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Pac12 dissolution discussion

They’ll get exposure and they have an autobid for the CFP and that’s really all that matters. I’ve said before it’s actually an opportunity for a B12 team to raise itself on the landscape. They will be largely be competing with similarly resourced schools. I’ve said the same for the ACC.

Frankly, even if they PAC12 got pillaged badly, it would be better for all the MWC schools to move because past history has shown that they could get all the grandfathered benefits of the PAC. So for them to it would be an opportunity to raid themselves up.
It's not like the MAC or the Pac-12 are frozen out of the CFP. Every conference is going to get a chance. I'm not sold on the Big 12 being a power conference for football. They haven't replaced some of the big schools like Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Texas. UCF, Cincy, and Houston are a few notches below. Hence, the Big 12 is playing weekday games, and all schools must play at least a game on those days. I doubt UT, OU, or NU would play on a Friday, Thursday, or Wednesday yearly as a regularly scheduled game. IMO, both the Big 12 and the Pac-12 are a step below the other conferences.
 
It's not like the MAC or the Pac-12 are frozen out of the CFP. Every conference is going to get a chance. I'm not sold on the Big 12 being a power conference for football. They haven't replaced some of the big schools like Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Texas. UCF, Cincy, and Houston are a few notches below. Hence, the Big 12 is playing weekday games, and all schools must play at least a game on those days. I doubt UT, OU, or NU would play on a Friday, Thursday, or Wednesday yearly as a regularly scheduled game. IMO, both the Big 12 and the Pac-12 are a step below the other conferences.
Should USC get a berth, they should first have to play Tulane to prove their worth. I mean, because last year was freaking hilarious watching Tulane beat them.
 
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It's not like the MAC or the Pac-12 are frozen out of the CFP. Every conference is going to get a chance. I'm not sold on the Big 12 being a power conference for football. They haven't replaced some of the big schools like Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Texas. UCF, Cincy, and Houston are a few notches below. Hence, the Big 12 is playing weekday games, and all schools must play at least a game on those days. I doubt UT, OU, or NU would play on a Friday, Thursday, or Wednesday yearly as a regularly scheduled game. IMO, both the Big 12 and the Pac-12 are a step below the other conferences.
I have been surprised that BYU hasn't become more popular than it is.
I always felt it would be like Notre Dame is to Catholic college football fans to the Mormon college football fans..

As for the B-12 being a football power, only the B1G and SEC fit that bill now
Every other ( so called P-5 )conference is at the mercy of the B1G & SEC
if one or both of them decide to expand
The PAC might be the only one that has to fear the Big 12 and the B1G and SEC only have each other to fear.
But nither need worry because the ACC ,PAC and/or Vitamin Conference
can fill what they need if expansion is the goal
 
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It's not like the MAC or the Pac-12 are frozen out of the CFP. Every conference is going to get a chance. I'm not sold on the Big 12 being a power conference for football. They haven't replaced some of the big schools like Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Texas. UCF, Cincy, and Houston are a few notches below. Hence, the Big 12 is playing weekday games, and all schools must play at least a game on those days. I doubt UT, OU, or NU would play on a Friday, Thursday, or Wednesday yearly as a regularly scheduled game. IMO, both the Big 12 and the Pac-12 are a step below the other conferences.
They are a step below but that’s not the point. Outside of money, they have the same basic guarantee of an autobid. Having access like the G5 is good but an autobid is better meaning every year your conference will have at least 1 representative in the playoff. That’s a big opportunity for their members to raise themselves up. They will also get a larger share of the CFP money pie vs what the G5 will get.
 
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I have been surprised that BYU hasn't become more popular than it is.
I always felt it would be like Notre Dame is to Catholic college football fans to the Mormon college football fans..

As for the B-12 being a football power, only the B1G and SEC fit that bill now
Every other ( so called P-5 )conference is at the mercy of the B1G & SEC
if one or both of them decide to expand
The PAC might be the only one that has to fear the Big 12 and the B1G and SEC only have each other to fear.
But nither need worry because the ACC ,PAC and/or Vitamin Conference
can fill what they need if expansion is the goal

BYU fans don’t drink and generally are super cheapskates. They don’t bring the kind of economic good-will as the hard-partying, free-spending schools. As a result, BYU makes for much less goodwill. Also, LDS. BTW, they don’t like to use the Mormon word anymore.
 
BYU fans don’t drink and generally are super cheapskates. They don’t bring the kind of economic good-will as the hard-partying, free-spending schools. As a result, BYU makes for much less goodwill. Also, LDS. BTW, they don’t like to use the Mormon word anymore.
thanks forgot about that and when it comes to talking about the Church of Latter Day Saints I'm always afraid that I;d put LSD in where LDS should go
Happy Birthday GIF by Internet Cat Video Festival
 
BYU fans don’t drink and generally are super cheapskates. They don’t bring the kind of economic good-will as the hard-partying, free-spending schools. As a result, BYU makes for much less goodwill. Also, LDS. BTW, they don’t like to use the Mormon word anymore.
LMAO!! You stereotype a whole group of fans as "super cheapskates" and then you correct the previous poster on the use of the term Mormon. Do you think they give less to the athletic program because they feel obligated to tithe at least 10% of their income to the church? Those Mormons have some really wacky values, imagine, donating to your church versus a college athletic program, insane.
 
LMAO!! You stereotype a whole group of fans as "super cheapskates" and then you correct the previous poster on the use of the term Mormon. Do you think they give less to the athletic program because they feel obligated to tithe at least 10% of their income to the church? Those Mormons have some really wacky values, imagine, donating to your church versus a college athletic program, insane.
every momon I ever knew was far from a cheapskate and very generous

Funny, Christian charities provide more to more than any gov't entity
 
LMAO!! You stereotype a whole group of fans as "super cheapskates" and then you correct the previous poster on the use of the term Mormon. Do you think they give less to the athletic program because they feel obligated to tithe at least 10% of their income to the church? Those Mormons have some really wacky values, imagine, donating to your church versus a college athletic program, insane.

BYU fans definitely support their team - they buy tickets and all the gear. I'm talking about traveling. When they travel they are known for not spending money. I'll find some supporting info. In the meantime, something to read:

 
They are a step below but that’s not the point. Outside of money, they have the same basic guarantee of an autobid. Having access like the G5 is good but an autobid is better meaning every year your conference will have at least 1 representative in the playoff. That’s a big opportunity for their members to raise themselves up. They will also get a larger share of the CFP money pie vs what the G5 will get.
So the current Big 12 is now what the Big East was in the mid-2000s, a great basketball league and fighting for respect as a football league. 🤣 The Big East invited several G5 types of schools and lost its status as BCS conference. The Big 12 is doing the same thing. It's only a matter of time before the Big 12's status as a power conference is questioned.
 
So the current Big 12 is now what the Big East was in the mid-2000s, a great basketball league and fighting for respect as a football league. 🤣 The Big East invited several G5 types of schools and lost its status as BCS conference. The Big 12 is doing the same thing. It's only a matter of time before the Big 12's status as a power conference is questioned.
I don't think any of the current P5 will be kicked out from an autobid. Also think the G5 will retain its current access too. CFP money split might change though with the SEC/B10 getting the most, the other 3 getting less and the G5 after that or it might be related to number of teams that qualify for the CFP adding money to a fixed base amount. So most years it could end up breaking down that way anyhow.

They want inclusion not exclusion, it also keeps outsiders off their back.
 
I don't think any of the current P5 will be kicked out from an autobid. Also think the G5 will retain its current access too. CFP money split might change though with the SEC/B10 getting the most, the other 3 getting less and the G5 after that or it might be related to number of teams that qualify for the CFP adding money to a fixed base amount. So most years it could end up breaking down that way anyhow.

They want inclusion not exclusion, it also keeps outsiders off their back.
No one gets kicked out. As you said, those with the upper hand will change the rules and devalue the Big 12's cut. Over time that money difference will become an issue for conferences that believe they are power conferences.
 
No one gets kicked out. As you said, those with the upper hand will change the rules and devalue the Big 12's cut. Over time that money difference will become an issue for conferences that believe they are power conferences.
The B12 schools will be mainly competing with other similarly resourced B12 schools. Same or the ACC and same for the PAC. Schools in each of those conferences will have opportunities for an autobid, some years maybe 2 bids. That's a big opportunity for those schools to raise up.

lt's not much different than what people thought of the BE after the basketball schools got left behind. Quite few here thought they would die on the vine. Instead since then, Villanova won a championship. UConn won a championship last year and they field teams that are ranked, make the tourney and do well.

I don't know that any team from the other 3 conferences will win championships but they certainly can be ranked, make playoffs and advance in the playoffs. That can help schools that do that raise their status on the landscape and be relevant.
 
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The playoff is set up so the champs from the top 6 conferences each get an auto if. G5 will not be locked out.
That's through this contract and the CFP expanded playoffs in the final 2 years of it. Nothing is set for the next CFP deal but I'd be surprised if they veered away from that model too much.

I think money distribution would be the change though, not configuration of how the playoffs are set up.
 
Nice Q&A with Delany and his thoughts on the origins of realignment. It's a paywall but here's the segment on the Big East.





For Delany, modern realignment begins with two events, both of which predate his days with the Big Ten. The Big East’s formation on May 31, 1979, came one week before the OVC hired him as its commissioner. The Big East chose eight urban basketball-first members, and in concert with ESPN’s debut in September 1979, the league found national footing on television. The other marker came on June 2, 1984, when the United States Supreme Court ruled the NCAA violated the Sherman Act by price fixing and placing artificial limits on its membership through its television policy.

Both events work collectively to set the course for the 198 Division I football moves since 1990.

Delany:
The first thing I would say is CFA defeats NCAA. That would be No. 1. No. 2, I think, maybe even No. 1 is a precursor to ’84, the founding of the Big East by Dave Gavitt on a media-based conference. They were mostly Catholic but not exclusively. They were on the East Coast. And TV underlined it. And there was no football involved; it was just basketball.

But the same year the Big East did that, you know what was founded? ESPN. So I would say ’79 begins to lay the foundation for a new media entity in ESPN and a conference based on media markets.

The Big East was lucrative in the early 1980s and had to fend off an attempt from then Penn State football coach/athletic director Joe Paterno to pick off Boston College and Syracuse to form an all-sports Eastern league involving Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech and the Nittany Lions. Gavitt secured Syracuse and Boston College by inviting Pittsburgh on Nov. 18, 1981. It killed Paterno’s attempt.

The next year, Penn State sought admission into the Big East. Six of the eight Big East members had to vote yes on Penn State. Basketball-only schools Georgetown, St. John’s and Villanova voted no, which kept Penn State out. Its ripple effect was profound when Penn State was accepted as a Big Ten member in 1990.

Delany:
If Penn State is with Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College … the East Coast is stabilized, and the Big Ten doesn’t have many places to move. So you have a more formidable, a more stable Big East. But in my view, that inability to see that future and the importance of football made the Big East very vulnerable.

Notre Dame doesn’t ever move. Florida State doesn’t move in my view if Penn State doesn’t move. The SEC was already good with their little move (Arkansas and South Carolina). And Florida State is not going to be pursued by the ACC. I’m saying none of that happens if the Big East expands properly to eight football schools and 12 basketball schools. But their rationale was, that’s too many schools. Eight and 12. Isn’t that kind of quaint?

It would have changed history probably in the sense that if the East were consolidated with football, and you had Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Penn State, maybe West Virginia, and they had full basketball schools, the Big East publics, plus the Catholics plus Penn State and few others, arguably there would have been no vacuum there.
 
Nice Q&A with Delany and his thoughts on the origins of realignment. It's a paywall but here's the segment on the Big East.





For Delany, modern realignment begins with two events, both of which predate his days with the Big Ten. The Big East’s formation on May 31, 1979, came one week before the OVC hired him as its commissioner. The Big East chose eight urban basketball-first members, and in concert with ESPN’s debut in September 1979, the league found national footing on television. The other marker came on June 2, 1984, when the United States Supreme Court ruled the NCAA violated the Sherman Act by price fixing and placing artificial limits on its membership through its television policy.

Both events work collectively to set the course for the 198 Division I football moves since 1990.

Delany:
The first thing I would say is CFA defeats NCAA. That would be No. 1. No. 2, I think, maybe even No. 1 is a precursor to ’84, the founding of the Big East by Dave Gavitt on a media-based conference. They were mostly Catholic but not exclusively. They were on the East Coast. And TV underlined it. And there was no football involved; it was just basketball.

But the same year the Big East did that, you know what was founded? ESPN. So I would say ’79 begins to lay the foundation for a new media entity in ESPN and a conference based on media markets.

The Big East was lucrative in the early 1980s and had to fend off an attempt from then Penn State football coach/athletic director Joe Paterno to pick off Boston College and Syracuse to form an all-sports Eastern league involving Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech and the Nittany Lions. Gavitt secured Syracuse and Boston College by inviting Pittsburgh on Nov. 18, 1981. It killed Paterno’s attempt.

The next year, Penn State sought admission into the Big East. Six of the eight Big East members had to vote yes on Penn State. Basketball-only schools Georgetown, St. John’s and Villanova voted no, which kept Penn State out. Its ripple effect was profound when Penn State was accepted as a Big Ten member in 1990.

Delany:
If Penn State is with Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College … the East Coast is stabilized, and the Big Ten doesn’t have many places to move. So you have a more formidable, a more stable Big East. But in my view, that inability to see that future and the importance of football made the Big East very vulnerable.

Notre Dame doesn’t ever move. Florida State doesn’t move in my view if Penn State doesn’t move. The SEC was already good with their little move (Arkansas and South Carolina). And Florida State is not going to be pursued by the ACC. I’m saying none of that happens if the Big East expands properly to eight football schools and 12 basketball schools. But their rationale was, that’s too many schools. Eight and 12. Isn’t that kind of quaint?

It would have changed history probably in the sense that if the East were consolidated with football, and you had Syracuse, Boston College, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Penn State, maybe West Virginia, and they had full basketball schools, the Big East publics, plus the Catholics plus Penn State and few others, arguably there would have been no vacuum there.
As time goes on, "Georgetown, St. John’s and Villanova" may lose their relevance for sports. Irony.
 
As time goes on, "Georgetown, St. John’s and Villanova" may lose their relevance for sports. Irony.
From the Pat Forde article I just posted.

Non-football aspirations could involve St. John’s, which has the big-dollar booster backing of Vitamin Water founder Mike Repole and just landed Rick Pitino as its coach
 
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B12 deputy commish also said he’d be shocked if they don’t add additional members in th future. Around 8:40 mark of his interview.

Their leadership has definitely been one that’s aggressive and willing to stir the pot.
 
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B12 deputy commish also said he’d be shocked if they don’t add additional members in th future. Around 8:40 mark of his interview.

Their leadership has definitely been one that’s aggressive and willing to stir the pot.
Good for the Big 12 brass to be aggressive, but at the end of the day, they'll still be the best of the Mid 3 and well behind the Power 2.
 
Good for the Big 12 brass to be aggressive, but at the end of the day, they'll still be the best of the Mid 3 and well behind the Power 2.
They don't even need to be the best of the other 3 but just good enough money wise and have opportunity. I've said the same for the ACC and PAC (PAC might fall back money wise but if they still keep their autobid that's a big thing).

What's the point of the money? It's just a means to an end, the end being winning and achieving big goals. If you're making less money but use it wisely and make the playoffs that's plenty good. Just like Cincy and TCU did in a 4 team one let alone 12 (or maybe 16 down the line). UConn just won the MBB national championship, other schools have gone deep in the tourney. They don't make as much money but are achieving good to lofty goals and that's the main point. Also see schools like Cincy, Utah, TCU, UCF
 
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From the Pat Forde article I just posted.

Non-football aspirations could involve St. John’s, which has the big-dollar booster backing of Vitamin Water founder Mike Repole and just landed Rick Pitino as its coach
The conventional argument is football bus is driving bigger revenues. The help of alums for smaller schools does provide relief at this time. But that is why I noted longer term aspects. Lots to still settle out in the short term, but seems longer term some of this won't be sustainable by the smaller schools unless the line up a few Mike Repoles (which some may).
 
As time goes on, "Georgetown, St. John’s and Villanova" may lose their relevance for sports. Irony.
funny. I thought Seton Hall was one of the no votes and always wondered what could have been if we went into the Big East as a charter member; I always assumed that PSU would have been invited considering how closely aligned RU and PSU were.
 
Part 3 of interview with Delany. Mentions what I've always said. ESPN isn't going to do anything to help the ACC contrary to what some think. Why would they pay more than they have to, especially when they're struggling with costs. The 2 strikes in Hollywood should tell you how much they will try to hold the line on costs.

Also mention of conferences maybe getting too big to a point where it might invite outside interference but no mention of what that point is. I don't know about that but that's why I've always mentioned there will always be more inclusion not less when it comes to the postseason. So if you're the ACC, B12 and probably the PAC the opportunity to make playoffs and achieve big goals will still be available. I was thinking there may be a different money split in the new CFP deal beyond 2025 but who knows maybe it'll be a little less uneven than I was thinking. Keep everyone appeased to a degree.



Some excerpts:

But don’t expect a network like ESPN to orchestrate moves such as Clemson, North Carolina or Florida State to the SEC while it owns the ACC’s rights through 2036.

Delany:
These networks already have control of these rights at 50 cents on the dollar. Why would they pay somebody more for something they already own?

As for the Big Ten and SEC, which have emerged as the nation’s most powerful conferences, Delany issued a cautionary note should either contemplate adding more spoils to the realignment war chest. While political factions have interfered in realignment, a dominant Big Ten or SEC could shift government officials from grandstanding to legitimate investigation.

Delany:
If I look at the SEC, I see that they should have pretty much everything that they need. I think the Big Ten probably has everything they need. I think the others may be threatened. But I would say if somebody goes beyond 16, whether it’s the Big Ten or SEC, they’ve got to ask them the question about size and scale and market power. The NCAA was found to have had market power in 1984 and the way they had their hold on college sports TV was ruled to be excessive. I don’t know where that point is.

Conferences became the natural inheritors of the marketing of the TV rights. I don’t know when that line gets crossed, but I think that — certainly if the Big Ten and the SEC combined, which I’ve never heard any discussion of — I don’t think there’s any doubt that would cross the line. The question is what crosses the line beyond 16 because at a certain point, you’re gonna have more people in your group than you can even play.
 
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Part 3 of interview with Delany. Mentions what I've always said. ESPN isn't going to do anything to help the ACC contrary to what some think. Why would they pay more than they have to, especially when they're struggling with costs. The 2 strikes in Hollywood should tell you how much they will try to hold the line on costs.

Also mention of conferences maybe getting too big to a point where it might invite outside interference but no mention of what that point is. I don't know about that but that's why I've always mentioned there will always be more inclusion not less when it comes to the postseason. So if you're the ACC, B12 and probably the PAC the opportunity to make playoffs and achieve big goals will still be available. I was thinking there may be a different money split in the new CFP deal beyond 2025 but who knows maybe it'll be a little less uneven than I was thinking. Keep everyone appeased to a degree.



Some excerpts:

But don’t expect a network like ESPN to orchestrate moves such as Clemson, North Carolina or Florida State to the SEC while it owns the ACC’s rights through 2036.

Delany:
These networks already have control of these rights at 50 cents on the dollar. Why would they pay somebody more for something they already own?

As for the Big Ten and SEC, which have emerged as the nation’s most powerful conferences, Delany issued a cautionary note should either contemplate adding more spoils to the realignment war chest. While political factions have interfered in realignment, a dominant Big Ten or SEC could shift government officials from grandstanding to legitimate investigation.

Delany:
If I look at the SEC, I see that they should have pretty much everything that they need. I think the Big Ten probably has everything they need. I think the others may be threatened. But I would say if somebody goes beyond 16, whether it’s the Big Ten or SEC, they’ve got to ask them the question about size and scale and market power. The NCAA was found to have had market power in 1984 and the way they had their hold on college sports TV was ruled to be excessive. I don’t know where that point is.

Conferences became the natural inheritors of the marketing of the TV rights. I don’t know when that line gets crossed, but I think that — certainly if the Big Ten and the SEC combined, which I’ve never heard any discussion of — I don’t think there’s any doubt that would cross the line. The question is what crosses the line beyond 16 because at a certain point, you’re gonna have more people in your group than you can even play.
Delany's last answer makes a ton of sense. B1G and SEC don't want to be on the anti-trust radar so expansion may and probably will slow until the 2030s when the ACC GOR can finally be broken.
 
I have been surprised that BYU hasn't become more popular than it is.
I always felt it would be like Notre Dame is to Catholic college football fans to the Mormon college football fans..

As for the B-12 being a football power, only the B1G and SEC fit that bill now
Every other ( so called P-5 )conference is at the mercy of the B1G & SEC
if one or both of them decide to expand
The PAC might be the only one that has to fear the Big 12 and the B1G and SEC only have each other to fear.
But nither need worry because the ACC ,PAC and/or Vitamin Conference
can fill what they need if expansion is the goal
Remember that there are almost ten times as many Catholics as Mormons in the U.S. so Notre Dame has a much bigger population to appeal to. In addition, Notre Dame's winning tradition from Knute Rockne on gives it a cachet that BYU cannot match.
 
The b12 is a glorified C-USA…no matter how much they try and polish that turd…it is still a turd!
I listened to the Big 12 media days. Brett Yormark talks out of both sides of his mouth.
He talks about protecting his turf in the Texas market in one sentence. Then talks about being creative and holding basketball
Functions in New York City. To get access to the NY market for media and recruiting.
 
I wonder why SDSU isn't joining the Pac 12, and why SDSU thought it was jumping to another conference. Did the Pac-12, as the tweet indicates, say to SDSU, "we want to have a final media deal (which would tell us how much money we're going to get in toto) before we agree to share money with a newcomer?" As for the lack of a deal, the only explanation I can think of is that no bidder wants to pay what the Pac12 is willing to settle for, or that the only bidder that would is a bidder that would mostly stream games.
 
For the mockery:
Will PAC12 and ACC Games be pre-empted by the Twilight Zone Marathon and the Yule Log? 😂

Seriously, however, when looking at several streaming services besides YouTubeTV, at least one or two of them did not offer a CW channel.
I think he was the current head of the PAC12 executive committee.


Northwestern, now Stanford. Integrity seems to be a lost virtue in some of the "finer" academic institutions?
 
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