Rutgers taking HUGE hit in Football Ticket revenue Sarge article Details.

[Knightmoves]

Remember when Belichick jumped ship on the Jets? And that was after Cleveland fired him.

Yes I remember that. Belichick already had an offer in his back pocket as HC of the Pats when he left the Jets at the altar.

Many here are saying that Greg is no lock to resurrect RU FB and instead want an up and coming guy with HC experience who can put excitement into the program. At this point Greg is not an up and coming coach, more of a retread with a recent questionable employment history. I believe that it’s a bad fit for both parties.

 

[Mr_Twister]

It’s always something here. Determined to stay behind the curve. Never all in.

 

[Wolv RU]

Sadly that move was driven by the BOG and Admin refusing to pay anywhere near a competitive salary. Drunkie Dick McCormick was a lame duck as pres, so he wasn't gonna fight for anything. Pernetti was over a barrel in terms of hiring anyone given the putrid salary scale dictated to him.

Hobbs just raised $100 million with a string losing seasons. Why couldn't Pernetti raise $2 or 3 million for a coach with a string of winning seasons?

 

[retired711]

Hobbs just raised $100 million with a string losing seasons. Why couldn't Pernetti raise $2 or 3 million for a coach with a string of winning seasons?

As I think about it, I believe @MoobyCow and @DJ Spanky are correct that the "hold the recruits" rationale was not the exclusive reason for hiring Flood. But if I remember right, we didn't have much time and so only limited attention was given to other candidates. Raising a lot of money quickly would not have been that easy. Beside, as I remember it, there were flaws in all of the candidates that we thought about.

 

[DJ Spanky]

As I think about it, I believe @MoobyCow and @DJ Spanky are correct that the "hold the recruits" rationale was not the exclusive reason for hiring Flood. But if I remember right, we didn't have much time and so only limited attention was given to other candidates. Raising a lot of money quickly would not have been that easy. Beside, as I remember it, there were flaws in all of the candidates that we thought about.

Cristobal initially accepted, but then backed out. He was the first choice.

 

[MoobyCow]

As I think about it, I believe @MoobyCow and @DJ Spanky are correct that the "hold the recruits" rationale was not the exclusive reason for hiring Flood. But if I remember right, we didn't have much time and so only limited attention was given to other candidates. Raising a lot of money quickly would not have been that easy. Beside, as I remember it, there were flaws in all of the candidates that we thought about.

No doubt. There was also the whole "we're in a collapsing conference" business to think about. Lots of reasons we wound up with a bad choice there. Still, you could have given some guy at a lower level a shot for that money and had at least some chance that he would have been up for the job.

 

[Knightmoves]

Cristobal initially accepted, but then backed out. He was the first choice.

Glad we didn’t end up with Cristobal. Flood somehow seems like an upgrade.

 

[retired711]

Glad we didn’t end up with Cristobal. Flood somehow seems like an upgrade.

Cristobal now coaches the Oregon Ducks, which went 9-4 last year with five conference wins. They're certainly not playing our schedule, but you'd think Cristoboal would not be doing terribly here. Does anyone know why he backed out here? (I remember something about his wife not liking our area; too much cold weather, maybe?). I saw a quote that he loves being at Oregon.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Does anyone know why he backed out here? (I remember something about his wife not liking our area; too much cold weather, maybe?).

That was the cover story back then. I heard a while after that it was the money and the support.

 

[Wolv RU]

As I think about it, I believe @MoobyCow and @DJ Spanky are correct that the "hold the recruits" rationale was not the exclusive reason for hiring Flood. But if I remember right, we didn't have much time and so only limited attention was given to other candidates. Raising a lot of money quickly would not have been that easy. Beside, as I remember it, there were flaws in all of the candidates that we thought about.

Solution: make Flood interim and hire a coach in December with plenty of lead time.

I don't think it is necessary to make excuses for the past two football hires. They were bad choices. There were other options available.

 

[retired711]

That was the cover story back then. I heard a while after that it was the money and the support.

The cover story *might* have been right at least in part. After all, he went to Florida International University, which is near his native city of Miami, and which I would think would not have that much in the way of money to pay him and to support the program. And Rutgers, fresh on the heels of Schiano, would have been a substantially more prestigious job. OTOH, he was able to get his wife to move to Oregon, which is certainly very different in climate and sociology than Miami.

 

[Wolv RU]

Cristobal now coaches the Oregon Ducks, which went 9-4 last year with five conference wins. They're certainly not playing our schedule, but you'd think Cristoboal would not be doing terribly here. Does anyone know why he backed out here? (I remember something about his wife not liking our area; too much cold weather, maybe?). I saw a quote that he loves being at Oregon.

While he seems to be doing okay at Oregon, his tenure did not go well at FIU. He ended up being fired from there just 10 months after Rutgers almost hired him.

 

[retired711]

Solution: make Flood interim and hire a coach in December with plenty of lead time.

I don't think it is necessary to make excuses for the past two football hires. They were bad choices. There were other options available.

I don't know if "interim" would have solved the problem of keeping what was thought to be an excellent class. After all, players like to be assured that the coach who recruits them will stay. Wasn't that part of the argument for giving Ash an extension?

Flood turned out to be a very bad choice, but picking him sounded fairly rational at the time.

 

[JayRU09]

Publicly hiring an interim is a very bad idea. It's you as a school willingly losing out on a whole recruiting cycle.

Now with Flood we did that anyways, but still.

 

[DJ Spanky]

The cover story *might* have been right at least in part. After all, he went to Florida International University, which is near his native city of Miami, and which I would think would not have that much in the way of money to pay him and to support the program. And Rutgers, fresh on the heels of Schiano, would have been a substantially more prestigious job. OTOH, he was able to get his wife to move to Oregon, which is certainly very different in climate and sociology than Miami.

Well that might have been believable if he didn't then take the Alabama OL job for 4 years in 2013.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Flood turned out to be a very bad choice, but picking him sounded fairly rational at the time.

That's the thing: he'd already been an assistant head coach to Schiano for 4 years, so it seemed like a logical choice at the time.

 

[MoobyCow]

That's the thing: he'd already been an assistant head coach to Schiano for 4 years, so it seemed like a logical choice at the time.

He was a guy Schiano never thought could be a coordinator (got be be co-coordinator in name only, then demoted), so seems a stretch to think he could just step up and be HC. Never seemed logical to me. If a guy stays a position coach for years and years, there's a reason. Either he's found a level he is comfortable with, or he's not that good. Neither one is compatible with then becoming a HC.

I think Flood found a level he was comfortable with, and the amount of effort required to be a HC was never going to do.

 

[MADHAT1]

That's the thing: he'd already been an assistant head coach to Schiano for 4 years, so it seemed like a logical choice at the time.

logical in effort to keep recruits interested and keep cost down.
Don't think Flood was looked at by other P-5 programs as a possible HC, but RU gambled on him to keep from paying the salary they would have to pay someone else.
Should have hired Ash instead , he'd be gone by now [banana][roll]

 

[retired711]

While he seems to be doing okay at Oregon, his tenure did not go well at FIU. He ended up being fired from there just 10 months after Rutgers almost hired him.

I don't think that's true. Wilkipedia says he was coach for five years at FIU and took them to their first-ever bowl. He was eventually fired for having a poor record after that; the Wilkipedia article asserts that the firing was controversial. He then became an associate head coach at Alabama. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Cristobal

BTW, the article says he adores Joe Paterno.

 

[retired711]

Well that might have been believable if he didn't then take the Alabama OL job for 4 years in 2013.

And that makes sense because, for a Cuban-American, you would think that NJ would be more attractive than Tuscaloosa. Maybe the weather up here was the problem??

 

[rutgersguy1]

While he seems to be doing okay at Oregon, his tenure did not go well at FIU. He ended up being fired from there just 10 months after Rutgers almost hired him.

I wasn’t a fan of him then and still not now although he did do a stint at the Saban halfway house. He inherited a NFL qb and a top dc who has now left but lucky for him the qb came back for next year. They expect to compete for and win PAC 12 championships so we’ll how he does over time. He can recruit but so does USC and we see how they’ve done as of late.

 

[rutgersguy1]

He was a guy Schiano never thought could be a coordinator (got be be co-coordinator in name only, then demoted), so seems a stretch to think he could just step up and be HC. Never seemed logical to me. If a guy stays a position coach for years and years, there's a reason. Either he's found a level he is comfortable with, or he's not that good. Neither one is compatible with then becoming a HC.

I think Flood found a level he was comfortable with, and the amount of effort required to be a HC was never going to do.

It’s not my preferred path at all but Dabo and Fitzgerald were position coaches promoted from within and have done well. Fleck (not a fave of mine either) and Meyer too but they were G5 HCs first. I didn’t like Flood for that reason when he was hired but it has worked for others at times.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

logical in effort to keep recruits interested and keep cost down.
Don't think Flood was looked at by other P-5 programs as a possible HC, but RU gambled on him to keep from paying the salary they would have to pay someone else.
Should have hired Ash instead, he'd be gone by now [banana][roll]

Showing Ash the door

 

[JoeRU0304]

Adding 2007-09 (can't find 2010-12):

2007: 27,000
2008: ~26,700
2009: ~30,000
2010: ?
2011: ?
2012: ?
2013: 22,040
2014: 31,016
2015: 31,168
2016: 28,478
2017: 23,812
2018: 22,337


2007 source:
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/sports/ncaafootball/26rutgers.html

For the 2007 season (2 yrs pre-expansion), we sold 27,000 season tickets and had ~6,000 on the wait list. Also mentioned a low if 8,000 season tickets at some point (guessing late 90s and early 00s).

2008 source:
http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/ru...newal-rate-on-football-season-tickets.114992/

For the 2008 season, we had a 99% season ticket renewal rate and the wait list swelled to 11,241, so let's go with 26,700 for 2008.

2009 source:
http://blogs.mycentraljersey.com/ru...column-fans-filling-expanded-rutgers-stadium/

"Upon expansion, though, only 3,000 actually signed up."

Great research here...sort of amazed Schiano had us at B1G-level ticket sales even when we were in the Big East. The other numbers were pretty much what I expected.


Joe P.

 

[RU#1fan]

Just looking at those teams before and after transition....
In 2001-04 we were 3-20 vs. BC (0-4), Pitt w/ Harris (0-4), Miami (0-3), VTech (0-3), UConn (0-1), Cuse w/ Pasqualoni (1-3), and Temple (2-2)

In 2005-08 we were 17-7 vs. Pitt w/ Wanny (4-0), Cuse w/Robinson (4-0), USF (3-1), UConn (3-1), Ville (2-2), Cincy (1-3)

Schiano’s recruiting successes in NJ and FL started to show results in ‘05.

 

[Wolv RU]

I don't think that's true. Wilkipedia says he was coach for five years at FIU and took them to their first-ever bowl. He was eventually fired for having a poor record after that; the Wilkipedia article asserts that the firing was controversial. He then became an associate head coach at Alabama. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Cristobal

BTW, the article says he adores Joe Paterno.

I guess I should have said did not go well in their view -- they're the ones that fired him. I haven't looked enough at any of the details of all of those years to really say one way or another.

 

[Wolv RU]

I wasn’t a fan of him then and still not now although he did do a stint at the Saban halfway house. He inherited a NFL qb and a top dc who has now left but lucky for him the qb came back for next year. They expect to compete for and win PAC 12 championships so we’ll how he does over time. He can recruit but so does USC and we see how they’ve done as of late.

Oregon plays Auburn in week 1 this year so we will find out real quick how good they are this year. A win there would be huge for them.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Oregon plays Auburn in week 1 this year so we will find out real quick how good they are this year. A win there would be huge for them.

Yea I take things beyond a year and beyond a game. Consistency over time is what matters. They finished fourth in the pac 12 north last year and Oregon with the resources they have want much bigger than that. Hoke did even better his first year and see how that faltered as time went on. So we’ll see.

 

[retired711]

I guess I should have said did not go well in their view -- they're the ones that fired him. I haven't looked enough at any of the details of all of those years to really say one way or another.

I think I misinterpreted your original post, and it's my fault. Somehow I thought he had taken the FIU job after not being hired here, but in reality he had been coach there for years, and his success it's what led to his being considered here. But, as I say, the firing was controversial at FIU. He certainly has landed on his feet. Whether he would have been a good choice here is something we'll never know. Oregon has taken a chance on him and the results aren't bad so far.

 

[Knightmoves]

Great research here...sort of amazed Schiano had us at B1G-level ticket sales even when we were in the Big East. The other numbers were pretty much what I expected.


Joe P.

Cristobal now coaches the Oregon Ducks, which went 9-4 last year with five conference wins. They're certainly not playing our schedule, but you'd think Cristoboal would not be doing terribly here. Does anyone know why he backed out here? (I remember something about his wife not liking our area; too much cold weather, maybe?). I saw a quote that he loves being at Oregon.

I think that Mario Cristobal would have bombed out badly at RU.

FIU fired him. What else do we need to know?

He is only HC at Oregon because Willie Taggart jumped ship for Florida.

 

[RUChoppin]

Schiano’s recruiting successes in NJ and FL started to show results in ‘05.

Yes, not playing Miami and VTech didn't hurt either.... and Pitt/Cuse stepping back with worse coaches... and you know, Ray Rice falling in his lap...

Schiano definitely improved the recruiting overall by taking a lot of second tier guys from Florida... but if those other things didn't happen, "show results" would have likely been 5 to 7 win seasons. If the Big East kept on as it was with Miami/VTech/BC and Harris/Pasqualoni staying at Pitt/Cuse the 2006 year would never have happened, the stadium expansion wouldn't have happened, and the B1G invite would also probably not have happened.

The Pasqualoni firing was huge all on its own.... it shifted Ray Rice and Courtney Green from Cuse's roster to Rutgers' roster, and changed the fortunes of both programs dramatically.

 

[bac2therac]

schiano should be hired, i am so infuriated by the sickening spiral that Hobbs is causing with this Ash disaster

 

[BlockR]

schiano should be hired, i am so infuriated by the sickening spiral that Hobbs is causing with this Ash disaster

Alot of fans feel the same way. Some part of the fan base has been beaten down and conditioned to accept poor coaching hires under the excuse there isn't any money.
Political hiring and not investing in a proven head coach has gotten us to this bottom feeder level.
Hobbs has no experience with running any level of football programs, be it power five or group of five. Hobbs needs to hire someone to administrate football operations,get a plan together, and to hire the next head coach. Pat Hobbs cant be trusted to make the next hire.

 

[retired711]

Alot of fans feel the same way. Some part of the fan base has been beaten down and conditioned to accept poor coaching hires under the excuse there isn't any money.
Political hiring and not investing in a proven head coach has gotten us to this bottom feeder level.
Hobbs has no experience with running any level of football programs, be it power five or group of five. Hobbs needs to hire someone to administrate football operations,get a plan together, and to hire the next head coach. Pat Hobbs cant be trusted to make the next hire.

How many schools have someone extra to administer football operations? My hunch is that this means one more administrative expense in a department with plenty of personnel. What we need is for Hobbs to learn a lot in a hurry about hiring football coaches.

 

[sunsetregret]

Hobbs just raised $100 million with a string losing seasons. Why couldn't Pernetti raise $2 or 3 million for a coach with a string of winning seasons?

Because we weren't in the Big 10? Because the perception was that we were about to get left out of the major college football conference re-alignment and we're most likely about to become what UCONN did become?

 

[TRU2RU]

Yes, not playing Miami and VTech didn't hurt either.... and Pitt/Cuse stepping back with worse coaches... and you know, Ray Rice falling in his lap...

Schiano definitely improved the recruiting overall by taking a lot of second tier guys from Florida... but if those other things didn't happen, "show results" would have likely been 5 to 7 win seasons. If the Big East kept on as it was with Miami/VTech/BC and Harris/Pasqualoni staying at Pitt/Cuse the 2006 year would never have happened, the stadium expansion wouldn't have happened, and the B1G invite would also probably not have happened.

The Pasqualoni firing was huge all on its own.... it shifted Ray Rice and Courtney Green from Cuse's roster to Rutgers' roster, and changed the fortunes of both programs dramatically.

Wanny getting fired at Pitt also helped Schiano as RU got Jeff Hafley, Brian Angelichio & Frank Cignetti who all helped recruiting

 

[RUChoppin]

Wanny getting fired at Pitt also helped Schiano as RU got Jeff Hafley, Brian Angelichio & Frank Cignetti who all helped recruiting

Yes, that was a bit of a boost - but it was late in Schiano's tenure, and well after he'd gotten the program to turn the corner. There was a lot of change that broke our way in 2004 and 2005 that set up 2006 and beyond.

 

[RU1993]

Publicly hiring an interim is a very bad idea. It's you as a school willingly losing out on a whole recruiting cycle.

Now with Flood we did that anyways, but still.

so we hire Flood to not lose that years recruiting cycle and he followed it up with several disappointing classes. Greg not only left us at the last minute but also gutted the coaching staff. Need to move on from him.

 

[Upstream]

There was also the whole "we're in a collapsing conference" business to think about.

Except, supposedly Pernetti was in constant contact with Delany and knew that an invite to the Big Ten was pending. If Pernetti really had no clue that Rutgers would be invited to the Big Ten less than 10 months later, that supports the narrative that his role in getting us into the Big Ten was "answering the phone".

 

[retired711]

Except, supposedly Pernetti was in constant contact with Delany and knew that an invite to the Big Ten was pending. If Pernetti really had no clue that Rutgers would be invited to the Big Ten less than 10 months later, that supports the narrative that his role in getting us into the Big Ten was "answering the phone".

My impression is that "pending" is too strong. Rutgers officials had long known that the Big Ten was very interested -- I know this goes back to the Mulcahy regime -- but couldn't know for sure until the invitation was issued if that would work out. I am sure that Pernetti did more than "answer the phone."