Scrimmage Takeaways

[RULoyal]

Here is the altercation at the end...

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Soriano pointing at Cliff. I think he's feeling unloved.

In this SJ podcast, it's stated that Soriano said he was looking forward to proving that he was better than Cliff. It's at about the 8:48 mark. Could have something to do with it.

 

[LeapinLou]

Count me among those very much encouraged by what I'm reading here. I had no inclination of JD being a major contributor this year. That's really exciting that he performed like this!

 

[new jersey1]

Saw a St Johns write up on Twitter saying JMike was our best player. And that Gavin looked good. Definitely encouraging for their first action against real competition

I came away thinking and saying the say thing to those I was with. He was all over the court on the defensive end and in transition on the fast break weaving through defenders and passing/finishing at the hoop or getting fouled. Unfortunately, in the second half he missed four consecutive foul shots (was probably a bit gassed), but then made two crucial ones down the stretch. I see a lot of Jacob Young with respect to his athleticism and ability to get to the rim, but more in control than Young even being his first game as a freshman. Of course it’s one exhibition game, but I think yesterday’s competition was high level.
Gavin also impressed in the second half. Finished the game with a nice stat line. Simpson was also instrumental in our comeback in the second half with his athleticism in the open court and finishing at the basket.
Have to think that JMike and Simpson are as athletic as any pair of guards in the B1G. I think the question is whether our guards, including Noah, can score enough from the perimeter while in half court sets. Gavin should fill that role from the wing, but what other players can be adequate/consistent outside scoring threats.
Cliff played well against Soriano. He made some nice shots around the basket, passed quicker/better when double-teamed, and was impressive as usual on the defensive end.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

For J-Mike, the fan next to me and I also both made the comparison of a more under control Jacob Young. He got rejected by Soriano or Ledlum I believe twice during one stretch but it did not deter the confidence

I see a lot of Jacob Young with respect to his athleticism and ability to get to the rim, but more in control than Young even being his first game as a freshman. Of course it’s one exhibition game, but I think yesterday’s competition was high level.

 

[Groz]

It was a very intense game, especially for an exhibition/charity game. Other than us tinkering with the lineup a little bit in the first half, it was played like it was a league game or even an NCAA tourney game. Rick Pitino is, and has always been one of the best coaches ever.

JMike looks like he will be a really good player. He hounds on defense and as long as he can continue to improve on offense, he will be a 4 year star. Gavin looked a little nervous in the beginning(first game), but you can see that he will be a real elite player.

The crowd, especially the Rutgers fans that attended, were outstanding. CAN'T WAIT for the season to start......

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[RutgersChow]

They also inexplicably put up a shot pretty early in the shot clock up 2 with 20 something seconds left. Cliff pulled down the offensive rebound and got fouled, then went 1-2 from the line which left the door open for the tying three pointer. Could’ve killed some clock and gave it to St. John’s with very little time left, or waited to see if St. John’s tried to foul which would’ve probably put someone other than Cliff on the line.

"Put up a shot early in the shot clock up 2 with 20 something seconds to play" - interested in who took it and what was left on the shot clock.

 

[RutgersChow]

You realize that this was a single exhibition game, right? Way too early to bury Oskar. He is one of our best 3pt shooters and is a good team guy.

Pike likes the kid, but he's not this level player. As far as being a good team guy, I'm sure the walk-ons are that too.

 

[fatsam98]

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Here's the +/- box score from the St John's website

Box Score vs. Rutgers (Exh.) - St. John's University Athletics

Box Score vs. Rutgers (Exh.)

redstormsports.com

Cliff, JMike drew 6 PFs, Noah, Derek drew 4 PFs

AWill and Noah are going to be important pieces in the rotation when they get their true basketball legs back as 5th year seniors.

 

[RU at the shore]

Hope I’m wrong, but I think Oskar, sadly, is a bust, simply no excuse to have such a bad showing as a senior. Im glad his parents where here last year to see his best game. So, now we know.

Completely unfair and unnecessary. Oskar is a 10-11 guy at this level. He helped us when we needed him last year. And now you toss him under the bus for a preaseason game ? You are a bust as a “fan”

 

[SBP]

Completely unfair and unnecessary. Oskar is a 10-11 guy at this level. He helped us when we needed him last year. And now you toss him under the bus for a preaseason game ? You are a bust as a “fan”

Listen...last year was last year. He has been here long enough to show SOMETHING. Put your big boy underoos on. I think if you ask him, he was hoping to be more than a "10-11" guy. As did Pike, I bet.

 

[High Quality H2O]

Thx for asking - Could probably write 10K words. The game was a great experience for the team, high intensity against a talented team with a great coach in a classic venue.

First thing I noticed I haven't seen mentioned - they didn't solve the press because they brought in another ballhandler - that was incidental to why they solved it

Hyatt, then Osckar, then Wolf all failed as inbounders after made hoops (someone tell them they can run the baseline please) - they didn't see when our small guards were getting open and when they did pass it, they tended to throw a pass that pinned them on the sideline (Which was the defense's intention Pitino is a great coach). Most of the turnovers or issues vs the press were caused on the inbounds pass.

Our small guards also displayed zero technique in getting open and they didn't try anything team-oriented like setting picks to get open. When the secondary guy tried to get open, like Palm or Hyatt, it was even worse, they didn't even come close. I'll hold the editorializing on this other than to say it was disappointing in both the players and the coaches. The entire game changes if this is solved more quickly.

Could there have been a few early foul calls by the refs on the press that would have changed everything? Absolutely. Will we get those calls at SHU or Mich State? I doubt it.

We solved their press by having GG inbounds the ball. He found the guards as they got open and not on the sideline and they got the ball up the court. A couple of times when we had two small guards in, one of them inbounded it quickly to the other, this is a good fix.

Having GG inbounds the ball is a bad solution for the press, you want him sprinting up the court not inbounding the ball. High priority to get this fixed, I don't know how much B1G teams will press but I'd imagine SHU had someone at the game. Most high major college coaches just don't press.

Having 2-3 guys be possible inbounders (I'd say anyone but GG or Cliff) and doing it as quickly as possible is the optimal way to do this but most coaches don't trust 2-3 guys and specify ONE guy, which lets the press set up every time.

Preseason hype that you are:
Buying (taken GG as given here so maybe other than him/that)?
Selling?

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Even though this is only preseason, this isn't a good sign for Minnesota.

 

[cm_13]

Whatever you think about Oskar it was weird that he started and then bizarre that he played so much in OT after not playing at all in second half

I did not understand why he was in instead of Hyatt at the end of OT1

 

[PaKnight]

Whatever you think about Oskar it was weird that he started and then bizarre that he played so much in OT after not playing at all in second half

Exhibition game

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Here is the altercation at the end...

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so SJ guy hooks Simpson then gives him attitude like he did something wrong. Steps to Simpson and Cliff separates them pushing SJ jackhole and SJ team took exception. SJ guy with ball was the problem. He acted like Simpson did something wrong.. he did not.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

He’s not. That might be in practice, but it hasn’t materialized consistently. You realize he didn’t score right? Did you see his minutes? As an experienced player he should have made his mark. Apparently he started. He had a chance to show out a bit. He didn’t. Exhibition or National Championships, doesn’t matter. If you have game, at some point, you must show it.

Do you know who else didnt score for us?


Never gets old

 

[zebnatto]

For those who were there?

A) any improvement in Cliff’s baby hook
B) much question but that a healthy Mag is our #2 statistical rebounder
C) can Wolf provide good minutes at both 4 and 5
D) impression that anything from Ogbole, Oskar, Chol will be a bonus
E) Derek, J’Mike, and Noah competitive with one another, all capable at the 1
F) You think Gavin can get us 10-5-3 line

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Open ended question….
Can noah,jamike, and simpson be on the court at the same time?

Until proven otherwise….i see
1-2 noah jamike derek
3 GG
4 mag (hyatt or chol or oskar)
5 cliff and woolfolk

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Need one of Oskar or Chol to step up until Mag is a full go... sounds like we need Mag back in a big way. From what I've seen in posts it doesn't sound like either played well. We might see more Wolf at the 4 if neither can... or more small ball with Hyatt at the 4 with Noah Simpson and J Mike

We don’t want wolf at the four and we need Mag back to hit our potential

Right now …I see the rotation being this unless we have foul trouble in a game that forces others into more minutes

Cliff 30
Griffiths 26
Simpson 26
Fernandez 26
Hyatt 25
Mag 25
Davis 20
AWlilians 12
Wolf 10

I really would like Jerimah Williams to be in the rotation …but that’s not likely to baopen

I’m believing come big ten play….the role for oskar and chol will be situational as the 10th ans 11th guy

When I look at these distribution…there is 72 minutes being played by guards who Smaller (Derek, Noah and JMike )….my question is are they up to task to chase bigger guards ? If they are ….we are good. Those nights they aren’t , we are going to be pining for jerimah Williams , who is perfectly built for that role

 

[RUby RED]

For those who were there?

A) any improvement in Cliff’s baby hook
B) much question but that a healthy Mag is our #2 statistical rebounder
C) can Wolf provide good minutes at both 4 and 5
D) impression that anything from Ogbole, Oskar, Chol will be a bonus
E) Derek, J’Mike, and Noah competitive with one another, all capable at the 1
F) You think Gavin can get us 10-5-3 line

A. Don’t think he attempted many, but on the one attempt I remember (a make), I thought he showed nice touch / more arc
B. Yes, I don’t think it’s much of a question. 4 spot is noticeably thin. Concerned that our need to crash the defensive boards by committee til Mag’s back will limit transition opportunities
C. Think he can be competent at the 4, but his game still seems best suited for the 5. Did attempt a three pointer and showed some ability handling the ball, so perhaps he can build on that
D. Ogbole’s still out, but on Chol / Oskar that would be my takeaway — think we’ll be forced to play at least one of them decent mins til Mag is 100% but wouldn’t have high expectations. Oskar is who he is at this point, will need the 3 to be falling to give us anything. On Chol, thought he physically looked the part but the game still appears a little fast for him — momentary lapses on both O and D
E. Yes, think all three can give good minutes at the 1. Would imagine we’ll take a PG by committee approach
F. Yes, apparent the offensive ability is there to do that

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Open ended question….
Can noah,jamike, and simpson be on the court at the same time?

Until proven otherwise….i see
1-2 noah jamike derek
3 GG
4 mag (hyatt or chol or oskar)
5 cliff and woolfolk

See my post …I see the same situation even with TWO of Derek, Noah, and JMIke on the floor together . And I think those three are on going to be on the floor for 72 minute per game …so we are gonna find out who is going to trail the opposition more physical or taller guard

 

[zebnatto]

A. Don’t think he attempted many, but on the one attempt I remember (a make), I thought he showed nice touch / more arc
B. Yes, I don’t think it’s much of a question. 4 spot is noticeably thin. Concerned that our need to crash the defensive boards by committee til Mag’s back will limit transition opportunities
C. Think he can be competent at the 4, but his game still seems best suited for the 5. Did attempt a three pointer and showed some ability handling the ball, so perhaps he can build on that
D. Ogbole’s still out, but on Chol / Oskar that would be my takeaway — think we’ll be forced to play at least one of them decent mins til Mag is 100% but wouldn’t have high expectations. Oskar is who he is at this point, will need the 3 to be falling to give us anything. On Chol, thought he physically looked the part but the game still appears a little fast for him — momentary lapses on both O and D
E. Yes, think all three can give good minutes at the 1. Would imagine we’ll take a PG by committee approach
F. Yes, apparent the offensive ability is there to do that

Thanks

 

[bitnez]

Exhibition game

This. Yes, Pike would’ve liked to win but he didn’t play it that way once into OT.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I get these williams confused. So a williams will defintely be eligible to play and healthy?

He is a candidate to backup GG if my scenario ends up playing out?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I also think we see GG at 2, Hyatt at 3 for significant minutes in games where matchups favor it. Highly dependent on Chol or Oskar or Wolf playing well enough at the 4 to bump Hyatt to the 3 for some minutes.

I think Pike loves and thrives with lineup/substitution flexibility and it's different this year with smaller guards but he will still maximize it.

How does that work defnesively.

These are all new players so i cant have too much conviction right now……with that being said i know what Hyatt is and i dont want him on the court as a 3. Id say your lineup.screams zone but i hate having Hyatt play zone.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Count me among those very much encouraged by what I'm reading here. I had no inclination of JD being a major contributor this year. That's really exciting that he performed like this!

It’s good and a bit bad. Davis looks like he is going to be very good for RU. Great get by Pike. Very athletic kid who can contribute on both sides of the court immediately. On the flip side, the other guards didn’t really step up enough. It’s only one game so no reason to be alarmed but Noah and Simpson NEED to be very good if this team is going to the tournament.

 

[needmorecowbell]

How does that work defnesively.

These are all new players so i cant have too much conviction right now……with that being said i know what Hyatt is and i dont want him on the court as a 3. Id say your lineup.screams zone but i hate having Hyatt play zone.

There is no reason to play Gavin at the 2. It’s not going to help him if he’s chasing smaller guards around. Play him at the 3 which is a better match up for him on defense and offense. Davis and Simpson are going to play the 2 as much as possible. The only issue is this team has too many 3’s/wings. I think it’s going to be an issue but Pike will figure something out.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Open ended question….
Can noah,jamike, and simpson be on the court at the same time?

Until proven otherwise….i see
1-2 noah jamike derek
3 GG
4 mag (hyatt or chol or oskar)
5 cliff and woolfolk

I believe there were 2 instances when Noah / Davis and Simpson were on the court together yesterday. Also there were 2 instances when Cliff and Wollfolk played together.

 

[BigEastPhil]

For those who were there?

A) any improvement in Cliff’s baby hook
B) much question but that a healthy Mag is our #2 statistical rebounder
C) can Wolf provide good minutes at both 4 and 5
D) impression that anything from Ogbole, Oskar, Chol will be a bonus
E) Derek, J’Mike, and Noah competitive with one another, all capable at the 1
F) You think Gavin can get us 10-5-3 line

A- I think Cliff hit a hook yesterday

C - Wolf is lighter as he lost weight. I still see him as player coming off the bench spelling Cliff. He hoisted a 3 pointer

D - Ogbole - TBD. Oskar is the same - had an awful game yesterday. He started game with first unit. . Chol - played about 10-12 minutes yesterday. Don’t know how much he will contribute but certainly has potential. . TBD.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

There is no reason to play Gavin at the 2. It’s not going to help him if he’s chasing smaller guards around. Play him at the 3 which is a better match up for him on defense and offense. Davis and Simpson are going to play the 2 as much as possible. The only issue is this team has too many 3’s/wings. I think it’s going to be an issue but Pike will figure something out.

Without getting into details …the long term (-!: mayve the shirt term plan ) is to play GG as a guard

If you want to call us a three guard line up…then call it that. But he is not A small forward line akeaski yeboah , or a combo forward like Ron Harper

.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Is there a single team in high major hoops with nobody over 30 mins?

The trend seems to push that direction without looking at 350 roasters

And if we are playing sone guys over 30, it means the bench is reduced and it’s going to be hard to play more than 8

If pike is as concerned about “time of possesion “ by trying to push and play faster …we are going to have to have more balanced minutes without guys taking possessions off ….

 

[Scarlet Shack]

How does that work defnesively.

These are all new players so i cant have too much conviction right now……with that being said i know what Hyatt is and i dont want him on the court as a 3. Id say your lineup.screams zone but i hate having Hyatt play zone.

I think Hyatt is playing half to two thirds of his minutes at the three …

The waaaaay too early projection of minutes “per position “….is (when Mag is back )

Center
Cliff 30
Antoine 10

Power forward
Mawot 24
Aundre 16

Small forward
Aundre 8
Gavin 20
A Williams 12


Shooting guard
Derek 13
Jmike 20
Gavin 7

Point guard
Noah 27
Derek 13

Mpg …with no foul trouble …when mag is back
Cliff 30
Noah 27
Gavin 27
Derek 26
Mawot 24
Aundre 24
Jmike 20
A Williams 13
Antonio 10

This is what I think will happen ….and it’s 9 guys

I’m stock up on Jmike and stock down on A Williams right now …but that could change . They both aren’t going to light up from outside , but Jmike really looks like he is a plus athelte on both ends of the court …and can get all of the way to the rim. Gavin griffths says hello spotting up at the stripe to Jmike (and Derek ans noah)

The issues I have with this will we still need more rebounding with mag at the gettknf 25 mph???

Oskar and chol are not the answer there except for situation periods and I really don’t see wolf being the answer at the four …even Shaq Carter took nearly a year and a half to be able to get the defense into himself to allow him to play the four with Myles ….on defense . I see the same progression time needed with wolf

Of course …if wolf is on the floor mkre as a four (I’m not seeing it , but I’ll defer to pike who is there every day, duh) …someone else isn’t getting minutes in the zero sum game ….

The answer I come back to is will compensate sone by pressing and falling back into a zone more than we have in the past …or just go zone …maybe 12-14 minutes is the hypothesis ….

I’m not unconvinced that mag isn’t going to be more of an efficient offense player than we all expect when healthy …the question is when does that rust get worn off . When it does…I can see him and cliff , fouls willing , being on the court 30 minutes each ….

 

[Scangg]

Without getting into details …the long term (-!: mayve the shirt term plan ) is to play GG as a guard

If you want to call us a three guard line up…then call it that. But he is not A small forward line akeaski yeboah , or a combo forward like Ron Harper

.

Both Yeboah and Harper played the 4 though

I think Hyatt is playing half to two thirds of his minutes at the three …

The waaaaay too early projection of minutes “per position “….is (when Mag is back )

Center
Cliff 30
Antoine 10

Power forward
Mawot 24
Aundre 16

Small forward
Aundre 8
Gavin 20
A Williams 12


Shooting guard
Derek 13
Jmike 20
Gavin 7

Point guard
Noah 27
Derek 13

Mpg …with no foul trouble …when mag is back
Cliff 30
Noah 27
Gavin 27
Derek 26
Mawot 24
Aundre 24
Jmike 20
A Williams 13
Antonio 10

This is what I think will happen ….and it’s 9 guys

I’m stock up on Jmike and stock down on A Williams right now …but that could change . They both aren’t going to light up from outside , but Jmike really looks like he is a plus athelte on both ends of the court …and can get all of the way to the rim. Gavin griffths says hello spotting up at the stripe to Jmike (and Derek ans noah)

The issues I have with this will we still need more rebounding with mag at the gettknf 25 mph???

Oskar and chol are not the answer there except for situation periods and I really don’t see wolf being the answer at the four …even Shaq Carter took nearly a year and a half to be able to get the defense into himself to allow him to play the four with Myles ….on defense . I see the same progression time needed with wolf

Of course …if wolf is on the floor mkre as a four (I’m not seeing it , but I’ll defer to pike who is there every day, duh) …someone else isn’t getting minutes in the zero sum game ….

The answer I come back to is will compensate sone by pressing and falling back into a zone more than we have in the past …or just go zone …maybe 12-14 minutes is the hypothesis ….

I’m not unconvinced that mag isn’t going to be more of an efficient offense player than we all expect when healthy …the question is when does that rust get worn off . When it does…I can see him and cliff , fouls willing , being on the court 30 minutes each ….

You think Simpson is more of a PG than Davis?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Unless Hyatt has a major improvement…..i beleive our success or lack thereof can be seen by the amount of minutes Hyatt plays at the 3.

Not as drastic but very much like we were with Issa.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The reason to play Gavin at the 2 is you want to get a lineup like this on the court:
One Simpson/Noah/JMike
Gavin
One of Hyatt/Mag
One of Chol/Wolf/Oskar/Mag
One of Cliff/Wolf or small ball center

Lots of possibilities
Noah, Gavin, Hyatt, Mag, Cliff
JMike, Gavin, Mag, Chol, Wolf

You'd do this because you want more minutes for any of the guys listed above over Simpson/Noah/JMike, while keeping Gavin on the floor.

We had a 6'7" point guard last season and a 6'4" 2 guard last season and yet people think Gavin is too tall to play guard this season? It's weird. Gavin is quicker and more athletic than either of those two guards from last year.

The real reason is you have the OVER

 

[Scangg]

The reason to play Gavin at the 2 is you want to get a lineup like this on the court:
One Simpson/Noah/JMike
Gavin
One of Hyatt/Mag
One of Chol/Wolf/Oskar/Mag
One of Cliff/Wolf or small ball center

Lots of possibilities
Noah, Gavin, Hyatt, Mag, Cliff
JMike, Gavin, Mag, Chol, Wolf

You'd do this because you want more minutes for any of the guys listed above over Simpson/Noah/JMike, while keeping Gavin on the floor.

We had a 6'7" point guard last season and a 6'4" 2 guard last season and yet people think Gavin is too tall to play guard this season? It's weird. Gavin is quicker and more athletic than either of those two guards from last year.

GG minutes at the 2 take minutes away from Noah Simpson Davis since they are all small guards who can't play the 3 really

There seems to be more competition and talent at the 2 and only an out of position Hyatt or A Williams who can play the 3

 

[RUtrumpet92]

I was going to ask if those at the scrimmage felt we look like a team that can press with this group.

Alternate idea/question: what about a 1-3-1 zone like we did under Wenzel way back when, with Davis underneath like we used Dadika back in the day? Or is the game too different now to get away with that type of D because of too many 3 pt shooters?

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Both Yeboah and Harper played the 4 though


You think Simpson is more of a PG than Davis?

Yes…I’m a bit concerned rhar we have three point guards and only one shooting guard . More so on defnese…but it’s a concern

Can we play these three with that many minute at the two ? I think Pike mist think so , because he brought jerimah Williams who is also a point guard …and Dylan is a point guard ….I am not seeing him looking for a pure two guard …so the recruiting trend suggest they hypothesis

My guess …and this is a guess….is pike is gojng to An offensice system where the guards are interchangeable (at least on offfense)….and he wants guys who can get all the way to the rim without needing a oefext ball screen and still be able to shoot it sone from three

 

[GRU23]

With Mag, this team works out fairly well. It’ll be interesting to see what Pike does with Hyatt, it seems Hyatt has tried to do everything he can to make a big impact this season for the team, but he’s still a bit slow and doesn’t read the game well on either end. We have a very good starting frontcourt in Gavin, Mag and Cliff then a very solid backcourt of 2 of Noah, Derek and JMike. Woolf going to be a great backup, and Hyatt should be a positive as a spark. Williams, Chol and Palm aren’t amazing but at least give us something and a bit of a different look.