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Pac12 dissolution discussion

I disagree. We will see what happens. Unc and Uva are extremely valuable to the B1G, and that's no secret.
I agree with this as well. From what I hear there is mutual interest from these schools and B1G. B1G can wait until UVA and UNC figure out the mess that is the ACC GOR.

As you mentioned earlier, the ever increasing divide of the have and have nots(B1G/SEC revenue vs ACC etc.) being in the $50mm/ year range. The top 4 ACC candidates can’t wait and loose out on 1/2 billion in revenue over next 10-12 years. But The B1G does not need UNC or UVA with the hair that the GOR brings. The B1G may want UNC and UVA but UNC and UVA need the revenue boost that the B1G would provide. And until both sides “need” each other. I don’t see anything happening.

I agree also with contracts are meant to be broken, and I am surprised that someone hasn’t figured out the exit strategy from the GOR.
 
I agree also with contracts are meant to be broken, and I am surprised that someone hasn’t figured out the exit strategy from the GOR.
If it is a valid contract, it isn’t meant to be broken without some kind of settlement or court judgement on the terms.

The ACC has no incentive to cooperate in coming up with a quick settlement, and involving the courts could tie things up for years, with the uncertain result ranging from $120 million (schools only have to pay the exit fee and their new conference gets their TV rights immediately) to close to half a billion (the TV rights of leaving schools stay with the ACC and the new conference doesn’t get them until 2036, and the school don’t even get the annual payment for those rights through 2036).
 
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New market. Academics, which the B1G cares about, Combined with Unc would lock down the east coast. I can tell you with certainty those schools are more than on the B1G radar. I can't speak to Uva, but I can tell you Unc has/is exploring getting out of their GOR.
uva doens't add new mkts that matter as we've got DC and northern VA already

uva adds nothing, literally nothing

VT adds the same in reality
 
Cuse bc and wake are done

There’s a few ways you can do it, the best way, and most efficient and cheapest would be to get eight schools to leave

FSU, Clemson, UVA, and UNC (not in that order) would definitely have homes in the big or sec

Then a combination of Louisville, Virginia Tech, duke, Pitt, Georgia Tech and/or NC State we need to find a landing spot.

The other way as you mentioned negotiate your way out with the help of ESPN through the courts, teaming up with other schools in order to mitigate damages across the board.


I can tell you right now from a FSU standpoint that there’s no way in hell they’re staying in that shitty ass conference until 2036 and falling a minimum of $500 million behind their peers.

At the current rate of $35-$40 million per year behind their peers, and about to grow bigger with a new TV contracts , It is flat out not happening.
I hear you but there isnt' a consensus among the schools to break the GOR so FSU has very little options. I doubt any of the schools will do a b12 rev arrangement seeing how that worked out. FSU doesn't have the clout to move this on their own. Can they buy their way out? I would have to imagine the amount would 150-200mm dollars and doubt any school, including ND could bear that cost
 
If it is a valid contract, it isn’t meant to be broken without some kind of settlement or court judgement on the terms.

The ACC has no incentive to cooperate in coming up with a quick settlement, and involving the courts could tie things up for years, with the uncertain result ranging from $120 million (schools only have to pay the exit fee and their new conference gets their TV rights immediately) to close to half a billion (the TV rights of leaving schools stay with the ACC and the new conference doesn’t get them until 2036, and the school don’t even get the annual payment for those rights through 2036).
well said

the ACC schools management that locked them in should be castrated
 
If it is a valid contract, it isn’t meant to be broken without some kind of settlement or court judgement on the terms.

The ACC has no incentive to cooperate in coming up with a quick settlement, and involving the courts could tie things up for years, with the uncertain result ranging from $120 million (schools only have to pay the exit fee and their new conference gets their TV rights immediately) to close to half a billion (the TV rights of leaving schools stay with the ACC and the new conference doesn’t get them until 2036, and the school don’t even get the annual payment for those rights through 2036).
Listen I agree with the “valid contract” statement but as you and I know. For every “valid contract” contract that is written there are teams of lawyers that sole purpose is to figure out a way to make that contract invalid. The only way for the GOR to end prematurely is if they can figure out an exit strategy.

The Acc and ESPN has no incentive to let anyone out early.
 
I hear you but there isnt' a consensus among the schools to break the GOR so FSU has very little options. I doubt any of the schools will do a b12 rev arrangement seeing how that worked out. FSU doesn't have the clout to move this on their own. Can they buy their way out? I would have to imagine the amount would 150-200mm dollars and doubt any school, including ND could bear that cost
You already have the top 3 schools in the conference openly advocating for uneven revenue sharing, which is unprecented

All 3 (FSU, Clemson and UNC) are also looking into it from a legal aspect

Ideally you'd get 8 schools to break the GOR, but they'd all need landing spots

So it's either that, or get some help from ESPN, join forces w/a few other ACC schools, and litigate your way out over x number of years

The 120 million Alford cited was just the cost of leaving, not the GOR issue - if it was just 120 mil, they'd write a check tomorrow and be done with it
 
well said

the ACC schools management that locked them in should be castrated
Swofford was the catalyst, and ESPN also played a role in requiring all schools to re-up the contract until 2036 to get the ACC network off the ground

Maryland is the smartest leaving in 2012 for ~50 million - though I don't think the other schools had options like they had, thereby forcing them to sign another GOR under the pretense of the ACC network being a boom $$ wise (which, clearly it isn't)
 
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You already have the top 3 schools in the conference openly advocating for uneven revenue sharing, which is unprecented

All 3 (FSU, Clemson and UNC) are also looking into it from a legal aspect

Ideally you'd get 8 schools to break the GOR, but they'd all need landing spots

So it's either that, or get some help from ESPN, join forces w/a few other ACC schools, and litigate your way out over x number of years

The 120 million Alford cited was just the cost of leaving, not the GOR issue - if it was just 120 mil, they'd write a check tomorrow and be done with it
you're missing the point though in that those 3 schools can scream hollar and whine all they want. If the other schools say fk you, there is nothing they can do and the other schools know it.

you are not getting 8 schools to break the GOR

look, only 3 schools are desired, UNC, Clemson, FSU. it's not 120mm, it's 120mm plus compensation for renegotiated contract to which the other schools need to be made whole.

this is not a simple game
 
you're missing the point though in that those 3 schools can scream hollar and whine all they want. If the other schools say fk you, there is nothing they can do and the other schools know it.

you are not getting 8 schools to break the GOR

look, only 3 schools are desired, UNC, Clemson, FSU. it's not 120mm, it's 120mm plus compensation for renegotiated contract to which the other schools need to be made whole.

this is not a simple game
I agree, b/c you need 8 total to void the GOR

But it has to start somewhere - so when your 3 bell cows start making noise (particually UNC, who essentially runs the conference), people listen

Throw in state politics (State / Duke), and an ever growing money disparity, and fringe programs who have invested heavily into FB (VT, Ville, NCS) start paying attention

And as I said, 120 mil was the get out fee Alford floated to the BOT - in reality, it's roughly a half billion w/the GOR

If only 120 mil, the check would be written by EOB today
 
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I agree, b/c you need 8 total to void the GOR

But it has to start somewhere - so when your 3 bell cows start making noise (particually UNC, who essentially runs the conference), people listen

Throw in state politics (State / Duke), and an ever growing money disparity, and fringe programs who have invested heavily into FB (VT, Ville, NCS) start paying attention

And as I said, 120 mil was the get out fee Alford floated to the BOT - in reality, it's roughly a half billion w/the GOR

If only 120 mil, the check would be written by EOB today
Is 8 votes truly the number to break the contract? I have heard unanimous, supermajority and majority. 8 is hard enough but supermajority and unanimous will be almost impossible.
 
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The hard part is what 8 schools really feel confident that they can find landing spot if they left. You could split the Carolina schools, you could split the Virginia schools, that gives you 4. FSU may have had talks with the Big 10, that gets you to 5.

Duke may (big if) be a partner with North Carolina, that would get you to 6.

Clemson and Miami may believe they get a ticket, but there is no sure thing (unless they talked to someone). They could be screwed, both do not fit the academics with the Big 10 (unless they have had talks and even then that would be with the Big 10 office and NOT the school presidents who have final say). And why would the SEC take, Univ South Carolina covers South Carolina and UF covers Florida. Both Clemson and Miami could be viewed as extra mouths to feed.

Pitt, Syracuse and BC might get in the Big 12, have they had talks and sure is that?

Lot of uncertainty, these threats might get people talking and looking at options. This could be the start of it all falling apart. But still going to take time.
 
Is 8 votes truly the number to break the contract? I have heard unanimous, supermajority and majority. 8 is hard enough but supermajority and unanimous will be almost impossible.
8 is the magic number
Magic being a relative term b/c all 8 would have to find landing spots
And as of today, in regard to the B1G and SEC, only 4 would be sure fire picks
 
Is 8 votes truly the number to break the contract? I have heard unanimous, supermajority and majority. 8 is hard enough but supermajority and unanimous will be almost impossible.
I doubt it’s 8 and have given reasons why in these threads. It takes a supermajority to kick someone out of the conference. It takes a supermajority to change the revenue distribution model. Does it makes sense that it wouldn’t take at least a supermajority to alter the GOR. On top of which it took a unanimous vote to put the GOR in place so it would likely take a unanimous vote to alter it, similar to the CFP deal with the 10 conferences and unanimity needed to expand the playoffs.
 
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The hard part is what 8 schools really feel confident that they can find landing spot if they left. You could split the Carolina schools, you could split the Virginia schools, that gives you 4. FSU may have had talks with the Big 10, that gets you to 5.

Duke may (big if) be a partner with North Carolina, that would get you to 6.

Clemson and Miami may believe they get a ticket, but there is no sure thing (unless they talked tom someone). They could be screwed, both do not fit the academics with the Big 10 (unless they have had talks and even then that would be with the Big 10 office and NOT the school presidents who have final say).

Pitt, Syracuse and BC might get in the Big 12, have they had talks and sure is that?

Lot of uncertainty, these threats might get people talking and looking at options. This could be the start of it all falling apart. But still going to take time.
That's the rub, you need 8 to find landing spots
Right now you have 4 in FSU, UNC, Clemson and UVA

Does Duke stay w/UNC? Does NC State tag along?

Lots of possibilities but interesting to say the least
 
That's the rub, you need 8 to find landing spots
Right now you have 4 in FSU, UNC, Clemson and UVA

Does Duke stay w/UNC? Does NC State tag along?

Lots of possibilities but interesting to say the least
where is uva going?
 
8 is the magic number
Magic being a relative term b/c all 8 would have to find landing spots
And as of today, in regard to the B1G and SEC, only 4 would be sure fire picks
That’s not the question. It’s what is needed to break the contract. Take finding landing spots out of it. Because if that’s all that is needed I’m thinking 8 would have sprung into action already.
 
would love to read their respective boards. I'd imagine sarah and pitt are losing their collective minds when this comes up
 
I doubt it’s 8 and have given reasons why in these threads. It takes a supermajority to kick someone out of the conference. It takes a supermajority to change the revenue distribution model. Does it makes sense that it wouldn’t take at least a supermajority to alter the GOR. On top of which it took a unanimous vote to put the GOR in place so it would likely take a unanimous vote to alter it, similar to the CFP deal with the 10 conferences and unanimity needed to expand the playoffs.
Yea that is what I believe. Unanimous makes the most sense. Because braking the GOR is theoretically dissolving the conference.
 
That’s not the question. It’s what is needed to break the contract. Take finding landing spots out of it. Because if that’s all that is needed I’m thinking 8 would have sprung into action already.
Not really
Absent of the Big 4, the others aren't exactly world beaters (athletically & academically)

As I stated, there's a lot going on behind the scenes. Noles, Clemmy and Rams leading the way. I anticipate things heating up sometime in the not so distant future
 
Not really
Absent of the Big 4, the others aren't exactly world beaters (athletically & academically)

As I stated, there's a lot going on behind the scenes. Noles, Clemmy and Rams leading the way. I anticipate things heating up sometime in the not so distant future
Again the answer to break the GOR is not 8. I doubt it’s supermajority. Only thing that makes sense is unanimous. And finding landing spots beyond top 4 or anything more than 6-8 at a level that would make most/all happy is impossible.
 
jay, I really wonder about Clemson. Are they sure they are going to the SEC? They may want it but would the SEC. The state is covered by Univ South Carolina and it would be duplicating a market. The only reason to take them would to deny the Big 10. And is the Big 10 willing or want them. The SEC could view it, the Big 10 wont take them. So we will let them die on the vine, one less competitor.
 
Again the answer to break the GOR is not 8. I doubt it’s supermajority. Only thing that makes sense is unanimous. And finding landing spots for anything more than 6-8 at a level that would make most/all happy is impossible.
Yes, it is 8
That's the majority

As currently constituted, 4 have landing spots
One (UVA), isn't as anxious to leave as the other 3

The 3 actively looking to leave are all working together to solve the puzzle, and ultimately getting the others on board. Lot of moving parts w/ESPN, Pac cable deal, ND status, Fox, landing spots, etc.
 
jay, I really wonder about Clemson. Are they sure they are going to the SEC? They may want it but would the SEC. The state is covered by Univ South Carolina and it would be duplicating a market. The only reason to take them would to deny the Big 10. And is the Big 10 willing or want them. The SEC could view it, the Big 10 wont take them. So we will let them die on the vine, one less competitor.
Dup. markets is a thing of the past
SEC went under A & M nose and got UT in, same state, same market, and told A&M to pound sand
 
UCLA gets more applications than Cal, in part because UCLA is in Southern California, the more populous part of the state. (There was a time when the San Francisco Bay Area had primacy, but that's *long* gone. (Cal alums sometimes call UCLA "The University of California for Lower Achievers," but that is totally wrong. Cal still has the more prestigious graduate schools, and Cal's law school is more prestigious than UCLA's (on the other hand, Cal has no medical school --one has to go across the river to San Francisco fro that), but I am not at all sure there is a good reason to prefer Cal to UCLA as an undergraduate school. That hurts because I am a double graduate of Cal.

Cal has a branding problem as well: is the institution "Cal" or is it "Berkeley?"" Cal sports fans dislike being associated with "Berkeley,"(a name they associated with radicalism) but most outsiders know the institution as "Berkeley." The place's official name is the University of California, Berkeley, but it's not clear what the short name is. I never heard the term "Cal" when I was a student ages ago, and "California" was used only for the sports teams. The institution has a task force working on this. For the moment, the branding problem prevents Cal, or whatever its name is, from getting the full benefit of whatever sports success it has (say, in crew or swimming or rugby).

Speaking of branding -- when Franklin Murphy took over in the 1950s as Chancellor of "the University of California, Los Angeles," he had to put a lot of energy into persuading the switchboard operators to use "UCLA" when answering phone calls from the outside world. Clearly he succeeded! I remember as a kid inthe late 50s looking at a publication advertising future featured college football games and "UCLA" was listed as the opponent in one of them.

I’m not trying to be glib, but on the Cal versus UC Berkeley argument Cal comes out on top. Cal has been on their football helmets for many decades. The Bears use the “C” logo now. the script Cal has been on the 50 yard line as well. To me, the university is always just Cal. (Except where I live in Davis; Cal can be confusing, so UCB or Berkeley is commonly used. But I digress.)
 
You already have the top 3 schools in the conference openly advocating for uneven revenue sharing, which is unprecented

All 3 (FSU, Clemson and UNC) are also looking into it from a legal aspect

Ideally you'd get 8 schools to break the GOR, but they'd all need landing spots

So it's either that, or get some help from ESPN, join forces w/a few other ACC schools, and litigate your way out over x number of years

The 120 million Alford cited was just the cost of leaving, not the GOR issue - if it was just 120 mil, they'd write a check tomorrow and be done with it
To me, these schools raising unequal revenue sharing is their admission they can’t find a weakness in the GOR, because otherwise they would just leave.
 
uva doens't add new mkts that matter as we've got DC and northern VA already

uva adds nothing, literally nothing

VT adds the same in reality

That most certainly add a new market as does UNC. Uva would be the bridge between the two. This isn't a debate. The B1G has already studied this. They and Unc, outside of ND, are the two biggest targets out there.
 
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Yes, it is 8
That's the majority

As currently constituted, 4 have landing spots
One (UVA), isn't as anxious to leave as the other 3

The 3 actively looking to leave are all working together to solve the puzzle, and ultimately getting the others on board. Lot of moving parts w/ESPN, Pac cable deal, ND status, Fox, landing spots, etc.
I’ve posted articles showing it’s a supermajority for other changes in the conference like membership and revenue distribution. Can you cite a source that says it’s 8 to alter the GOR or is this just your FSU booster source?
 
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Listen I agree with the “valid contract” statement but as you and I know. For every “valid contract” contract that is written there are teams of lawyers that sole purpose is to figure out a way to make that contract invalid. The only way for the GOR to end prematurely is if they can figure out an exit strategy.

The Acc and ESPN has no incentive to let anyone out early.
I would imagine Texas has a pretty high priced team of lawyers, and they couldn’t find a weakness in the B12’s GOR to get out early.
 
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But the state of Texas is another animal, given the size of the state.
It is, but the fact that the SEC did this under A&M's nose, with them just joining the conference in large part to break away from UT, shows just how much $$ plays a role, and that any, and everything, is on the table
 
I would imagine Texas has a pretty high priced team of lawyers, and they couldn’t find a weakness in the B12’s GOR to get out early.
And that was with less duration. I said back then that I thought it would be very hard and at most 1-2 years early. It ended up being 1 year early. I’ll generously expand that 1-4 years early if the numbers get too big to create stress but not 10+ years. IMO there will be a 2030s handle on things when they leave.

You know one other scenario I heard that seemed somewhat more plausible for creating some additional revenue than getting out of the GOR would be for the ACC and PAC to merge but just football.
 
To me, these schools raising unequal revenue sharing is their admission they can’t find a weakness in the GOR, because otherwise they would just leave.
By all accounts, the GOR is a well-written, nearly impenetrable contract
But before anything happens where it'll shake things up (e.g. breaking a contract 13 years early), bombs need to go off

If it was a bad deal, and ESPN half assed the language, they'd leave tomorrow

Make no mistake, leaving will be challenging, but for the survival of these institutions athletics wise, it needs to, and will, be done
 
Or it was cheaper to pay the price and leave. Litigation aint cheap.

They weren't under the same time constraints. They had to wait two years, not 15.

That's much easier for them to swallow and while the pursued getting out a year early, at some point it doesn't matter given the short timeline in the grand scheme.
 
I’ve posted articles showing it’s a supermajority for other changes in the conference like membership and revenue distribution. Can you cite a source that says it’s 8 to alter the GOR or is this just your FSU booster source?
Clemson booster buddy filled me in, like you I initally thought it was a super majority but there's some weird law in NC apparently making the ACC a non profit

 
And that was with less duration. I said back then that I thought it would be very hard and at most 1-2 years early. It ended up being 1 year early. I’ll generously expand that 1-4 years early if the numbers get too big to create stress but not 10+ years. IMO there will be a 2030s handle on things when they leave.

You know one other scenario I heard that seemed somewhat more plausible for creating some additional revenue than getting out of the GOR would be for the ACC and PAC to merge but just football.

I think an interesting idea would be crossover conference championship games. ACC 1 versus P12 2 in, say Charlotte and P12 1 versus ACC 2 in Vegas. The problem is there are no real rivalries between the two conferences.
 
And that was with less duration. I said back then that I thought it would be very hard and at most 1-2 years early. It ended up being 1 year early. I’ll generously expand that 1-4 years early if the numbers get too big to create stress but not 10+ years. IMO there will be a 2030s handle on things when they leave.

You know one other scenario I heard that seemed somewhat more plausible for creating some additional revenue than getting out of the GOR would be for the ACC and PAC to merge but just football.
Only way it stays together is if ESPN gives them more money (e.g. says here's X, now you'll be only 5-10 million/year behind SEC)

Even then, it's a dying conference of misfits
 
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