Suriano question
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In other words, people, it sounds like we're at the waiver process, and once we are and if the waiver is good, he wrestles here.
If the waiver isn't good, he either has to decide that he wants to give up a year and wrestle here, or go somewhere else and wrestle there for the full three years.
Or I guess he could transfer elsewhere, wrestle a year, transfer here, sit out a year, and have two more years to wrestle? Maybe?
If the waiver isn't good, he either has to decide that he wants to give up a year and wrestle here, or go somewhere else and wrestle there for the full three years.
Or I guess he could transfer elsewhere, wrestle a year, transfer here, sit out a year, and have two more years to wrestle? Maybe?
I haven't seen it mentioned (edit: ironically enough I now see it mentioned above just not as specific and not grad transfer) but obviously he can transfer to any non b1g institution and sit out this or next year. Graduate in 3 or even 3.5 years and come here with 2 or at least 1.5 (the second half of the year obviously the important one) seasons of eligibility.
5 years to wrestle 4, without losing any eligibility. 1 at psu. 1 at whatever U, 1 year redshirt, 2 (or at least 1.5) years at RU.
5 years to wrestle 4, without losing any eligibility. 1 at psu. 1 at whatever U, 1 year redshirt, 2 (or at least 1.5) years at RU.
That is probably workable. However, I am sure he is trying to find somewhere to finish his college career. That path only really makes sense to Rutgers fans.
There is no requirement that the transfer between B1G schools be direct. The language reads that he would still lose a year of eligibility. Not to mention, the NCAA would started getting involved with the second transfer, I believe. But if the B1G (or any other of the Power 5 conferences that have similar rules) would allow this work-around, how much power would their rule have?
What happened to the package that was left on the desk at PSU? Lol
There were a number of red flags on that one. He was called out on BWI for posting false Suriano information in the past, too. This whole episode has been very lacking on credible information. A bit more transparency on the part of the Surianos and a lot less leaking of slanted info by Rutgers to the press and others could have created a lot less drama.
Penn State? At this point, what do they have to do with it? Surely, you're not still sticking with that story that PSU can snap their fingers at the B1G and the waiver will magically appear?
WNG - Please keep posting. You provide informative facts and when circumstances change you let us know. I doubt that anyone knows or understands all that is happening. Both RU and PSU posters have provided wrong info. I believe you have been correct most of the time. But not always. I think you are probably correct when you indicated one party has yet to submit their case. I would hope that all parties would like this to conclude ASAP. I do for the benefit of a 19-20 year old young man.
What info would "one party" (presuming PSU) have to submit? They granted the release. Rest is up to Bob and B1G committee.
What "case" does anyone on here believe PSU has to present? Here is PSU's case: "NS asked for a release from his scholarship. We granted that release." Period. Done. End of story.
And, why do you believe this is solid information, when so much of Bill's info has been protected as "fluid".
You've said that more than once before .... and yet you keep posting. My experience is that when people resort to name calling, they do it because they have nothing of import to say and are grasping at straws. And, yes, I believe Rutgers has used you in this situation and you only know the nonsense they tell you.
"Period. Done. End of story"? Here is the full quote from PSU:
Nick Suriano recently requested a release so that he could transfer to Rutgers. We granted this release. Subject to Big Ten policy, any intra-conference transfer is required to sit for one year before they are again eligible to participate. Nick is open to transfer to Rutgers and will be subject to that school's policies (conference or otherwise) on transfer and eligibility status. We support and work within the Big Ten policy.
Bill's point from the beginning has been that PSU granted the release only to Rutgers knowing that NS doesn't want to lose a year and that PSU doesn't want the Big Ten to grant the waiver. You don't need insider info to know that, look as their own statement...twice they mentioned transferring "to Rutgers", twice they mention they he would be "subject to Big Ten policy" and they even say that NS would be "required to sit for one year". What's the confusion?
And why would they be so clear and public about their opinion if they didn't think it would have an effect? If you said that they were just being aholes they you'd have a sympathetic ear but I think it's clearly more than that.
Not sure what Penn State could be holding up. They released the kid to Rutgers.
If (really freaking big IF) the kid is truly waiting for a wavier determination on a Big10 rule while not enrolled in any Big10 school I can not imagine Penn State needs to do anything as far as the Big10 is concerned. The NCAA release has no bearing on the Big10 other than saying we are OK with kid leaving and attending Rutgers.
If you read the Rutgers wrestling fans' perspective Penn State is also required to add addition effort to apparently give the Big10 a thumbs up or down.
In the world of a Scarlet Knight
1. The Big10 makes rules enforcement determinations for people who are not student-athletes of Big10 schools.
2. The Big10 has transfer rules that are let to the previous school to determine whether or not they shall enforce such rules.
If (really freaking big IF) the kid is truly waiting for a wavier determination on a Big10 rule while not enrolled in any Big10 school I can not imagine Penn State needs to do anything as far as the Big10 is concerned. The NCAA release has no bearing on the Big10 other than saying we are OK with kid leaving and attending Rutgers.
If you read the Rutgers wrestling fans' perspective Penn State is also required to add addition effort to apparently give the Big10 a thumbs up or down.
In the world of a Scarlet Knight
1. The Big10 makes rules enforcement determinations for people who are not student-athletes of Big10 schools.
2. The Big10 has transfer rules that are let to the previous school to determine whether or not they shall enforce such rules.
Exactly and PSU stated that with the press release that Suriano had been granted a release to Rutgers. The released stated that PSU follows the B1G policies and procedures. Basically PSU lets the conference rule on any hardship waivers and does not support or oppose them.
Realistically, Suriano wrestling for Rutgers this season probably helps PSU's NCAA title hopes...Suriano is one of the few wrestlers capable of beating Tomasello and denying Ohio State some valuable team points which looks like will be a very tight race for the team title.
None of the message board heroes have been able to definitively post or provide the documentation regarding the B1G hardship waiver. The Micic waiver took 3 to 4 months to make a decision on, yes the conference should be able to make that decision faster, but they don't have too which actually supports the B1G's position that they do not like intra-conference transfers. Who knows the conference could meet quarterly to decide these issues possibly ruling on several at one time.
Does anyone definitely know if Suraino has to enroll at Rutgers to submit a hardship waiver to the conference?
Do you know if the Suriano's requested a release to any other schools? We do know that two non-D1 schools requested a release and PSU denied it. I assume that if a school does not have a release then they cannot legally contact the Suriano's which might be what they want, else it is the recruiting madness all over again.
Rider and Hofstra could be just speculation based upon the homesickness rumor since they are closer to the Suriano residence than PSU.
The only know facts at this time is that Suriano is not currently enrolled at PSU and has been granted a release to Rutgers by PSU. People cannot even state if Suriano is enrolled at Rutgers.
Bill,
Thanks for the insights - always appreciate you on the round table as well.
Lost in all of this:
1) speculation by RU hopefuls that a waiver can be granted, and
2) the typical condescension of PSU posters that everyone else is an idiot, and they're the only ones capable of higher level of understanding
Is this:
There is a matter of CLASS to be considered here. Optically, he could provide the consent, and look like a classy competitor who wants what is best for the kid, or he can choose another route.
Whether or not it would matter in the waiver process is not the issue to me - that's semantics.
CS demonstrating a true interest in the kid is the issue for me.
Even Jim Harbaugh, as crazy as he is, provided consent for Ahmir Mitchell, who received a waiver.
Any of the arrogant PSU posters want to beat on me, go right ahead. I have a few penn state people that work FOR ME, so I'm confident in my own intelligence.
This is not about the rules, IMO.
It's about CS demonstrating some class.
One poster on the PSU message board (no idea if this is true or not) stated that PSU as policy set by their lawyers neither supports or opposes B1G hardship waivers and lets the conference make the decision on them. Reason is that a consistent policy is needed to avoid possible legal action which could result when these are evaluated on a case by case basis. Legally you run the risk of some suing that PSU supported the waiver for one athlete and not another.
Of course there is the case of Rutgers not granting the release to Tom Savage...but I guess that is different.
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If true, not surprised at PSU following legal advice.
Their recent path certainly suggests that following sound guidance on matters that may become legal issues is good policy. Wish they did it years ago.
On Savage - while many at RU hold Schiano in high regard, that move was as classless as CS here.
See that's the difference here - I'm an RU supporter, and I actually have the capacity to spot something that's not right done by someone at my own school, and call it out.
I'm not going to play gotcha and one-upsmanship.
Assuming it is true that CS and PSU still have the opprtunity to weigh in on this, would you at least agree that neither should "endorse" a hardship waiver if, in their opinion, the fundamental claim(s) for the hardship are based on false/inaccurate allegations about the circumstances?
It seems like none of us (including Mr. Bill -- who talks to Nicky at every practice) actually knows the details of the claim for hardship. Without those details, none of us (including Mr. Bill) should be taking a position on how CS and PSU should be responding.
LOL - you sound like a lawyer.
While I admit to having no insight here (for which some PSU supporter is likely going to try to berate me with something they think sounds like a well fashioned argument than my lowly intellect can't process) my original position is about optics.
I read a fair bit of BWI posts around Sandusky's trial that had posters trying to make legal arguments on behalf of Spanier and others.
What was woefully missed is that the world outside of Penn State alum didn't care. The optics for all of them were terrible, no matter what the PSU community tells itself. In the end, there were four convictions, I believe, so I'm not even sure how well those legal arguments even held up.
The same here. The optics are binary at the moment - it's either a classy move or its not.
When dealing with a well-paid, accomplished, grown man vs a college kid (even one old enough to make his own decisions), the world is going to take pity on the college kid unless it's shown that the kid himself did something egregious - which there doesn't seem to be any evidence of at this time.
If that changes, I'll change my tune.
Until then, it's simply not a good look for CS, legal arguments or not.
The problem with your position is that there is no actual evidence either way in this situation. In other words, no one here knows the true story. As I said earlier, the Surianos could have made everything a lot more transparent but they didn't.
There is a lot of carefully placed innuendo and misinformation aimed at making PSU the bad guy - floated by Rutgers to the press and presumably to Mr. Bill, who dutifully passes it on as fact.
Your entire position is based on wild speculation and misinformation, so your "tune" is based on what you want to believe.
Also, the only people who seem to be bothered by purported treatment of Suriano are Rutgers fans (and maybe Jay Bilas for one knee-jerk, unconsidered moment).
The only actual facts known by anyone are that Suriano waited until August to request a release and that Penn State granted that release in a timely fashion. Everything else is conjecture.
What has Cael done? From the PSU press release it can be inferred that PSU would neither support or oppose a hardship waiver request.
Your saying this is a bad look for Cael when you do not know why he may or may not support a hardship waiver request. If PSU lawyers block any PSU input into a waiver request, what can Cael do? Without knowledge of the basis for the waiver request how can someone judge PSU or Cael for not supporting it? If the request was for improper medical treatment, certainly PSU is not going to support such a waiver.
Everyone likes to throw Cael and PSU under the bus, however the only known fact is that Suriano requested a release to Rutgers and it was granted. We have no idea what the B1G policy and procedures are for ruling on a waiver request. No idea what PSU's policy and procedures are for supporting or opposing such a request. We have no idea why Suriano left PSU, lots of speculation. We have no idea how many other schools Suriano requested a release too.
Lots of opinions being formed based upon speculation and very little facts. As previously posted, Suriano wrestling this year at 125 for Rutgers could help PSU in the title race. Thus it would be in Cael's best interest from a team race perspective to support such a request.
Last year Micic applied for his hardship waiver in August, B1G ruled on it in November and that was with Northwestern supporting the waiver. B1G moves at its own pace and not at the athlete's pace.
How do you get that? You make it sound like PSU said "NS has asked for a release which we have granted. We wish him luck". But that is not what they said. Here is the PSU statement again:
Nick Suriano recently requested a release so that he could transfer to Rutgers. We granted this release. Subject to Big Ten policy, any intra-conference transfer is required to sit for one year before they are again eligible to participate. Nick is open to transfer to Rutgers and will be subject to that school's policies (conference or otherwise) on transfer and eligibility status. We support and work within the Big Ten policy.
Short of saying "we do not support a waiver" I'm not sure how they could be more clear that they support the Big Ten policy as it stands. They even say that NS "is required to sit for one year before they are again eligible to participate". Why be so specific about the Big Ten policy and their support of it?
Looks like the time for being nice and welcoming visitors is over. Honestly, if you start becoming combatitive in your posts, you will be thrown out. There's too much crap on the boards right now from the PSU side. As for the Rutgers side, it's a Rutgers board.
I can think of a couple of reasons.
1. Because of the crap that was being leaked out of RU wrestling and being reported by lazy reporters.
2. Because Mr. Suriano overplayed his hand, and was trying to show Cael/PSU who's boss.
3. Because the Surianos shared what claims would be made in the waiver request and PSU/Cael disagreed with the claims.
4. Because PSU/Cael thought it would be bad form to tell the world they disagree with their league's policy.
Mitchell's hardship waiver claimed he had family issues back home in NJ. Can you provide a link that says Harbaugh did anything more than offer the release? I'm sure if Suriano had family issues, Cael would support the waiver. Besides all that, Mitchell was suspended at the time, so Harbaugh may have been happy to be rid of him.
I wasn't speculating about why they do not support the waiver, only that I think their statement makes it clear that they do not.
Well, it is a Rutgers board on a Rivals platform, which is inherently set up to allow for exchanges between rival fan bases. Now, if a Rutgers poster addresses a fan base as "you people are such aholes", that pretty much invites combative posting from the fan base.
Yeah, I get that some arguments precede that event, but it's not like PSU fans are the only guilty party.
Read the other threads, and you'll see that I have told opposing fans that they're welcome to post here. Rivals platform or not, I still have all the ability in the world to have the board run the way I want it to run. When stuff gets personal, yeah, I'm sure some of our posters will spout off. As a mod, there's a number of Rutgers fans I've dealt with on this board that get in trouble for going over the top. That said, it's going to be different for Rutgers posters than it is for outside posters. Don't be a dick and I won't care that an outside person is here. Start being combatitive, and I have no reason to keep that person around.
This site has pretty low traffic volume for wrestling talk. If anything, I would have thought an uptick in that traffic (and number of users) would be welcomed, even if part of the uptick was fueled by people being "dicks". Who knows how many RU lurkers may finally be triggered to start posting, and then make it habit.
I would probably try to look at the big picture and how an internet forum can foster more interest/awareness of a sport and a program, and try to swallow some of the bad with the good. There is combativeness, there is badgering, there is over-the-top emotional outburst, and there is single-minded trolling. Given all that, general combativeness seems relatively healthy, IMO. Isolationism may seem comfortable, but probably not progressive or healthy.
We talk wrestling on not only the Other Sports board, but the Round Table and Football board as well during the season. You're right, it's not a big board. The only two free boards that are that big are the football and mens' basketball board. But trust me when I say that we have gone out of our way to promote men's wrestling on this site, to the point where our head writers write about the sport in season now. I'm not going to compare it to other boards or compare our fanbase to other fanbases because it's such a new sport at Rutgers (in the sense that we only started to care about it when Goodale came aboard during Scott Winston's freshman year). That being said, I think we do well in discussion, inside info, and analysis, when you add up the different people on the board (guys like Bill, Josh, obrats, etc). I can guarantee you there's been a ton of new wrestling season ticket holders on this board due to the promotion we've been doing. It's almost to the point where we're getting close to basketball season ticket holders (which is a bit sad in other ways).
As for allowing outsiders, that's always happened, and it still does. I think I can count on one hand right now how many posters in this thread I've banned. Wrestling doesn't drive the site though. All repetitive arguments do is frustrate the people who do post here regularly. Many PSU posters aren't listening to what is being discussed at all by other posters here. And when we have information contrary to what has been said, people just revert back to their main talking points, because most of them don't know anything about the situation more than what they can read in a rulebook. It's the way some people come across as being obnoxious calling out people like Bill that we know have been involved in our program for years and has no benefit in lying to us. Nobody's afraid to hear that chances are Suriano won't be at Rutgers next year. Most of the discussion has been to see what chance we have despite the rules in place, because those rules aren't hard and fast like people have been trying to claim.
Oh lordy. I don't know why anyone from Rutgers is bothering to deal with these guys. This is like Round 10 of this conversation, with no new information. Were you guys not around for the defense of JoePa?? They will never, ever concede or stop arguing. They are like the Japanese at Guadalcanal.
