Possible Coaching Options

[rutgersguy1]

Just read this thread. Sounds like nothing but a lot of really crappy options. JAGs

Stay the course. Flood's the right guy.

Well whatever happens with Flood happens with Flood like I said I just like talking about coaching prospects out there regardless of what our coaching situation is.

But I'm not going to just white wash all the names as crappy options. Everyone has to start somewhere and the big names of today weren't the big names of yesterday. Even picking up established names doesn't guarantee you anything. There are no guarantees save Saban/Meyer and a select few.

To me it's up to the AD at most schools (who aren't Texas/Michigan/OSU etc..) to identify who that next big name might be before he becomes that big name. I'm sure there will be a few out of all the ones mentioned that will become tomorrow's big names. Hopefully your AD is smart enough to pick that guy when necessary.

 

[wheezer]

Herman won't leave Houston for awhile until he gets a big time job.

You don't want Mike Stoops, terrible coach and is a psycho.

-------
Posters on the Rivals main board are drooling over Herman and think he is a can't miss coach, possibly the replacement for Ohio State, if Urban shocks the world and packs it in in a few years.

 

[rutgersguy1]

So providing a new coach with their desired salary is just the first step -
The will want to have a full - high quality staff - and that will mean no more "on the cheap" - top notch individuals in all of the key positions has a steep high price.

I don't remember all the figures but outside the SEC and a few elite schools here and there I don't think the salaries have to be as high as some may think. Money bags Nike school and national championship finalist Oregon pays Helfrich around 2M. Scott Frost his OC, I believe made 370K and that was bumped up to 400K. I think Tom Herman at OSU made 400-500K. Their new OC Ed Wariner who was co-OC/OL last year made about 350K but that was bumped up to 600K. We paid Friedgen 500K and IIRC offered Robb Smith 500K as well but Arkansas matched and he went there. I believe Arkansas has since raised his salary though. Point is I don't think we're so far out of the ball park except for the SEC and a few other elite names.

 

[KingHigh]

But I'm not going to just white wash all the names as crappy options. Everyone has to start somewhere and the big names of today weren't the big names of yesterday. Even picking up established names doesn't guarantee you anything. There are no guarantees save Saban/Meyer and a select few.

To me it's up to the AD at most schools (who aren't Texas/Michigan/OSU etc..) to identify who that next big name might be before he becomes that big name. I'm sure there will be a few out of all the ones mentioned that will become tomorrow's big names. Hopefully your AD is smart enough to pick that guy when necessary.

That's fine, I dont disagree with anything you said and the lines in bold are particularly true. I still believe Flood is that future big name, as you say. Flood was undexectedly and suddenly thrust into this role when GS left and at times he didnt look the part early on. I would have been fine replacing him after 2013, when it seemed he lost the whole team. Since then, he has really grown as a HC and I think there should be no doubt he is an asset to the program and University. Most of the names bandied about in this thread would represent a regression, or otherwise damaged goods.

 

[rutgersguy1]

That's fine, I dont disagree with anything you said and the lines in bold are particularly true. I still believe Flood is that future big name, as you say. Flood was undexectedly and suddenly thrust into this role when GS left and at times he didnt look the part early on. I would have been fine replacing him after 2013, when it seemed he lost the whole team. Since then, he has really grown as a HC and I think there should be no doubt he is an asset to the program and University. Most of the names bandied about in this thread would represent a regression, or otherwise damaged goods.

I may not be as high on him as you but I'm perfectly fine keeping him for now. If he were to be let go, that wouldn't bother me either. Whatever happens happens. I'm not really too far one way or the other as of now. End of season, next year if there is one could push me farther one direction or the other.

But I don't see all the names suggested as regression as you do but I can't guarantee you they're going to be good either. I liked last years "crop" better who have since been hired into the mid majors. There are no guarantees that you get an upgrade when replacing. It may be worse, it may be the same, it may be better. Again up to the AD to identify that guy who hopefully is better.

 

[RU4Real]

when considering any change - remember the full incremental price of a 'significant ' upgrade - remember that no coach who is generally viewed as having potential will willingly make the decision to put all of their belongings in a moving van and come to Rutgers unless they are convinced that virtually all of the necessary resources are going to be available.
So providing a new coach with their desired salary is just the first step -
The will want to have a full - high quality staff - and that will mean no more "on the cheap" - top notch individuals in all of the key positions has a steep high price.

This is the exact reason why the Dan Mullen deal fell through 2 years ago. We had the money for him, but didn't have the money he demanded for a staff.

Jebus, did Barchi really say those words....

Not those exact words, but the sentiment has been expressed repeatedly - the overall strategy is "no significant investment in football until the B1G revenue cleans up the balance sheet."

 

[KingHigh]

This is the exact reason why the Dan Mullen deal fell through 2 years ago. We had the money for him, but didn't have the money he demanded for a staff.



Not those exact words, but the sentiment has been expressed repeatedly - the overall strategy is "no significant investment in football until the B1G revenue cleans up the balance sheet."

That's swell.

 

[rutgersguy1]

That's swell.

Well you can look at it that way and it's not the most encouraging. But you can flip the coin over too. I and some others liked Mullen but there were many here saying what has he done at Miss St, not realizing it's Miss St and it's very tough to do what he did and this is before last season. So you can say, "hey JH did a good job identifying a guy who may not have been the biggest of names at the time but seems like a good coach.." and that's only reinforced after last year's performance. Will he repeat it again? Who knows but again it's Miss. St. So if the time comes maybe you can feel a little more optimistic that our AD can identify that next guy.

 

[RU4Real]

Mullen may well be a good coach, and could possibly be a good hire, but I would be worried that he has No Stain.

 

[KingHigh]

Mullen may well be a good coach, and could possibly be a good hire, but I would be worried that he has No Stain.

Stain costs a lot. What Flood lacks in stain, he has the affection of the players, the trust of the parents and the respect of the HS coaches. No coach will come in here and make everyone forget that we have no legendary history, a smaller stadium and less impressive amenities for both athletes and the general student population. And that's half the battle, unfortunately.

 

[tuffer76]

I think it's obvious that schools at RU's level will always have risk when hiring a new coach. At this price level and prestige level, the sure things just aren't usually available. As rutgersguy said, that's where an AD makes the money: sifting through the candidates to find the one who is most likely to succeed based on the criteria that you use to judge them. I have never been a Flood-lover, but certainly don't think he absolutely must be fired right now. I can see at the end of this season, if things don't go well on or off the field there may be enough reason to suggest bringing in a new coach.

If that were the case, then there are some names in this thread who I think will likely be successful coaches at the next level (which is our level). I think there are definitely coaches out there who will be very successful that I do not think are a cultural/geographic/style/price fit at Rutgers.

One situation that might be interesting to watch is Charlie Strong at Texas. They just fired Steve Patterson the AD. Whomever they hire as AD may want to bring in their own guy and should have plenty of talented coaches to choose from. Strong may be available after this year and I beet he's on the shortlist for Miami (if they finally can Golden). With some familiarity between Strong and Hermann, might he become a candidate should we have an opening? He'd certainly become my preferred candidate.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Oh wow I knew he was on the hot seat but I didn't realize they were going to fire him right away. I haven't seen any report that it actually happened yet but some are reporting it could be today. They owe him 5.6M on a contract out through 2019 as if it matters though.

I wouldn't inscribe Strong's tombstone yet, of course having the guy who hired him fired heat ups his seat a lot. Without Patterson I think even the end of this year is in play if he doesn't perform and definitely next year at the most. I don't know that we or anyone else could hire him though, I think that depends on what's in his contract. Does he have to sit out or would a salary a new school pays him reduce the amount Texas owes him. We don't know.

Regardless of that, I still think a good spread OC that may not be in his usual group of assistants has to be stressed by any AD that hires him. If I'm that AD I might have some names available that I would strongly suggest for him to choose from. I'm not usually for ADs meddling too much in the staff choice but sometimes it might be necessary. Without that I'd still be worried about him and his handling of offense without TB.

 

[tuffer76]

No doubt he has question marks, especially with the disaster his offenses have been. But I think he's gotten a bad rap at Texas where he was never a good fit. Guy can coach and I think he runs a good program and I think he'd be a hell of a recruiter in NJ/PA/MD/OH. Obvious questions about if we could hire him based on his contract and other factors, but it certainly bears watching.

 

[NorthNJRUFan]

Do the Fleck supporters know that his team just got their asses kicked all over the field by Georgia Southern? Please give it up. The guy is a poor mans James Franklin.

 

[RUinHouston59]

Assuming 2.5 is out max salary cap then Dino Babers. Rhule is a possibility to. I live Herman but think his buyout is huge. Can't see Schiano back but if he had huge money for an OC and left him alone.....

I don't believe Herman's buyout is that huge. UH's plan was to keep him for 2 years a booster I spoke to last night thinks he's gone at seasons end.

 

[rutgersguy1]

I don't believe Herman's buyout is that huge. UH's plan was to keep him for 2 years a booster I spoke to last night thinks he's gone at seasons end.

It's slightly over 2M if it's before 2018 I think. I posted the figure and time in one of these threads. That's probably more than most schools are willing to pay except for the top tier.

 

[jlariv9]

Stain costs a lot. What Flood lacks in stain, he has the affection of the players, the trust of the parents and the respect of the HS coaches. No coach will come in here and make everyone forget that we have no legendary history, a smaller stadium and less impressive amenities for both athletes and the general student population. And that's half the battle, unfortunately.

I disagree with this. I think the general perception of Rutgers is a mix between traditionally sad athletics programs and potential sleeping giant. You bring in a coach with "stain" as you call it, with energy, name recognition, and an expensive tab, it would show the rest of the country that Rutgers FINALLY means business. Our program stills wallows in mediocrity because of this constant lack of support from the state and administration. A lot of it had to do with lack of funds, but I believe that once we get vested in the B1G dollars and hopefully make some personnel changes administratively, the next step will be to get a dynamic coach. I don't care what you say about Flood as a man - and I agree with all of his virtuous attributes - he will NEVER be that next "big name" as described above...NEVER. To be great and get the great recruits, you need to start with a great coach and you need to pay him. If you do, the country will see that RU finally means business and a lot will be forgotten with success.

 

[RUinHouston59]

It's slightly over 2M if it's before 2018 I think. I posted the figure and time in one of these threads. That's probably more than most schools are willing to pay except for the top tier.

I thought I read it dropped yearly for the length of the contract. What really impressed me about Herman, was the staff he put together.

 

[rutgersguy1]

I thought I read it dropped yearly for the length of the contract. What really impressed me about Herman, was the staff he put together.

Not from the article I read. It drops in 2019 and 2020 but not before 2018.

Herman must pay $2.25 million if leaves for another job before Feb. 28, 2018, according to details obtained Thursday by the Houston Chronicle through a Freedom of Information Act request.

The buyout amount decreases to $1 million on Feb. 28, 2019, and to $500,000 on Feb. 29, 2020.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...ontract-has-expensive-buyout-rich-6034381.php

 

[RUinHouston59]

Not from the article I read. It drops in 2019 and 2020 but not before 2018.

Herman must pay $2.25 million if leaves for another job before Feb. 28, 2018, according to details obtained Thursday by the Houston Chronicle through a Freedom of Information Act request.

The buyout amount decreases to $1 million on Feb. 28, 2019, and to $500,000 on Feb. 29, 2020.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...ontract-has-expensive-buyout-rich-6034381.php

Nice find thanks.

 

[vkj91]

I thought I read it dropped yearly for the length of the contract. What really impressed me about Herman, was the staff he put together.

When you have the money it's easy to put a staff together. Coaches know Herman is an up and comer he's part of Urban's tree and Houston isn't cheap. It was the perfect place for him.

 

[ho26rus]

Maybe not everyone wishes to get a dose of sobriety when picking new coaches is so much fun

We all seem to be in love with assistants that we see as clearly having defined future
If you take someone off a top team the need to find a staff from day one and have never done it before
The assumption is made if can recruit at that school you can do it here
Some people are just talented assistants and don't have the range of expertise to manage 10 assistants
Not everyone is a politician.... fund raiser....... comfortable with AD/ university

I will not even go into the we cannot afford to discussion
But lets take a step back. During the 2013 decommits when we last played this game the choices were

Diaco
Hazell
Strong
Narduzzi

We will see with Pat but their two cream puff games are behind them and has 8 losable gaes on the slate
How have the other three done
It seems Rutgers has one shot. Keep probing an eventually someone comes along that wants to be here and has star quality. Then, and only then, can you go all in and replace the staff

We may have other coaching issues to deal with. The world is not blind and Panagos ability to recruit
has not gone unnoticed. You cannot afford to lose him. He needs to be paid more .You know we have very few coaches with proven recruiting skill and that also needs to be expanded on. Is Kyle up to replacing an ok coach to upgrade

Anyway... some thoughts

 

[BaseballFan913]

I like Flood...but my list would include:
a fired Al Golden
a fired Charlie Strong
Matt Rhule
Josh McDaniels

 

[RUinHouston59]

When you have the money it's easy to put a staff together. Coaches know Herman is an up and comer he's part of Urban's tree and Houston isn't cheap. It was the perfect place for him.

I totally agree it's a perfect spot for him, from his type of offence to the history of UoH
run and gun offences. Yes the money helped him get Orlando and Applewhite but some of the other hires were brilliant. A HS legend head coach, then almost every coach has deep ties to either TX,OK or LA, just real smart hires.

 

[vkj91]

I totally agree it's a perfect spot for him, from his type of offence to the history of UoH
run and gun offences. Yes the money helped him get Orlando and Applewhite but some of the other hires were brilliant. A HS legend head coach, then almost every coach has deep ties to either TX,OK or LA, just real smart hires.

Agree. That's funny that he's a genius but Flood is a buffoon for hiring a member of a legendary NJ football family in campinalle and barthel who has ties to every big NNJ program

 

[NickyNewark51]

That's swell.

A top FB program is a great investment into accelerating the process. Its like telling someone don't get married until you buy the house and become CEO. LOL...Talk about lack of vision.

 

[tuffer76]

I thought people were generally in favor of hiring Campanile - what hey question is lack of effect on our recruiting. I think, right or wrong, the thought process was that bringing in someone with ties like Campanile had would help us to keep some of NJ's best here at home. That hasn't exactly happened.

 

[NickyNewark51]

I disagree with this. I think the general perception of Rutgers is a mix between traditionally sad athletics programs and potential sleeping giant. You bring in a coach with "stain" as you call it, with energy, name recognition, and an expensive tab, it would show the rest of the country that Rutgers FINALLY means business. Our program stills wallows in mediocrity because of this constant lack of support from the state and administration. A lot of it had to do with lack of funds, but I believe that once we get vested in the B1G dollars and hopefully make some personnel changes administratively, the next step will be to get a dynamic coach. I don't care what you say about Flood as a man - and I agree with all of his virtuous attributes - he will NEVER be that next "big name" as described above...NEVER. To be great and get the great recruits, you need to start with a great coach and you need to pay him. If you do, the country will see that RU finally means business and a lot will be forgotten with success.

Look at the PR hit UConn took with the PP hire. Set them back 12 years perception wise.

 

[RUinHouston59]

Agree. That's funny that he's a genius but Flood is a buffoon for hiring a member of a legendary NJ football family in campinalle and barthel who has ties to every big NNJ program

For the record I never called Flood a buffoon.

 

[kjb32812]

I like Flood...but my list would include:
a fired Al Golden
a fired Charlie Strong
Matt Rhule
Josh McDaniels

 

[rutgersguy1]

Willie fritz. 144-67 at 3 schools.

Took a look to find out a little more about what kind of offense he runs. Sounds like a modified triple option out of the shotgun. I don't know how many ADs would take the shot on a coach using that type of offense.

Article from last year with a little bit about it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ll-inside-the-game-georgia-southern/18102361/

 

[vkj91]

Took a look to find out a little more about what kind of offense he runs. Sounds like a modified triple option out of the shotgun. I don't know how many ADs would take the shot on a coach using that type of offense.

Article from last year with a little bit about it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ll-inside-the-game-georgia-southern/18102361/

Why though? Guy wins everywhere he goes. Is it exciting or sexy? No. That being said it can beat teams with superior athletes because it lulls them to sleep. Look at GTech. Hell, look at navy with many more constraints than most schools yet they hang with ND and OSU. In NJ we could find 5 kids a year to run that offense. Would he be my first choice? No. That being said if budget is a concern I like guys who have done it in multiple places.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Why though? Guy wins everywhere he goes. Is it exciting or sexy? No. That being said it can beat teams with superior athletes because it lulls them to sleep. Look at GTech. Hell, look at navy with many more constraints than most schools yet they hang with ND and OSU. In NJ we could find 5 kids a year to run that offense. Would he be my first choice? No. That being said if budget is a concern I like guys who have done it in multiple places.

That's just it I don't know how many ADs would want to have a coach that runs an offense similar to GT. The academies are fine because they're at a recruiting disadvantage so they might have to be a little more creative in their tact. Plus it may not be the most exciting to watch for most fans of today so that's another reason I don't know if an AD would be inclined to go that route. Ultimately winning sells tickets but being "exciting/sexy" as you say never hurts.

For me I don't have a problem with the offense per se, but being so run based I'd be worried that it isn't one that can come back from larger deficits. It's fine when when you're even and very good when you're in front late but if you're behind.....tough to come back. If you can couple it with a very good D where you don't put yourself in that situation often...then maybe not so bad.

The winning in multiple places thing is something I've always repeated here over an over. Like I said change the faces and keep on winning then the more likely I'm to believe the coach is the constant and not a player or group of players. It doesn't even have to be at multiple locations, doing it at one place over a long period of time serves the same purpose due to normal player graduation.

 

[bitnez]

Hey if we're throwing names out there (just for fun), and we're not going to write a real check, I have two.

Pep Hamilton - Colts OC. Part of Harbaugh/Stanford tree. Unless Colts make it to the SB this year they are going to make a change. He will be available. Knows college, quarterbacks, likes power football and has Midwest ties which is good for. B1G. He's also young. I have thrown his name around for years.

Ryan Day - Eagles QB coach. Probably not ready but you never know. Played for Chip. Knows his system, Was OC at Temple for one year and coached at BC awhile. Actually, the more I think about it he likely is more of an OC (P5) or lower level HC at this point. But at only 35 wouldn't be surprised to see him move up soon

 

[derleider]

That's just it I don't know how many ADs would want to have a coach that runs an offense similar to GT. The academies are fine because they're at a recruiting disadvantage so they might have to be a little more creative in their tact. Plus it may not be the most exciting to watch for most fans of today so that's another reason I don't know if an AD would be inclined to go that route. Ultimately winning sells tickets but being "exciting/sexy" as you say never hurts.

For me I don't have a problem with the offense per se, but being so run based I'd be worried that it isn't one that can come back from larger deficits. It's fine when when you're even and very good when you're in front late but if you're behind.....tough to come back. If you can couple it with a very good D where you don't put yourself in that situation often...then maybe not so bad.

The winning in multiple places thing is something I've always repeated here over an over. Like I said change the faces and keep on winning then the more likely I'm to believe the coach is the constant and not a player or group of players. It doesn't even have to be at multiple locations, doing it at one place over a long period of time serves the same purpose due to normal player graduation.

The key is the great D./

You get to recruit underrecruited guys on offense - you dont need star talent (altough it helps) - you need guys who fit your system - and alot of them dont fit other systems, which is probably a plus for a team like RU that cant outrecruit the big boys for skill players.

On the flip side, that means you can focus more on recruiting a great defense. And so you can have a potent combination - think RU 2006 to the extreme. Yes - if you get behind, you are screwed. Which is why building a great defense is key.

 

[suggakane]

Not my list and not in any order, but a potential list of guys the school will look at:

P.J. Fleck
Matt Rhule
Greg Roman
Greg Schiano
Ben McDaniels

Anyone else? We need someone to come in and restore the discipline here. I was behind Flood 100% from Day 1 until now; this is just getting ridiculous.

relax francis

 

[tuffer76]

Love Willie Fritz and the system he runs. I think there is a decided schematic advantage to what he does and how teams have to change their approach on defense just because of his system. And he knows how to win. He's not my first choice in the next wave of coaches but I'd have him on my list.

 

[RURM85]

Here's an option: Head Coach Flood

 

[pd125]

Schiano's defense was always good and he saved money by being his own DC. He just needs a good OC.

 

[Hondo77]

EXACTLY what my buddy always said - he couldn't win in the Big East with all of those NFL players.....plus, GS guarded the biggest secret out of RU - Rice as an all purpose back.

Dean Smith was also the only person to hold Michael Jordan under 20 points per game for his career.