OT: Why are Hybrids so unpopular in the US?

[RUSK97]

Yes, I'm avoiding talking about the latest stomping.

So is there any particular reason why hybrids sell so poorly here in the US aside from the increased cost (which I believe should be somewhat offset by the savings in gasoline)?

I haven't had much experience driving them other than a rental Prius which Was horrendous, but then I think the overwhelming majority of Toyota models drive like crap.

I mean, why would you want to burn more gas than you have to?

 

[billorange44]

Yes, I'm avoiding talking about the latest stomping.

So is there any particular reason why hybrids sell so poorly here in the US aside from the increased cost (which I believe should be somewhat offset by the savings in gasoline)?

I haven't had much experience driving them other than a rental Prius which Was horrendous, but then I think the overwhelming majority of Toyota models drive like crap.

I mean, why would you want to burn more gas than you have to?

I would say the price. I bought my wife a little Nissan. It gets average of 44 miles to the gallon and it only cost $18,000. Nice little car too.

 

[RU205]

Gas is $2 a gallon.

 

[RUSK97]

Gas is $2 a gallon.

Yeah, I hear that a lot. But don't people realize gas prices will only stay down so long? There's a limited amount of dino-juice. Not to mention that burning less gas = doing less harm to the environment?

 

[Caliknight]

Probably because people don't want to ruin the environment. Those batteries are a disaster.

 

[brgRC90]

I rented a diesel Ford Mondeo in Europe for two weeks and it was far better on gas mileage than I could've imagined. It also did what all of the cars seem to do over there and never do here: it went into a partial shut down mode at a full stop and then started up again when you stepped on the gas, which no doubt was one of the reason it was so fuel efficient. The car offerings in this country are not good.

 

[RUBand]

Probably because people don't want to ruin the environment. Those batteries are a disaster.

Bigger carbon footprint than a gas guzzler

 

[RUBand]

I rented a diesel Ford Mondeo in Europe for two weeks and it was far better on gas mileage than I could've imagined. It also did what all of the cars seem to do over there and never do here: it went into a partial shut down mode at a full stop and then started up again when you stepped on the gas, which no doubt was one of the reason it was so fuel efficient. The car offerings in this country are not good.

Regulations?

 

[PSU_Nut]

I rented a diesel Ford Mondeo in Europe for two weeks and it was far better on gas mileage than I could've imagined. It also did what all of the cars seem to do over there and never do here: it went into a partial shut down mode at a full stop and then started up again when you stepped on the gas, which no doubt was one of the reason it was so fuel efficient. The car offerings in this country are not good.

Drove a chevy Malibu rental with that feature. Was so annoying because it was rough. It was not a smooth shutdown or start up at all.

The difference in the Us is first the gas prices are so much cheaper here then in Europe. Second body the driving habits are so much different. A hybrid doesn't give you much savings at all on the highway which Americans do so much more driving. In Europe where the people commute shorter and more stop and go there not savings. Also Americans tend to take road trips more. Where Europeans rely on public transportation far more. There for they don't feel the need to have a big vehicle to load up and drive 12 hrs for vacation.

 

[RUMcMahon]

I rented a diesel Ford Mondeo in Europe for two weeks and it was far better on gas mileage than I could've imagined. It also did what all of the cars seem to do over there and never do here: it went into a partial shut down mode at a full stop and then started up again when you stepped on the gas, which no doubt was one of the reason it was so fuel efficient. The car offerings in this country are not good.

BMW has had this for a few years , efficient dynamics . I personally turn it off because I don't care for the start /stop.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Well, because Americans tend to like, uhm, prettier things?

 

[zwicker]

Yes, I'm avoiding talking about the latest stomping.

So is there any particular reason why hybrids sell so poorly here in the US aside from the increased cost (which I believe should be somewhat offset by the savings in gasoline)?

I haven't had much experience driving them other than a rental Prius which Was horrendous, but then I think the overwhelming majority of Toyota models drive like crap.

I mean, why would you want to burn more gas than you have to?

The cost of gas came down which cuts the savings in gas. Probably no savings at all.

 

[oldtimer67]

I didn't realize hybrids sold so poorly. Have been driving one for 9 years. Lexus RX450h. My wife and daughter now have one, too. Lexus says it has more than a million hybrids on the road. Interesting that you think the Toyota hybrids are bad. Lexus is a subsidiary of Toyota and the Lexus hybrids are great.

As far as Europe goes, I make 1 to 3 trips a year and it seems my rentals are always diesels. Diesels are very common in Europe and were becoming more common here until the VW scandal.

 

[RU205]

Yeah, I hear that a lot. But don't people realize gas prices will only stay down so long? There's a limited amount of dino-juice. Not to mention that burning less gas = doing less harm to the environment?

Many people make decisions that will help them today. A lot a people live pay check to pay check and they are not trying to weigh pros and cons of potential gas price increases in the future.

Maybe in the future when gas prices go up high enough to switch over the technology will will improve in electric to drop the price of those cars significantly.

 

[RUSK97]

Well, because Americans tend to like, uhm, prettier things?

This is absolutely terrible but I can't stop laughing!

 

[RUSK97]

I didn't realize hybrids sold so poorly...Interesting that you think the Toyota hybrids are bad.

Hybrids other than Priuses sell horribly and the low gas prices have made sales even worse....I don't think Toyota hybrids are bad at all. On the contrary, I think they are the lead innovators in that arena. I just think they drive poorly. No road feel, no steering feedback. That said, more Americans prefer that.

 

[Nitwit]

I rented a diesel Ford Mondeo in Europe for two weeks and it was far better on gas mileage than I could've imagined. It also did what all of the cars seem to do over there and never do here: it went into a partial shut down mode at a full stop and then started up again when you stepped on the gas, which no doubt was one of the reason it was so fuel efficient. The car offerings in this country are not good.

Gas cars here do the shut off at stop now. Also my Accura goes from 6 cylinders to 3 when maintaining speed during highway cruising. You don't even notice it except at the pump. I still think it's a matter of trust. People don't understand hybrid technology and fear big repair bills when the batteries go.

 

[RUSK97]

Probably because people don't want to ruin the environment. Those batteries are a disaster.

Whether or not those batteries really are a disaster I don't know, but somehow I doubt the reason Americans aren't buying hybrids is to save the environment. When someone mentions 'recycling' most of us think it's about getting a second wear out of our underwear.

 

[retired711]

I've had a Generation III prius since 2009. I like the car, but I had a Camry before; so I'm the kind of guy who regards a car simply as an appliance, unlike many people. The car gets me where I want to go, has low maintenance expenses (I'm at 85,000 miles and haven't done a major repair yet), and I like the gas mileage (about 50 mph in highway driving except when the weather is cold.) I can understand why they haven't seized the market place. Gasoline prices are low and show no signs of going up much, and there is not enough of a variety of hybrid vehicles. Auto manfacturers must reach a 55 mile per gallon target for pooled sales, and that may bring about more development of hybrids, even if the Trump Administration weakens the target.

 

[RUMcMahon]

Well, because Americans tend to like, uhm, prettier things?

Ivanka - :fire::fire:

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Yeah, I hear that a lot. But don't people realize gas prices will only stay down so long? There's a limited amount of dino-juice. Not to mention that burning less gas = doing less harm to the environment?

There is currently more oil in known reserve than has been extracted in history.

In the words of Warner Wolf, if you had peak oil and anytime before 2100, you were wrong

 

[ashokan]

They are too quiet in urban area. Kids, seniors, bikers and others don't hear them. You have to almost get hit by one to realize how stealthy they are

To quiet' electric and hybrid cars create headache for US regulators

US regulators are grappling with new rules for electric and hybrid cars that are too quiet, leading to fears of collisions with cyclists and sight-impaired pedestrians unless the vehicles are fitted with artificial noise-making systems.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates the odds of a hybrid vehicle being involved in a pedestrian crash are 19% higher compared with a gasoline-powered vehicle.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...hybrid-cars-create-headache-for-us-regulators

 

[RC1978]

Regulations?

Our BMW does the same. When brought to a full stop the engine turns off, take your foot off the brake and the engine starts.

 

[Scarlet4Shore]

I have a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid and love it. It suits my needs because I do mostly city driving (hence the better gas mileage). I have never had a problem with the battery. It had an 8 year warranty. When I was considering a hybrid, I did my research. The consensus was the entire battery rarely quit -- it was usually one cell, and that one cell could be replaced. I can go 500 miles on a tank of gas (about a 13+gal tank). It's nice to gas up once a month no matter what the cost of gas is.

 

[oldtimer67]

They are too quiet in urban area. Kids, seniors, bikers and others don't hear them. You have to almost get hit by one to realize how stealthy they are

To quiet' electric and hybrid cars create headache for US regulators

US regulators are grappling with new rules for electric and hybrid cars that are too quiet, leading to fears of collisions with cyclists and sight-impaired pedestrians unless the vehicles are fitted with artificial noise-making systems.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates the odds of a hybrid vehicle being involved in a pedestrian crash are 19% higher compared with a gasoline-powered vehicle.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...hybrid-cars-create-headache-for-us-regulators

my hybrid has a "noise maker" that produces a sound at low speed that pedestrians can hear.

 

[RUBeta]

@AreYouNUTS enough with that crap man. The election is over - and why objectify those women?

Back to the topic, will be interesting when Tesla releases their moderately priced Model 3 - a hybrid that rides like a premium car. That could be the catalyst that pushes electric cars more mainstream.

 

[RUSK97]

Back to the topic, will be interesting when Tesla releases their moderately priced Model 3 - a hybrid that rides like a premium car. That could be the catalyst that pushes electric cars more mainstream.

Interesting indeed, but the 3 is all-electric rather than hybrid dino-electric. It takes a whole 'nother level of faith that you're not going to find a charging station vs the gas stations that are already omnipresent.

 

[RU4Real]

My car goes from 0 - 60 in under 5 seconds. An auto-stop system would pretty much wreck that - ask any BMW owner.

It also gets 31 mpg at 100 mph.

I'm good with all that.

As for hybrids in general, some of the best performing sports cars on the market are hybrids. Aside from the horrific environmental impact of large-scale Li Ion battery production, there's nothing inherently *wrong* with hybrids. As a performance enthusiast I believe that hybrids have gotten a bad rep in the market because the more popular examples are such horribly executed cars. In other words, a Prius doesn't "suck", per se, because it's a hybrid. It sucks because it's a Prius.

Toyota has the world's greatest reputation for building cars that are completely unengaging. They're reliable as all get-out, and so are perfect for people who, like @camdenlawprof, treat cars as "appliances". But they've cornered - and saturated - that market. They're not going to get any penetration into a larger share of the market, particularly among enthusiasts, simply because the car they're trying to sell is a hybrid.

 

[RUBlueLot]

I have my deposit for the model 3 already paid.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

Racism.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

In hybrid moments
Give me a moment

 

[retired711]

My car goes from 0 - 60 in under 5 seconds. An auto-stop system would pretty much wreck that - ask any BMW owner.

It also gets 31 mpg at 100 mph.

I'm good with all that.

As for hybrids in general, some of the best performing sports cars on the market are hybrids. Aside from the horrific environmental impact of large-scale Li Ion battery production, there's nothing inherently *wrong* with hybrids. As a performance enthusiast I believe that hybrids have gotten a bad rep in the market because the more popular examples are such horribly executed cars. In other words, a Prius doesn't "suck", per se, because it's a hybrid. It sucks because it's a Prius.

Toyota has the world's greatest reputation for building cars that are completely unengaging. They're reliable as all get-out, and so are perfect for people who, like @camdenlawprof, treat cars as "appliances". But they've cornered - and saturated - that market. They're not going to get any penetration into a larger share of the market, particularly among enthusiasts, simply because the car they're trying to sell is a hybrid.

There is a Prius chatboard that I visit from time to time. There are actually three main sets of consumers who like Priuses: (a) tech nuts (the car has lots of bells and whistles) -- this is the biggest group; (b) mileage nuts; and (c) envo nuts (people who like making as small a contribution as possible to global warming and air pollution generally. I am an "appliance" type but not a pure one.

 

[ManasquanMike]

Going to ask a dumb question. If we were to switch over to mostly hybrid cars that needed charging, do we have the infrastructure to do so? Would we (& how) be able to generate enough electricity without negating the positives of hybrid technology?
Not flaming it's what always comes to mind with this particular topic.

Also, a few years back (before divorce) the ex & I were researching a Lexus SUV hybrid. The initial cost, potential repair & higher insurance seemed to equivocate purchasing a gasoline powered SUV.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

I would think that the a and c guys were not happy with last Tuesday's outcome.

 

[RUBand]

There is a Prius chatboard that I visit from time to time. There are actually three main sets of consumers who like Priuses: (a) tech nuts (the car has lots of bells and whistles) -- this is the biggest group; (b) mileage nuts; and (c) envo nuts (people who like making as small a contribution as possible to global warming and air pollution generally. I am an "appliance" type but not a pure one.

How safe are hybrids? Are there any long term magnetic charge concern?

 

[retired711]

How safe are hybrids? Are there any long term magnetic charge concern?

I've never heard of any.concern about that.

 

[retired711]

Going to ask a dumb question. If we were to switch over to mostly hybrid cars that needed charging, do we have the infrastructure to do so? Would we (& how) be able to generate enough electricity without negating the positives of hybrid technology?
Not flaming it's what always comes to mind with this particular topic.

Also, a few years back (before divorce) the ex & I were researching a Lexus SUV hybrid. The initial cost, potential repair & higher insurance seemed to equivocate purchasing a gasoline powered SUV.

America has a lot of electricity capacity. What is happening now is that dirtier, coal-fired power plants are being replaced by cleaner natural gas and by even cleaner wind and solar energy. This is happening only partly because of environmental regulation; the market place is also forcing the transition because natural gas is much cheaper than coal on an equivalent basis, and the price of renewables is coming down sharply. So the electricity needed for plug-ins will increasingly come from clean sources. Of course, most hybrids are not plug-ins yet, but instead rely on a gasoline-burning engine charging a battery.

I don't know specifically about the hybrid SUVs, but I really don't hear stories about the battery failing.

 

[megadrone]

It's probably the price of gas -- at one point I think I read that the price of gas needed to be $4/gallon for the increase costs of a hybrid to be worthwhile. I doubt it's that high but at the lower prices we've seen the last couple of years, no need for a hybrid.

 

[RUthless]

The reason I hate them is because most of the owners are phony. Research says more then 80% of buyers say the fact that the car looks odd or different than regular cars is important - meaning I want people to know that I'm driving such a car. Show offs. Why would you want an ugly car, with less safety due to their smaller size and chance of fire just so people think you save the environment? Wasting money is another thing - You can buy a Chevy that gets 45mph for 19k but you would spend 40 on a Volt? Its idiotic and a waste! F those cars! I drive Porsche's with 5 and 6 speeds...

 

[ElmiraExpress]

My car goes from 0 - 60 in under 5 seconds. An auto-stop system would pretty much wreck that - ask any BMW owner.

It also gets 31 mpg at 100 mph.

I'm good with all that.

As for hybrids in general, some of the best performing sports cars on the market are hybrids. Aside from the horrific environmental impact of large-scale Li Ion battery production, there's nothing inherently *wrong* with hybrids. As a performance enthusiast I believe that hybrids have gotten a bad rep in the market because the more popular examples are such horribly executed cars. In other words, a Prius doesn't "suck", per se, because it's a hybrid. It sucks because it's a Prius.

Toyota has the world's greatest reputation for building cars that are completely unengaging. They're reliable as all get-out, and so are perfect for people who, like @camdenlawprof, treat cars as "appliances". But they've cornered - and saturated - that market. They're not going to get any penetration into a larger share of the market, particularly among enthusiasts, simply because the car they're trying to sell is a hybrid.

How is it possible to know your mpg at 100 mph ??