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Sandusky stuff "happened over 40 years ago" - state penn coach

Ok, let's go even more basic:
Did he know about what happened in the shower and then ultimately didn't do enough to ensure the proper authorities did something about it?
 
Seriously.

Paterno may or may not have known a lot of things. What happened in the shower? How it was handled? What happened in 98? What happened in the 70s? What other coaches saw?

At the most fundamental level, though, if the question pertains to whether Paterno knew Sandusky was a serial pedophile, and chose to cover up his crimes for his own benefit and that of the football program, I am inclined to answer as I have for years here: no.

Jesus holy f****** Christ...
 
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Which one is CV?

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Ha, as soon as I said it wasn't worth discussing further I knew this would pop up.

The irony is, people here don't want to forget about the scandal but then criticize the head coach for even the most benign reference to it and its impact on the field.

Also, don't drink the Paterno beer; it's not very good.
IMO the reason most of the public cannot let it go is the unwillingness of the PSU fan base to even acknowledge Joe had some culpability in allowing this to continue for so long.
 
Also the meme that Joe and the University were also victims does not help as well.
 
Ok, let's go even more basic:
Did he know about what happened in the shower and then ultimately didn't do enough to ensure the proper authorities did something about it?

We know that he knew something occurred in the shower - McQueary's testimony has changed at least four times and is now contradicted by at least five individuals, including his own father - and that he directed McQueary to the administrators.

In terms of university policy, he did enough.
In terms of (since updated) NCAA policy, he did enough.
In terms of the law, he did enough.

Personally, I believe he should have done more to follow up once referring McQ to C/S/S. You guys are just making me repeat my posts here over the last months and years.
 
We know that he knew something occurred in the shower - McQueary's testimony has changed at least four times and is now contradicted by at least five individuals, including his own father - and that he directed McQueary to the administrators.

In terms of university policy, he did enough.
In terms of (since updated) NCAA policy, he did enough.
In terms of the law, he did enough.

Personally, I believe he should have done more to follow up once referring McQ to C/S/S. You guys are just making me repeat my posts here over the last months and years.
Yes, and under that standard OJ has done enough looking for the real killers of Ron and Nicole.
 
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To be fair, Vince Lombardi could have been on the sidelines for Rutgers last year and that defense wasn't going to hold up against the run.

Chris Ash is undoubtedly more qualified to coach a P5 football program than Kyle Flood, but ultimately you need players to win, and that's going to take some time for you guys.
If Lombardi was as bad a recruiter as Flood, absolutely
 
IMO the reason most of the public cannot let it go is the unwillingness of the PSU fan base to even acknowledge Joe had some culpability in allowing this to continue for so long.
Joe liked folks to think he was a super-duper Catholic. He and his self righteous minions missed the part of the catechism where you've got to admit the sin before you can ask for forgiveness.
 
When Joe was told of Sandusky's behavior, he did what he should have. When Joe learned for himself, he did not
 
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In an attempt to get this back on topic...

I think we're all smart enough to realize that EVERY coach negative recruits to a degree. In the process of selling a prospect on your program, it is only natural to stack your strengths next to your opponents' weaknesses. Recruiting is cutthroat and not for the faint of heart.

That said, typically the types of negative recruiting you'll encounter can be defended. Your program's coach is on the hot seat and might not be there for a recruit's career? Give the coach an extension and statement of support. Your offense has struggled and isn't a good fit for a recruit? Fire the offensive coordinator and bring in someone with a better scheme and is more suited for your style of play. Your program will never be able to contend for the titles? Go out on the field and win.

The issue here is you apparently have coaches from other schools using new developments in the Sandusky scandal as "evidence" that the NCAA could put PSU back on probation or institute new sanctions. These are flat-out lies, and unlike the examples I mentioned above, are hard to disprove. Sure, you can talk to kids and their families, but short of a signed statement from the NCAA, it's just your word against the opposing program's.

By taking a strong stance against these lies, Sandy Barbour has made it clear to prospects everywhere that the B1G and NCAA are pleased with PSU and no further sanctions are in the pipeline. Doing so in such a public fashion carries a little more weight than hearing it from someone over the telephone or in your living room one on one. There's also the added benefit of, now that Meyer (who I believe) and D'Antonio (who I don't) are on the record as saying they haven't talked about this with recruits, they really can't because they'll lose all credibility with those prospects.

Whether you agree with how they handled the situation, or think it came off as whining, it effectively ended any sort of negative recruiting related to the Sandusky scandal causing further sanctions.
 
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We know that he knew something occurred in the shower - McQueary's testimony has changed at least four times and is now contradicted by at least five individuals, including his own father - and that he directed McQueary to the administrators.

In terms of university policy, he did enough.
In terms of (since updated) NCAA policy, he did enough.
In terms of the law, he did enough.

Personally, I believe he should have done more to follow up once referring McQ to C/S/S. You guys are just making me repeat my posts here over the last months and years.


If this would have happened to one of Joe Pa's grandchildren would he have done anything more.

Answer????

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
If this would have happened to one of Joe Pa's grandchildren would he have done anything more.

Answer????

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Ah, the old "what if it was your kid" morality play. If Joe knew Sandusky was molesting kids back in the 1970s would he have left his own young children around him?

Answer????
 
Ah, the old "what if it was your kid" morality play. If Joe knew Sandusky was molesting kids back in the 1970s would he have left his own young children around him?

Answer????
We don't know if he did leave his own young children around him unsupervised.
 
We don't know if he did leave his own young children around him unsupervised.

I don't have the time to search through his Twitter feed, but Scott Paterno has referenced he and his siblings being around Sandusky many times with his parents having no issues. Of course, you can say he has reason to say that now, but make of that what you will.

I'll post this here again in one last-ditch effort to get back to something that actually matters (even if it's just a tiny bit) on July 26, 2016:


I think we're all smart enough to realize that EVERY coach negative recruits to a degree. In the process of selling a prospect on your program, it is only natural to stack your strengths next to your opponents' weaknesses. Recruiting is cutthroat and not for the faint of heart.

That said, typically the types of negative recruiting you'll encounter can be defended. Your program's coach is on the hot seat and might not be there for a recruit's career? Give the coach an extension and statement of support. Your offense has struggled and isn't a good fit for a recruit? Fire the offensive coordinator and bring in someone with a better scheme and is more suited for your style of play. Your program will never be able to contend for the titles? Go out on the field and win.

The issue here is you apparently have coaches from other schools using new developments in the Sandusky scandal as "evidence" that the NCAA could put PSU back on probation or institute new sanctions. These are flat-out lies, and unlike the examples I mentioned above, are hard to disprove. Sure, you can talk to kids and their families, but short of a signed statement from the NCAA, it's just your word against the opposing program's.

By taking a strong stance against these lies, Sandy Barbour has made it clear to prospects everywhere that the B1G and NCAA are pleased with PSU and no further sanctions are in the pipeline. Doing so in such a public fashion carries a little more weight than hearing it from someone over the telephone or in your living room one on one. There's also the added benefit of, now that Meyer (who I believe) and D'Antonio (who I don't) are on the record as saying they haven't talked about this with recruits, they really can't because they'll lose all credibility with those prospects.

Whether you agree with how they handled the situation, or think it came off as whining, it effectively ended any sort of negative recruiting related to the Sandusky scandal causing further sanctions.
 
I think we're all smart enough to realize that EVERY coach negative recruits to a degree. In the process of selling a prospect on your program, it is only natural to stack your strengths next to your opponents' weaknesses. Recruiting is cutthroat and not for the faint of heart.
Thanks, but we don't need anybody from State College to fill us in on this obvious fact.

That said, typically the types of negative recruiting you'll encounter can be defended.
What's special about this negative recruiting that exempts the Nits? What rule book of dirty recruiting you consulting?

The issue here is you apparently have coaches from other schools using new developments in the Sandusky scandal as "evidence" that the NCAA could put PSU back on probation or institute new sanctions. These are flat-out lies, and unlike the examples I mentioned above, are hard to disprove. Sure, you can talk to kids and their families, but short of a signed statement from the NCAA, it's just your word against the opposing program's.

These are not lies. They are unfounded speculation. But if the NCAA knew that Presidents Oswald, Jordan, Thomas, Spanier all presided over 10 of millions of dollars in hush money for a Paterno staff member starting in 1976 might they have been more likely to invoke a "death penalty". A reasonable supposition.

Will the drip.. drip.. cause them to reconsider and go back and reinstate some sanctions. I don't think so but it's not crazy to ask the question.

the B1G and NCAA are pleased with PSU and no further sanctions are in the pipeline.

I'm happy with the official response too and I really detest you cultists. It's the whack job fan base and incestuous power structure that still prevails in State College that sickens me.
 
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Oh, and cv - you don't want a 15 page thread, pretty simple. Just stop posting. You won't get the last word about this on this site. Ever. Makes no sense to bother trying.
 
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You can disagree. But you'd be wrong.

Things Franklin touched on in his opening statement: condolences for Nebraska and Michigan State and the families of the players who died; proud of players' efforts in the classroom and community; excitement and confidence heading into season; the benefits of getting back to 85 scholarships; the running back room; importance of senior leadership from a relatively small number of seniors; how pivotal this season is.

If you go back and read the transcript, nothing in his opening statement was about negative recruiting or whining about the challenges the program has faced the past two seasons. Things are what they are, and if anything, I took Franklin's comments about getting closer to the 85 limit not as him excusing what happened the past two seasons, but setting the bar for 2016, essentially saying the time is now to start progressing this thing forward.

Only at the end of his session did negative recruiting and the Sandusky scandal come up, and it was as a result of a question that directly referenced those issues.



What does "Joe knew" mean? That's quite a vague question to ask in the context of a Sandusky scandal that has very little black and white.
I know one thing.

When a coach uses excuses for every aspect of his program. Whether its recruiting or winning on the field. Never do they become good coaches. Franklin is a joke among other coaches around the country. Just like the university he represents.

Oh forgot to say. Franklin has done more negative recruiting than any coach around. You don't see other coaches crying like he does. Its comical in central Pa
 
In an attempt to get this back on topic...

I think we're all smart enough to realize that EVERY coach negative recruits to a degree. In the process of selling a prospect on your program, it is only natural to stack your strengths next to your opponents' weaknesses. Recruiting is cutthroat and not for the faint of heart.
89th
No they don't. I'm friends with the best recruiter in Rutgers history, Jeff Hafley. He told me he never talks bad about other schools because it gets out there that you're doing it very quickly and it makes you look bad to future recruits. He actually told me that while he was still at Pitt and I asked him how he bashed RU. Haha!
 
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Cheesestake don't forget that AD was forced out of the California AD position because under her reign academics dropped to unsatisfactory levels in the FB and basketball programs because of the way she ran the Athletic Department there and Penn St still found her the most qualified to run theirs.
PSU's President presided over FSU's stonewalling investigation of its star FB player and Penn St still hired him
Franklin just came off allegations he interfered in a rape investigation and was deemed the best candidate for the FB HC position.
Penn St doesn't care what people think as long as the sanctions were lifted before the information about them paying off child molesting lawsuits against them for over 40 years became public .
But will whine about it in order to play the victim.
You can look at the type of people that Penn St hires and see they don't care what the people think and will use any excuse they can to justify their actions.

You can bet the NCAA isn't pleased with recent developments , just that they can't do anything about it now after backing off the punishment they originally handed Penn St.
If the info about Penn St paying off victims for 40 years came out before sanctions were lifted, Penn St would still be working under them.
 
These are not lies. They are unfounded speculation. But if the NCAA knew that Presidents Oswald, Jordan, Thomas, Spanier all presided over 10 of millions of dollars in hush money for a Paterno staff member starting in 1976 might they have been more likely to invoke a "death penalty". A reasonable supposition.

Will the drip.. drip.. cause them to reconsider and go back and reinstate some sanctions. I don't think so but it's not crazy to ask the question.

If coaches are telling kids that the NCAA is going to sanction Penn State again based on unsupported allegations from the 1970s that surfaced in an insurance case, then yes, they're lying.

Oh, and cv - you don't want a 15 page thread, pretty simple. Just stop posting. You won't get the last word about this on this site. Ever. Makes no sense to bother trying.

I don't mind if it reaches 15 pages. Like I said, it's the off-season, it's dead. This is why this has even become a story, because people have nothing to talk about in late July and are just waiting for practice to start.

I know one thing.

When a coach uses excuses for every aspect of his program. Whether its recruiting or winning on the field. Never do they become good coaches. Franklin is a joke among other coaches around the country. Just like the university he represents.

Oh forgot to say. Franklin has done more negative recruiting than any coach around. You don't see other coaches crying like he does. Its comical in central Pa

Not sure how many times we have to go over this, but things like competing with 65 or 75 scholarships, or with only nine scholarship OL, or with a roster that is HEAVILY skewed toward underclassmen are not excuses. That has been reality. And once again, Franklin framed those comments in the context of this coming season, and how some of those issues are starting to be resolved, and it's time to start making progress.

There's no need to make excuses for winning 7 games, going to consecutive bowl games, and recruiting very strongly given the situation this program has been in.
 
Penn St doesn't care what people think as long as the sanctions were lifted before the information about them paying off child molesting lawsuits against them for over 40 years became public .

You can bet the NCAA isn't pleased with recent developments , just that they can't do anything about it now after backing off the punishment they originally handed Penn St.
If the info about Penn St paying off victims for 40 years came out before sanctions were lifted, Penn St would still be working under them.

You lost me with your comments on the settlements. The Board of Trustees made no effort to conceal that it settled with victims from 40 years ago. In fact, it is the Trustees' arrogance that led to this information becoming public. They failed to do their fiduciary duty to the university by approving many of these settlements with little or no vetting, and they compounded that mistake by just assuming PMA would pay the claims. Had they not tried to have their cake and eat it too, and just paid the settlements and moved forward, the PMA case wouldn't exist and these documents wouldn't be in the news. Unfortunately, this entire case has been mishandled since November 2011, so nothing surprises me at this point.

As far an almost impossible to believe accusation from the 1970s, and the claims regarding Schiano and Bradley that have been vehemently denied, if you think those would have been grounds for further sanctions, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
Oh, and cv - you don't want a 15 page thread, pretty simple. Just stop posting. You won't get the last word about this on this site. Ever. Makes no sense to bother trying.
MDH is right, the more you post the longer and nastier this thread will get, good luck
 
Ah, the old "what if it was your kid" morality play. If Joe knew Sandusky was molesting kids back in the 1970s would he have left his own young children around him?

Answer????
I wouldn't be surprised to find out Paterno let his own children around Sandusky after learning Paterno knew for over 40 years what Sandusky was.
I'm sure Paterno always had someone looking out for his kids around Sandusky but didn't give a damm about any other kids around that pervert.
Just hoped Sandusky wouldn't be caught and cost the school more money.
Protecting the FB program was what Paterno was all about

On the claims against Bradley and Schiano ( you posted in another message in this thread) , if they weren't know before sanctions were lifted, they couldn't be a part of keeping those sanctions in place or adding to them
As for payoff known, you have a point, but what was just released concerning those payoffs weren't known and I doubt Penn St brought them up when being investigated by the NCAA.
Also this new info about 40 years of payoffs and victims saying Paterno knew about Sandusky would have brought Joe Paterno into the justice system facing a charge of perjury over his grand jury testimony
 
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The Board of Trustees made no effort to conceal that it settled with victims from 40 years ago.

You can't make this stuff up. That's a lie. We only know because the insurance company let it out in open court.

When all the news agencies made public records requests of Penn State about the cover up and there was no mention of decades of pay offs that was not an effort to conceal?

Did anybody tell Freeh?

You sure didn't tell the NCAA, Middle States, or any PA law enforcement authority apparently.

Mean old former Federal Judge/ FBI Director and dastardly news people are keeping a "good" program down, sure.

Laughable.
 
So when all the news agencies made public records requests of Penn State about the cover up and there was no mention of decades of pay offs that was not an effort to conceal?

Did anybody tell Freeh?

You sure didn't tell the NCAA, Middle States, or any PA law enforcement authority apparently.

Mean old former Federal Judge/ FBI Director and dastardly news people are keeping a "good" program down, sure.

Laughable.

"About the cover-up." Let's see what happens when C/S/S have their day in court, or as is more likely to happen, have all of their charges dismissed and are finally able to speak should they choose. I'm sure Spanier will be more than willing.

I'd have to check on the timeline of when all of the settlements were reached, but I believe the Freeh report was concluded either during or before the process was completed. Not to mention, the Freeh report was designed to place blame on a football "culture" and a few administrators; had the Trustees known about the 1970s claims at the time and/or felt they would have added to that narrative, they would have been included in that bogus POS.

In terms of the settlements, the PMA case, and all of the news over the last two months, all of it goes back to the incompetence of the BoT and its desire back in the November 2011 and the months after to protect its own interests rather than those of the university.
 
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The football culture was to blame and the 3 that are having their day in court facing charges for their part in cover up and Paterno were a big part of it.
That culture still exists in part of the fanbase and some Penn St officials.
As for charges being dismissed, legal technicalities sometimes cause that and sometimes the guilty do get off because due diligence wasn't followed to the T or the evidence isn't enough to convict someone who is guilty of the charge brought against them.
Paterno claimed he didn't know and ter was evidence he was part of the cover-up, but that evidence couldn't be confirmed so he wasn't charged.
But if what is known now about a victim claiming he talked to Paterno in 70s , Joe Paterno might be sitting at the defendant's table besides those three hoping a technicality will get him off
 
The football culture was to blame and the 3 that are having their day in court facing charges for their part in cover up and Paterno were a big part of it.
That culture still exists in part of the fanbase and some Penn St officials.
As for charges being dismissed, legal technicalities sometimes cause that and sometimes the guilty do get off because due diligence wasn't followed to the T or the evidence isn't enough to convict someone who is guilty of the charge brought against them.
Paterno claimed he didn't know and ter was evidence he was part of the cover-up, but that evidence couldn't be confirmed so he wasn't charged.
But if what is known now about a victim claiming he talked to Paterno in 70s , Joe Paterno might be sitting at the defendant's table besides those three hoping a technicality will get him off

Blaming football for Sandusky's crimes is not only inaccurate, it insults the larger problem of child abuse. I don't think The Second Mile, the breeding ground for Sandusky's victims, had a football culture; or law enforcement agencies that investigated Sandusky; or the child welfare services that allowed him to adopt children; or former Attorney General Tom Corbett, who accepted TSM donations to fund his campaign while aware of allegations made against Sandusky. Football had nothing to do with Sandusky being a pedophile or his crimes, other than the fact that his career provided him a platform to start his charity and enough cover to dodge speculation and fool an entire town and state for so long.

Curley, Spanier and Shultz will not "get off." The case against them is weak and based on a loose interpretation of laws at the time of their alleged crimes and the time they were charged. Ultimately, no one at Penn State will have been convicted of a crime, and I look forward to the day when these men can tell their side of the story without a court case hanging over their heads. Maybe then we can get some added insight into the situation and some actual context to the very weak "evidence" people use, like random emails, to cite a cover-up. Meanwhile, TSM continues to escape scrutiny, and the lack of investigation into the relationships between TSM, some of PSU's trustees, and Corbett, as well as how so many state agencies could have failed so miserably for so long, continues to put other PA children at risk. Just recently a story broke regarding the high number of calls to the child abuse hotline that go unanswered. That's not directly tied to this case, of course, but many more people than a football coach and a few administrators should be being asked some tough questions.

I continue to focus on the McQueary incident because that is the basis for Penn State's perceived culpability in the case, and where Paterno, et. al. get criticized. Given what we know about the settlement process, and McQueary's testimony changing with the wind, and the factual inaccuracies in the other PMA documents, I find it hard to view the instances involving Bradley, Schiano, the NFL trainer, and the 1970s accusation as very credible. The 1970s one, especially, would seem to contradict, in fact, the accepted narrative that Paterno and company protected Sandusky for legacies, wins, money, etc.
 
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With that, there's no need for me to discuss the scandal itself any further at this time. Clearly, we aren't changing each other's minds. If anyone wants to get back to negative recruiting, though, feel free...
 
With that, there's no need for me to discuss the scandal itself any further at this time. Clearly, we aren't changing each other's minds. If anyone wants to get back to negative recruiting, though, feel free...
Just for the record, the thread was NOT started or had anything to do with negative recruiting. The thread started with a quote from your current head football coach mentioning how what went on at your school happened 40 years ago. :flushed:
 
Not blaming football for Sandusky, Cheesesteak, but blaming protecting football's image for not turning in Sandusky letting him to continue to prey on children.
When Penn St first started paying out for Sandusky molesting children he should have been fired then . But by keeping him after the first time Penn St paid they basically said that football's image
was more important.
Don't try to confuse the Penn St coverup with Sandusky's perversion.
Sandusky was tried and convicted for what Penn St had been covering up since the 70s
The case against Curley, Spanier and Shultz might wind up in the dump because circomstancal evidence might not be enough and the people in the cover up kept things hidden making a conviction hard to prove.
I'm sure Penn St fan like you feel they are innocent and no cover up occurred.
Even though Penn St had paid out since the 70s for children's sexual abuse claims against Sandusky.

Trying to spin it I'm blaming the football program for Sandusky's actions is just plain wrong. I'm blaming the culture Penn St surrounded it's football program with , the Penn St leadership that put the winning over everything and covering up for a pervert so it wouldn't hurt the FB program or it's HC's image.
For over 40 years Penn St was doing that and once it started paying out and not firing Sandusky, Penn St had to keep covering up for Sandusky's actions hoping outside law enforcement wouldn't find out and investigate on their own without Penn St being able to control what they looked at..

I'm sure OJ is innocent of all he was charged with because the jury found him not guilty.
 
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Just for the record, the thread was NOT started or had anything to do with negative recruiting. The thread started with a quote from your current head football coach mentioning how what went on at your school happened 40 years ago. :flushed:
Fact seen to escape the spin some Penn St posters post in a thread that forces them to look at the truth and not their version of it.
 
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