Here’s a perfect example of a school that would fit into the BIG. They have all the attributes of a BIG school. Question is, do they bring enough value?
Not by the parameters in place now.
Pac12 dissolution discussion
- Thread starter rotorocker
- Start date
Not by the parameters in place now.
Cal is facing an issue that Rutgers did: does the school want to continue to nvest in big-time sports? Rutgers said "yes" by hiring Schiano and Pikiell. I don't know if Cal will. It's been a while since I've participated on the Cal board , but, judging from that board, Cal fans are *very* pessimistic.
exactly
they bring nothing to the table that matters in today's world. The larger the conference, the better the names/locations need to be
no brainer, ironic lol jk
they don't bring anything to the table that matters in today's media driven conference formations.
I'll also add this nugget for everyone; not once in any discussion that I've ever had with my friend in 'Chicago' did UVA ever come up. UVA was brought into the discussion because of the belief you had to have contiguous states to add conference members. I told you all after the last go round, that will no longer apply. History continues to validate what I've said.
BIG will move to grab 2 ACC schools and at least one more Westcoast school i.e Stanford (could they grab two, sure but ND is the final piece).
BIG is building a truly national conference, SEC is regional in focus. ND will move within the next decade as the size of the conferences and marquee names will block out ND from scheduling. The larger the conference, the less likely ND can schedule those schools. ND is very aware of this.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I want to point out that U.Va isn't just a contiguous state; it also has fierce rivalries with Maryland and UNC. (I lived in the D.C. are and was at UNC the year Virginia destroyed their chances of a major bowl with a come-from-behind win.) I don't know how much that would matter, but I just wanted to point it out. The ultimate test is going to be, "is adding this school going to increase the payout for the schools already in the conference?"
Respectfully, tell me the last time espn marketed the much anticipated match-up with unc or MD? I thought so. Lol. No one outside of acc gives a shit, that's the point. I'd wager most in acc wouldn't care either. They bring nothing on a national scale.
It's all about the Benjamins, just ask MD
Enough value in what way? The B1G wants schools who fit their type and mission, academically and athletically
Academically it goes without saying they'd be ideal
Athletically, though they've struggled in FB, they're very strong in basketball, baseball, soccer and lacrosse (4 B1G staples)
Great overall fit all around if they want in
By those parameters, what exactly would Oregon, a long rumored soon to be B1G member, bring? How about FSU? Though those are two brand teams, the Eugene and Tallahassee markets aren't exactly massive
UVA brass prefers the ACC; it's been home to them, and unlike Carolina, they don't completely sell their soul for athletics.
But money talks; and they'll have a seat at either the B1G or SEC table when it's all said and done
Never said anything about contiguous states. They're academic prowess and athletic excellence, coupled with VA growing exponentially and them fitting the B1G criteria in every way imaginable was my point
We do agree on two things though:
1. B1G looking at ACC schools (I've been told UNC and FSU are the top 2 choices)
2. ND will move within the next decade due to reasons you've mentioned
I just bring up the “value” comment because that’s the term in every expansion story.
Value means right now the BIG schools are getting $75 mill. Per year. That number will increase as time goes on. What could bringing a school like Virginia do to increase that payout?
North Carolina and Florida State are probably the biggest chips left on the table. Even those schools couldn’t add $75 million dollars in value to whatever conference they go to.
I know that is not the only reason to add schools but that’s where it gets confusing to me. If it’s all about the bottom line why would the big 2 add anyone?They can’t make the pot $75 million bigger.
Value means right now the BIG schools are getting $75 mill. Per year. That number will increase as time goes on. What could bringing a school like Virginia do to increase that payout?
North Carolina and Florida State are probably the biggest chips left on the table. Even those schools couldn’t add $75 million dollars in value to whatever conference they go to.
I know that is not the only reason to add schools but that’s where it gets confusing to me. If it’s all about the bottom line why would the big 2 add anyone?They can’t make the pot $75 million bigger.
The value prop is from both sides though
If we're just looking at FB, UVA doesn't bring much
Middle of the road program with a fairly pedestrian fanbase, overshadowed in their own state by VT, with no real hope of ever being good sans a Phil Knight type of donor
Looking at other intanigbles, starting w/sports, they're powerful in other B1G sports (baseball, soccer, Lax and basketball)
They fit exactly what the B1G is looking for academically
And the state of VA is growing - a lot of transplants are moving there, there's universities sprouting up / becoming larger (Liberty, ODU, etc.) and the tv market, though not New York levels, is decent
You are absolutely right. Only the conferences and their tv partners know what they are looking for.
Anyone who really thinks they know are just guessing.
Anyone who really thinks they know are just guessing.
You need to account for brand, not just market. The SEC and B1G have huge contracts for their “game of the week” now (I know the SEC got $300 million a year I don’t know the B1G number).
Those TV providers didn’t pay that money to show games involving Miss St or Illinois. They want those games to involve marquee names that will get the ratings advertisers want.
It’s hard to put an exact number on like you could with markets and cable subscribers, but there is definitely value to these conferences in adding marquee names that might not be in the biggest markets.
But lets say we get Florida St, North Carolina, Notre Dame and ONE more West Coast School.
With Maryland and UNC, we probably have enough Virginia presence for recruits. Do carriage Fees give us enough to warrant UVA over one of the teams above?
How does UVA bump Washington, UNC, Florida St?
- West Coast schools allow for the possibility of having a weekly Big10@Nite slot. Cant do with 2 or even 3 total. Maybe 2 Pac12 schools(to have 4 west coast), ND, and UNC
- How do you not go to Florida and the recruits and deep into SEC territory
- Georgia Tech might be a better option as a partner to Florida St. Lets say UNC wants SEC and Florida St doesn't want to be with Florida
- If Florida St and UNC are a no go, Would UVA be greater than ND, Wash, Ore, Stanford. That assures BIG10@Nite.
- If the BIG goes to 24, then sure UVA will likely be a team.
Definitely will be interesting to see how things pan out.
Last edited:
JayDogSmooth, back when Nebraska was added (2010). Harvey Pearleman (President of Nebraska) in an interview just prior to Nebraska being added, was asked if the end game was 12-14-16? Everyone though 12 maybe 16. His answer was that he saw models with as many as 24 to 27 schools.
I believe that is where we are headed. I can see the Big 10 adding 4 more from the west coast. And when the ACC collapses, picking up 4 or more.
At that point, you will have approximately 24 universities with almost all being AAU and large research institutions.
Fans and others focus on athletics. College presidents focus on academics and research. And who is running this whole show.
Beyond 20 by SEC and BIG10 means that they have isolated every other conference to the point that it is the AFC vs NFC and all College football money is going to the 2 conferences.
If there is a College Football playoff where the money is still being shared with Group of 8, then going to 24 only dwindles the amount of money that a 24 Team SEC and BIG10 is making. Other conferences will still be viable and they will still have Media Deals.
If there is a College Football playoff where the money is still being shared with Group of 8, then going to 24 only dwindles the amount of money that a 24 Team SEC and BIG10 is making. Other conferences will still be viable and they will still have Media Deals.
Agree with pretty much everything. I see the Big 2 (B1G and SEC going to 20+ each), and academics/research is huge, which is why UVA is in discussion.
If
If you look at the programs in the remaining 3 conferences the BIG could possibly get the best of the rest.Adding new markets with every school ( except ND).I can’t see a way for the SEC to do that ( as it is).
Like I said I’m happy Rutgers is in. The more time we have before more expansion the more time we have to build our brand.
Although I wouldn’t mind seeing the other three conferences get enough financial resources to stay intact. If push comes to shove the Big Ten will still be the premiere academic/athletic conference hands down.
If that’s the case I could see the BIG inviting schools to make the BIG stronger than the SEC in every category athletic and academic.
If you look at the programs in the remaining 3 conferences the BIG could possibly get the best of the rest.Adding new markets with every school ( except ND).I can’t see a way for the SEC to do that ( as it is).
Like I said I’m happy Rutgers is in. The more time we have before more expansion the more time we have to build our brand.
Although I wouldn’t mind seeing the other three conferences get enough financial resources to stay intact. If push comes to shove the Big Ten will still be the premiere academic/athletic conference hands down.
It’s more about rivalries than it is markets or “expanding the footprint”, imo. Think the SEC gives a shit about markets or “expanding their footprint” if they were to add FSU. They’d be doing neither. But think of the new yearly rivalries: FSU/Florida, FSU/Georgia, FSU/Bama, etc. Ppl in Seattle and NYC would tune into that. I didn’t know UNC/UVa had this big rivalry. I guess it’s a local thing….lol
That is my sense too in speaking with quite a few alums I am connected with. The school will regret it when UCLA takes over as top billing in the state (which some argue has already happened). I don't sense the school understands how this investment will actually help them overall.
UCLA gets more applications than Cal, in part because UCLA is in Southern California, the more populous part of the state. (There was a time when the San Francisco Bay Area had primacy, but that's *long* gone. (Cal alums sometimes call UCLA "The University of California for Lower Achievers," but that is totally wrong. Cal still has the more prestigious graduate schools, and Cal's law school is more prestigious than UCLA's (on the other hand, Cal has no medical school --one has to go across the river to San Francisco fro that), but I am not at all sure there is a good reason to prefer Cal to UCLA as an undergraduate school. That hurts because I am a double graduate of Cal.
Cal has a branding problem as well: is the institution "Cal" or is it "Berkeley?"" Cal sports fans dislike being associated with "Berkeley,"(a name they associated with radicalism) but most outsiders know the institution as "Berkeley." The place's official name is the University of California, Berkeley, but it's not clear what the short name is. I never heard the term "Cal" when I was a student ages ago, and "California" was used only for the sports teams. The institution has a task force working on this. For the moment, the branding problem prevents Cal, or whatever its name is, from getting the full benefit of whatever sports success it has (say, in crew or swimming or rugby).
Speaking of branding -- when Franklin Murphy took over in the 1950s as Chancellor of "the University of California, Los Angeles," he had to put a lot of energy into persuading the switchboard operators to use "UCLA" when answering phone calls from the outside world. Clearly he succeeded! I remember as a kid inthe late 50s looking at a publication advertising future featured college football games and "UCLA" was listed as the opponent in one of them.
Last edited:
Great history. Thanks for sharing. I agree on the Branding issue. They should double down on Cal and may be trying to do that with the "C". Not sure how well that is working. The script "Cal" is my favored branding. My daughter is a Cal Berkeley grad and is an avid Cal sports fan. I picked them up as my team after dear ol' Rutgers and we attend FB and BB games. The football atmosphere can be fantastic there (e.g., games against Stanford or UCLA). I have not witnessed much BB success, but I have gotten fond of Haas as an on-campus arena, though it doesn't compare to Pauley. The school down south did sports right.
If I had to add four, assuming that the allocations for schools would not go down, I would add UNC, Virginia, Notre Dame, and Stanford. We would be the undisputed king of academics/athletic conferences. I do care about academics - that's why we have universities in the first place. The only outlier is Nebraska - they would have to up their academic profile. All of this is fantasy and speculation, but if I was the master of the college universe....
I like CAL and if we HAD to add 2 more from Westcoast, I'd go Stanford and Cal.
Great minds think alike! That would also give the Big Ten much higher carriage fees in the San Francisco Bay Area, which is the sixth largest TV market in America.
The Acc teams aren’t going to wait a decade. UNC and Uva are losing out on $50MM a year. That’s $500MM plus over the decade.
They will either leave and let the courts figure it out or the Acc itself will dissolve.
also better than wash/oregon
I don't see the ACC breaking up as the schools have no powere to do so here. I know a lot of people think they will but if FSU could, they'd of already tried. Now they still can but it's not happening. ESPN will need to renegotiate the deal if inclined but schools like uva, sarah, pitt, bc, wake, duke etc don't bring anything to a conference table
will be interesting
disagree I don't see how they can break away without long and expensive legal fight On top of that, too many in conference benefit more by the current ACC deal than without it.
uva, pitt, sarah, bc, wake, duke.....where the hell are they gonna go? what do they bring?
The problem is, no conference that is doing well right now (meaning the SEC and B1G and even the B12) is going to get themselves involved in a long, messy, unclear, litigation battle by inviting one of these ACC teams.
None of the ACC schools are important enough for a media outlet to offer them an ND type TV deal directly and get themselves involved in that litigation.
So, how does this leaving ACC team make money? How do they make a schedule? Where do their non-football sports play? What bowl games do they have access to?
The SEC and B1G will jump at the chance to get ACC teams after the contract ends in 12 years, or after the courts have ruled on the GOR, NOT before.
This is how I read it as well. SEC and B1G don’t need to take on the legal unknown and liability of the schools that want out of the ACC. FSU, Clemson and UNC can complain all they want about the bad deal they signed but until they figure out their exit strategy and dissolution of GOR, expansion with those entities are a no go.
Sure they will. UNC and Uva add everything the B1G is looking for. If they want out, they’d be welcomed with open arms. GOR or not. Contracts are made to be broken.
The only school that has the pull to get a conference to mix themselves up in the GoR court battle is Notre Dame, and they want the ACC to go on as long as possible.
Schools like UNC, UVA,FSU etc. are desirable if available, but nowhere near important enough to get involved in a mess for.
I disagree. We will see what happens. Unc and Uva are extremely valuable to the B1G, and that's no secret.
New market. Academics, which the B1G cares about, Combined with Unc would lock down the east coast. I can tell you with certainty those schools are more than on the B1G radar. I can't speak to Uva, but I can tell you Unc has/is exploring getting out of their GOR.
Cuse bc and wake are done
There’s a few ways you can do it, the best way, and most efficient and cheapest would be to get eight schools to leave
FSU, Clemson, UVA, and UNC (not in that order) would definitely have homes in the big or sec
Then a combination of Louisville, Virginia Tech, duke, Pitt, Georgia Tech and/or NC State we need to find a landing spot.
The other way as you mentioned negotiate your way out with the help of ESPN through the courts, teaming up with other schools in order to mitigate damages across the board.
I can tell you right now from a FSU standpoint that there’s no way in hell they’re staying in that shitty ass conference until 2036 and falling a minimum of $500 million behind their peers.
At the current rate of $35-$40 million per year behind their peers, and about to grow bigger with a new TV contracts , It is flat out not happening.
Latest posts
-
-
Basketball Rutgers Basketball will hire a GM, who would you want to see in that role?- Latest: High Quality H2O
-
