Progress for Griffiths
- Thread starter RUtix4me
- Start date
Is this the same RU72 that called Gavin a top 10 player in New Jersey?
Or the Richard that said he'd be a top 25 freshman?
Or the Richard that said he was a top 2 freshman in the Big Ten?
RU72 was as responsible as anyone for the runaway hype on Gavin Griffiths.
By more aggressive I think people mean to play D aggressively, go up for rebounds, etc. Have some dog in him.
As opposed to aggressively shooting. If anything he's too aggressive there!
You don’t have to perform like an all-star, or carry the team.
You should look like you belong
Did he hype Gavin, yes. Runaway hype nope. Even says in the last post he's not a one & done. He's been clear from the start that Gavin would be on the banks as a multi year player. But those posts in these forums where he tamps down those runaway expectations don't suit your narrative otherwise you'd have included them.
Yes, the latter is something I thought we'd start seeing over the final part of the season but that isn't looking good right now.
The comedy in this thread is really good and I actually think Gavin has not played to my own expectations for this year....but some perspective is actually worth discussing.
Here's Aundre Hyatt's 3rd year stats as a RS Sophomore at RU in the 2021-22 season.
12.8 MPG
35.3 FG %
27.3 3 PT %
63.4 FT%
2.8 RPG
4.3 PPG
Here's Mawot Mag and his sophomore year stats
11.7 MPG
41.3 FG %
23.5 3 PT%
69.6 FT%
2 RPG
3.0 PPG
Here's Gavins freshman year stats to date.
16.2 MPG
31.6 FG%
24.0 3 PT %
52.4 FT %
1.7 RPG
5.1 PPG
This is NOT giving Gavin a free pass, my expectations on his ability and length and his obvious shooting range, far exceed what we got from Hyatt in his 3rd year of CBB and Mag's 2nd year of CBB. Keep in mind, Mag had injuries that slowed him down both years and Hyatt has a knee issue that really never got right until last year.
The jumps that both Hyatt made in his 2nd year in the program, system and obviously improved physically and comfort level are obvious. The jump from frosh to sophomore year for Mag is not really a comparison because he played so few minutes as a freshman.
If Gavin finds a couple more 3s the rest of the season, his numbers then are well ahead of 2 players who are earning starting caliber minutes now. And the reason why it's best to look at both Hyatt and Mag, is because RU and Pike are essentially trying to blend the production of both players together, one with clear strengths on offense (Hyatt) and Mag (defense).
I'd like to see Gavin improve his FT shooting and overall handle, needs to be tighter. Sure, adding some strength, will help, but so will reps and confidence.
I stressed all off-season how critical it was for RU to move forward with a faster paced game and how the guards needed to help find space and shots for Gavin. I also stressed that schools like Iowa and Michigan were also the top schools recruiting Gavin and both programs play at a faster tempo and those teams would find more shot attempts in transition for a player like Gavin.
If you are going to try and play games in the high 50s or low 60s and slug it out....and ask Gavin to play elite defense like Mag or want to have Gavin in a Hyatt type role as a spot up shooter, then you're not going to get maximum value out of Griffiths.
The goal next year is to find another guard to help JWill and Simpson/Davis and create offense and defensive pressure and allow Dylan Harper to freelance on offense and playmake. As RU increases the tempo, Gavins numbers and productivity will jump quickly. But it has to come with games in the mid 70s in scoring, much faster pace, less emphasis on being 1st in defense and more offense, more tempo and more shots in transition.
Bailey is obviously better than Hyatt off the dribble......Harper is clearly a player that elevates the backcourt and gives Davis more time to develop. Gavin (to me) can easily find minutes on the floor IF, he picks up the defensive intensity, rebounding. Those should be givens going from Year 1 to Year 2......the better Gavin rebounds and defends, the more minutes he can play......more minutes means more shots, more 3s and more PPG.
Here's Aundre Hyatt's 3rd year stats as a RS Sophomore at RU in the 2021-22 season.
12.8 MPG
35.3 FG %
27.3 3 PT %
63.4 FT%
2.8 RPG
4.3 PPG
Here's Mawot Mag and his sophomore year stats
11.7 MPG
41.3 FG %
23.5 3 PT%
69.6 FT%
2 RPG
3.0 PPG
Here's Gavins freshman year stats to date.
16.2 MPG
31.6 FG%
24.0 3 PT %
52.4 FT %
1.7 RPG
5.1 PPG
This is NOT giving Gavin a free pass, my expectations on his ability and length and his obvious shooting range, far exceed what we got from Hyatt in his 3rd year of CBB and Mag's 2nd year of CBB. Keep in mind, Mag had injuries that slowed him down both years and Hyatt has a knee issue that really never got right until last year.
The jumps that both Hyatt made in his 2nd year in the program, system and obviously improved physically and comfort level are obvious. The jump from frosh to sophomore year for Mag is not really a comparison because he played so few minutes as a freshman.
If Gavin finds a couple more 3s the rest of the season, his numbers then are well ahead of 2 players who are earning starting caliber minutes now. And the reason why it's best to look at both Hyatt and Mag, is because RU and Pike are essentially trying to blend the production of both players together, one with clear strengths on offense (Hyatt) and Mag (defense).
I'd like to see Gavin improve his FT shooting and overall handle, needs to be tighter. Sure, adding some strength, will help, but so will reps and confidence.
I stressed all off-season how critical it was for RU to move forward with a faster paced game and how the guards needed to help find space and shots for Gavin. I also stressed that schools like Iowa and Michigan were also the top schools recruiting Gavin and both programs play at a faster tempo and those teams would find more shot attempts in transition for a player like Gavin.
If you are going to try and play games in the high 50s or low 60s and slug it out....and ask Gavin to play elite defense like Mag or want to have Gavin in a Hyatt type role as a spot up shooter, then you're not going to get maximum value out of Griffiths.
The goal next year is to find another guard to help JWill and Simpson/Davis and create offense and defensive pressure and allow Dylan Harper to freelance on offense and playmake. As RU increases the tempo, Gavins numbers and productivity will jump quickly. But it has to come with games in the mid 70s in scoring, much faster pace, less emphasis on being 1st in defense and more offense, more tempo and more shots in transition.
Bailey is obviously better than Hyatt off the dribble......Harper is clearly a player that elevates the backcourt and gives Davis more time to develop. Gavin (to me) can easily find minutes on the floor IF, he picks up the defensive intensity, rebounding. Those should be givens going from Year 1 to Year 2......the better Gavin rebounds and defends, the more minutes he can play......more minutes means more shots, more 3s and more PPG.
Step one, look like you belong on the court.
Show some awareness and basketball IQ
Quoting RU72 from the board isn't the great saving grace you seem to think.
Yes, he said Gavin was a multi year player. But that wasn't because he needed to develop (he actually never said why when asked for clarity). He was talking out both sides of his mouth.
In the same posts you want to quote (Gavin will be a multi year player) he also says Gavin will also be one of our leading scorers and a starter as a freshman.
Here is just a start since you asked.
Gavin is smooth with hops and has Steph Curry range. Hit 6 in a row at one juncture. Would be surprised if he isn't a starter by January.
Thread 'Gavin and Kante' https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/gavin-and-kante.259005/
I have seen Gavin many times. He is a great and creative shooter and will could be the third leading scorer after Cliff and Cam. Again,he is not a one or 2 and done player.
Post in thread 'Gavin Griffiths' https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/gavin-griffiths.260867/post-6296005
Yup. He's playing both sides and acting like he never thought Griffiths would be good.
Comments like yours above are fair and accurate.
But it’s comments wishing he would transfer, calling him a bust or a failure (you know, personal attacks) that just seem a bit much to me
The fact that he’s a d1 athlete (and particularly in the NIL era) these kids aren’t going to go criticism free
But, to me, at the end of the day he’s still an 18 year old kid, and most of us here are old enough to be his dad (or granddad) so the personal shots rub me the wrong way
Maybe just me
Sometimes the weight room and muscle development increase/help coordination.
Cranking out a shot is not what I meant by aggressiveness. Meant more about engaging into the play/flow and getting in a players face (physically/defensively). Something to help the focus. Frankly I would tell him go show something OTHER than hoisting up the first chance you get unless totally wide open.
He looks like a kid who’s never played basketball by himself or with his peers in the park without a coach or instructor in his presence watching his every move.
He seems to be stuck in quicksand. When was the last time he was able to beat someone off the dribble and how many times overall has he done it?
Why does he get ZERO open looks? Spencer, Mag, Hyatt, McConnell, Palm all got open looks.
Anytime he touches the ball, a contested shot is going up.
Why does he get ZERO open looks? Spencer, Mag, Hyatt, McConnell, Palm all got open looks.
Anytime he touches the ball, a contested shot is going up.
Why would you (as an opponent) give RUs top rated/signed recruit, open looks....??? Teams do scout, you know.
Spencer actually had fewer open looks and took far fewer shots. He only took ones that were wide open, which became fewer and fewer as teams scouted and understood what Spencer could or couldn't do well.
I don't know which is more painful....reading those quotes from RU72 or actually watching Gavin attempt to compete.
Unfortunately a lot of these kids get caught up in their rankings and have a hard time self assessing why they aren't playing. The kid has a great stroke. You can see that. But there is something else going on. He looks like a high school kid in awareness and compete level. The light should have gone on by now. Hopefully this offseason he can get it together. With Ace and Harper someone who can shoot the ball is going to get a lot of opportunities. Who knows though. Kids these days transfer on whims. I have zero intel but based on body language, I wouldn't be shocked if he transferred. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if anyone transfers ever now.
I get the impression coach wants GG to go in there and immediately knock down a three (or at least try). Everyone talked about his elite shooting and ability to get a quick shot off using his height/length. Pike puts him in to hoist a quick dagger and pump the team/crowd up imo. He wants him to shoot.
I'm seeing a young college kid who has yet to mature physically and mentally. As far as I recall, playing in CT, he wasn't on an elite team playing against elite talent. Fast forward after high school and the lack of elite competition, his physical/mental maturity, and the absolute rigors of facing grown men in the B1G is a recipe for disaster. The thought of dumping him to the curb by some at this point is laughable.
It was clear the couple of times that I saw Gavin play that he's never played a lot of defense and the quality of competition wasn't the strongest. Also he wasn't playing on a top AAU team either. All things our fans chose to overlook.
So he had to adjust to playing defense which also includes having to box out and rebound which he didn't really have to do in HS as well as adjust to being defended on shots.
He actually has a pretty good shot and range. His problem has been that the speed of the game in B1G play has forced him to rush his shots and make poor decisions. He's still learning what he needs to do on defense and rebounding. All of this has led to significant confidence issues. Yet we've seen some brief flashes on offensive. Year 2 should see improvement as things slow down and he's more comfortable on the floor. No different than what Cliff, Paul and others have gone through as they matured from Year 1 to Year 2.
BTW RU72 did provide some of what he thought Gavin needed to work on in a thread and people dismissed him. Don't think he bothered after that since we have too many fans that get blinded by stars and don't want to listen to the reality.
Everyone expected a little more from Gavin this year. But what no one saw coming was how dysfunctional our offense would be and the lack of leadership on the floor. Without being in Gavin's head we have no idea how much this played into his struggles.
Instead of attacking people over who said what, we should all be supporting Gavin right now because the team needs him to be an integral part of the offense next season whether he's starting or coming off the bench.
I wonder if @MiloTalon13 will ever come back and take the L on this one? He told us Gavin was going to 1) be the leading scorer averaging 15+ points a game, 2) play guard and even point guard, 3) be a one and done. All while being very smug laughing at any one who didn’t agree. 😂 He also deleted all his posts on Gavin once he realized he was wrong. Big time L.
Gavin will find his shot and roll on this team in the future. I’m not worried about that. Gavin was always a player that needed more development year 1 in any program.
Gavin will find his shot and roll on this team in the future. I’m not worried about that. Gavin was always a player that needed more development year 1 in any program.
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Everyone supports Gavin. You can feel it at the games, the RAC is begging for him to succeed.
Don't get a debate on a message board confused with "real life".
Park Friderichsen from Wake is also a skinny freshman guard. He shoots 40% from 3 and is a pretty reliable player during the stretch.
Yeah I can see that on the TV broadcasts, I'm specifically addressing the low IQ fans & mouth breathers here.
Who isn’t supporting Gav, who doesn’t want to see him massively succeed?
He comes in and puts up some of the worst minutes you’ve ever seen from a player at any level.
So you acknowledge it….
He comes in and puts up some of the worst minutes you’ve ever seen from a player at any level.
So you acknowledge it….
When you see what the kid at Iowa is doing and what Christie is doing at Minnesota, it's normal for us to think "why isn't my 4 star recruit doing that?"
Let him learn from the bench the rest of this year. Next year, he'll have a lot of "freshman" obstacles behind him and be better prepared mentally.
Let him learn from the bench the rest of this year. Next year, he'll have a lot of "freshman" obstacles behind him and be better prepared mentally.
There are still glimpses and you can see the potential.
He has improved defensively.
Couple of rebounds he was both quicker and jumped higher than most on the court.
Think it’s a strength thing for him to blossom.
Shooting is a combination of confidence, rushing it and a tad too far. I think he even rushes his free throws.
In past ages he might have been red shirted.
Still think he will be fine. However right now hurting us offensively.
We don’t beat NW if Oskar doesn’t hits threes. If we still want to win games and just not preparing for next year, Oskar might deserve more minutes.
He has improved defensively.
Couple of rebounds he was both quicker and jumped higher than most on the court.
Think it’s a strength thing for him to blossom.
Shooting is a combination of confidence, rushing it and a tad too far. I think he even rushes his free throws.
In past ages he might have been red shirted.
Still think he will be fine. However right now hurting us offensively.
We don’t beat NW if Oskar doesn’t hits threes. If we still want to win games and just not preparing for next year, Oskar might deserve more minutes.
It appears like the staff has given Gavin the green light. Gavin has to instinctively identify what is a good shot, and what isn’t. It appears he hasn’t made the distinction yet.
I have even seen the coaches yelling to him that he turned down a wide open three and then dribbled into a tougher missed shot.
It’s up to Gavin and the staff to identify the best opportunities for success at this point. Whether that is to be just a catch and shoot player for now, or try to post up smaller defenders, or other options, until pure good basketball instincts kick in.
I believe they will at some point.
I have even seen the coaches yelling to him that he turned down a wide open three and then dribbled into a tougher missed shot.
It’s up to Gavin and the staff to identify the best opportunities for success at this point. Whether that is to be just a catch and shoot player for now, or try to post up smaller defenders, or other options, until pure good basketball instincts kick in.
I believe they will at some point.
Badge of honor to me cited by KNN (know nothing Nick), you know the guy who said that UConn and Cam both "stink." But I digress. Many of my Gavin comments were derivative of the thought by 3 posters that he was a one or two and done. He wasn't and obviously isn't. Everytime I saw him in CT, he was superb offensively and didn't play D, because he didn't have to. Gavin has been a huge disappointment to me, but I support him because he is at Rutgers. He has no confidence now and I don't have the ability to opine if he is being misused, since I don't see him in practice every day. I do know that Steve remains very high on him and he is a very loyal kid who I am 99% certain would never enter the portal. I also know that Oskar is more valuable on the floor today than Gavin. I hope that he can thrive but probably not as a starter with Ace and Dylan. As to my NJ list,8 out of 9 is pretty darn good in Vegas. I would move Lee to number 1 today,remove Gavin and throw in Jeremiah at no. 5.
I think everyone got spoiled when he dropped 40+ in the early game.
As the competition improved, it was obvious he is not ready for the speed of the game.
The thing I was most surprised that is the maturity of Davis as he is no longer playing as a freshman.
Obviously players progress at different speeds.
As the competition improved, it was obvious he is not ready for the speed of the game.
The thing I was most surprised that is the maturity of Davis as he is no longer playing as a freshman.
Obviously players progress at different speeds.
You can't compare Mag and Griffiths. Mag was almost strictly a defensive player and rebounder when he first got here. His defense was much more valuable than what we have gotten from Gavin on offense. As to defense, he's a turnstile. He's gotten a little better but there is a lot of work to do there.
Have to ask how much of that is the coaches. Have they put him in a spot to be successful and take advantage of his skillset? If he is a spot up shooter that is killer from range, what has been done to get him those looks? Or are we trying to get him to play within the offense we run that is not aligned with his skillset?
Here's how Gavin started the year:
Princeton (2-4)
BU (9-15) - first home game
Bryant (2-11)
G'Town (5-9)
Howard (3-8)
St Pete's (2-5)
Illinois (3-8)
Wake (0-5) - first true road game
SHU (4-8) - road game
So, in the first 11 games he had one very good game (granted BU), one clunker (Wake), and the rest were all fine for a freshman. And, those other games include Princeton, Illinois, Wake and SHU, who are all headed to tournament or at least on the bubble.
Sorry, I'm not buying the kid can't play, isn't a P5 player, etc. And, yes, I concede that the kid needed a lot of work on defensive end, but the dip in his play screams lack of confidence.
Princeton (2-4)
BU (9-15) - first home game
Bryant (2-11)
G'Town (5-9)
Howard (3-8)
St Pete's (2-5)
Illinois (3-8)
Wake (0-5) - first true road game
SHU (4-8) - road game
So, in the first 11 games he had one very good game (granted BU), one clunker (Wake), and the rest were all fine for a freshman. And, those other games include Princeton, Illinois, Wake and SHU, who are all headed to tournament or at least on the bubble.
Sorry, I'm not buying the kid can't play, isn't a P5 player, etc. And, yes, I concede that the kid needed a lot of work on defensive end, but the dip in his play screams lack of confidence.
Many here continue to think his high school baskets will eventually translate into a great Rutgers player. Mind you, those high school baskets drop further into the sunset everyday.
Maybe this is a reach on my part. But perhaps in Pikiell's master plan, Griffiths isn't a fit for this year's team. But maybe next year, we'll play a different style that will better suit Griffiths as well as the newcomers.
Hyatt & Mag also had RHJ and Caleb in front of them so minutes were harder to come by even when they were playing well. Gavin had the opportunity to play significantly more minutes if the transition to college was a bit better.
Lol. Deleted his posts once he realized the enormity of his bust. Also, this weight room business is silly. Yes, some more muscle would be helpful, but if his game is primarily spot up shooting, it hardly matters. Just needs to move better on his feet on both ends of floor. Steph Curry was a twig at Davidson and dominated as a sharpshooter.
Xavian Lee should be no. 3 on that NJ college players list... Jeremiah Williams finish the season strong he would be high on that list as well. But I'm a fan of xavian Lee, let him get that Princeton degree then have him be a grad transfer in a couple years lol..
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