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Progress for Griffiths

I'll put my track record up against yours any day.
What track record is that? If you're even mentioning Jaden Jones to Gavin Griffiths it's đź’©.

Jaden never played real minutes in B1G games. Gavin has played plenty of meaningful minutes already.

We saw Simpson go through the same issues last year and by season's end he was a different player.

Would you like your plate of crow served hot?
 
The simplest way to explain this is Purdue has 5 players that play Mags position that are more talented and skilled than Mag, so he's not going to have any advantages over anyone on the court.

And if he's reliant on being a spot up shooter and isn't a drive and score player off the dribble, points aren't going to be there. Add in those players I mentioned (Gillis, Furst, Colvin etc) and throw in Zach Edey and rebounds aren't going to be there.
Come on man……you wasted a bunch of words when he put up the same numbers that me and you did, zero and zero, that’s not acceptable. Give us 4 and 5 or something at least.
 
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That's not a short or long term lineup.

If we are thinking beyond this season, any lineup should have.

Simpson/Davis
Griffiths (he was finally slotted today as a SG on some sets)
Hyatt
Mag/Jeremiah Williams
Cliff

Once next year rolls around, insert Ace Bailey for Hyatt's shot attempts and Dylan at the other guard position and let Mag and/or Williams become the defensive stopper.

Sommerville steps in for Cliff and see what develops the rest of this season with Woolfolk.
I see regression with Wolf and that may be a huge problem next year without Cliff. Portal guy needed here.
 
Really happy for Gavin. That's 2 games in a row now he's played well. When he's played well, Pike has given him more minutes. He needs to continue being aggressive but you saw him developing before your eyes tonight. Watching him call for the ball was great. I think he's learning the effort on the defensive end transitions to the offensive end. Plus Purdue's small and unathletic guards helped.
 
What track record is that? If you're even mentioning Jaden Jones to Gavin Griffiths it's đź’©.

Jaden never played real minutes in B1G games. Gavin has played plenty of meaningful minutes already.

We saw Simpson go through the same issues last year and by season's end he was a different player.

Would you like your plate of crow served hot?
Simpson did NOt have problems remotely similar to Gavin.

Gavin is still getting minutes because of his recruiting ranking. His only good game so far is against Boston U game 2.

Gavin has shown a pulse. Gavin appears to be trying and giving effort. He still has been betond awful. Like Jaden his D is keeping him from playing
 
Was nice to see Griffiths be aggressive on both sides of the floor today. As soon as he hit the 3 with the RAC exploding then hitting his next shot, you could see his confidence sky rocket. The kid has a really nice shot, needs to bulk up and flat out get tougher.

If the light goes on and Griffiths can be our poor man’s Peyton Sandfort, providing shooting / scoring on our much challenged offensive team, would make a huge difference.
 
Really happy for Gavin. That's 2 games in a row now he's played well. When he's played well, Pike has given him more minutes. He needs to continue being aggressive but you saw him developing before your eyes tonight. Watching him call for the ball was great. I think he's learning the effort on the defensive end transitions to the offensive end. Plus Purdue's small and unathletic guards helped.
I liked what I saw from Gavin today, but 2 games in a row? Was non existent against Illinois and barely played
 
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Simpson did NOt have problems remotely similar to Gavin.

Gavin is still getting minutes because of his recruiting ranking. His only good game so far is against Boston U game 2.

Gavin has shown a pulse. Gavin appears to be trying and giving effort. He still has been betond awful. Like Jaden his D is keeping him from playing

you know who was awful today...MAG...as bad as any Gavin game this year and its been two in a row.

I like Mag, I am just saying.
 
Simpson did NOt have problems remotely similar to Gavin.

Gavin is still getting minutes because of his recruiting ranking. His only good game so far is against Boston U game 2.

Gavin has shown a pulse. Gavin appears to be trying and giving effort. He still has been betond awful. Like Jaden his D is keeping him from playing
Both have gone through stretches as true freshman in the 1st half of the B1G schedule (Jan. games) where they didn't play much because their play was not good. Doesn't have to the same problems.

Derek worked through his issues and gained the trust of the staff and saw more minutes over the 2nd half of the season. Gavin is hopefully on the same path.

And no, if it was all about his recruit ranking he would be playing 20 minutes every night, so can that bullshit.
 
you know who was awful today...MAG...as bad as any Gavin game this year and its been two in a row.

I like Mag, I am just saying.
Not remotely close to having the negative impact Gavin has had.

No doubt doing nothing hurts. Being an atrocious defender has the potential to do much more damage
 
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Both have gone through stretches as true freshman in the 1st half of the B1G schedule (Jan. games) where they didn't play much because their play was not good. Doesn't have to the same problems.

Derek worked through his issues and gained the trust of the staff and saw more minutes over the 2nd half of the season. Gavin is hopefully on the same path.

And no, if it was all about his recruit ranking he would be playing 20 minutes every night, so can that bullshit.
He would have had 4-5 DNPs. Coach has been forcing 4-5 minute stretches to check the box. He has been playing Oskar. That is your answer
 
What track record is that? If you're even mentioning Jaden Jones to Gavin Griffiths it's đź’©.

Jaden never played real minutes in B1G games. Gavin has played plenty of meaningful minutes already.

We saw Simpson go through the same issues last year and by season's end he was a different player.

Would you like your plate of crow served hot?
1. Jaden Jones was on a team with Ron Harper, Geo Baker, Paul Mulcahy, Caleb McConnell, and Mawot Mag. That team had real players. You think Griffiths sniffs the floor on that year's team?
2. I do think Griffiths has a better work ethic/desire to improve. That was not part of the comparison. My original post was "Jaden Jones vibes" not "Jaden Jones clone."
3. Derek Simpson is not a winning Big Ten basketball player so I don't think a comparison to him helps your case.
4. Griffiths has underperformed every single preseason expectation, mine included. It's just that I was able to see it in game one while many others lived in denial. His season-long offensive rating is 81.5. Dude had scored 11 points since the calendar flipped to 2023 before today and a 3-11 day with still-bad defense is supposed to change my mind. Not gonna happen.

The point of the comparison was always: here is a player who is supposed to be a knockdown shooter and will help our offense and play a major role as a freshman, but who very clearly does not have the basketball IQ, physicality (or willingness to use it, in Jones' case), or defensive acumen to stay on the floor for a team that has designs on winning games.

We may well be at the point where we're throwing in the towel and Griffiths plays more because the staff is looking forward to next year. That's totally fine and I think the right call, but absent any real production that is the obvious reason for any increased minutes and does not reflect any increased confidence in him from the coaches.
 
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I think the cause for optimism lies beyond the stat sheet. Gavin's has length, a quick/high release, and he was confidently taking and sometimes making shots that no one else on the team can. He flashed gamebreaking stuff today.
 
1. Jaden Jones was on a team with Ron Harper, Geo Baker, Paul Mulcahy, Caleb McConnell, and Mawot Mag. That team had real players. You think Griffiths sniffs the floor on that year's team?
2. I do think Griffiths has a better work ethic/desire to improve. That was not part of the comparison. My original post was "Jaden Jones vibes" not "Jaden Jones clone."
3. Derek Simpson is not a winning Big Ten basketball player so I don't think a comparison to him helps your case.
4. Griffiths has underperformed every single preseason expectation, mine included. It's just that I was able to see it in game one while many others lived in denial. His season-long offensive rating is 81.5. Dude had scored 11 points since the calendar flipped to 2023 before today and a 3-11 day with still-bad defense is supposed to change my mind. Not gonna happen.

The point of the comparison was always: here is a player who is supposed to be a knockdown shooter and will help our offense and play a major role as a freshman, but who very clearly does not have the basketball IQ, physicality (or willingness to use it, in Jones' case), or defensive acumen to stay on the floor for a team that has designs on winning games.

We may well be at the point where we're throwing in the towel and Griffiths plays more because the staff is looking forward to next year. That's totally fine and I think the right call, but absent any real production that is the obvious reason for any increased minutes and does not reflect any increased confidence in him from the coaches.

It would have been a good idea to stop with the Jaden Jones / Gavin Griffiths comparison the first time you made it.

There isn’t a comparison and it’s a disservice to Gavin by even putting him in the same breath as Jaden.

Gavin is slowly coming along. He needs minutes, experience and a good 15-20 lbs. Although he’s looked out of place at times - he tries. You can tell he’s got talent.

Jones was a complete bust who didn’t try and basically only gave effort by chucking up shots in offense. There was nothing in Jaden Jones game that made you think he would put it together at any point.
 
1. Jaden Jones was on a team with Ron Harper, Geo Baker, Paul Mulcahy, Caleb McConnell, and Mawot Mag. That team had real players. You think Griffiths sniffs the floor on that year's team?
2. I do think Griffiths has a better work ethic/desire to improve. That was not part of the comparison. My original post was "Jaden Jones vibes" not "Jaden Jones clone."
3. Derek Simpson is not a winning Big Ten basketball player so I don't think a comparison to him helps your case.
4. Griffiths has underperformed every single preseason expectation, mine included. It's just that I was able to see it in game one while many others lived in denial. His season-long offensive rating is 81.5. Dude had scored 11 points since the calendar flipped to 2023 before today and a 3-11 day with still-bad defense is supposed to change my mind. Not gonna happen.

The point of the comparison was always: here is a player who is supposed to be a knockdown shooter and will help our offense and play a major role as a freshman, but who very clearly does not have the basketball IQ, physicality (or willingness to use it, in Jones' case), or defensive acumen to stay on the floor for a team that has designs on winning games.

We may well be at the point where we're throwing in the towel and Griffiths plays more because the staff is looking forward to next year. That's totally fine and I think the right call, but absent any real production that is the obvious reason for any increased minutes and does not reflect any increased confidence in him from the coaches.
This is laughable
 
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You see what you want to see. I see a guy who's shooting 39/27/52 (2P/3P/FT) and the shooting is the *best* part of his game.

I can't believe people are arguing this, honestly. He has fallen so far short of even the most conservative preseason expectation but I'm the idiot for noticing. Okay.

He has potential, that's true, and he seems to be more engaged than Jones (which again was not part of the comparison). But I got called out over and over for saying after the Princeton "oh shit, this guy can't stay on the floor for us if we want to win" and that's turned out to be 100% true. Now, it turns out that also applies to Noah, Oskar, and maybe a couple others but that doesn't mean anything as it relates to Griffiths.
 
Hero ball comment is a bunch of crap. Simpson had three assists and three rebounds and eight points. A solid game. JMike had the best game of his career and had all of one more assist than Simpson. So stop with the hero ball commentary. Simpson is quick enough that he does get himself open. He’s still only a sophomore. Geeze!

I liked how Gavin annoyed Loyer. Even more impressive was that Morton couldn’t stick with Gavin. Gavin was so close to breaking Morton’s ankles on separate two plays.
I like his confidence.
On TV, Simpson and Davis both looked good. Fernandes continues to be slow and small. Its like watching Old Uncle Jerry try to play ball with a bunch of much taller athletic 20 year olds. Painful. Very painful.
 
On TV, Simpson and Davis both looked good. Fernandes continues to be slow and small. Its like watching Old Uncle Jerry try to play ball with a bunch of much taller athletic 20 year olds. Painful. Very painful.
The problem is that playing combinations of Simpson and Davis or Fernandes just don't work because they are all too small and not skilled enough to overcome their lack of height. We have been spoiled by the run of nice sized guards who even if they were not great offensive guys held up well on the defensive guy. Again poor roster construction for this year.
 
The problem is that playing combinations of Simpson and Davis or Fernandes just don't work because they are all too small and not skilled enough to overcome their lack of height. We have been spoiled by the run of nice sized guards who even if they were not great offensive guys held up well on the defensive guy. Again poor roster construction for this year.
How is it poor roster construction when two guards left after the portal closed because the NCAA still allowed grad transfers to leave at will?
 
Who was the prinary point guard when Gavin was feeling it?

None of them.

Later in the gane Noah dribbles in to free throw line and Gavin is wide open……no pass.
Cliff got a GREAT feed from Gavin in the paint, drawing the double-team as Gavin's guy fell back to help, and leaving GG wide-open out on the right wing (which he loves). Cliff should've went back out to him but, instead, tried to dribble through the double-team and IIRC fumbled the ball out-of-bounds. I think - THINK - we were down 5 at the time? Maybe 6? Could've been a HUGE 3 right there if Cliff goes back to him. THE RAC was ready to EXPLODE at that point.
 
I think it's time to run Gavin and JMike out there as starters to get us ready for next year.
Agree with this wholeheartedly. Also time to say "Oskar. I luv ya' kid, and you've been exactly the type of kid I want in this program, but we've got to look to the future now."
 
Cliff got a GREAT feed from Gavin in the paint, drawing the double-team as Gavin's guy fell back to help, and leaving GG wide-open out on the right wing (which he loves). Cliff should've went back out to him but, instead, tried to dribble through the double-team and IIRC fumbled the ball out-of-bounds. I think - THINK - we were down 5 at the time? Maybe 6? Could've been a HUGE 3 right there if Cliff goes back to him. THE RAC was ready to EXPLODE at that point.
Glad you brought that up. Was screaming at the TV, “Give it back to Gavin!”
 
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How is it poor roster construction when two guards left after the portal closed because the NCAA still allowed grad transfers to leave at will?
Didn't Pike already agree to take Fernandes before it was clear that Paul was not coming back? IMO he has not worked out. Not sure what the thinking was with regard to Cam, Derek and Fernandes in the same backcourt. Was JMike a take based on his stand alone ability or as an accomodation to Ace for next year? I have no issue with the kid's effort and tenacity but again he is not bringing much to the roster that was not already there from a size and skill perspective. He may get better but I think most thought he would red-shirt this year.
 
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I think the cause for optimism lies beyond the stat sheet. Gavin's has length, a quick/high release, and he was confidently taking and sometimes making shots that no one else on the team can. He flashed gamebreaking stuff today.
Yea it was the little things for me more so than anything that shows up in his statline. He just looked a lot less deferential. He fought for rebounds, he called for the ball, when he had the ball he looked like he actually wanted it instead of looking to unload it as quickly as possible. There was one play in the first half where he came flying in to grab a defensive rebound and was trying to rip the ball away that really stood out to me because it was an aggressiveness I hadn’t seen from him before.

If he can continue to play with that same level of confidence and aggressiveness his game will start coming together.
 
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Didn't Pike already agree to take Fernandes before it was clear that Paul was not coming back? IMO he has not worked out. Not sure what the thinking was with regard to Cam, Derek and Fernandes in the same backcourt. Was JMike a take based on his stand alone ability or as an accomodation to Ace for next year? I have no issue with the kid's effort and tenacity but again he is not bringing much to the roster that was not already there from a size and skill perspective. He may get better but I think most thought he would red-shirt this year.
Noah was good at UMass. He's dramatically underperformed expectations this season.
 
Noah was good at UMass. He's dramatically underperformed expectations this season.
My thinking was that if we got everyone's 50th percentile outcome for all of our players we'd be a bubble team and it'd come down to which close games we won or lost. We've gotten a quite good outcome from Hyatt (85th percentile, maybe) and it's hard to come up with another player who is playing above my perceived baseline. I guess Austin Williams, but my baseline for a Hartford transfer coming off an achilles injury was very, very low.

Fernandes and Griffiths have been the biggest deviations I think. Cliff is way under on offense but his defense has been great. Simpson's actually gotten better in a lot of ways (but his horrific shooting is holding him back and raises questions about his future). Davis is giving about what we should expect from the #244 recruit. Mag missed more time than I thought and hasn't performed well overall but he had a nice run going before these past two games.

Fernandes and Griffiths though. Oh man. Fernandes' complete lack of tablesetting is such a major issue. At UMass he was among the A-10's leaders in assist rate. Even against good defenses he could put up strong numbers. 11 against us, 12 against top-100 St. Bonaventure, 9 against top-50 Davidson, 8 against top-60 North Texas. Against our top-100 teams this year, his season-high is 3. And his shooting is worse. Brutal.
 
Nice to see Gavin smiling at times on the court. Purdue was double teaming Gavin at times, he will need to recognize that sooner to dish off to who is open. At times, I wanted him to shoot more instead of dribbling/passing. Looking forward to see him ask for the ball more.
 
Didn't Pike already agree to take Fernandes before it was clear that Paul was not coming back? IMO he has not worked out. Not sure what the thinking was with regard to Cam, Derek and Fernandes in the same backcourt. Was JMike a take based on his stand alone ability or as an accomodation to Ace for next year? I have no issue with the kid's effort and tenacity but again he is not bringing much to the roster that was not already there from a size and skill perspective. He may get better but I think most thought he would red-shirt this year.
RS? In basketball? Almost never happens without an injury.
 
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Didn't Pike already agree to take Fernandes before it was clear that Paul was not coming back? IMO he has not worked out. Not sure what the thinking was with regard to Cam, Derek and Fernandes in the same backcourt. Was JMike a take based on his stand alone ability or as an accomodation to Ace for next year? I have no issue with the kid's effort and tenacity but again he is not bringing much to the roster that was not already there from a size and skill perspective. He may get better but I think most thought he would red-shirt this year.
Fernandes transferred around April 21st. Cam & Paul left late May / early June, respectively. They were all supposed to be in the backcourt with Simpson & Davis. And no, Davis was never redshirting. He was getting minutes regardless to acclimate to the college level same as Simpson the year before.
 
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