Miami definitely not
Can’t stand ‘em, but they’re valueable
Pitt / Duke debateable
BC/Wake are done
Pac12 dissolution discussion
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Can’t stand ‘em, but they’re valueable
Pitt / Duke debateable
BC/Wake are done
Pitt and Miami might look towards the BIG 12 as a landing spot.
Pitt ,Cinci and WV make a good paring and brings in two new states for B-12 TV rights negotiating
UCF and Miami might be a good B-12 rivalry , but don't know if adding Miami
helps the Vitamin conference increase TV rights payment
I've said it a couple of times now, and so I really should stop, but the problem for schools like NC is that they have nowhere to go if we accept your assumption that neither the B1G nor the SEC will want to expand. So they have little leverage. More likely, the SEC would indeed expand to take more schools.
I thought that was going to happen this year and it didn't. The question is whether Washington, Oregon, Cal and Stanford would bring in enough revenue to the B1G so that the per-school payout would stay the same or increase. Apparently the B1G thinks the answer is "no" at least right now. We'll see if that changes. We'll also see if the B1G can get Notre Dame to join, and whether Notre Dame would see bringing in Pacific Coast schools as good for it. (I think the answer is "no" -- that the Stanford rivalry isn't that big a deal for Notre Dame, but who knows.)
right
none of them bring anything to increase the tv negotiations nor do they have enough of a fanbase outside of regional limitations.
Even UVA, people talk about UVA like it's a given but they are not
I say UVA and UNC just to keep together....
But don't see what more east Coast teams would bring.
I would do Florida St and Georgia Tech for Recruiting even though the it might add to everyone's take.
Reason why i think Oregon and Washington is to try and get the 4th Window. If no 4th window, then not sure what more West Coast teams bring either...
I think that would be a really small tail wagging a really big dog. Stanford might be a factor, but only a small one.
Wayyyyyy too many teams. Why should current B1G or SEC schools accept shrinking pieces of their revenue pie?
If this happens so be it. I’ve also thought about this and could see this as a decent possibility. Of course if something like this ever happened (all the national brands forming their own league), RU would definitely be left outside which is sad slightly but also OK with me. While all the other sports have been more fun, Football life in the Big Ten hasn’t been great. If Saturdays turned back into playing UConn, Boston College, West Virginia, Va Tech, Army and Navy etc. and we ended up winning more than 2-3 home games a year, I’d probably still be happy and maybe even happier
to your eyes, not to ND.
ND bills itself as an elite institution who has a national brand. USC, Navy, Stanford and 1 NY area often is a must for them due to various affiliations, marketing, branding, scope of athletics/academics
BIG already knows it has to get Stanford before ND. ND will not let their schedule be dictated to them by conferences shutting off their traditional rivals. Navy is no go obviously
In regard to UNC being one of the noisy schools, I am a firm believer that actions speak louder than words. My comments and predictions have to do with their future actions, not their words.
I put nothing past them
From ruining the ACC, to fake classes + fake degrees… nothing they say or do would surprise me in the least
Yes, Notre Dame wants to retain a national brand. That's why it hasn't joined a conference. Notre Dame thinks its brand allows it to make more money as an independent than it would as a conference member. But would having Stanford be that important for Notre Dame in making its decision? I'm not convinced.
I agree with you about ND. If you listen to their alums, Stanford, USC, and even Navy are viewed as opponents. No more, no less. Just plug in someone else, they are all the same to ND.
Independence is in their DNA and how they identify. I believe if they can remain within about $20 million of the Big 10/SEC, they will remain independent. As long as they have a path to the CFP, they will stay independent.
Personally, I don't see ND being worth it. Too high maintenance and I believe a cancer. They helped kill the Big East and they are now in the process of killing the ACC.
well as I said last go round, ND alum who contribute big dollars say otherwise. They want the independence but understand that at some point, that is going to come to an end by scheduling. At some point, scheduling will hurt them either by not being able to play marquee opponents or by having a record that forces inclusion. Time is not on ND side
also the 'opponents' comment is definitely off as ND views them as their tier; big difference
I frequently bring this up. They reflexively bring up UVA to the Big10 like programmed robots. I ask what value do they add that would move the needle for the BigTen and warrant an invite. I don't get much other than they have a nice campus blah. blah. They're mediocre at best in FB and are in the 177th media market. NC might make a little sense. Maybe they still think the conference has to be contiguous.
UVA Is a no brainer
Top 5 public institution in a rapidly growing state whose mission and ideals match up w/the B1G, steeped in tradition and excellence
Athletic program strong in lax, bball, baseball. FB mediocre for 30 years, which is fine as you can't have every team be OSU/Michigan level - need a couple of bottom dwellers willing to accept ass kicking's (sound familar?), but excel in other aforementioned sports
Athletcis wise, they're essentially UNC-lite (and only saying that due to the success of UNC bball), although they actually have morals and standards
Between them and UNC, you couldn't find two more perfect fits for the B1G
As long as we are still B1G in basketball and the other Olympic sports as well as academically, that may not be that bad of an outcome. There is FAR more to B1G life than football, and that's what the average fan does not see. Academically our degrees are worth more rubbing elbows with schools like Michigan and Wisconsin and Northwestern and USC than they are with a bunch of Catholic schools we have nothing in common with or directional Florida schools and Temple like we were in the BE or AAC days.
A couple of points:
1) If past history is any indication. You won’t know or hear of any BIG or SEC expansion until it is a done deal.It could be in the works right now but could take years to implement.
2)Does anyone really know the end game for these conferences? or are they figuring it out as they go?
3) Knowing all the benefits the BIG brings conference members. At what point do ND Alums realize the disservice the ND administration is doing to the school by not joining. No doubt football has put ND on the map, but wouldn’t they be a better school overall as a BIG member?
3) Right now we have the BIG the SEC and everyone else. If you were running those three also ran conferences. Wouldn’t you look outside the box with some kind of alliance to help all 38 schools generate more revenue to at least keep it close.
1) If past history is any indication. You won’t know or hear of any BIG or SEC expansion until it is a done deal.It could be in the works right now but could take years to implement.
2)Does anyone really know the end game for these conferences? or are they figuring it out as they go?
3) Knowing all the benefits the BIG brings conference members. At what point do ND Alums realize the disservice the ND administration is doing to the school by not joining. No doubt football has put ND on the map, but wouldn’t they be a better school overall as a BIG member?
3) Right now we have the BIG the SEC and everyone else. If you were running those three also ran conferences. Wouldn’t you look outside the box with some kind of alliance to help all 38 schools generate more revenue to at least keep it close.
1. There has never been the type of revenue discrepancy as there is now / will soon be. Hence, secrecy was more palatable as the perceived motivation (money) wasn't out in the open / big amounts like it is now
2. Fans don't. Networks and the Big 2 conferences I'm sure have a keen idea of what's coming
3. Million dollar question. They'll eventually join the B1G. When is the key
4. No, b/c there's too many bottom dwellers. If you're FSU/UNC/Clemson, you're supporting Wake, Cuse and BC (amongst others). Texas and OU were supporting KU, Iowa State, etc. while UCLA/USC (and now UO / UW) are supporting WASU (and others if expansion rumors are true)
If UNC joins the Big Ten (big if), then maybe it would make sense for the Big Ten to also take Virginia, a traditional rival.
Interesting angle are the schools w options for 2 conferences vs the schools with only 1
SEC or B1G makes sense for UVA/UNC/FSU. Clemson is SEC only.
Traditionally I can only see uva and unc to the B1G and fsu to the sec, but tradition had gone out the window in favor of $$
Yeah. B1G/SEC keeps things under wraps until the deals are completed. USC/UCLA acquisitions were all but completed within 24 hours of announcement that they'd be moving to the B1G. RU/MD were maybe 48 hours from announcement to completion.
Woah … Jack Torrance’s manuscript in “The Shining” was only a bit longer than this sentence. 😂
Good one B-12 the Vitamin Conference 👍
PS - all in good fun, I appreciate your insight.
That is a narrow East Coast view, and to an extent a recent view. Yes, the PAC12 is now down, but it has a long history. PAC12 at its core has been around since 1915. In the 1970s they were the basketball and football powers. Of course that all changed. At one time the Southwest Conference was a tradition and things changed. The Big12 was thought to be tradition and things changed. Change happens and will continue to happen.
As much as I would love to see Cal in the B1G I agree that right now it's a long shot. They have some rebuilding to do in the revenue sports and I'm not convinced Knowlton is a competent AD for that job.
"some rebuilding to do?" That's kind -- the men's basketball team went 3-29. And Knowlton has a long-term deal; he's not going anywhere.
Despite what I have posted in this thread, my thoughts on the ACC have completely evolved. Here are some facts for you to consider:
- ESPN created this mess when they got the ACC to agree to the college sports worst contract.
- ESPN has the most to lose if the ACC breaks up.
- ESPN has the only solution to the current mess.
- ESPN has almost complete control of what happens. Don't believe this? ESPN has an equally controlling contract with the SEC. They can tell the SEC they will not pay more money for the addition of any ACC schools. That still leaves the B1G as an option for SOME ACC schools, but not enough to cause a breakup or break the GOR.
- ESPN considers the ACC and its historic basketball rivalries very important.
- ESPN does not want to lose any of its "properties" to the B1G.
- ESPN will determine the outcome of this mess. What will it do? There seem to be two major options.
- ESPN will continue to do nothing, knowing that it is locked in legally to continue to profit from the current situation, or,
- ESPN will unilaterally (no negotiations) increase the total payout to the ACC by just enough to eliminate all but a few of the dissidents, thus eliminating any threat to its property. FSU (way overrated in value nationally), Miami (see FSU), and Clemson (a fading regional property) can complain all they want but have nowhere to go and no way to get there.
I'll bite:
1. Yes
2. No - The Acc has the most to lose
3. Big part of the solution but not the final say. ND status, Pac cable deal, and/or getting 8 schools to break away voiding GOR also could play a role
4. No, as it's unlikely you'll get 8 schools to the B1G/SEC (could happen, but more likely you'll see Pac/B12 absorb some)
5. Yes
6. Yes, but if a deal can be struck with Fox, then they'll do it
7. Somewhat, see point 3
8. Possibly (see point 3), but from what I've been told, they won't stand around and let the conference go to shit
9. What's their incentive to do that? If it did happen, you'd see teams stay pat for the foreseeable future, but still leave well before 2036. ACC is a mess and schools want out
FSU overrated value nationally simply false. Check out their ratings. From 2018-2022, the team was bad. Ratings were still high.
Despite being bad for nearly 5 years, they'd still be # 3 in B1G in revenue generated (behind Michigan and OSU) and # 3 in the SEC (behind A&M and Georgia).
Their athletics revenue was 12th highest in the nation in 2019, and they tied for 14th in estimated annual value according to Forbes. Games against Bama in 2017 ND in 2021, and LSU in 2022 lit up the ratings numbers, and they contribute 15 % to the ACC's total revenue.
Clemson a fading regional brand? They just won 2 natties and contribute 9 % of the ACC's total revenue. They have a booster program that's envied and imitated by multiple schools across the country (IPTAY).
FSU & Clemson contribute 24 % of the ACC's total yearly revenue (15% for FSU and 9% for Clemson), yet only get 14 % back (7 % each).
Clemson is a powerhouse program with a massive fanbase - like FSU, they aren't fading anytime soon. ESPN realizes the value of both programs (along with UNC), and as I've stated, things are in the works for an impending breakup of the ACC
2/3 years is what I’ve heard
Initially, I thought that was a bit optimistic, but you’re already talking about a ~100 million difference (SEC/B1G to ACC) if it’s three years
Rutgers basketball is not too far removed from Mike Rice and Eddie Jordan and now we are debating whether or not to be left out of the NCAAs. With right hire, bball rebuild can be fast. But, has to be the right hire. Knowlton has not shown that competence. Cal may have found their Fred Gruninger, unfortunately.
no it's reality and it's evident in the fans and how the admins view their schools
agree, uva was brought up for the unc addition being a contiguous state. that's it and nothing more. Want to know who not to listen to, watch who pitches UVA
BC, Pitt, Miami (Donna should be strung up), Sarah, Wake and UVA should be sweating buckets
UVA has nothing to worry about
If they want a seat at the big kids table, they will have one
BC, Cuse & wake have no shot
Donna ruined UM
no they won't, they offer no revenue which this is all about. UVA is only a brand in the ACC
They are the quintessential type of school the B1G is looking for
Top 5 public, great athletics, tremendous reputation, premenient flagship in a fast growing state
Natural rivalries w Maryland & UNC
Solid facilities
No brainer
That is a current view of traditions. Those are subject to change. For all conferences. Watch how ACC tradition pans out in next few years. They may be a gone next.
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