Pikiell Sucks

[fluoxetine]

They changed the name to first four from play in game for money reasons. They wanted to add them to the brackets and increase tv ratings. Coaches wanted credit for making the tournament. If you want to rave about a first four game which he was out coached in then ok! Great

Covid ! No tournament good team

Tournament 1 win and Pike BLEW the Houston game

First four - out coached Lost

Meltdown of epic proportions Nit loss

2nd to last in Big ten. Currently

You have to give Pikiell credit for essentially making the tournament in the Covid year. Obviously the tournament didn't happen but if you're going to evaluate someone based on "tournaments made" it's obviousy unfair to exclude a year where the tournament was cancelled based on events outside their control.

The first four is part of the tournament regardless of the reasons for creating it. Obviously the tournament is easier to make with 68 teams than 65, it was easier to make with 65 than 64, and it was easier to make with 64 than when it only had 48 teams. Doesn't matter. The tournament is the tournament.

 

[RUDivision]

If you want to diminish the tremendous regular season from the Covid year by using a blanket statement "there wasn't a tournament" then go ahead.

And yeah, that First Four was a classic game, proud of those guys (Ron, Geo, Caleb).. and Pike for getting RU there, as if you have been paying attention, RU was about as far from the First Four the prior 29 years as you could get

Not arguing the team was good. Just saying there was no tournament. Yes 29 years we have been bad. But you become a great program by not settling and continuing to demand excellence from your coach and team. Facts are we have gone backwards every year since that great 2020 team. Now, huge class coming in but Pike still needs to prove he can coach a competent offense and develop elite talent.

 

[RUDivision]

You have to give Pikiell credit for essentially making the tournament in the Covid year. Obviously the tournament didn't happen but if you're going to evaluate someone based on "tournaments made" it's obviousy unfair to exclude a year where the tournament was cancelled based on events outside their control.

The first four is part of the tournament regardless of the reasons for creating it. Obviously the tournament is easier to make with 68 teams than 65, it was easier to make with 65 than 64, and it was easier to make with 64 than when it only had 48 teams. Doesn't matter. The tournament is the tournament.

Ok fine give him credit! Now, the team and program has consistently gotten worse every year since 2020. Pike has to own the meltdown last year and the poor poor coaching job this year. He has the horses coming hopefully we take a big step in the right direction.

 

[fluoxetine]

Ok fine give him credit! Now, the team and program has consistently gotten worse every year since 2020. Pike has to own the meltdown last year and the poor poor coaching job this year. He has the horses coming hopefully we take a big step in the right direction.

I don't agree that we got worse every year since 2020 or that he's done a poor coaching job this year.

 

[RUDivision]

I don't agree that we got worse every year since 2020 or that he's done a poor coaching job this year.

Ok we statically finished worse each year as it releases to post season play!

Will agree to disagree about this season.
Opinion's can differ

 

[fluoxetine]

Ok we statically finished worse each year as it releases to post season play!

Well as you have correctly pointed out there was no tournament in 2020 so you can't compare the 2020 post season finish to 2021. We definitely finished worse in 2022 than 2021, and worse in 2023 than 2022. However, the 2022-23 team was a better team statistically than the 2021-22 team.

 

[RUDivision]

Well as you have correctly pointed out there was no tournament in 2020 so you can't compare the 2020 post season finish to 2021. We definitely finished worse in 2022 than 2021, and worse in 2023 than 2022. However, the 2022-23 team was a better team statistically than the 2021-22 team.

Ok , one team advanced further towards winning a championship than the other. The goal is to win the NCCA ! We were closer 2021/22 then 2022/23. So I don’t care what our KenPom or offensive and defensive stats were. One made the tournament the other did not. The only statistic that matters

 

[fluoxetine]

Ok , one team advanced further towards winning a championship than the other. The goal is to win the NCCA ! We were closer 2021/22 then 2022/23. So I don’t care what our KenPom or offensive and defensive stats were. One made the tournament the other did not. The only statistic that matters

No, I strongly disagree with this. Season long metrics are a much better way to guage progress than sorting by tournament finish. Making / not making the tournament is, for one thing, an arbitrary binary line. Then, assuming you have made it, you are basing your judgement of the season on the results of a couple games (if you're lucky!) in one single elimination tournament in which virtually anything can happen.

 

[RUDivision]

No, I strongly disagree with this. Season long metrics are a much better way to guage progress than sorting by tournament finish. Making / not making the tournament is, for one thing, an arbitrary binary line. Then, assuming you have made it, you are basing your judgement of the season on the results of a couple games (if you're lucky!) in one single elimination tournament in which virtually anything can happen.

Ok

 

[shields]

The dentist sucks!

 

[bitnez]

Pike hasn’t been his best this year. Most of it is roster driven — constantly searching for the correct combo. I think we would’ve been better off sticking with 7-8 guys and letting them play through the mess. That said, until PSU, we had pretty much won every game we were supposed to (even if we lost just about every game we were supposed to). A lot of season left though. Let’s see if Michigan on the road helped this team develop some belief and trust.

 

[RUInsanity]

They changed the name to first four from play in game for money reasons. They wanted to add them to the brackets and increase tv ratings.

LOL. The entire tourney is about money and TV ratings.

 

[BuggsyRU]

This is 100% a war I would take.

Schiano has done far more, is more well known, and more successful than Pike.

Not to mention it’s a hill with basketball and a mountain with football, but I suppose that’s a different discussion.

How is Schiano more successful? In winning percentage? Nope!

In postseason play? Nope!

In head to head meetings against conference mates, and winning percentage in conference? Nope!

In recruiting? Has Schiano ever had a top two class?

By what measure are you saying he is more successful? That he is more well-known? 100% debatable even on that.

No one in their right mind would say Schiano has been more successful! Sorry man, but if you’re gonna go to war with your argument, it is going to be a bloody defeat for you.

 

[RUDivision]

LOL. The entire tourney is about money and TV ratings.

No doubt I am 100000000% in agreement! My point was specific to play in game and its rebranding! Tv ratings are still not great but prior to the rebranding the play in game was being beat by reruns of All in the family.

 

[fluoxetine]

No doubt I am 100000000% in agreement! My point was specific to play in game and its rebranding! Tv ratings are still not great but prior to the rebranding the play in game was being beat by reruns of All in the family.

That probably had little to do with branding and a lot to do with the fact that it was a game between two bad teams fighting for the right to get wrecked by the #1 seed.

 

[RUDivision]

That probably had little to do with branding and a lot to do with the fact that it was a game between two bad teams fighting for the right to get wrecked by the #1 seed.

Omg! Fluox. Since you love stats and binary vs non binary looks at basketball. What are defensive stats this year vs last? I saw recently someone posted were ranked 3rd this year??

 

[fluoxetine]

Omg! Fluox. Since you love stats and binary vs non binary looks at basketball. What are defensive stats this year vs last? I saw recently someone posted were ranked 3rd this year??

Currently #3 in adjusted defensive efficiency. Finished the year at #6 last year.

However the actual efficiency number was better last year. There is more scoring this year across the league.

 

[RUDivision]

Currently #3 in adjusted defensive efficiency. Finished the year at #6 last year.

However the actual efficiency number was better last year. There is more scoring this year across the league.

So we’re ranked higher currently this year vs last? I presume you watch all the games. With out looking which team was/is better defensively?? Hint: it’s not even close.

 

[fluoxetine]

So we’re ranked higher currently this year vs last? I presume you watch all the games. With out looking which team was/is better defensively?? Hint: it’s not even close.

Depends. If I recall correctly we were #3 last year before falling towards the end of the season.

Also, as I mentioned, last years team actually had a better number, but a worse ranking. So I guess the answer is that (averaged across the whole season) last years team was a little bit better at preventing points but there were more teams that were similarly good.

 

[The RUT]

How is Schiano more successful? In winning percentage? Nope!

In postseason play? Nope!

In head to head meetings against conference mates, and winning percentage in conference? Nope!

In recruiting? Has Schiano ever had a top two class?

By what measure are you saying he is more successful? That he is more well-known? 100% debatable even on that.

No one in their right mind would say Schiano has been more successful! Sorry man, but if you’re gonna go to war with your argument, it is going to be a bloody defeat for you.

Schiano is definitely more successful in post season play lol. How could you even argue against that?

Schiano also more successful in OOC play.

Taking the 2024 class in basketball and acting like that’s the norm is comical, it’s the exception (which I am grateful for FWIW).

In 2017 Pike lost to Stony Brook (lol) and Hartford (lol) in back to back games.

In 2018 he lost to Fordham lol.

2019 he lost to the Bonnies

2021 he lost to DePaul, Lafayette, and UMass

2022 he lost to Temple and a bad Seton Hall team at home

We don’t need to talk about 2023-2024.

Since Schiano has come back to RU he has not lost an OOC game.

And don’t act like those loses don’t matter because they’ve held the program back in a major way.

2021 was so bad that it required us to beat 4 straight ranked teams to be in the First Four as an 11 seed lol.

I wonder what the tone would be around here if the B1G had a down year in 2021 and RU didn’t have the chance to make it that season.

If we’re being honest, without Schiano we’re likely in the AAC and Pike isn’t even coaching here.

 

[RUDivision]

Depends. If I recall correctly we were #3 last year before falling towards the end of the season.

Also, as I mentioned, last years team actually had a better number, but a worse ranking. So I guess the answer is that (averaged across the whole season) last years team was a little bit better at preventing points but there were more teams that were similarly good.

So with out Caleb Mcconell we are better defensively or as you said it’s close? It’s not even close! Will just never agree on certain topics because you want to use statistics for everything. It’s ok I just don’t think that way. Recognize its importance but I also realize o can cut data infinite amount of times until I get the answer I want. All good!

 

[fluoxetine]

So with out Caleb Mcconell we are better defensively or as you said it’s close? It’s not even close! Will just never agree on certain topics because you want to use statistics for everything. It’s ok I just don’t think that way. Recognize its importance but I also realize o can cut data infinite amount of times until I get the answer I want. All good!

There was a period last season when we were playing the best defense I’ve ever seen, but it didn’t last the whole season.

I don’t know of a better way to measure defense than points given up per possession but if you’ve got one please enlighten me.

PS our current number would’ve put us at #14 last year. Which doesn’t make any particular point, it’s just interesting

 

[friar10]

Bottom line if Rutgers fired Pikell at the end of the season he would be at the top of every list of vacant jobs. Totally ridiculous to say he's not a good coach.

 

[BuggsyRU]

Schiano is definitely more successful in post season play lol. How could you even argue against that?

Schiano also more successful in OOC play.

Taking the 2024 class in basketball and acting like that’s the norm is comical, it’s the exception (which I am grateful for FWIW).

In 2017 Pike lost to Stony Brook (lol) and Hartford (lol) in back to back games.

In 2018 he lost to Fordham lol.

2019 he lost to the Bonnies

2021 he lost to DePaul, Lafayette, and UMass

2022 he lost to Temple and a bad Seton Hall team at home

We don’t need to talk about 2023-2024.

Since Schiano has come back to RU he has not lost an OOC game.

And don’t act like those loses don’t matter because they’ve held the program back in a major way.

2021 was so bad that it required us to beat 4 straight ranked teams to be in the First Four as an 11 seed lol.

I wonder what the tone would be around here if the B1G had a down year in 2021 and RU didn’t have the chance to make it that season.

If we’re being honest, without Schiano we’re likely in the AAC and Pike isn’t even coaching here.

You realize you just admitted Pike beat four ranked teams in a row hahaha. And got to the tournament, which is the equivalent of a major bowl game, something that Schiano has never been to.

And speaking of bad losses, Schiano has lost to 1A schools Villanova and New Hampshire in non conference

He also got killed by a terrible Buffalo team OOC.

Don’t even go there with the bad teams each coach has lost to, because you can’t win that battle.

 

[The RUT]

You realize you just admitted Pike beat four ranked teams in a row hahaha. And got to the tournament, which is the equivalent of a major bowl game, something that Schiano has never been to.

And speaking of bad losses, Schiano has lost to 1A schools Villanova and New Hampshire in non conference

He also got killed by a terrible Buffalo team OOC.

Don’t even go there with the bad teams each coach has lost to, because you can’t win that battle.

I thought GS1.0 didn’t count in this discussion. Convenient you want to talk GS1.0 to bring up the bad. Weird how that works.

Making the NCAA tournament as an 11 seed is the equivalent of a major bowl? LMAO.

This is the issue. You guys put way too much stock in the NCAAs.

Top half of your peers. That’s it. That’s all you need to do. It’s actually not as hard as you think, just because Rutgers neglected basketball for years doesn’t change that fact.

2024 is going to be very telling IMO.

 

[fluoxetine]

I thought GS1.0 didn’t count in this discussion. Convenient you want to talk GS1.0 to bring up the bad. Weird how that works.

Didn’t you say in your post we wouldn’t even be in the Big Ten without Schiano? As far as I remember we were already in the Big Ten when Schiano 2.0 was hired.

 

[The RUT]

Didn’t you say in your post we wouldn’t even be in the Big Ten without Schiano? As far as I remember we were already in the Big Ten when Schiano 2.0 was hired.

lol touche

Regardless, I stand by my belief that 2024 will be telling.

 

[fluoxetine]

lol touche

Regardless, I stand by my belief that 2024 will be telling.

I hope you’re right.

 

[RU#1fan]

Ok , one team advanced further towards winning a championship than the other. The goal is to win the NCCA ! We were closer 2021/22 then 2022/23. So I don’t care what our KenPom or offensive and defensive stats were. One made the tournament the other did not. The only statistic that matters

This.
Blowing that 10 point lead to Houston with 3 minutes to go still a head scratcher.

 

[BuggsyRU]

I thought GS1.0 didn’t count in this discussion. Convenient you want to talk GS1.0 to bring up the bad. Weird how that works.

Making the NCAA tournament as an 11 seed is the equivalent of a major bowl? LMAO.

This is the issue. You guys put way too much stock in the NCAAs.

Top half of your peers. That’s it. That’s all you need to do. It’s actually not as hard as you think, just because Rutgers neglected basketball for years doesn’t change that fact.

2024 is going to be very telling IMO.

Wait, why wouldn’t GS1 count? Did he not coach those games? How convenient of you to not count the bad times so as to make Schiano look better!

And making the tournament is FAR FAR harder than going to lame bowls that hand out bids to teams with 6-6 records, even sometimes 6-7 records… so yes an 11th seed in the tournament is like a New Year’s Day bowl game, something Schiano has never done but Pike has done multiple times.

 

[The RUT]

Wait, why wouldn’t GS1 count? Did he not coach those games? How convenient of you to not count the bad times so as to make Schiano look better!

And making the tournament is FAR FAR harder than going to lame bowls that hand out bids to teams with 6-6 records, even sometimes 6-7 records… so yes an 11th seed in the tournament is like a New Year’s Day bowl game, something Schiano has never done but Pike has done multiple times.

The entire GS vs SP discussion the SP people were saying GS1 didn’t count and they were simply comparing B1G vs B1G era. You jumped in late so must have missed that.

I would prefer to lean on GS1 to make my point considering far more of his success and consistency came in that time…

An 11th seed is the 44th to 47th best team.

There are 6 New Years games plus 4 playoff teams. (16 total teams)

A NYD bowl game equivalent would be a 4 seed or better in the NCAA tournament… (16 divided by 4).

 

[DC8690]

You think this was ugly…wait until the season after next.

Clueless

 

[fluoxetine]

The entire GS vs SP discussion the SP people were saying GS1 didn’t count and they were simply comparing B1G vs B1G era. You jumped in late so must have missed that.

I would prefer to lean on GS1 to make my point considering far more of his success and consistency came in that time…

An 11th seed is the 44th to 47th best team.

There are 6 New Years games plus 4 playoff teams. (16 total teams)

A NYD bowl game equivalent would be a 4 seed or better in the NCAA tournament… (16 divided by 4).

Making a bowl is easier than making the tournament but making a New Year’s bowl is harder than making the tournament.

 

[The RUT]

Making a bowl is easier than making the tournament but making a New Year’s bowl is harder than making the tournament.

It’s just not even close.

But again, I do think there’s too much stock in the NCAAs around here.

If you are a .500 in conference B1G team you are in the tournament most years. In other words, be average relative to your peers and you’re in.

I would agree that bowl game is easier if we didn’t have divisions in the B1G, which obviously is going away.

The fact that RU had Michigan, tOSU, and PSU on their schedule effectively means they had 9 games to get to 6 wins. Typically speaking in football the better team wins, that’s just how it is.

 

[fluoxetine]

It’s just not even close.

But again, I do think there’s too much stock in the NCAAs around here.

If you are a .500 in conference B1G team you are in the tournament most years. In other words, be average relative to your peers and you’re in.

I would agree that bowl game is easier if we didn’t have divisions in the B1G, which obviously is going away.

The fact that RU had Michigan, tOSU, and PSU on their schedule effectively means they had 9 games to get to 6 wins. Typically speaking in football the better team wins, that’s just how it is.

I mean I am talking more generally, not digging into a specific schedule or division. You only need to go .500 overall to make a bowl which can be accomplished by going 3-6 in conference (or even 1-6 in conference in the old Big East days)

 

[The RUT]

I mean I am talking more generally, not digging into a specific schedule or division. You only need to go .500 overall to make a bowl which can be accomplished by going 3-6 in conference (or even 1-6 in conference in the old Big East days)

I suppose, but you have to include context, at least in terms of this discussion. Football plays in a consistent top 2 division and there is no hiding.

Obviously doesn’t matter next season as divisions go away and it changes things quite a bit.

 

[Shelby65]

Bottom line if Rutgers fired Pikell at the end of the season he would be at the top of every list of vacant jobs. Totally ridiculous to say he's not a good coach.

This. And no other D1 program would have any interest in HCGS.

 

[Scangg]

Schiano is definitely more successful in post season play lol. How could you even argue against that?

Schiano also more successful in OOC play.

Taking the 2024 class in basketball and acting like that’s the norm is comical, it’s the exception (which I am grateful for FWIW).

In 2017 Pike lost to Stony Brook (lol) and Hartford (lol) in back to back games.

In 2018 he lost to Fordham lol.

2019 he lost to the Bonnies

2021 he lost to DePaul, Lafayette, and UMass

2022 he lost to Temple and a bad Seton Hall team at home

We don’t need to talk about 2023-2024.

Since Schiano has come back to RU he has not lost an OOC game.

And don’t act like those loses don’t matter because they’ve held the program back in a major way.

2021 was so bad that it required us to beat 4 straight ranked teams to be in the First Four as an 11 seed lol.

I wonder what the tone would be around here if the B1G had a down year in 2021 and RU didn’t have the chance to make it that season.

If we’re being honest, without Schiano we’re likely in the AAC and Pike isn’t even coaching here.

You can't discount Rutgers wins when they upset #1 ranked teams, beating 4 ranked teams in a row, earned the ranked reapers nickname bc you say upsets happen in bball so it's not as big of a deal.... then point to when Rutgers gets upset and say that is a big deal. You gotta pick one stance and be consistent

 

[fluoxetine]

You can't discount Rutgers wins when they upset #1 ranked teams, beating 4 ranked teams in a row, earned the ranked reapers nickname bc you say upsets happen in bball so it's not as big of a deal.... then point to when Rutgers gets upset and say that is a big deal. You gotta pick one stance and be consistent

He does this kind of sleight of hand all over the place lol. Not sure if it’s intentional or if he’s fooling himself..

For another example in basketball the extremely tough Big Ten is our “peers” and all we have to do is be average among our peers. However in football he complains that the division is too tough.

 

[LETSGORU91]

The ray of sunshine is Slappy and his team up there in Michigan sucks even worse.