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This is a completely different team

seels2662

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I see people say that they cannot see us being close to .500 because we were a 7 win team last year, and that every team in the league is better than us last year and probably this year.

I cannot disagree more. This team is not even close to what it was last year. If you would make a checklist of the top 10 or 15 things that were bad with this team last year Pikiell has addressed it and replaced it with something better. And the few good things that were good he kept. Yes we could be a better shooting team, but this is not a final 4 team. But this team certainly has .500 potential.

When you make your seasons predictions, throw out anything you saw last year. It is nothing like that team. What did they call it..oh yeah its night and day from what we had.
 
I really like Coach Pikiell and the staff that has been assembled here. Hard not to have at least some optimism going forward. That written, the hardest thing to find in CBB is guys who can put the ball in the basket.i just don't see where we have enough of that skill. I do think we will be a pain in the arse defensively before the season is out.
 
Well for one we have Sanders, he can put the ball in the basket. I think the wildcard is Johnson, if he really is a scorer then I think we have plenty enough to score. But even if he is average, that is where I think Pikiell will step in. There are plenty of teams that can win without having that dominant scorer. If we can get say 10 points out of the center as Shack have been saying, 15 from the PF and SF spots, and then 30 from the three guards I think we can have enough points without a big star.
 
I am cautiously optimistic because while there is a chance that we will be much better than last year there are also many unproven parts. Additionally, if the new guys show that they can play, it may take some time for everyone to gel and build chemistry. Nonetheless, it should be better than last year and the future is bright!
 
This team can't be compared to last year's team in any way.

This team also has a ton of unknowns....
- first court action for Sa, Omoruyi, Bullock, Thiam
- first court action in over a year for Doorson and Johnson
- first court action in nearly a year for Freeman, who hasn't yet played a conference game

The only players who were on the court during our final games last year are: Sanders, Williams, Laurent, and Diallo... and Sanders is probably the only one who'll be playing 30+ minutes.

Very hard to judge how well this team will do.
 
I see people say that they cannot see us being close to .500 because we were a 7 win team last year, and that every team in the league is better than us last year and probably this year.

I cannot disagree more. This team is not even close to what it was last year. If you would make a checklist of the top 10 or 15 things that were bad with this team last year Pikiell has addressed it and replaced it with something better. And the few good things that were good he kept. Yes we could be a better shooting team, but this is not a final 4 team. But this team certainly has .500 potential.

When you make your seasons predictions, throw out anything you saw last year. It is nothing like that team. What did they call it..oh yeah its night and day from what we had.

Need to have realistic expectations for this group. Last time Rutgers finished the regular season at or above .500 was 05/06 in Gary Waters final season (came close a couple of times...Fred Hill's last year, and when Mike Rice was the coach). There's a lot of pieces to like...it'll be a fun season.

The OOC scheduling helps (which it did for previous .500 seasons also), overall record is less important to me than how they look in conference games. Don't have to win most, but the team needs to look like they belong.

This isn't a conference that caters to overnight success.

With all of that said I think there's a lot of talent in place. I'd just rather be surprised with an "everything goes right" scenario than expect it.
 
Need to have realistic expectations for this group. Last time Rutgers finished the regular season at or above .500 was 05/06 in Gary Waters final season (came close a couple of times...Fred Hill's last year, and when Mike Rice was the coach). There's a lot of pieces to like...it'll be a fun season.

The OOC scheduling helps (which it did for previous .500 seasons also), overall record is less important to me than how they look in conference games. Don't have to win most, but the team needs to look like they belong.

This isn't a conference that caters to overnight success.

With all of that said I think there's a lot of talent in place. I'd just rather be surprised with an "everything goes right" scenario than expect it.
This is a smart post.

I will have threads in the future to go through this in detail, but...

If we go 10-3 OOC (basically no slip-ups),
Take advantage of the fact we play Northwestern and PSU 4 times,
Pull off one upset (I mean cmon Waters, FHJ, Rice and even Jordan had upsets),
En rout to a 6-12 conference record,

that is the formula for a .500 record.
 
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NWestern is well coached and demolished RU last year.....it will take a significant jump on defensive stat sheet/measurements to get to a B1G standard.

If Thiam steps up and provides some offense in OOC games, the question will be whether he can defend without fouling.

There are so many If's that it's really going to come down to the staff/scouting opponents and getting Sa and Freeman to defend very well and rebound.

I think we will get all three of these items periodically, but if we get Alvarado and most if not all the players are back in 2017-18, that would be the time to raise expectations. I think .500 is feasible, but I'm more interested in how we improve from November through February/early March. If that happens, RU will be set up nicely going forward. One thing is certain, RU WILL land players in recruiting now with this staff.....and they will defend or they won't play much.
 
NWestern is well coached and demolished RU last year.

But you can't really compare to last year, and certainly not to that game.

The starters were: Daniels, Williams, Goode, Laurent, and Lewis. Goode played 23 minutes, and Lewis was limited to 15. Sanders was out, and it was Diallo's first game back in the lineup. 134 minutes (67%) were played by guys who aren't on the roster anymore.

Not saying we'll win the game... but this is a completely different team than played Northwestern last year.
 
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A far better coaching staff and a very easy out of conference schedule are the two best aspects of this teams potential for more wins.Inconsistent scoring has been the downfall in the past and must be improved in the future especially in the front court.
 
I'm excited again. Just the thought of defense, playing smarter, and better coaching gives me hope for a better basketball experience at Rutgers FINALLY.
 
We need to score in the post. Can Freeman get us 10-12 ppg? After him, what will someone like Gettys, Diallo, or Shaq provide on O? We need to be able to get easy buckets close to the rim. Any team that wants to win needs to get easy buckets and force their opponent to work hard on O. I'm hoping a guy like Thiam develops a nice touch over his career here.
 
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I think our range will be somewhere from 13-16 wins. If healthy.

We have greater chances to stay healthy this year.
 
We need to score in the post. Can Freeman get us 10-12 ppg? After him, what will someone like Gettys, Diallo, or Shaq provide on O? We need to be able to get easy buckets close to the rim. Any team that wants to win needs to get easy buckets and force their opponent to work hard on O. I'm hoping a guy like Thiam develops a nice touch over his career here.

Gettys is a player who thrives in a pick and roll. Shaq will probably provide 6 and 5 this year. Diallo maybe 4 and 5. Gettys 7 and 5. Thiam will be a 15 ppg player by the end of his career here. To make sure he has a career here, the team must win to stay together for four years.

I am hopeful.
 
Need to have realistic expectations for this group. Last time Rutgers finished the regular season at or above .500 was 05/06 in Gary Waters final season (came close a couple of times...Fred Hill's last year, and when Mike Rice was the coach). There's a lot of pieces to like...it'll be a fun season.

The OOC scheduling helps (which it did for previous .500 seasons also), overall record is less important to me than how they look in conference games. Don't have to win most, but the team needs to look like they belong.

This isn't a conference that caters to overnight success.

With all of that said I think there's a lot of talent in place. I'd just rather be surprised with an "everything goes right" scenario than expect it.



Please explain, me from planet RU. What this "'everything goes right'" mean. Cockamamie stuff!
 
the program still has the least talent in the league. I consider 13-18 to be a successful season. The program needs to learn how to win first. The core players are still the ones that couldnt win many games. New additions will help but just how much. Pencilling wins against Northwestern and Penn State who will also be improved is a recipe for disappointment. I am excited for the new direction but being realistic on how much Pikiell can accomplish in just one off season
 
We definitely need to improve on our 3 point shooting. Last year Sanders shot 31.5% on 3's and Williams shot 31.6%. We have been told that Johnson and Thiam are decent 3 point shooters. I hope that is true but I really don't know for sure. I think Williams and Sanders both must hit at least 35% this season on their 3's. If all 4 guys can do that we might be alright. If we can score more points near the basket we might give our outside shooters a little more space.
 
The only pieces that played for the majority of last year that we're returning in the same positions are Sanders and Williams.

By minutes played
905 - Sanders, back at PG
869 - Daniels, gone
867 - Williams, back at SG
839 - Foreman, gone
655 - Laurent, moving from the 4/5 to the 3
654 - Lewis, gone
652 - Grier, gone
421 - Goode, gone
219 - Diallo, back at C
197 - Freeman, back at PF
84 - Dadika, back as walk on
65 - Batie, back as walk on
41 - Hyde, gone

Yes, there's still a talent gap - but this really is a completely different team from last year. We're probably going to make the biggest leap forward of any Big Ten team in terms of "talent on the floor".
 
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Optimistic......

Hunger factor...especially on defense....will determine a lot for this year...
 
The only pieces that played for the majority of last year that we're returning in the same positions are Sanders and Williams.

By minutes played
905 - Sanders, back at PG
869 - Daniels, gone
867 - Williams, back at SG
839 - Foreman, gone
655 - Laurent, moving from the 4/5 to the 3
654 - Lewis, gone
652 - Grier, gone
421 - Goode, gone
219 - Diallo, back at C
197 - Freeman, back at PF
84 - Dadika, back as walk on
65 - Batie, back as walk on
41 - Hyde, gone

Yes, there's still a talent gap - but this really is a completely different team from last year. We're probably going to make the biggest leap forward of any Big Ten team in terms of "talent on the floor".

Looking at the minutes a little more closely...
3904 minutes (60%) by guards (Sanders/Daniels/Williams/Grier/Goode/Dadika/Batie/Hyde)
655 minutes (10%) by a small forward (Laurent)
1909 minutes (30%) by bigs (Foreman/Lewis/Diallo/Freeman)

That breakdown should be a bit closer to 40/20/40 this year. Given the same number of overall minutes (~6500), that would work out to
~2600 min for Sanders/Johnson/Williams/Bullock
~1300 min for Laurent/Thiam/Omoruyi/Bullock
~2600 min for Freeman/Gettys/Doorson/Diallo/Sa

Just rebalancing the team and allowing players to play in position all season, we should see improvement. Improving the talent playing those minutes (especially at the 3-5 spots) and better coaching, we should also see improvement.

We'll certainly be the most transformed team in the conference from last year to this year... what that spins out to in terms of W/L, who knows.
 
New coaches bring optimism. There is a good chance we are a much better product to watch on the floor this year - heck, in basketball and football - but still an even better chance that the teams will finish at the bottom of the conference or very close to it. This is not to say the future is not bright. 2016 is the year of building momentum.
 
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Yes, we're a different team, since half our roster is new (and our best players return).

But at the same time, there are a ton of returners and top newcomers on teams around the league/country. That's a downside in being in a great conference.

Hopefully some of these guys will step up and lead us back into relevance. Hell, I'll even take NIT. Just make the games worth watching, and pull an upset now and then!
 
[QUOTE="RUChoppin, post: 2279255, member: 2738]

Yes, there's still a talent gap - but this really is a completely different team from last year. We're probably going to make the biggest leap forward of any Big Ten team in terms of "talent on the floor".[/QUOTE]

Penn State is bringing in a Top25 National recruiting class that includes two consensus 4* players and two very good 3* players. But I get your point. This team will be better from a talent standpoint.
 
Penn State is bringing in a Top25 National recruiting class that includes two consensus 4* players and two very good 3* players. But I get your point. This team will be better from a talent standpoint.

When saying we're going to be making the biggest leap forward, you have to consider our starting position. We weren't just 7-25, we were a bad 7-25. PA St is bringing in a strong class, but they weren't getting their doors blown off last year. They're also swapping their leading scorer/rebounder while bringing in those 4 players.

We're essentially adding an 8-man class to the roster for next year (Freeman, Johnson, Doorson, Gettys, Sa, Thiam, Bullock, Omoruyi) while also keeping our best player and getting Laurent back at his natural position, rather than having to cover the 4/5. And going from the shortest "on court" conference team last year to the tallest is a pretty dramatic shift.

We have a deep, deep hole to climb out of... we could probably be the most improved conference team and still finish near the bottom of the conference.
 
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We will be vastly improved. And we will still have a losing record. But this is the deep hole Jordan left us in.

We clearly have a real coach now though. Sit back and enjoy.
 
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Yeah the new coach has showed me just how inept Eddie is. IMo opinion we were basically "coachless".

If we just play smarter.....no long periods of ineptitude....win out OOCs and surprise a team or two...I will be happy.

I long for the days when the RAC was packed with rabid fans, we set attendance records, were FEARED as a place to play and we beat ranked teams on occaision.....AKA The Waters Years......

I look forward to "The Pikiel Years"
 
That would be nice. I loved the days with the Bobsicles, the picture of Bob Wenzel on a stick leading up to the 1989 Atlantic 10 championship win over Penn State. The RAC was the place to be at that time. Bobsicles were always picked up by the TV cameras.
 
So, just looking at who we've lost, and who we have coming in to replace those minutes:

At guard, we're losing Daniels, Goode, and Grier... but keeping Sanders/Williams.
Last year: Sanders and Williams accounted for 1772 minutes, so we're looking for about 900 more minutes at the guard position, since a lot of Daniels/Grier's minutes were spent at the SF spot.
This year: Expectations are that time will come mostly from Johnson, with possibly some time from Bullock. Our guard rotation will be focused on guard minutes, though, without having to double over nearly as much to SF.

At small forward, we're losing no one...and getting Laurent back in his natural position, plus Thiam, Omoruyi, and Bullock.
Last year: We had a platoon of guards at the SF spot, usually Grier and Daniels, with Laurent taking up some minutes during rare stretches with two bigs in the game.
This year: We'll have Laurent, Thiam, Bullock, and Omoruyi competing for time on the wing... which is a huge step up at that position, mostly because we were mostly having smaller guards play out of position last year but also with an expected upgrade in talent.

At power forward, we're losing Foreman... but getting Freeman back from injury, and Sa.
Last year: We were mostly seeing Laurent for most of the season, playing out of position. Freeman looked good for the first 8 games, but we lost him for the rest of the season... and Foreman had some time there once Diallo came back and we could have two bigs on the court at the same time. Still, we probably had a true PF in that position less than 30% of the time.
This year: We'll be seeing Freeman and Sa sharing minutes, with possibly some time from one or more SFs if we go small or one of the Cs if we go big. This is also a huge step up at this position, mostly because we were undersized at this spot most of the year last year but also because we'll have much more flexibility to go big/small at different points.

At center, we're losing Lewis... but gaining Gettys and Doorson, and a healthy Diallo.
Last year: We had an ailing Lewis and out-of-position Foreman for most of the season, with Diallo coming in later in the season off his injury. We even had Laurent at the five some of the time. We really didn't have a healthy true center for most of the year, and were constantly battling foul trouble even once Diallo came back.
This year: We'll have a rotation of Gettys, Doorson, and Diallo at center, allowing us to pretty much always have size in the middle... while also maintaining size at the PF spot. That's an upgrade in performance over Lewis (because of his injury) and Foreman (who was out of position), but also gets rid of the foul trouble issues.

We're basically keeping our best player at the PG spot, expecting a slight improvement to the minutes at SG, and expecting a huge improvement in the productivity of our minutes at the 3, 4, and 5. And that ignores the likely improvement in overall quality of play with the switch to a staff made up of Pikiell / Hobbs / Knight / Young (and even just the ability for the players to run complete practices without a short/injured roster).

Expecting leaps and bounds improvement in the quality of the product on the court this year - truly a night and day difference. Will that translate to wins immediately? That remains to be seen. (As an example, we could lose @Purdue by 18, and that'd be a massive improvement over losing by 50 at home... but it'd still be a loss).

Excited to see the team play this season - more excited than I have been in years. Really hoping we can get a strong start against a manageable OOC schedule to get some media buzz going and get people back to the RAC... this team could really use a little home court advantage this year.
 
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Our guards are likely our surest position group. Lots of experience there and some excitement for the different facets of the game. We can break guys down off the dribble. We can shoot from distance. The only thing that worries me is how we'll do going up against taller guards? That being said, we can always just stick a guy like Laurent on them. Our depth at each position allows for a lot of lineups.

The interesting part about this year is that we have a ton of unknowns. Ask for a breakdown of PPG, and a lot of people have Thiam in the 5-8 range. BK has said he have the most potential and talent on the team. What if he breaks out and provides us with that athletic 3 & D player that we haven't had in ages?

People think our centers could put in 40 minutes and collect a few buckets and rebounds here and there. I don't think people realize just how bad we had it last year and how much of an improvement having 3-4 healthy guys who can play the position is. It's been noted in other threads ... we have the biggest front court in the league. It'll be nice to use that to our advantage. Remember, this is a position where experience is a huge help. We replace a great ambassador in Lewis with another one in Gettys, who has NCAA starting experience and is now a grad. Diallo was clueless as a frosh. He's had two years since then. Doorson, same thing. Experience. Experience. Experience. Size.

Same goes for the PF spot. While I'm not expecting miracles, I do expect close to a double double (10 & 8) from Freeman. I expect shutdown D from Sa. I see a big improvement here.

I'm excited. Which is a lot more than I could say about the past few years.
 
The interesting part about this year is that we have a ton of unknowns.

100% agree with your full post, but wanted to comment on this one line.

This is also really exciting - because these are the good kind of unknowns.

"Who will get the lion's share of the minutes at SF?"
Instead of...
"Which guard will fill in minutes at SF because the only SF on our roster is playing PF?"

"Which center is going to step up?"
Instead of...
"Who will fill in minutes at center with Doorson/Diallo out, Lewis limping, and Foreman on the bench with two early fouls?"
 
As long as Daniels is not on the team any longer, this team will be better.
 
I'm optimistic about this team. It will perform better than last year.

But don't kid yourself, it's a tough row to hoe. As soon as we have a blowout or unexpected loss the naysayers will come out of the woodwork == with a vengeance.

Stay positive, enjoy the good and when the bad shows up don't get too down and believe that the coaching staff can correct it. Things won't go up in a straight line.
 
So true. We need to be positive and watch us improve over time. Rome was not built in a day.
 
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