RU4Real is a nut who considers 100mph 'putting around on a Sunday'. He just checks his Audi's computer because that's his average speed including time spent at stoplights.
OT: Why are Hybrids so unpopular in the US?
- Thread starter RUSK97
- Start date
If you own a prius, you are most certainly a douche bag. They are the ugliest cars on the planet. You have to be douche bag to buy one, carbon footprint be damned. They were designed that way to discourage any normal human from buying one.
If you disagree with me, drive behind one for 5+ miles, then let me know....
If you disagree with me, drive behind one for 5+ miles, then let me know....
Prius, Ford C-Max, soon to be defunct Honda CRZ. These are the only exclusively hybrid cars. The rest of them you can barely tell them apart from their gas-powered brethren, unless you look for the little hybrid badge. How the heck are these people showing-off?
LOL. I used to joke with my son that a Prius came from the factory with an Obama sticker on it.
I work with a company that does, among other things, power engineering studies. Recently, they were asked to perform a study for a California electric utility company. The study focused on the impact of electric vehicles on the current power grid. They studied several suburban areas. In every one of those areas, the current grid would fail with a 50% EV adoption rate. Specifically the failures occurred overnight when everyone is charging their vehicles. The good news is that we are unlikely to see a 50% EV adoption rate for some time and the grid will be upgraded gradually in anticipation. However, today's power grid is woefully unprepared for electric vehicles.
IMO hybrid is the near future with electric cars being the future.
The advantage of hybrids are the greater fuel efficiency without relying on setting up an electric charging station at home. Too many Americans live in rentals, garden apartments, high rises, and other places without the ability to install an electric charging station.
Plus it uses the traditional fuel engine that is already mass produced. For many performance cars hybrid is already used (ie. Acura NSX)
http://www.autobytel.com/top-10-cars/high-horsepower-cars/hybrid-cars/
Within 10-15 years I can see almost all cars going to some kind of hybrid technology to meet fuel standards while also showing good horsepower / torque. Right now the Lexus NX hyrbid (small SUV) gets 194 horsepower and about 30 miles per gallon. With the next generation can Lexus improve by 10-20% to get to 225 hp and 36 mpg? At the same time would a Camry hybrid have the same engine for similar performance?
The future in my mind is electric cars (ie. Teslas). Once the infrastructure is built out and the batteries become capable of 400+ miles they will be the norm. Electric can be cheaper than oil and produced by various means (ie. wind, solar, water, nuclear, etc..). The oil industry needs to adopt this and add charging stations to gas stations. You may also see many shopping plazas install them. If it takes 20 mins to replenish an e car why shouldn't a supermarket, bookstore, or coffee shop install them in their parking lot to bring customers in who have 20 mins to kill. For the e cars I think it may take 20-25 years and probably will be spurred by gas prices spiking again.
The advantage of hybrids are the greater fuel efficiency without relying on setting up an electric charging station at home. Too many Americans live in rentals, garden apartments, high rises, and other places without the ability to install an electric charging station.
Plus it uses the traditional fuel engine that is already mass produced. For many performance cars hybrid is already used (ie. Acura NSX)
http://www.autobytel.com/top-10-cars/high-horsepower-cars/hybrid-cars/
Within 10-15 years I can see almost all cars going to some kind of hybrid technology to meet fuel standards while also showing good horsepower / torque. Right now the Lexus NX hyrbid (small SUV) gets 194 horsepower and about 30 miles per gallon. With the next generation can Lexus improve by 10-20% to get to 225 hp and 36 mpg? At the same time would a Camry hybrid have the same engine for similar performance?
The future in my mind is electric cars (ie. Teslas). Once the infrastructure is built out and the batteries become capable of 400+ miles they will be the norm. Electric can be cheaper than oil and produced by various means (ie. wind, solar, water, nuclear, etc..). The oil industry needs to adopt this and add charging stations to gas stations. You may also see many shopping plazas install them. If it takes 20 mins to replenish an e car why shouldn't a supermarket, bookstore, or coffee shop install them in their parking lot to bring customers in who have 20 mins to kill. For the e cars I think it may take 20-25 years and probably will be spurred by gas prices spiking again.
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Hybrids like the Prius are not "electric" cars. They generate their own electricity to charge their own batteries. There's never any need to plug them in for charging.
Cool, man. I have 48 solar panels on my roof, and we generate more than we use (and sell the unused stuff back to the power company). I'm not off the grid, we still rely on the grid when there's no sunlight, but halfway there I guess. No electric bills, at least.
There probably is more oil bubbling up from the bottom of the oceans of the world than we extract daily.
by the time he needs a new roof he may be able to ge the Tesla roof shingles
https://www.tesla.com/solar
Yeah, there's still tons of it left. Remember the days when people were saying stuff like "We only have enough oil left for 20 years at most!"
I'm an advocate of developing renewables, but there's so much oil and coal that we shouldn't turn our backs on them...
Sorry for derailing the thread.
We had a new roof put on, rated for a lot of years, just before the panels went up. So it's not going to be my problem. But it's a legit question. The entire array will have to be removed and then re-installed. Probably a few thousand bucks extra cost there.
My Audi Q5 has that feature. It is actually not so much for fuel saving but more for emissions. When engines run cold, especially diesel engines, they have high emissions, particularly NOx. Unfortunately, because of the VW/Audi diesel debacle, diesel seems more dead in the US than ever before. The diesel engine has many benefits over gasoline--higher fuel efficiency, lower emissions, better torque and power. Unfortunately, many in the US view diesels as having higher emissions, which is not the case. My Q5 TDI averages 31 mpg in mixed driving compared to the 22 mpg I got with the same car in a gasoline version. But the premium price for the diesel engine is high, somewhat similar to the hybrid.
Are they unpopular? I see quite a few around here. Not unusual to see a 100 thousand plus mile Prius.
I wouldn't say they are unpopular, personally. What they are is polarizing. The same can be said for my solar panels.
I have no idea how alternative energy became such a popular political litmus test, but it has.
When I tell some people about my solar panels, their hackles go up and they get defensive and sometimes nasty. It's a strange knee-jerk reaction, and I've gotten so I can predict who will be that way. Same thing for the Prius, I think (although I don' t have one, but I still see the same pattern)...
tl;dnr -- Why is renewable energy = "liberal" and gas/oil = "conservative" ?
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I mostly hate the hybrids that are out there. But there are a few I wouldn't mind owning. Here's one:
Looking at the Camry and hybrid version (assume gas is $2.25 a gallon and prices are for base models MSRP):
Hybrid priced at $26790 and gets 40 mpg 5.6 cents a mile
Regular priced at $23070 and gets 30 mpg 7.5 cents a mile
The price difference is $3720 which would take 195,789 miles to break even.
For a avg driver who puts on 15k miles a year it would take 13 years to break even.
if gas goes to $3.00 a gallon:
Hybrid is 7.5 cents a mile
Regular is 10 cents a mile
The break even would be after 148,800 miles which is about 10 years at 15k miles a year
Hybrid priced at $26790 and gets 40 mpg 5.6 cents a mile
Regular priced at $23070 and gets 30 mpg 7.5 cents a mile
The price difference is $3720 which would take 195,789 miles to break even.
For a avg driver who puts on 15k miles a year it would take 13 years to break even.
if gas goes to $3.00 a gallon:
Hybrid is 7.5 cents a mile
Regular is 10 cents a mile
The break even would be after 148,800 miles which is about 10 years at 15k miles a year
Yeah, that's about what I found, although I didn't do the math as thoroughly as you. My conventional car gets 38-40 mph and costs half what a Prius costs (I paid 13K for my Toyota Yaris). It just didn't make sense to me.
I had an Audi A4 before the Yaris, and realized that for me, the driving experience isn't important. I'm just as happy in the little economy car. Some of you are more sophisticated and can appreciate fine driving, so you have a completely different perspective from mine, I suppose.
@RUBeta - relax, it's funny, sorry if you don't have a sense of humor. "Objectify"? They're women who are in the limelight, every day of their lives, it's okay to say that one is prettier than the other! [cheers]
This is a very good point. It's weird how polarizing it's become and how people on both sides abandon or adjust longstanding positions to support or oppose renewable energy, EVs, etc.
That said, hybrids make up about 2 - 3 percent of the US auto market, averaging a little over 400,000/ sales per year over the past few years. I'd say low penetration is some mix of cost, light hybrids not being all that impressive in fuel economy, higher fuel economy hybrids being dominated by small cars that don't meet everyone's needs, and many buyers not even considering anything with the word "hybrid" on it. Remember this is a market where the best-selling vehicle is a pickup truck, and people fell in love (and are falling in love all over again) with huge 4x4 SUVs they had no particular need for. The Ford F-Series basically doubles hybrid sales on its own. Fuel economy has become one buying consideration, but it clearly isn't first priority for much of the market.
For a while, I was waiting to see automakers offer different powertrains - gas, hybrid, electric, etc. - for each individual model, but not sure that'll ever happen. It's happened with a few models, the new EPA champ Hyundai Ioniq being one good example, but doesn't seem to be happening quick enough to compete with the pace of other technologies (better EV batteries, fuel cells, etc).
It took me a few days to realize the engine cutting out at stops was a designed economizer mode. Another thing you notice about petrol stations is the filling areas are black with diesel residue. Love the mileage you can get when driving diesels, especially when you pay those high fuel prices.
Just get a diesel and modify it to run on cooking oil. A buddy of mine did this to his Mercedes diesel. Dude gets his "fuel" from the used oil from a sushi joint.
Maybe when I retire. Collecting used cooking oil and filtering it is a lot of work.
They're unsafe. Yes, you can save on gas, but a better idea is to have energy policies that make gas cheap. I don't want my family driving around a NJ highway in a clown car.
I was amazed to notice that in Europe they don't have what California and New Jersey and maybe some other places have had for decades: nozzles that are designed to keep fumes from escaping while cars are filling up. That probably leads to the black residue and it certainly allows a lot of hydrocarbons to go into the air before ever reaching the tank.
I have a 2007 Camry Hybrid, which I bought in December 2006. At the time, I received a $2300 tax credit, which puts a nice dent in the math you did. Mine did not come with all of the possible bells and whistles, but cost a few thousand dollars more than your figure.
1) The people who would benefit most from hybrids are lower income people who can't afford to purchase new cars/hybrids.
2) Right now gas prices are $2.25 give or take. FU Chrste and the gas tax but still prices are relatively low. Heard before that the demand for hybrids soars as gas prices increases. When gas prices are high I've heard of months and months of waits for hybrid.
At $2.25 most aren't going to save any money-at least short term.
3) A lot of people with kids like and "need" larger vehicles.
4) Too a lesser extent image. Some like sports cars and those with small manhood like big trucks or vans.
5) I would also say there are many cars that get decent mileage for those who caqn't afford hybrids or are environmental conscous. Toyota Corollas always seem to get gas mileage (was my first car and until is got hit at 190,000 the car ran great. broke down at 210,000 and couldn't afford to repair so it sat until there would have been too many problems. Sold in 2014 to pay for my football seat donation.
2) Right now gas prices are $2.25 give or take. FU Chrste and the gas tax but still prices are relatively low. Heard before that the demand for hybrids soars as gas prices increases. When gas prices are high I've heard of months and months of waits for hybrid.
At $2.25 most aren't going to save any money-at least short term.
3) A lot of people with kids like and "need" larger vehicles.
4) Too a lesser extent image. Some like sports cars and those with small manhood like big trucks or vans.
5) I would also say there are many cars that get decent mileage for those who caqn't afford hybrids or are environmental conscous. Toyota Corollas always seem to get gas mileage (was my first car and until is got hit at 190,000 the car ran great. broke down at 210,000 and couldn't afford to repair so it sat until there would have been too many problems. Sold in 2014 to pay for my football seat donation.
Hybrids make a lot more sense for trucks, SUV, Vans, and crossovers with current gas prices.IMHO.
Plug ins are the future however.
Plug ins are the future however.
Those are all different things with different use cases.
Hybrid solutions are strongly recommended for predominantly local use vehicles and the larger ones (SUVs & crossovers) benefit more because the weight of the battery pack is a smaller percentage of their overall mass.
"Trucks" are a different story. Local delivery trucks, yes. Long-haul, not so much. The hybrid advantage goes to zero as travel distance increases because the systems use engine braking to recharge the batteries.
The optimal technology for long-haul, heavy vehicles (trucks and buses) is electric drive with turbine range extenders.
I agree. If a particular SUV averages 25 mpg with a conventional engine, the hybrid version may be able to get it over 30 mpg. Since families like to use SUVs for the road trips, driving vacations, and such the gas mileage increase can help. A family of 2 adults and 2 high school aged kids is not likely to take a Prius for a 1 week family vacation that they drive to when they have a Honda Pilot or Nissan Pathfinder (both are 27 mph highway) also.
