guess what, he is back for another year and hopefully Joseph is also better.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

When do we finally get Purdue? I remember reading on another board that a PSU fan did not want to see Hamilton again. Guess what, he is back for another year and hopefully Joseph is also better.

RU hosts Purdue in 2017.

 

[shields]

My question is basically because Indiana made a bowl and it was because they get Purdue and we played Nebraska last year. And yes Purdue beat Nebraska which I think was a fluke.

 

[RUChoppin]

It is easier. It is all relative.

See, this doesn't make sense.

A schedule has a certain level of difficulty, regardless of whose schedule it is. It's the only way to look at strength of schedule.

If a schedule included the teams ranked 2nd-14th in the country, it is a very difficult schedule - easily the hardest schedule in the country... it doesn't matter if the #1 team is playing that group or the #120 team is playing that group. The #1 team would be expected to have more success, but it wouldn't make the schedule itself any more or less hard. The success against the schedule measures the strength of the team playing it... not the strength of the schedule itself.

Yes, PA St is expected to do better against their schedule than we are against ours. They would be expected to do better against ours than we would against theirs, too. If we flip flopped schedules, would their old schedule suddenly become so much harder and ours so much easier? Of course not.

Strength of schedule is not relative. Expectation of success against a schedule is relative.

Take Kent State and Howard out as patsy games, and our path is a bit harder than theirs... but not dramatically so Still, they'd be expected to win 6 to 8 against those remaining 11 teams, while we'd be expected to win 3 to 5.... but that's due to where we both are as programs, not the strength of the opponents themselves.

 

[RUChoppin]

My question is basically because Indiana made a bowl and it was because they get Purdue and we played Nebraska last year. And yes Purdue beat Nebraska which I think was a fluke.

Our known future cross-division games are:
2016: Iowa, @Minnesota, Illinois
2017: @Nebraska, @Illinois, Purdue
2018: @Wisconsin, Northwestern, Illinois
2019: @Iowa, Minnesota, @Illinois

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

I see what you are saying but it doesn't change the end result which is Penn State will have a much easier time to get to 8 or even 10 wins this season than Rutgers, which I have pointed out may not even be possible.

That was my point. When you look at schedules you have to look at who is playing them as well. That must be factored into it, IMHO.

Bama's schedule might look horrific if we were playing it but it shouldn't be much of a big deal for them. So it would be a lot easier for them than it would be for us or Penn State for that matter.

One school's cupcake is another school's toss up.

I know that is not how some people look at sos but that is what I was getting at.

Hopefully that is clearer now.

 

[RUChoppin]

I see what you are saying but it doesn't change the end result which is Penn State will have a much easier time to get to 8 or even 10 wins this season than Rutgers, which I have pointed out may not even be possible.

That was my point. When you look at schedules you have to look at who is playing them as well. That must be factored into it, IMHO.

Bama's schedule might look horrific if we were playing it but it should be much of a big deal for them. So it would be a lot easier for them than it would be for us or Penn State for that matter.

One school's cupcake is another school's toss up.

In terms of "most likely to get to 8 wins", I agree with you - but that's more to do with the (perceived) quality of the team than the strength of their opponents. I'd expect Ohio State to get double digit wins with our schedule... but that doesn't make it a weaker schedule, it just means Ohio State is that much better than we are. Washington deosn't become any less of a team if they were facing Alabama in their opener instead of us... it's just that Alabama would have a much better chance of walking out with the win because of their own merits.

PA St definitely has higher expectations this year, and they should. Third year of Franklin's tenure, four very strong recruiting classes including 36 four- and five-star players, the vast majority of which were recruited by Franklin to fit his system. Fans should be expecting 8+ wins at this point, especially with getting most of their tougher conference games at home.

Our expectations are much more tempered coming off of a string of weaker recruiting classes, a complete overhaul of the entire program, and starting the season with playbook and technique changes at nearly every position on the road against our toughest OOC opponent.

So, the "definition of success" in terms of win count is clearly different for Rutgers and PA St... but it would be so if the schedules were exactly equal, too.

If "likelihood of going 12-0" is what determined strength of schedule, then the Charlotte 49ers would probably have the hardest schedule in the country and Alabama would have one of the easiest.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

In terms of "most likely to get to 8 wins", I agree with you - but that's more to do with the (perceived) quality of the team than the strength of their opponents. I'd expect Ohio State to get double digit wins with our schedule... but that doesn't make it a weaker schedule, it just means Ohio State is that much better than we are. Washington deosn't become any less of a team if they were facing Alabama in their opener instead of us... it's just that Alabama would have a much better chance of walking out with the win because of their own merits.

PA St definitely has higher expectations this year, and they should. Third year of Franklin's tenure, four very strong recruiting classes including 36 four- and five-star players, the vast majority of which were recruited by Franklin to fit his system. Fans should be expecting 8+ wins at this point, especially with getting most of their tougher conference games at home.

Our expectations are much more tempered coming off of a string of weaker recruiting classes, a complete overhaul of the entire program, and starting the season with playbook and technique changes at nearly every position on the road against our toughest OOC opponent.

So, the "definition of success" in terms of win count is clearly different for Rutgers and PA St... but it would be so if the schedules were exactly equal, too.

I Agree. So the question reminds, with 36 four- and five-star players, why is Franklin being so damn whiny? The answer is clear, he is not a good HC, just a good recruiter.

I am willing to bet that Ash would have us winning 8-10 games this year if we had 36 four- and five-star players.

 

[RUChoppin]

I Agree. So the question reminds, with 36 four- and five-star players, why is Franklin being so damn whiny? The answer is clear, he is not a good HC, just a good recruiter.

I am willing to bet that Ash would have us winning 8-10 games this year if we had 36 four- and five-star players.

On this we agree completely. May Franklin stay for many years to come.

 

[RU1977]

I also hope that Franklin stays - better for Rutgers.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

I Agree. So the question reminds, with 36 four- and five-star players, why is Franklin being so damn whiny? The answer is clear, he is not a good HC, just a good recruiter.

I am willing to bet that Ash would have us winning 8-10 games this year if we had 36 four- and five-star players.

I'll just caution that the vast majority of those highly recruited players have been freshmen and sophomores over the past two seasons. They'll be much more experienced moving forward, obviously, which is why I think most realistic PSU fans are targeting 2017 and 2018 as the years when this program can get back to really challenging for B1G titles. I think the reason optimism has to remain tempered in 2016 is because you're dealing with a rookie QB and an OL that finally has a legit two-deep but its most talented players are very young. It really cannot be overstated how much the OL play hurt PSU over the past two seasons, or how its development will impact this season. Fortunately, one of, if not the best RB rooms in the country, as well as an immensely talented collection of receivers and a scheme better designed for this team's strengths, should help that transition.

This will be an interesting season; it won't define Franklin's future in and of itself, but it will go a long way toward shaping feelings surrounding the program heading into 2017: Will the team be primed to break out, or will Franklin be coaching on a very hot seat?

 

[MADHAT1]

He did not, in fact, write a letter. The post above is the transcript of Hack's comments to the media after the bowl game. Please get a clue about what you're talking about.

Per two personnel sources on two separate teams who have shown interest in drafting Penn State’s Christian Hackenberg, the quarterback has said all the wrong things in interviews when asked to explain his declining sophomore and junior numbers (a combined 28 touchdowns and 21 interceptions). Hackenberg has shifted blame to coach James Franklin, who took over in 2014 when coach Bill O’Brien departed for the Texans. Said one evaluator: "Despite the fact that it’s probably true, you don’t want to hear a kid say that."
http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...ackenberg-james-franklin-penn-state-nfl-draft

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Per two personnel sources on two separate teams who have shown interest in drafting Penn State’s Christian Hackenberg, the quarterback has said all the wrong things in interviews when asked to explain his declining sophomore and junior numbers (a combined 28 touchdowns and 21 interceptions). Hackenberg has shifted blame to coach James Franklin, who took over in 2014 when coach Bill O’Brien departed for the Texans. Said one evaluator: "Despite the fact that it’s probably true, you don’t want to hear a kid say that."
http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...ackenberg-james-franklin-penn-state-nfl-draft

I read all the same stories. I can also link paragraphs from other stories refuting that report, as well as Hack's own comments that it never happened. Ultimately, it's not a big deal either way so I'm not sure why it's such a hot topic here three months after the fact.

 

[MADHAT1]

I read all the same stories. I can also link paragraphs from other stories refuting that report, as well as Hack's own comments that it never happened. Ultimately, it's not a big deal either way so I'm not sure why it's such a hot topic here three months after the fact.

Because you keep topic alive and come up with your own ( unnamed ) sources.
The more you ( or anyone) replies the longer that thread will last, no matter if it's an ancient subject being discussed .
So look in the mirror when asking why "it's" a hot topic.:chairshot:[roll]

 

[sherepower]

James Franklin is a good talker and he is good into tricking kids to commit to Penn State. I am sure Penn State's class this year will be just fine. It could easily be ranked above ours. This wouldn't shock me at all.

Franklin however has not proven in anyway that he is a good game day coach at his current job or at his last job at Vandy.

Penn State's schedule this very easy compared to Rutgers. So he should have another year with inflated numbers in the win column .

1. Kent State - easy win
2. Pittsburgh - should be a win
3. Temple - rebuilding year, should be a win
4. Michigan - lost
5. Minnesota - should be win
6. Maryland - should be a win
7. Ohio State - lost
8. Purdue - easy win
9. Iowa - can go either way
10. Indiana - easy win
11. Rutgers - rebuilding year, should be a win
12. Michigan State - can go either way

Ummmmmm.........Pitt is a 9 point favorite. Just sayin

 

[mikershoein]

If you feel you one-upped me, congrats; you won a war only you were fighting. I was simply relaying that staff of other sites (and no, not BWI, because I don't subject myself to that lunacy) have referenced that there is plenty of negative recruiting going on as it relates to PSU. These people cover recruiting objectively and have no allegiance to PSU. If you'd like you can put up the $10, or get a free trial, and read for yourself. I have no reason to make things up anonymously to prove points against other anonymous people I'll never actually meet. Feel free to keep getting worked up over every PSU-related comment, though.

EDITED TO ADD, I'm not sure I can trust your accusations about Franklin speaking poorly about "rival" schools, because as we all know, PSU is #unrivaled.

 

[Queztastic]

When do we finally get Purdue? I remember reading on another board that a PSU fan did not want to see Hamilton again. Guess what, he is back for another year and hopefully Joseph is also better.

I think Indiana has the only locked crossover game with Purdue.

 

[valkabit]

The only problem with that photo is PSU has no shame, so they couldn't shed a tear.