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Random Thoughts about Tonite and Going Forward.

goru7

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Dec 12, 2005
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1) just very disappointed in the lack of execution and focus tonight. Starting with Corey's faux pax, to turning the ball over unnecessarily and giving Wisconsin an early 11 point lead at 19-8 despite really good defense, to the failure to run the offense to get our bigs the ball on the block, to the failure to properly feed Mike Williams all night long or set him up enough with the opposite happening and not even getting shots up at all but turning it over; failing to stay on their guards for the dish out three, both Corey and Nigel culprits here, as our bigs could have handled both Hayes and Happ. Hayes got his 20 but Happ only 10, but Showalter 's 18 killed us tonite; our guards failing to finish at the rim and failing to head to the rim and instead of shooting should have to dish out for the three instead of chucking up an out of control shot ; some of the best defense we have seen causing shot clock violations or heaves at the buzzer wasted by the carelessness with the basketball; why Nigel and Corey but more Nigel did not put extra pressure on the guards forcing them into their offense later in the clock especially since Koenig is not a great ball handler.
2) The number of turnovers and particularly unforced turnovers in the last 4-5 games are killing us. We have to focus better. We did that for about 8 of the first 12 minutes of the second half with only 1 turnover, ran our offense, repeatedly setting up 3 point looks to get back in the game .
3) The offense does not run enough sets to get shots up on the rim to a guy in rhythm, nor do the guards dish it down low enough. We started the year making a conscious effort to hit our bigs in the post and we have gone away from that when we swing the ball. I don't know why and we have to get back to doing it. If CJ or Deshawn or Sa is doubled they have to look to dish out to the guards for a shot without going to the basket every time as well. Most of the board has been concerned about teams zoning us but I am concerned with our offense against man to man. Need more picks, double picks, back picks, and more plays for shots .
4). I think Coach has to change his starting lineup again. We are not getting much out of Issa or Jonathan since they have been coming off the bench. It is clear after 2 games Eugene should come off the bench since he has done nothing after starting last 2 games and was making an impact coming off the bench. Hard to not start Nigel and MIKE since I believe they deserve it. I think either MIKE or Nigel should come off the bench and put Issa back in the starting lineup assuming he is over his illness since he gives us the 3 point threat and was really trying hard on defense and his height can guard some of these bigger Big10 guards.
5) I think our 2 point guards are trying to do too much and not setting up the offense or being patient enough. We need more ball movement and ball reversal with either a feed to the post or and in rhythm jump shot. Really think Corey and Nigel can play a lot better especially Corey .
6). Mike Williams has been an absolute warrior this year. He is relentless on defense, on the backboards, and even had to guard Nigel Hayes a few possessions ,tonite. He is our main 3 point threat because you cannot rely on a freshman, Issa, and we have to get him even more looks. He started tonite and was our best player on the floor by a lot. I think Coach should insert him into the starting lineup and bring Nigel off the bench to spell Corey or until he wants to go to our 3 small guards.
7) We have played some of the best defense any Rutgers team has ever played but it will not be enough without scoring enough . However, the effort, defensive rotation, the hedging by the bigs, our guards going over screens instead of under, have been pretty much spectacular. One consistent problem is our guards are cheating to the post instead of staying on their man and after a fabulous defensive possession , the guards cannot recover and give up killer 3's. Corey and Nigel are the main culprits and that has to end .

Love talking about this team as I still am optimistic about how we will compete in conference despite our flaws and deficiencies , like missing uncontested layups and easy 5 foot shots, because I think Coach and this staff will tweak a few things to get us to improve .
 
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The OP makes all legitimate points, but playing at Wisconsin does remind me of the Mike Tyson quote that "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." RU feasted on cream puffs, which was a good thing for an inexperienced team with a new coaching staff. But, the elite teams of the Big 10 have much faster, taller, stronger and more athletic players than the Morgan State's of the world - not to mention better shooters. Now it will take some adjustments by the RU team and staff to be able to execute the same plays against the talent of the Big 10. Even with those adjustments, our lack of Big 10 talent (especially shooting) up and down the roster will have a negative impact for sure. RU finally has a top-level coaching staff and a few nice players, but now they need to RECRUIT big-time Big 10 talent in order to fill out the roster and rise up the conference standings. Based on early returns, I think Pikiell will get that done, but it won;t happen over night.
 
all great points goru7....Wisconsin and Seton Hall in the 2nd half exposed Rutgers especially on the offensive end. To win games against the middle to lower pack Big 10 schools RU is going to have to work very hard and pick their spots on the offensive end. Your points hit on what they need to do on offense but also defensively the 3 point defense must be improved. This team isnt good enough to win any games by just stepping onto the court.. We see they can play well in spurts but need a greater focus, its not necessarily an effort issue, seems like the start of 2nd halves has been an issue.
 
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completely agree goro7. many of those same observations. Losing by the spread against #14 has nothing to do with the points.

Team has somewhat reverted to more guard dribble, less movement and sense of purpose/focus on the offensive end.

Shoots are weak and why they are hitting soft off the front of the rim. Perhaps some of the line-up mixes are playing into the chemistry. My man CJ seems to be playing very soft with the ball in his hands lately too.

Its like they thought
"ok, here we go against the tough spot and freeze up/revert to past poor habits. "
 
RU showed they can compete on the defense end and rebounding. Our lack of outside shooters is our major weakness. Lack those 1 or 2 shooters who kill you when the defense plays 28 seconds of great defense and then they hit the 3 pointer. It only seems like Thiam and Williams are capable of catch and shoot, and Thiam is still a developing freshman.
 
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People keep talking about shooting, and yet we shot 39% from 3 to Wisconsins 28%, and lost by 20. That is not where our primary problems are right now.
 
People keep talking about shooting, and yet we shot 39% from 3 to Wisconsins 28%, and lost by 20. That is not where our primary problems are right now.

Yes it is. Williams was terrific yesterday but his 3 point percentage isn't going to be like that all year. He so far this year is the only guy we can rely on to make 3s. Now look at Wisc--they had like 5 guys who you could see were excellent 3 point shooters. Even if they aren't making them, we still have to cover them and that opens up the lane. Again you don't need to make 15 3-pointers every game, but if the threat of making them is real it makes your entire offense better.

Wisconsin can play defense against our big men by collapsing in the paint. If anyone other then Williams shoots it they're happy. A couple might go in here and there but they know we can't sustain any perimeter offense. We are very easy to defend.
 
Not sure screening to the ball on the perimeter nearly 100% of the time is the way to go. Would like to mix that up some to help get the guards/SFs the ball while cutting to the basket.

Need more off the ball movement when we drive the lane.

Need to fight for better position down low. Concentrating on getting the bball to the block will do no good if Gettys and co. Catch the ball 10 ft from the basket instead of less than 8 feet or closer.

Need to do the same on the defensive end regarding giving up position on the block. Post defense is great - push their guys out two more feet and they won't make those tough finishes.

Corey stills goes for steals. He leads the conference two years in a row so that's a give and take I'm willing to live with for now regarding his off ball defending.

Freeman is going to continue to be difficult offensively all year long. Hasnt found a mid range game. Even so he gets guys in the are on the pump fake but refuses to go all the way to the rim without spinning back - this is clearly a mental issue - he is afraid of trailing length from the taller players that guard him so he feels the need to put his back to them to create space; but moves back into help defense. I would like to see his face up game improve but I don't think it's going to happen. He gets the first step so often but won't go all the way to the rim and try to finish with contact.
 
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Yes it is. Williams was terrific yesterday but his 3 point percentage isn't going to be like that all year. He so far this year is the only guy we can rely on to make 3s. Now look at Wisc--they had like 5 guys who you could see were excellent 3 point shooters. Even if they aren't making them, we still have to cover them and that opens up the lane. Again you don't need to make 15 3-pointers every game, but if the threat of making them is real it makes your entire offense better.

Wisconsin can play defense against our big men by collapsing in the paint. If anyone other then Williams shoots it they're happy. A couple might go in here and there but they know we can't sustain any perimeter offense. We are very easy to defend.
We are looking at it different ways. Most teams could use more and better shooting, including ours. All I am saying is shooting is reason #4 or 5 why we lost the last game in particular.
 
We are looking at it different ways. Most teams could use more and better shooting, including ours. All I am saying is shooting is reason #4 or 5 why we lost the last game in particular.

Everyone wants better shooting. The problem is that we have virtually none. Low mid majors have better perimeter shooting than we do (we've already seen that early in the year). We are going to find it very difficult to win because of this.
 
Everyone wants better shooting. The problem is that we have virtually none. Low mid majors have better perimeter shooting than we do (we've already seen that early in the year). We are going to find it very difficult to win because of this.
Just disagree that we have "virtually none" and I think that there is a good chance that will be proven out by the final shooting percentages on the year and where they rank in the conference. Of course, they could end up pretty much last, but I think there is the potential for better than that. We'll see.
 
Well ... basically I do not think I agree with goru7 in terms of his disappointment.

At least in re the Wisconsin game (I have only watched part of the SHU game so far).

First, I think it has been goru7 (if not, then I abjectly apologize) who has been stating RU will, or might be able to, average 6+ made 3 pointers per game ... and that would then fuel RU's offense and might allow RU to really outperform may people's expectations. On this assumption that it is goru7 who has been posting that opinion, then I believe goru7 has had unreasonable expectations for the team, based on early season performances. While execution (especially turnovers) has been a problem, at least a part of this is TALENT, not merely execution. RU is simply short offensive talent. Effort can only carry a team so far against much more talented teams - especially talented teams with good fundamental execution skills also (like Wisconsin).

Second, let me address each of his points:

1) Lack of execution: Sanders' mistake was not lack of execution - it was a failing (not huge, but a failing) of responsibilities. RU DID feed Williams, getting the ball to him in a variety of ways (so goru7 is wrong about that). RU DID try to feed the post players in the post - but RU's post players hurried shots, or had them blocked ... also Wisconsin's interior defense was superb - they deserve credit for a significant portion of RU's offensive failings. Yes, RU's guards had trouble finishing at the rim. But is that poor execution, or good defense by Wisconsin? I would elan more towards good defense influencing the RU shots ... plus RU has had trouble finishing at the rim all season. This has been masked against lesser teams with great offensive rebounding. Yes, RU closed poorly at time (but not at other times) on 3-point shooters ... but this has been the case all season, frankly. This game was not substantially different - though actually I think RU has slightly improved its ability to close out on 3's, including in the Wisconsin game. But Wisconsin had great spacing on offense, and its post players both did well forcing RU to double, and passing out of the post when they were doubled - and to the correct shooter.

2) Turnovers: Yes, too many turnovers in the 1st half, turnovers that stifled RU's chances to score points. But RU has had issues with turnovers all season - this is no different that many other games. I am not sure why one would expect turnovers to DECLINE against teams with even better defense than RU has faced previously. And yes, RU limited turnovers in the 1st 10-12 minutes of the 2nd half - but RU has had sections of multiple turnovers in neary every game this year ... a good team makes RU pay for those turnovers.

3) I do not agree with goru7's 3rd point. I think RU tries very hard to get the ball to the post, and to players in position to score. And while I love Freeman, he is an undersized PF, and I knew he would have difficulties getting the ball into the basket against taller teams with some athleticism ... which is exactly what has happened the last 2 games. Even against lesser teams who could not block his shot Freeman would miss a lot of point blank shots - but make up for it with rebounding his own misses ... something that he cannot do facing players both taller than him, and equally athletic. I have said Freeman is going to have to take and MAKE the mid-range jumper to be a more effective offensive force for RU. He did TAKE those shots against Wisconsn - but did not make any of them (took at least 3 mid-range shots). Gettys, Diallo and Sa all took post shots, but mostly hurried them, or had them blocked - and maybe they hurried them for fear of having the shot blocked.

4) I think I do agree Thiam should start (or maybe Laurent), with Omoruyi off the bench - though I liked Thiam's improved offensive aggressiveness (he di not make a lot of those shots, but I like him trying - they will fall at some point). Johnson and Sanders should start at guard, the way it has happened lately, and Williams off the bench is very potent.

5) Yes, RU's PG's need to improve. Sanders was forcing things when he finally came in against Wisconsin. But I do not think the problem was him and Johnson not passing enough in this latest game: Wisconsin's half court defense left few obvious open offensive players, frankly. Johnson was ... awful ... in this game. Not only did he force shots, but he missed scoring opportunities he needed to make happen - and in the 2nd half in particular, was absolutely TERRIBLE getting back on defense, or defending the cuts to the basket by the man he was defending. And was removed for Dadika in the 2nd half after a particularly aggredious 4-5 possession stretch.

6) I remain happy to have Williams come off the bench when Johnson and Sanders are both healthy and available to start.

7) The defense has generally been very good - and night and day versus the last several years. And yes, Sanders and Johnson have been cheating to defend the post, making it tougher to get back to defend the 3. This has been the pattern all year ... perhaps they are following instructions, but with better post players, and better shooters on the wing, this is less effective?

Overall: I am not particularly disappointed (though I always prefer to celebrate a win). Against SHU, I did not think RU would win - but there was a chance if RU did a number of things (limit Carrington, get Delgado out of the game, get a little hot from 3 and play overall excellent defense ... RU did 2 of those 4 things, and therefore lost ... 3 of 4 and RU could have won, perhaps). But I wanted RU to be within 5 points of SHU with 56 minutes left in the game (i.e. to be competitive with a chance to win) - which is exactly what happened. I did not think RU had any realistic chance to beat Wisconsin - the best I felt we as fans could hope for was to be within 8-10 points with 8-10 minutes left in the game - to be competitive at least, with an outside chance if everything went right, to worry Wisconsin. And RU DID accomplish that: RU was 9 points down (53-44), WITH THE BALL, with about 10-11 minutes left in the game. And that was with almost no post game, Johnson playing poorly for the most part, Sanders not available for the 1st 10 minutes of the game due to disciplinary actions - and then not playing all that well anyway, and getting beaten on the boards for much of the game.
 
It is not just 3 point shooting though. We missed a ton of jump shots. Our shooting is killing us.

This is it in a nutshell. How many open midrange jump shots do we miss compared to other teams? It's maddening, but I also realize that it's a personnel issue.
 
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We were 7-8 for 3 from Nigel and Mike yesterday. What we need is our big men to be able to get a basket when we dish it inside. Gettys, Doorson, Diallo, Sa, Thiam. Whoever is the 4 or 5, we dump it inside and they have their backs to the basket and defender, I start to cringe. It becomes a careless charge call, or too much dribbling and it gets stolen, too much pivoting and it's a travel, or a turn and a sloppy hook shot that gets blocked or can't finish. That is the #1 area we need to work on right now. Need those points to win a game, get out of slumps, stop a run, etc.
 
Not sure screening to the ball on the perimeter nearly 100% of the time is the way to go. Would like to mix that up some to help get the guards/SFs the ball while cutting to the basket.

Need more off the ball movement when we drive the lane.

Need to fight for better position down low. Concentrating on getting the bball to the block will do no good if Gettys and co. Catch the ball 10 ft from the basket instead of less than 8 feet or closer.

Need to do the same on the defensive end regarding giving up position on the block. Post defense is great - push their guys out two more feet and they won't make those tough finishes.

Corey stills goes for steals. He leads the conference two years in a row so that's a give and take I'm willing to live with for now regarding his off ball defending.

Freeman is going to continue to be difficult offensively all year long. Hasnt found a mid range game. Even so he gets guys in the are on the pump fake but refuses to go all the way to the rim without spinning back - this is clearly a mental issue - he is afraid of trailing length from the taller players that guard him so he feels the need to put his back to them to create space; but moves back into help defense. I would like to see his face up game improve but I don't think it's going to happen. He gets the first step so often but won't go all the way to the rim and try to finish with contact.
You make excellent points and excellent observations . If we do what you described in each paragraph we will be better. That does not take more talent that takes better execution and patience. I think the biggest key is to get CJ and Shaquille on the block and closer to the basket and let them go for the soft hook or dish out to the guards and then crash the boards. We have been missing that the last few games.
 
RU showed they can compete on the defense end and rebounding. Our lack of outside shooters is our major weakness. Lack those 1 or 2 shooters who kill you when the defense plays 28 seconds of great defense and then they hit the 3 pointer. It only seems like Thiam and Williams are capable of catch and shoot, and Thiam is still a developing freshman.

Agreed, but it's not just outside three-point shooting. Guys like Freeman, Laurent, Gettys and Sa aren't even hitting the intermediate 8-10 ft. jumpers that are open.
 
I wont say disappointed for a number of reasons but you make valid points. The fact is that we we down 9 points with 8 minutes to go in the game. You could say Wisconsin shot whatever percentage they shot; but don't forget to give credit to our defense which was stellar at times. The turnovers were also part of some of things Wisconsin did on their defensive side of the ball.

Here's a few other points I will add.

1. We need Corey Sanders because of his ability to drive to the basket. But we need Corey to patiently wait for a pick so that his first move is more explosive. When he tries to dribble around three guys and gets wild, he loses control of driving to the basket and runs out of steam when he gets to put up the shot. I also hope he starts to get more calls as he gets hacked alot.

2. I want to see Eugene play more and drive to the hoop or go to the hoop to receive a pass and if he doesnt get the pass;go get the rebound. I think this kid could be a force. Sa has to also do that as well. No more 3's when we are down in games. If we have bigger leads and he wants to try it; that's fine.

3. Freeman- wasted a lot of opportunities with jump shots. That's not his game. He needs to drive and get rebounds.

4. Slow the pace- Focus on getting good shots and stop taking early wasted shots.

5. Get off CJ's back. He needs to get back his confidence down low. Let the kid play. He's good.
 
People keep talking about shooting, and yet we shot 39% from 3 to Wisconsins 28%, and lost by 20. That is not where our primary problems are right now.
Rutgers scored a grand total of 52 points which is a very big problem.Fans can parse stats all they want but it doesn't change the end result and the perception that Rutgers lacks shooters.
 
Well ... basically I do not think I agree with goru7 in terms of his disappointment.

At least in re the Wisconsin game (I have only watched part of the SHU game so far).

First, I think it has been goru7 (if not, then I abjectly apologize) who has been stating RU will, or might be able to, average 6+ made 3 pointers per game ... and that would then fuel RU's offense and might allow RU to really outperform may people's expectations. On this assumption that it is goru7 who has been posting that opinion, then I believe goru7 has had unreasonable expectations for the team, based on early season performances. While execution (especially turnovers) has been a problem, at least a part of this is TALENT, not merely execution. RU is simply short offensive talent. Effort can only carry a team so far against much more talented teams - especially talented teams with good fundamental execution skills also (like Wisconsin).

Second, let me address each of his points:

1) Lack of execution: Sanders' mistake was not lack of execution - it was a failing (not huge, but a failing) of responsibilities. RU DID feed Williams, getting the ball to him in a variety of ways (so goru7 is wrong about that). RU DID try to feed the post players in the post - but RU's post players hurried shots, or had them blocked ... also Wisconsin's interior defense was superb - they deserve credit for a significant portion of RU's offensive failings. Yes, RU's guards had trouble finishing at the rim. But is that poor execution, or good defense by Wisconsin? I would elan more towards good defense influencing the RU shots ... plus RU has had trouble finishing at the rim all season. This has been masked against lesser teams with great offensive rebounding. Yes, RU closed poorly at time (but not at other times) on 3-point shooters ... but this has been the case all season, frankly. This game was not substantially different - though actually I think RU has slightly improved its ability to close out on 3's, including in the Wisconsin game. But Wisconsin had great spacing on offense, and its post players both did well forcing RU to double, and passing out of the post when they were doubled - and to the correct shooter.

2) Turnovers: Yes, too many turnovers in the 1st half, turnovers that stifled RU's chances to score points. But RU has had issues with turnovers all season - this is no different that many other games. I am not sure why one would expect turnovers to DECLINE against teams with even better defense than RU has faced previously. And yes, RU limited turnovers in the 1st 10-12 minutes of the 2nd half - but RU has had sections of multiple turnovers in neary every game this year ... a good team makes RU pay for those turnovers.

3) I do not agree with goru7's 3rd point. I think RU tries very hard to get the ball to the post, and to players in position to score. And while I love Freeman, he is an undersized PF, and I knew he would have difficulties getting the ball into the basket against taller teams with some athleticism ... which is exactly what has happened the last 2 games. Even against lesser teams who could not block his shot Freeman would miss a lot of point blank shots - but make up for it with rebounding his own misses ... something that he cannot do facing players both taller than him, and equally athletic. I have said Freeman is going to have to take and MAKE the mid-range jumper to be a more effective offensive force for RU. He did TAKE those shots against Wisconsn - but did not make any of them (took at least 3 mid-range shots). Gettys, Diallo and Sa all took post shots, but mostly hurried them, or had them blocked - and maybe they hurried them for fear of having the shot blocked.

4) I think I do agree Thiam should start (or maybe Laurent), with Omoruyi off the bench - though I liked Thiam's improved offensive aggressiveness (he di not make a lot of those shots, but I like him trying - they will fall at some point). Johnson and Sanders should start at guard, the way it has happened lately, and Williams off the bench is very potent.

5) Yes, RU's PG's need to improve. Sanders was forcing things when he finally came in against Wisconsin. But I do not think the problem was him and Johnson not passing enough in this latest game: Wisconsin's half court defense left few obvious open offensive players, frankly. Johnson was ... awful ... in this game. Not only did he force shots, but he missed scoring opportunities he needed to make happen - and in the 2nd half in particular, was absolutely TERRIBLE getting back on defense, or defending the cuts to the basket by the man he was defending. And was removed for Dadika in the 2nd half after a particularly aggredious 4-5 possession stretch.

6) I remain happy to have Williams come off the bench when Johnson and Sanders are both healthy and available to start.

7) The defense has generally been very good - and night and day versus the last several years. And yes, Sanders and Johnson have been cheating to defend the post, making it tougher to get back to defend the 3. This has been the pattern all year ... perhaps they are following instructions, but with better post players, and better shooters on the wing, this is less effective?

Overall: I am not particularly disappointed (though I always prefer to celebrate a win). Against SHU, I did not think RU would win - but there was a chance if RU did a number of things (limit Carrington, get Delgado out of the game, get a little hot from 3 and play overall excellent defense ... RU did 2 of those 4 things, and therefore lost ... 3 of 4 and RU could have won, perhaps). But I wanted RU to be within 5 points of SHU with 56 minutes left in the game (i.e. to be competitive with a chance to win) - which is exactly what happened. I did not think RU had any realistic chance to beat Wisconsin - the best I felt we as fans could hope for was to be within 8-10 points with 8-10 minutes left in the game - to be competitive at least, with an outside chance if everything went right, to worry Wisconsin. And RU DID accomplish that: RU was 9 points down (53-44), WITH THE BALL, with about 10-11 minutes left in the game. And that was with almost no post game, Johnson playing poorly for the most part, Sanders not available for the 1st 10 minutes of the game due to disciplinary actions - and then not playing all that well anyway, and getting beaten on the boards for much of the game.
Well Jelly, sorry you were not disappointed but I clearly was. As Coach said in the post game presser, Wisconsin was already plenty good enough , we did not have to hand them the ball with the silly turnovers to go down 13-2 and 19-8. We made one run to get it to 22-16 in the first half and another to make it 53-44 with the ball in the second half. If we do not give away 10-12 points on turnovers, mostly careless , unfocused and unforced turnovers, the game plays out differently because our defense with the exception of leaving Showalter for late threes , was outstanding ..This game becomes closer in both halves and we are in striking distance not down 10-15.

Regarding my point and it was mine, that it is necessary to make 6 threes a game to give ourselves a chance to win in conference, this game shows what happens when you hit a few 3's. Mike hit 2 in the first half to cut the lead to 22-16 and MIKE and Nigel hit 2 a piece in the second half to cut it to 53-44 and made a huge difference . We had even more opportunities with Corey missing from the top of the key, Issa missing 2, 1 of them all alone on the right wing, and even Jake missed one all alone. I think we are more than capable of hitting 6 per game.
Our execution except for a short minute or 2 in the first half and for 8 minutes in the second was piss poor. The 2 point guards did not do anything to put our bigs in a position to score or run the offense patiently except for that stretch. They were out of control, especially Corey leaving his feet a number of times with no where to pass. Corey and Nigel can break down their men, but should not always look to score or put the ball up on the glass but they have to find Mike and Issa for Threes on dish outs. They hardly did that last night., especially since Mike was red hot. He made 4-5 and probably would have made 7-10 if given the opportunity.
Regarding turnovers, they are a huge problem. Just because we have been doing it most of the year, doesn't mean We cannot cut down on the number of unforced , careless ones we are committing. The turnovers to start the game put us in an unnecessary hole that we tried to climb out of all game. We must cut down on them regardless of the opponent. We had clear evidence of what can happen when we saw our second half when we cut it to 9 and only had 1 turnover for 12 minutes. .

One last response to our guards not closing out on their guards. There is very little need to dig down against most post players. However, Corey and Nigel's losing their man for a split second for the open 3 at the end of the shot clock was devastating yesterday and has been all year. That has to stop period. First, we do not need it. Second, it demoralizes the team, and Third, it makes the difference in the game. If Showalter does not hit those 8-11 points from 3 at the end of the shot clock , it makes yesterday's game that much tighter. The defense we are playing this year has been outstanding except for this area. Clean this up and we will be there with almost all of our conference mates down the stretch.
 
I was just responding to someone's comment that they were "very disappointed", as if this was a WTF loss.
Not meant like that at all(WTF Loss). But how it was a 10-15 point lead instead of a 5-9 point lead when we made our runs because we gave them 12 points on turnovers basically handing them the ball. With just a little better focus, this is a closer game. Yeah probably not a win, but an even bigger scare to Wisconsin than cutting it to 9 with 8 minutes to go and the ball.
 
Well Jelly, sorry you were not disappointed but I clearly was. As Coach said in the post game presser, Wisconsin was already plenty good enough , we did not have to hand them the ball with the silly turnovers to go down 13-2 and 19-8. We made one run to get it to 22-16 in the first half and another to make it 53-44 with the ball in the second half. If we do not give away 10-12 points on turnovers, mostly careless , unfocused and unforced turnovers, the game plays out differently because our defense with the exception of leaving Showalter for late threes , was outstanding ..This game becomes closer in both halves and we are in striking distance not down 10-15.

Regarding my point and it was mine, that it is necessary to make 6 threes a game to give ourselves a chance to win in conference, this game shows what happens when you hit a few 3's. Mike hit 2 in the first half to cut the lead to 22-16 and MIKE and Nigel hit 2 a piece in the second half to cut it to 53-44 and made a huge difference . We had even more opportunities with Corey missing from the top of the key, Issa missing 2, 1 of them all alone on the right wing, and even Jake missed one all alone. I think we are more than capable of hitting 6 per game.
Our execution except for a short minute or 2 in the first half and for 8 minutes in the second was piss poor. The 2 point guards did not do anything to put our bigs in a position to score or run the offense patiently except for that stretch. They were out of control, especially Corey leaving his feet a number of times with no where to pass. Corey and Nigel can break down their men, but should not always look to score or put the ball up on the glass but they have to find Mike and Issa for Threes on dish outs. They hardly did that last night., especially since Mike was red hot. He made 4-5 and probably would have made 7-10 if given the opportunity.
Regarding turnovers, they are a huge problem. Just because we have been doing it most of the year, doesn't mean We cannot cut down on the number of unforced , careless ones we are committing. The turnovers to start the game put us in an unnecessary hole that we tried to climb out of all game. We must cut down on them regardless of the opponent. We had clear evidence of what can happen when we saw our second half when we cut it to 9 and only had 1 turnover for 12 minutes. .

One last response to our guards not closing out on their guards. There is very little need to dig down against most post players. However, Corey and Nigel's losing their man for a split second for the open 3 at the end of the shot clock was devastating yesterday and has been all year. That has to stop period. First, we do not need it. Second, it demoralizes the team, and Third, it makes the difference in the game. If Showalter does not hit those 8-11 points from 3 at the end of the shot clock , it makes yesterday's game that much tighter. The defense we are playing this year has been outstanding except for this area. Clean this up and we will be there with almost all of our conference mates down the stretch.

I understand what you said and meant in the 1st post of this thread, and again what you are saying now.

I just disagree with you.

The situation you are describing that allows RU to draw even closer and really scare Wisconsin is basically a perfect storm in RU's favor ... in other words, to really scare a really good Big Ten team on the road, RU needs EVERYTHING to go right for themselves (i.e. playing a perfect game, and maybe even a perfect game plus a little extra luck), PLUS RU needs the other team to make its own mistakes. Sure, in that case RU might have been within 2-4 points, or even have a real chance to win.

I simply cannot be disappointed just because RU is not PERFECT. I can wish and hope for perfection, but that is exceedingly rare. I choose, instead, to recognize the progress the team is making, especially in rebounding and defense, and that this progress will hopefully be reflected by winning more attainable games. I WOULD be disappointed at this stage if RU cannot find a way to win 15 games overall (4 in the Big Ten) ... and am moderately hopeful RU can find a way to win 16 games overall (5 conference wins).

By the way, having Williams and Johnson combine for 7-10 (not 7-8) 3-pointers in one game is as good as it likely gets - and unlikely to occur all that often. That, and 7-18 overall from 3 (one of RU's best 3-point performances), and RU STILL lost by 20 ... think about that. Without exceptional play by Williams, and very good 3-point shooting by Johnson, RU would have lost by 30+ points.

The bigger issue in this game was really:

No post play at all (and not from lack of effort, but from other issues, like foul trouble, or being outplayed): Freeman played just 15 minutes (largely due to foul trouble), and had 4 turnovers and just 3 rebounds. Gettys had just 11 minutes and just 1 rebound (mainly due to being outplayed - though he also had 1st half foul trouble) to go with his 4 points. Sa, Doorson and Diallo combined for 54 minutes ... and had just 4 points, 6 rebounds combined ... In fact, those 3, plus Gettys and Freeman, COMBINED had just 17 points and 10 rebounds, along with 9 turnovers - compared to Williams' 18 points and 8 rebounds, by himself. RU's 5 PF's and C's had just about as many turnovers as rebounds.

As far as Pikiell being disappointed ... well as coach, that is his right, and I would expect HIM to be disappointed. That is his job.
 
People, we simply do not have enough pure basketball talent to compete with the better teams in the B1G. That will hopefully change, but for now, we are what we are. Our PG will be outmatched by many PG's in the B1G. Our front court will be outmanned in many games. And as for winning games by maximizing our potential through coaching, just look around the league and find lots of great coaching staffs that can at least match ours. Izzo, Crean, Belein and their staffs--the list is long. For now, we are trying to soup up a low end Ford to race a Ferrari that has excellent and inventive mechanics and a skilled driver. Saw all the fanciful posts after our OOC run, and kind of figured people would start making unreasonable projections. Goes with being a fan, but rebuilding is a process. Look how the Timberwolves struggle with Wiggins, Karl Anthony Towns, Zack LaVine, Rubio, et al. They play well enough until late, but don't play well late. We know how that goes.
TL
 
On offense. Defensively we look like we can play with almost anyone. Our size underneath is very daunting--better than most teams.

This ... defensively, RU could still use a little more length in the back court (Johnson and Sanders are on the smaller size, though both have great athleticism to play good defense), and even Williams is not all that tall. Thiam, at 6'9", has great length - and appears to use it well on defense, which is a nice advantage, but when RU goes 3 guards without Thiam, RU's back court is fairly short.

But a 6'4" to 6'5" shooter would help both offensively and defensively.
 
Let's stop worrying about who starts. No one goes to practice and knows who deserves to start.

I trust Pikiell is fair and rewards hard work. The foundation is being built. I don't want to see the best 5 start as a default.
 
Starting is irrelevant. Minutes matter and Pikiell has said himself he cares more about who is finishing.
 
We have some players that can be + defenders that appear to have lost some focus the last few games. They need to refocus and get after it again.

In the B1G you don't get let off the hook when you are not 100% on point defensively.
 
This is a 57 point loss last year. I'm anything but disappointed.
You are correct. A year ago, once we got down 15-16 points in the first half, game would have been over. Two things are evident thus far in the Miami and Wisconsin losses: Coach makes adjustments (and quickly) when things are not going well; and team does not stop fighting to stay in game. While both were double digit losses, neither game was a gimme win for the victor.
 
And the team is coached.
Just to validate your comment.......

Do you notice that the coaching staff makes great use of timeouts? Last year the coach said things like "the team needed to work through adverse times" whereas when this coaching staff sees things heading south they call a timeout and make adjustments and help these kids out.
 
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