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Schiano versus Leipold

I've mentioned similar many times in the past. No particular path is a guarantee but I've said coaches who've demonstrated more with less and done it multiple times when faces change (either by changing jobs or being in a place long enough where natural attrition happens) can possibly be a sign of positive pattern and potentially good coach that might do well. Brian Kelly is another one I've mentioned, Jim Tressel too.



 
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fsg2 said:
No. Leipold was a horrible idea for us at the time, period.

And like you said, only one or two people wanted him. So we'll probably only hear about this comparison if Leipold does well ...just like last year.
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I wanted LL but we will see.
 
mikemarc1 said:
please stop telling me to stop posting my opinions. This is a message board. Where you are allowed to post opinions.

And what you responded to above was a FACT.

Leipold took over an 0-9 team. To say he took over a “much better situation” than Greg is silly.
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Coming from a poster who in his post a previous poster to "Please stop?" Not a chance.

You are cherry picking and ignoring that he has a roster of OL/DL and a QB that were there when he took over. Quite the difference. Greg did a complete roster overhaul at QB/OL/DL/TE/LB. Those are important positions.

I have said that Leipold has done a decent job. But let's wait and see how his season plays out before declaring him the epitome of greatness. His record is worse than Greg's after 17 games in conference when Greg had much tougher conference opponents. Those are FACTS.
 
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Knight Shift said:
Coming from a poster who in his post a previous poster to "Please stop?" Not a chance.

You are cherry picking and ignoring that he has a roster of OL/DL and a QB that were there when he took over. Quite the difference. Greg did a complete roster overhaul at QB/OL/DL/TE/LB. Those are important positions.

I have said that Leipold has done a decent job. But let's wait and see how his season plays out before declaring him the epitome of greatness. His record is worse than Greg's after 17 games in conference when Greg had much tougher conference opponents. Those are FACTS.
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I’m not going to. I’m sorry. Both men have been coaching for decades. That’s enough of a sample size.

it’s not crazy that I think a coach with 6 national championships is a better coach than one with none. Let alone any conference championships. And you’re exaggerating. Never have I said he’s “the epitome of greatness”.

And who cares anyway what my opinion is? You think Greg may be better…all good. Just please be respectful.
 
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mikemarc1 said:
I’m not going to. I’m sorry. Both men have been coaching for decades. That’s enough of a sample size.

it’s not crazy that I think a coach with 6 national championships is a better coach than one with none. Let alone any conference championships. And you’re exaggerating. Never have I said he’s “the epitome of greatness”.

And who cares anyway what my opinion is? You think Greg may be better…all good. Just please be respectful.
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That's the funny thing. I never said Greg was better. And where have I been disrespectful in the last few posts?
It's a lot easier to coach at the FCS. Ask Jason Candle. He was OC at the Mount Union juggernaut. He started out great at Toledo. Going 9-4/6-2 in his first year, and 11-3/7-1 in his second year. In his next 4 years, he has not broken through 7 wins at Toledo. He was a favorite of mine to replace Ash.

And the coach who took over Wisconsin Whitewater for Leipold is 70-10 and 39-3. He was 13-1 and 7-0 twice in the last 3 years, long after Leipold left the program. And guess what? Wisconsin Whitewater was 28-2 and 14-0 the two years prior to Leipold taking over in 2007. Seems like it was a juggernaut before Leipold and continues to be a juggernaut after he left.

Context and facts matter. Seems his Wisconsin-Whitewater record was and continues to be a winning trajectory dating back to 2005.


37-33/25-20 at Buffalo in the MAC and 7-10 and 3-8 in the Big 12 is nothing to crow about. And it certainly is not worth the number of posts some of you guys have spent using it to put down our own coach. In numerous posts I have raised questions about some of Greg's decisions. He's far from perfect. But I continue to support him and not some flash in the pan after 5 games in 2022.

Let's just agree that we disagree.
 
Knight Shift said:
That's the funny thing. I never said Greg was better. And where have I been disrespectful in the last few posts?
It's a lot easier to coach at the FCS. Ask Jason Candle. He was OC at the Mount Union juggernaut. He started out great at Toledo. Going 9-4/6-2 in his first year, and 11-3/7-1 in his second year. In his next 4 years, he has not broken through 7 wins at Toledo. He was a favorite of mine to replace Ash.

And the coach who took over Wisconsin Whitewater for Leipold is 70-10 and 39-3. He was 13-1 and 7-0 twice in the last 3 years, long after Leipold left the program. And guess what? Wisconsin Whitewater was 28-2 and 14-0 the two years prior to Leipold taking over in 2007. Seems like it was a juggernaut before Leipold and continues to be a juggernaut after he left.

Context and facts matter. Seems his Wisconsin-Whitewater record was and continues to be a winning trajectory dating back to 2005.


37-33/25-20 at Buffalo in the MAC and 7-10 and 3-8 in the Big 12 is nothing to crow about. And it certainly is not worth the number of posts some of you guys have spent using it to put down our own coach. In numerous posts I have raised questions about some of Greg's decisions. He's far from perfect. But I continue to support him and not some flash in the pan after 5 games in 2022.

Let's just agree that we disagree.
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you told me to stop posting. I’d call that disrespect. (But yes, very minor).

And yes, you never said Greg was better. I never claimed you did. You do think he MAY BE better…we just have to see it play out. Which is what my last line says. I think based on past results that Leipold is better.

And yes let’s agree to disagree. That’s what I’ve always wanted. And have no issue with you disagreeing with me.

your responses seem to indicate YOU have an issue with the disagreement.
 
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mikemarc1 said:
Just curious. Why?
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Even I am curious about LL being considered a bad hire.
I feel he would have been a good hire, but would have a lot more problems turning the program around than Schiano would, but was a top choice if Greg didn't get the position..

edit : I wonder about poor culture fit because his time as the Bulls HC helped him adjust to the type of area he was in..
Buffalo might not be the NY/NJ type of area, but it is an east coast environment and LL learned what it takes to succeed at a lower level east coast program,
 
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MADHAT1 said:
Even I am curious about LL being considered a bad hire.
I feel he would have been a good hire, but would have a lot more problems turning the program around than Schiano would, but was a top choice if Greg didn't get the position.
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Turned Kansas around pretty quickly. Why do you think he would have had issues here?
 
mikemarc1 said:
Ash had no idea what he was doing. LL has over a decade of HC experience. Silly to compare the two.
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No it isn't. Every candidate, including Ash, has some kind of experience that suggests they'll be the next all-time great P5 coach. That doesn't mean they will be, especially here.
 
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Some coaches can coach anywhere and some can’t.

Could you get a better fit than Frost at Nebraska and how did that work out? Conversely how strange was the Rhule to Baylor hire and walking into the big mess after Briles. In two years he got them over .500 and in 3 he got double digit wins.
 
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rutgersguy1 said:
Some coaches can coach anywhere and some can’t.

Could you get a better fit than Frost at Nebraska and how did that work out? Conversely how strange was the Rhule to Baylor hire and walking into the big mess after Briles. In two years he got them over .500 and in 3 he got double digit wins.
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And at the time, we could ill afford to take a chance on yet another guy who might end up in the "can't" category.

This whole thread is merely premature Wednesday afternoon QBing.
 
ouchmyknee said:
Because people here think that only a NJ guy can be successful here. It’s such a dumb perception. It’s not like Greg is recruiting lights out.
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That's a big problem with our fanbase. NJ is a, shall we say different place, but it isn't Mars.

Leipold could have been successful here. and frankly, he's the type of innovative winning coach we need when Schiano leaves. That's the only way we are going to have a hope to compete in this league. His offense is fun to watch and the kids play HARD.
 
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ouchmyknee said:
Because people here think that only a NJ guy can be successful here. It’s such a dumb perception. It’s not like Greg is recruiting lights out.
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That and they're just trying to come up with justifications for why Schiano is "the only coach who could ever succeed at Rutgers." NJ is no different than anywhere else. Win and people act the same. Lose and they act the same, too.
 
mikemarc1 said:
Turned Kansas around pretty quickly. Why do you think he would have had issues here?
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the way the media makes RU into a loser and how they would find fault with his every move.
Along with making local high school coaches have enough confidence in him at first to nudge their players to consider RU a desired destination with a HC that will be given the time to turn it around..
I feel Lance wouldn't turn RU around as fast as you think he would and though program woul;d slowly improve the fanbase would turn away from him and the administration wold dump him before he accomplished his mission.
Schiano has a better chance to last and that's why he's a better fit in my book.
Not saying LL wouldn't succeed in turning RU around if given the time, but the turnaround would be slow and he wouldn't be given the time needed to do it.

Right now many are bitching about Greg's 3-2 team like the season is lost and despite being still in bowl contention , the program is a loser that isn't going anywhere.
Greg can ride those types of fans out, Good bye Lance is what Leipold would hear

Plus of Lance waS the RU HC,you cam bet a thread like this would be up but instead of singing Leipold's praise, you'd be seeing a Schiano love-feast wishing he was hired and not Lance
 
MADHAT1 said:
the way the media makes RU into a loser and how they would find fault with his every move.
Along with making local high school coaches have enough confidence in him at first to nudge their players to consider RU a desired destination with a HC that will be given the time to turn it around..
I feel Lance wouldn't turn RU around as fast as you think he would and though program woul;d slowly improve the fanbase would turn away from him and the administration wold dump him before he accomplished his mission.
Schiano has a better chance to last and that's why he's a better fit in my book.
Not saying LL wouldn't succeed in turning RU around if given the time, but the turnaround would be slow and he wouldn't be given the time needed to do it.

Right now many are bitching about Greg's 3-2 team like the season is lost and despite being still in bowl contention , the program is a loser that isn't going anywhere.
Greg can ride those types of fans out, Good bye Lance is what Leipold would hear

Plus of Lance waS the RU HC,you cam bet a thread like this would be up but instead of singing Leipold's praise, you'd be seeing a Schiano love-feast wishing he was hired and not Lance
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Ash and Flood were both here for 4 years and didn't run away because of the media. No reason to believe the media, whose influence some of our posters blow insanely out of proportion, would've had an effect on Leopold.
 
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brgRC90 said:
Ash and Flood were both here for 4 years and didn't run away because of the media. No reason to believe the media, whose influence some of our posters blow insanely out of proportion, would've had an effect on Leopold.
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Flood took over a good program and made it bad.
Ash took over a bad program and made iit worse.
The media didn't need to go adfter them.
Plus they both didn't server their full term.
Flood because of his actions and media coverage of it.
Ash,left because of his incompetence.

Following those two Lance would have a l;ot to prove and if not faxt enough the door would open and he'd be looking for another job .
I doubt Hobbs would give him more that 5 years and by the 4th the fanbase would want him gone because the program wasn't where they thought it should be, even though it was improving.
Tje media would be questing his hire, even though they were seeing progress.being slowly made
 
MADHAT1 said:
Flood took over a good program and made it bad.
Ash took over a bad program and made iit worse.
The media didn't need to go adfter them.
Plus they both didn't server their full term.
Flood because of his actions and media coverage of it.
Ash,left because of his incompetence.

Following those two Lance would have a l;ot to prove and if not faxt enough the door would open and he'd be looking for another job .
I doubt Hobbs would give him more that 5 years and by the 4th the fanbase would want him gone because the program wasn't where they thought it should be, even though it was improving.
Tje media would be questing his hire, even though they were seeing progress.being slowly made
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I don't agree. The media has never hounded anyone out of the coaching Job and our AD is very slow to move.
 
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brgRC90 said:
I don't agree. The media has never hounded anyone out of the coaching Job and our AD is very slow to move.
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Media coverage not the positive type and did force an AD out many many years ago because of the type of coverage RU was getting when Rutgers FB was making the move to be more competitive and spending what it takes to do so.
Rutgers always waits untill there's no other option to fire a coach , the cost stops it from happening sooner .
But the way the l;ocal media covers RU makes the public support them less and that affects how the program is looked at.
That coverage would make Lance's job harder and if his fix was slow, he';d be crucified in the press and every call to spend what it takes would be fought tooth and nail.
Greg 1had to overcome that, don't know if Lance would get the same backing.
 
MADHAT1 said:
Media coverage not the positive type and did force an AD out many many years ago because of the type of coverage RU was getting when Rutgers FB was making the move to be more competitive and spending what it takes to do so.
Rutgers always waits untill there's no other option to fire a coach , the cost stops it from happening sooner .
But the way the l;ocal media covers RU makes the public support them less and that affects how the program is looked at.
That coverage would make Lance's job harder and if his fix was slow, he';d be crucified in the press and every call to spend what it takes would be fought tooth and nail.
Greg 1had to overcome that, don't know if Lance would get the same backing.
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i don’t think his fix would be slow. Turned around an 0-9 Kansas team in a year in a half to top 20.

there’s little reason he wouldn’t be able to do that here
 
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MADHAT1 said:
Media coverage not the positive type and did force an AD out many many years ago because of the type of coverage RU was getting when Rutgers FB was making the move to be more competitive and spending what it takes to do so.
Rutgers always waits untill there's no other option to fire a coach , the cost stops it from happening sooner .
But the way the l;ocal media covers RU makes the public support them less and that affects how the program is looked at.
That coverage would make Lance's job harder and if his fix was slow, he';d be crucified in the press and every call to spend what it takes would be fought tooth and nail.
Greg 1had to overcome that, don't know if Lance would get the same backing.
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Forced out an AD--and not because of not winning. Coaches at Rutgers are not under pressure to win like they are elsewhere.
 
MADHAT1 said:
Plus of Lance waS the RU HC,you cam bet a thread like this would be up but instead of singing Leipold's praise, you'd be seeing a Schiano love-feast wishing he was hired and not Lance
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Agree with this. If GS works great and if not we move on but there’s no cloud hovering over.
 
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brgRC90 said:
Forced out an AD--and not because of not winning. Coaches at Rutgers are not under pressure to win like they are elsewhere.
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If that's the case, Terry Shea would still be the RU HC.
There is pressure put on winning, but HCs last because RU doesn't want to spend on buyouts and until recently , salary

The media sets the tone for acceptance and the results make moves made.
Flood would have lasted longer , because RU didn't want to pay a buyout, f the media coverage of his actions didn't expose how bad it was and the type of program he had.
July Hermann became an object to attack by the media over her Louisville tenure, turning the public away from supporting her as the AD yo looking at her as someone that shouldn't have been hired..
Julie made it hard to accept her by the way the media treated her Louisville incident and the way Hermann couldn't explain away.

Media coverage doesn't have to be an out and out attack to be unhelpful, subtal hints about not being right for the job also can do the trick
 
Doesn't matter, Leipold wouldn't come here if Hobbs doesn't support NIL.
 
RobertG said:
Doesn't matter, Leipold wouldn't come here if Hobbs doesn't support NIL.
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NIL wasn't a thing then.

It doesn't matter because this thread is a bunch of guys talking about what happened three years ago through the lens of 10/3/22. Leipold wasn't even a candidate to begin with.
 
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I’ve said this a couple days ago but I think TCU will be a tall order for Kansas. If they can pull that off it’ll be nice job. Kansas does have a capable offense though. IIRC they have the 2nd longest drought in the P5 since getting a win over a ranked team at the time of the game. We have the longest.

 
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RUBlackout7 said:
Sorry then you don’t understand the dynamics of HS coaches in this area.

He would have gotten the Ash treatment.
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I can understand the concern that Leipold might not have been the smoothest fit culturally in New Jersey. It's hard to say how quickly he would've adapted; it's also hard to say he would not have at all.

But I think it's impossible to say he would've gotten the Ash treatment. I think there would have been some inherent respect for Leipold based on what he had already done, which was not some fluke. Ash was manifestly incompetent on Day One. He screamed "terrible hire" at his press conference and it was clear that Hobbs has been hoodwinked. He never commanded respect with New Jersey's high school coaches because he just didn't command respect, period.
 
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