Progress for Griffiths

[RUInsanity]

What's interesting is that Purdue thought enough of Gavin to play offense/defense subbing and put their best on-ball defender against him in the 2nd half. Some are also missing the emotion in sports that leads to momentum....in this case a couple shots made by Gavin and how it lit a fuse in the team which lead to a momentum swing and a run in the 2nd half on both offense and defense.

The talent is there, most can see it but confidence can sometimes be a strange thing and just guessing that it will build from here. Even on D, the effort seems there even though he sometimes gets lost in the rotations. I urge those who have not done so to watch a replay.

 

[PhillyRU]

Was curious this morning and sorted the 504 players in high-major basketball who have played at least 40% of their team's minutes by Offensive Rating. There are, hilariously, four Rutgers players inside the bottom 34: Derek Simpson, Mawot Mag, Jamichael Davis and Gavin Griffiths, who ranks 502nd with an OR of 81.6.

So while I thought Griffiths looked really promising at times Sunday, I don't envy the position Pike has been in much of the year. Gavin has been really tough to play.

 

[Scangg]

Griffiths got beat over and over defensively in the first half as per usual

After he hit that 3 his confidence went up on both ends. He has shown some more willingness to fight for rebounds which is nice to see. Looked more confident and aggressive. Seemed less confused on defense so maybe it's starting to click. Still forced a couple bad shots. Badly airballed a mid range jumper and tried a somewhat ridiculous attempt over Edey

The signs of a breakout were there. If he can follow this game up with a true breakout performance against PSU, it would be massive for GG and the team. Scoring for RU has been so freaking painful. If GG can have a 2nd half of the season breakout and become a double digit scorer most nights, there are wins to be had

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Was curious this morning and sorted the 504 players in high-major basketball who have played at least 40% of their team's minutes by Offensive Rating. There are, hilariously, four Rutgers players inside the bottom 34: Derek Simpson, Mawot Mag, Jamichael Davis and Gavin Griffiths, who ranks 502nd with an OR of 81.6.

So while I thought Griffiths looked really promising at times Sunday, I don't envy the position Pike has been in much of the year. Gavin has been really tough to play.

I appreciate the sentiment I have heard from others that Gavin loves RU and he isn't going to transfer. I don't doubt at all the accuracy.......

With that being said Pike has to know if he wants to keep Gavin in the program it would be a good idea for him to finish the season feeling good about himself and his future role here.

I feel pretty confident with my current assessment that most nights it will be very difficult for him to produce enough on offense to make up for his defensive deficiencies. As for 2024-25 and beyond quite frankly I don't know.

 

[Joey Bacala]

More Gavin and absolutely no Oskar the rest of the season

THIS ^

 

[mildone]

GG was looking improved in that last game. He hit some shots w/some confidence. But even better, his understanding of team defense was much improved. Hopefully a trend. It looked like he's been working hard on it. Time will tell.

I have no concerns at all that he will get back to hitting shots. Even pure shooters go through slumps and not every freshman, no matter how talented, is going to be super-confident.

His D, OTOH, has been more of a concern to me. But his play in this last game was much improved in terms of his being quicker to recognize where he needs to be in relation to his teammates and playing more physically.

He still has some lateral movement issues on D, which could be a concern or could be a result of him possibly still growing... which sometimes makes tall kid athletes a bit uncoordinated and awkward while going through and for a bit after a growth spurt. But even that seemed somewhat improved.

I'm hoping the movement thing evaporates, but there's no way to know except time.

Oh, and you people bashing Oskar really suck. No offense intended. 😃

 

[rufeelinit]

RS? In basketball? Almost never happens without an injury.

How about Chol last year? Was he hurt or a development project?

 

[rufeelinit]

Fernandes transferred around April 21st. Cam & Paul left late May / early June, respectively. They were all supposed to be in the backcourt with Simpson & Davis. And no, Davis was never redshirting. He was getting minutes regardless to acclimate to the college level same as Simpson the year before.

Perhaps but if Cam and Paul stayed and we bring in Fernandes and retain Simpson, I am not sure Davis is getting the same minutes Simpson got the year before.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Was curious this morning and sorted the 504 players in high-major basketball who have played at least 40% of their team's minutes by Offensive Rating. There are, hilariously, four Rutgers players inside the bottom 34: Derek Simpson, Mawot Mag, Jamichael Davis and Gavin Griffiths, who ranks 502nd with an OR of 81.6.

So while I thought Griffiths looked really promising at times Sunday, I don't envy the position Pike has been in much of the year. Gavin has been really tough to play.

Good lord, that's 4 of our primary 10 rotation players.

Statistics and efficiency matter. Just repeating that for those on this board who like to discount them...

 

[AreYouNUTS]

How about Chol last year? Was he hurt or a development project?

Injured.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Perhaps but if Cam and Paul stayed and we bring in Fernandes and retain Simpson, I am not sure Davis is getting the same minutes Simpson got the year before.

Considering how Noah has played, I'd make a case that if Cam & Paul were here that Davis may be getting more of his minutes as the season went on.

 

[BillyC80]

GG was looking improved in that last game. He hit some shots w/some confidence. But even better, his understanding of team defense was much improved. Hopefully a trend. It looked like he's been working hard on it. Time will tell.

I have no concerns at all that he will get back to hitting shots. Even pure shooters go through slumps and not every freshman, no matter how talented, is going to be super-confident.

His D, OTOH, has been more of a concern to me. But his play in this last game was much improved in terms of his being quicker to recognize where he needs to be in relation to his teammates and playing more physically.

He still has some lateral movement issues on D, which could be a concern or could be a result of him possibly still growing... which sometimes makes tall kid athletes a bit uncoordinated and awkward while going through and for a bit after a growth spurt. But even that seemed somewhat improved.

I'm hoping the movement thing evaporates, but there's no way to know except time.

Oh, and you people bashing Oskar really suck. No offense intended. 😃

Gavin strikes me as the type, now that he knows what it will take, who will work his ass off between seasons to improve his strength and lateral quickness, while pushing himself to be more aggressive going forward.

I was glad to see him show some emotion in that Purdue game. I hope it continues (but without him directing it toward one of his teammates).

On the plus side, he’s got great length, an incredibly quick release (second only to Tominaga at Nebraska), outstanding instincts and timing on blocking shots, and what appears to be a willingness to learn, be coachable, and devote himself to the game.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Injured.

Bad D.

 

[Shelby65]

YES!! This lineup is exactly what we need and where we should be headed. I could easily swap Williams and Simpson though

No viable PG in that lineup. One of the three other guards needs to start else even more an iso game.

GG played better than before, but that’s not saying much. Needs to show consistency before displacing anyone.

 

[mildone]

Gavin strikes me as the type, now that he knows what it will take, who will work his ass off between seasons to improve his strength and lateral quickness, while pushing himself to be more aggressive going forward.

I was glad to see him show some emotion in that Purdue game. I hope it continues (but without him directing it toward one of his teammates).

On the plus side, he’s got great length, an incredibly quick release (second only to Tominaga at Nebraska), outstanding instincts and timing on blocking shots, and what appears to be a willingness to learn, be coachable, and devote himself to the game.

I think he's probably been working extremely hard right from the start. But finally experiencing some benefit will probably fuel him working even harder now.

Having said that, I expect him to continue to have ups and downs this season. I won't be beating up on him for his bad days. It happens to even the best of athletes. And progress in sports is rarely linear.

 

[mildone]

No viable PG in that lineup. One of the three other guards needs to start else even more an iso game.

GG played better than before, but that’s not saying much. Needs to show consistency before displacing anyone.

Consistency, while not necessarily rare, is uncommon in freshmen. I've adjusted expectations for him this year while he adjusts to all the changes in his life.

 

[PhillyRU]

Was curious this morning and sorted the 504 players in high-major basketball who have played at least 40% of their team's minutes by Offensive Rating. There are, hilariously, four Rutgers players inside the bottom 34: Derek Simpson, Mawot Mag, Jamichael Davis and Gavin Griffiths, who ranks 502nd with an OR of 81.6.

So while I thought Griffiths looked really promising at times Sunday, I don't envy the position Pike has been in much of the year. Gavin has been really tough to play.

Of note here: Maryland also has two players in the dreaded Rutgers zone, one of whom is DeShawn Harris-Smith, an even higher-rated recruit than Gavin. So while I think there has been some mismanagement by Pike, it’s more so that freshman, even high-caliber ones, just struggle sometimes.

 

[fluoxetine]

the dreaded Rutgers zone

🤣

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I appreciate the sentiment I have heard from others that Gavin loves RU and he isn't going to transfer. I don't doubt at all the accuracy.......

With that being said Pike has to know if he wants to keep Gavin in the program it would be a good idea for him to finish the season feeling good about himself and his future role here.

I feel pretty confident with my current assessment that most nights it will be very difficult for him to produce enough on offense to make up for his defensive deficiencies. As for 2024-25 and beyond quite frankly I don't know.

I'll ask the question in reverse, in thinking offense impacting other offensive players and scoring points, because I am curious to try and understand the logic.

How do we play Mag 26 to 29 minutes a game and we get very good to excellent defense, yet, his player still actually winds up scoring 8 to 15 PPG, but Mag winds up scoring no points.....

BUT

Griffiths actually impacts the offense because he creates shot attempts, when the defense actually has to account for him.....and the threat of him scoring (and spacing of the floor that defenses have to account for him...and he scores 8 to potentially 12 points and opponent he's guarding is still likely to score the same 8 to 15 PPG??

It's as if this watching of Gavin and treating him as he has to be an all B1G defensive player to earn your respect or somehow be worthy of even playing on the court applies here......but Mag, can literally disappear for 2 games without literally any offense and yet, we don't ask him to be a competent or competitive offensive threat??

I could easily argue that as many open shots Gavin could give up, that has a better chance of being corrected or reduced than asking Mag to become a B1G level complete offensive player.

Please keep in mind, most of the offense in the 2nd half, was generated by shots off the dribble by Hyatt, Davis, Gavin and Cliff, just taking the ball and deciding to attack and driving to the basket to score.....and a couple of out of bounds/set plays.

Should we hold Mag to the same reasonable offensive production standard, that you demand or require Gavin become on defense??

 

[fluoxetine]

As sad as this is, Mag is one of our top five players on OFFENSE. You're talking about a two game stretch.

 

[PhillyRU]

I'll ask the question in reverse, in thinking offense impacting other offensive players and scoring points, because I am curious to try and understand the logic.

How do we play Mag 26 to 29 minutes a game and we get very good to excellent defense, yet, his player still actually winds up scoring 8 to 15 PPG, but Mag winds up scoring no points.....

BUT

Griffiths actually impacts the offense because he creates shot attempts, when the defense actually has to account for him.....and the threat of him scoring (and spacing of the floor that defenses have to account for him...and he scores 8 to potentially 12 points and opponent he's guarding is still likely to score the same 8 to 15 PPG??

It's as if this watching of Gavin and treating him as he has to be an all B1G defensive player to earn your respect or somehow be worthy of even playing on the court applies here......but Mag, can literally disappear for 2 games without literally any offense and yet, we don't ask him to be a competent or competitive offensive threat??

I could easily argue that as many open shots Gavin could give up, that has a better chance of being corrected or reduced than asking Mag to become a B1G level complete offensive player.

Please keep in mind, most of the offense in the 2nd half, was generated by shots off the dribble by Hyatt, Davis, Gavin and Cliff, just taking the ball and deciding to attack and driving to the basket to score.....and a couple of out of bounds/set plays.

Should we hold Mag to the same reasonable offensive production standard, that you demand or require Gavin become on defense??

Sure but then you have the Caleb McConnell calculus, where if the guy comes in averaging 17 a game, and Mag holds him to 7, is that worth 10 points on the other end.

Besides, even if you discount Mag potentially reaggrivating his leg against Neb., he’s led us in scoring at times on better efficiency than GG

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Hawk…..we just dont agree about the damage gavin does on D.

Again it is about moving the offense needle more than the decline in the defense needle.

Pike isnt dumb, although he makes mistakes like you and I do. Gavin would be playing if he could help the team. It isnt like pike has good alternative options either

 

[Skull83]

Can't read through the whole thread right now, but one thing I noticed about Gavin at the game on Sunday was that his shots, even most of the ones he missed, looked really good. I know that's subjective, but the rotation on the ball, the arc, the speed, everything just looked smooth. I have no doubt that with increased confidence he is going to be a very good shooter.

 

[RUdonating]

This might be a dumb take for me, but do his goggles affect his defense or perhaps that eye injury he had? It really looks like he sometimes has no peripheral vision.

 

[Scangg]

I'll ask the question in reverse, in thinking offense impacting other offensive players and scoring points, because I am curious to try and understand the logic.

How do we play Mag 26 to 29 minutes a game and we get very good to excellent defense, yet, his player still actually winds up scoring 8 to 15 PPG, but Mag winds up scoring no points.....

BUT

Griffiths actually impacts the offense because he creates shot attempts, when the defense actually has to account for him.....and the threat of him scoring (and spacing of the floor that defenses have to account for him...and he scores 8 to potentially 12 points and opponent he's guarding is still likely to score the same 8 to 15 PPG??

It's as if this watching of Gavin and treating him as he has to be an all B1G defensive player to earn your respect or somehow be worthy of even playing on the court applies here......but Mag, can literally disappear for 2 games without literally any offense and yet, we don't ask him to be a competent or competitive offensive threat??

I could easily argue that as many open shots Gavin could give up, that has a better chance of being corrected or reduced than asking Mag to become a B1G level complete offensive player.

Please keep in mind, most of the offense in the 2nd half, was generated by shots off the dribble by Hyatt, Davis, Gavin and Cliff, just taking the ball and deciding to attack and driving to the basket to score.....and a couple of out of bounds/set plays.

Should we hold Mag to the same reasonable offensive production standard, that you demand or require Gavin become on defense??

Why would you think the guy Mag or Gavin would guard would score the same amount of points? That makes zero sense

 

[NickRU714]

Why would you think the guy Mag or Gavin would guard would score the same amount of points? That makes zero sense

True. The point remains though.

Only Gavin is held to the ridiculous standard:
If he gives up more points than he scores then he shouldn't be on the court. Shouldn't play at all.

A standard that nobody else is held to.
Mag scored 0pts. Under the same standard if he gave up just 1 basket - well he shouldn't be on the court. Cut his minutes.

The prevailing theme for many seems to be:

• "Completely lost on defense. Isn't contributing" = terrible and should be benched. Can't reward that with any minutes at all.
• "Completely lost on offense. Isn't contributing" = eh who cares. All that matters is defense. There shouldn't be an punishment for terrible offende.

It's funny how +/- isn't thrown out there as some important stat (it never had been) anymore now that Gavin isn't the worst on the team.

 

[Scangg]

No, not the same at all. It's just 2 bad games with Mag that eveyone is admitting were bad. Mag has played pretty well offensively overall especially compared to the rest of the roster's offensive production

People were demanding Gavin start or play more when he was struggling on both ends. It took weeks and weeks of bad play for most fans to stop calling for Gavin to play more and Gavin was absolutely horrific on defense while missing everything on offense

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Sure but then you have the Caleb McConnell calculus, where if the guy comes in averaging 17 a game, and Mag holds him to 7, is that worth 10 points on the other end.

Besides, even if you discount Mag potentially reaggrivating his leg against Neb., he’s led us in scoring at times on better efficiency than GG

Mag is good but he's being mixed and matched against different players at times. It's not as easy as it's being made out to be.

I guess the question is fans want things to suit whatever they want to believe. Under no circumstances, can the majority of the fanbase state for months that Mag is an essential player and in 2 separate games in the middle of the B1G season where he is playing and moving at full speed, suddenly say its OK to not score any points.

We have 5 to 8 threads a week bashing Simpson because his shooting percentages look like Jacob Youngs shooting percentages in his 1st 2 years at Texas and insane efficiency stuff, but we want to look the other way on Mag.

If he is the player that fans want to believe was the difference maker and reason we didn't play well, then the player doesn't get a free pass, when he's not creating any offensive stats and all we want to talk about is defense etc.

But if I say and repeat, Mag is still a developing player but nowhere near where a lot of fans want to chirp about, then it's a problem and it's an issue.

I am not holding Mag to that standard of what other fans keep insisting is the case, so I am not asking OR under any circumstances, expecting him to generate 10 to 12PPG. But if others insist he is the key to this year and next year, when does becoming a complete player, factor in??

I am of the belief that Gavin as a frosh who will get better and get stronger, has a better chance to be an average defender and plus scorer, before Mag ever becomes a go to scorer, I can pencil in for 10PPG and 5 to 6 boards. It's literally impossible to win in this type of league, thinking Mag is going to hold his starting caliber player, 8 to 9PPG under their scoring average and think that not scoring at least 8 to 10PPG averages out.

 

[Scangg]

Mag is good but he's being mixed and matched against different players at times. It's not as easy as it's being made out to be.

I guess the question is fans want things to suit whatever they want to believe. Under no circumstances, can the majority of the fanbase state for months that Mag is an essential player and in 2 separate games in the middle of the B1G season where he is playing and moving at full speed, suddenly say its OK to not score any points.

We have 5 to 8 threads a week bashing Simpson because his shooting percentages look like Jacob Youngs shooting percentages in his 1st 2 years at Texas and insane efficiency stuff, but we want to look the other way on Mag.

If he is the player that fans want to believe was the difference maker and reason we didn't play well, then the player doesn't get a free pass, when he's not creating any offensive stats and all we want to talk about is defense etc.

But if I say and repeat, Mag is still a developing player but nowhere near where a lot of fans want to chirp about, then it's a problem and it's an issue.

I am not holding Mag to that standard of what other fans keep insisting is the case, so I am not asking OR under any circumstances, expecting him to generate 10 to 12PPG. But if others insist he is the key to this year and next year, when does becoming a complete player, factor in??

I am of the belief that Gavin as a frosh who will get better and get stronger, has a better chance to be an average defender and plus scorer, before Mag ever becomes a go to scorer, I can pencil in for 10PPG and 5 to 6 boards. It's literally impossible to win in this type of league, thinking Mag is going to hold his starting caliber player, 8 to 9PPG under their scoring average and think that not scoring at least 8 to 10PPG averages out.

So now Mag needs to be a go to scorer?

 

[PhillyRU]

So now Mag needs to be a go to scorer?

Yea what lmao, we’ve seen what Mag is — a very good role player on a high-quality defensive team. I think he’s injured currently, but he’s also not allowed to be that role player right now because we are bad.

 

[kcg88]

Sorry did u watch the game

Your Jaden Jones comparison is over

You're right. Griffiths is 1 for his last 16. Jones never had a stretch that bad.

 

[Rutgers25]

You're right. Griffiths is 1 for his last 16. Jones never had a stretch that bad.

He’s moving to the straight up bust category. Not even playable. There are probably 150 freshmen that provide more than that every year. Shocking that the “experts” couldn’t see the total lack of toughness and intangibles. Hope that he can turn it around next year, but hard to be optimistic.

 

[RUskoolie]

Not every 4 or 5 star pans out. No one GAS about stars once you enter college. I am rooting for the kid but he has a ton of work to do this off-season. It's not just a weight room thing.

 

[Kbee3]

So who gets your vote for Best Freshman 2024 for Rutgers ?

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

I have seen enough. I am fine with him walking. Is there a chance he turns it around somewhere else? Sure. Though he could be just as much be a bust the rest of his career. One things for sure, he won't be seeing many minutes here next year. I hope he hits the portal and best of luck to him.

 

[Knight Owl]

So who gets your vote for Best Freshman 2024 for Rutgers ?

The mid-major guard.
GG needs time to adapt and should thrive in next years offense.

 

[RUJMM78]

So who gets your vote for Best Freshman 2024 for Rutgers ?

Davis

 

[Unionst]

Griffiths has plenty of potential. It may or may not be tapped ultimately. He’s got to find his inner toughness and confidence though. If this was the old days I would think by his junior year he might be a really good player for us. Now my guess is that he leaves and has success elsewhere.

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

The mid-major guard.
GG needs time to adapt and should thrive in next years offense.

Game is too fast for him. He would thrive on a DII or DIII.

 

[Scangg]

Scary that Griffiths has shown very little sign of figuring out how to score. Would love to see him put together a couple good games before the end of the season so there would be more of a reason to expect a year 2 breakout