When to start fertalizing the lawn ??? (2016 thread)

[RUaMoose]

Tenacity (mesotrione) will take Nimblewill out. Please follow the label, though, since it is very powerful and is fine if used as directed but can adversely impact desirable turf if not used properly. Not cheap either but a little goes a long way. It's based on the natural effect of the bottle brush plant. Note that it can bleach desirable turf temporarily. This is a product that the base use is 4 oz an acre so you don't want to be imprecise.

Phs,

What's your recommendation for controlling Creeping Charlie or ground ivy? I have it in certain parts of my yard along one neighbor's PL. Been waging war on it for years now with decent results (not near as bad as it was) but would like to totally eradicate the enemy from my lawn.

 

[G- RUnit]

since we are on the lawn topic, best thing I have found to fight grubs is Milky Spore. It blows away everything else and 1 application lasts a few years.

Is Milky Spore a stripper?

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Phs,

What's your recommendation for controlling Creeping Charlie or ground ivy? I have it in certain parts of my yard along one neighbor's PL. Been waging war on it for years now with decent results (not near as bad as it was) but would like to totally eradicate the enemy from my lawn.

Moose, Weed Be Gone CCO will take care of creeping Charlie. Make sure it's the CCO version with the active ingredient Triclopyr. The crab grass WBG that doesn't have Triclopyr won't do it. You'll need two or three apps but just follow the label. You get get that at Home Depot or Lowes (some of the other products mentioned in this thread are harder to get and not available at the big box stores.)

 

[RU'70]

Phs: What is your recommendation for getting rid of Nutsedge? I used SedgeHammer (sp?) several years ago and last year I bought Nutsedge killer at HomeDepot but they don't seem to do much of anything

 

[gef21]

Get rid of the lawns. Raised garden beds with vegetables. I can grow tomatillos and figs but grass is a failure on my part.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Phs: What is your recommendation for getting rid of Nutsedge? I used SedgeHammer (sp?) several years ago and last year I bought Nutsedge killer at HomeDepot but they don't seem to do much of anything

Sedgehammer should work but it will take multiple applications and maybe even a couple years to totally get rid of it. The ortho product is good to, and if you have Tenacity that'll work (more expensive, though). I'd go with sedgehammer if you have it and keep after it. As always, follow the label.

 

[Knight Shift]

Sedgehammer should work but it will take multiple applications and maybe even a couple years to totally get rid of it. The ortho product is good to, and if you have Tenacity that'll work (more expensive, though). I'd go with sedgehammer if you have it and keep after it. As always, follow the label.

Besides what RUPinehurst said, anything to get rid of voles (not moles)?

What about moss that is mixed in with grass? Our backyard has a lot of shade

 

[RUinPinehurst]

Besides what RUPinehurst said, anything to get rid of voles (not moles)?

What about moss that is mixed in with grass? Our backyard has a lot of shade

Oh, yes: a nasty cat or two. ;)

 

[Knight Shift]

Oh, yes: a nasty cat or two. ;)

We have tried various things, including the mousetraps as suggested. We have neighborhood cats that roam our yard. For some reason, these things are all over the place in our town.

 

[newell138]

Any advice on how to deal with voles (not moles)? They tunnel around our yard making a lot of tripping hazards. Do we need to eliminate their food source, or eliminate them? And what do we use? Never encountered this until we moved to Rumson.

I was always under the impression that those types (voles) would not be allowed in Rumson

 

[RUinPinehurst]

We have tried various things, including the mousetraps as suggested. We have neighborhood cats that roam our yard. For some reason, these things are all over the place in our town.

It's been an ongoing war (of attrition) for us, constantly waged. I've found the most effective repellants have a 20% concentration of castor oil. So this spring, we're upping the offensive: I'm planting a few Castor bushes here and there, and have been advised to ground up some bean pods and scatter. That said, these beans are also very toxic to small mammals. So, in your case, your neighbors' cats may stop, you know, living. Seriously, take care should you experiment with the Castor plants.

When I'm dealing with "our" voles, I cannot help but think of Bill Murray's character in CaddyShack and his comical dealings trying to annihilate those damned gophers.

 

[Knight Shift]

It's been an ongoing war (of attrition) for us, constantly waged. I've found the most effective repellants have a 20% concentration of castor oil. So this spring, we're upping the offensive: I'm planting a few Castor bushes here and there, and have been advised to ground up some bean pods and scatter. That said, these beans are also very toxic to small mammals. So, in your case, your neighbors' cats may stop, you know, living. Seriously, take care should you experiment with the Castor plants.

When I'm dealing with "our" voles, I cannot help but think of Bill Murray's character in CaddyShack and his comical dealings trying to annihilate those damned gophers.

I accidentally stepped on a nest of them in our yard. Seems they nest in mulch beds. Our neighbors yard is a jungle of English ivy, and I suspect they are coming from their yard.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

Try the corn gluten product from Jonathan Green.

shouldn't our lawns be gluten free? LOL

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

I agree with Pinehurst on the castor oil pellets for voles.

Moss is usually the sign of an underlying problem so while you can get a product to get rid of it, it will likely return until you deal with the cause. A soil test is a good step and they'll give you some recommendations. Causes are usually some combination of poor soil fertility, poor drainage, compact soil, lots of shade.

Identifying grassy weeds, broadleaf weeds, and sedges can be tricky but ther are some common ones in any region so it's not like you need to identify every weed in the world. Grassy weeds (e.g., crab grass, quack grass, triv, etc.) and grasses in general are identified by their characteristics (e.g., leaf and blade type and shape, vernation, ligule, auricles, how it grows or spreads, seeds, and so forth). Broad leaf weeds are identified by leaf shape, leaf configuration, color, flower, etc. Sedges have a triangular stem. There are some good identification tools and pictures online at many of the turf mgt schools.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Too bad, I had a whole thread on it step by step, but because it's under the old forum format, it's not recoverable.

Just to give you an idea of what I did - Before:

After:

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Spanky, I'll give you my two cents, Rock and others may weigh in too. If it were me I would:

Get a soil test from RU, they will tell you if there is a soil problem and give you recommendations to improve the soil.

Consider limbing up some trees if possible to increase light and air flow

Select a seed that does well in shade, fine fescues generally do well in shade. Different cultivars of other types do well for their type. Look at the NTEP trials at RU.

If there is a compact soil problem you can use a liquid aeration or you can use a mechanical one.


Since you want to overseed rather than nuke and start anew, I'd mow the existing grass down gradually to about 1.5 inches--you may not need to do this based on your photo. If you do need to, mow no more than 1/3 length at a time.

Rake

You can seed manually in a perpendicular fashion, you can rent a slit seeder if you want but don't have to.

Seed down (I might wait a couple weeks), you can top dress with compost or not (some don't like peat but I think it's fine if you water it in). If you use straw be sure it's weed free, there are synthetic products that help with runoff too.

Water, at first every day 2 or 3 times, for 15 minutes for a week or two. If the area were in sun you'd be watering even more frequently. For shade, then cut back e.g., 20 minutes once a day for a week, 40 minutes every other day for a week or so, to 45 minutes once a week. These are rough estimates because it depends on the soil, sunlight, temp, etc. Google watering overseede turf. The idea is to keep soil moist but not saturated until germination. The key concept is less frequent but deeper watering after the grass gets established.

When the new seedlings are 2.5 or 3 inches you want to cut it. Cutting frequently encourages tillering. Never cut more than 1/3 of the grass height. A problem with overseeing is that existing grass will grow more than seedlings so you need to judge when to cut.

You can fertilize with starter or wait a few weeks until the seedlings grow a bit and are able to take up the nutrients. This is a short/abbreviated summary. The turf mgt sites at universities have more in depth and detailed steps. You can call the university extension sites to get ideas (RU, NCS, Purdue, OSU, Purdue, and others have good info online. I'm trying to give you my two cents in a brief post but there is a lot to this and you might do some further research.

 

[ScarletEd]

That's not easy. I'm going to preface this with these are my opinions. I tackled that last year and so far so good but this isn't a one time shot. Fenoxaprop is what I used, the brand being Acclaim Extra. Please note this is something you should closely follow the label--it will damage desirable turf if not used properly. This is a herbicide that is generally used by pros, although you can purchase it for residential use. I did two apps of fenoxaprop at 30 days apart, with a preemergence such as dithiopyr for a couple cycles. I did this last summer and will do the PM again this year. Japanese stilt grass germinates in August so timing is important. It tends to grow at boarders of wooded area where there is a lot of moisture. Again, If you do this yourself please read the label carefully and measure precisely. This is a multi year battle as far as I understand, and that seems to be right. Last thought, make sure you are sure it's Japanese stilt grass and not nimblewill, which are sometimes confused. The latter is easier to deal with.

I just ordered Acclaim- Extra from Amazon: very expensive but worth it if it works. Right now, it is a tan color in patches in parts of my lawn. Do I make an application now to kill it? Or when it turns green and starts to grow and spread?

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

I just ordered Acclaim- Extra from Amazon: very expensive but worth it if it works. Right now, it is a tan color in patches in parts of my lawn. Do I make an application now to kill it? Or when it turns green and starts to grow and spread?

https://njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/fs1237/

Ed, the link above is Rutgers Fact Sheer 1237 regarding Japanese stilt grass. Note that it mentions fenoxaprop as being for professional use only, however, it is now available for homeowner residential use and for use in controlling JSG. Please read the label of Acclaim Extra and follow it closely if you are going to apply it. The label is 12 pages for a reason and you need to be precise in application, measurement, sprayer calibration, etc. If you are not comfortable you might have a licensed professional (I am not) apply it. As per my earlier post, it should be used in a program that also uses a preemergence. The preemergence should be in the spring and provide coverage through June. As a post emergent herbicide, fenoxaprop needs to me used when the plant is actively growing as per label. Finally, JSG is often confused with Nimblewill and creeping bent grass, neither of which will be controlled by fenoxaprop. I encourage anyone who wants to use herbicides (particularly specialized ones you can't but at Home Depot) to access the label and read it carefully (Google online) before purchase and application. Note if your existing turf is tolerant of thespecificherbicide and determine if you have the equipment and experience base to apply it. It also isn't always easy to identify a weed, which can lead to the wrong treatment program. These herbicides can be great tools but require diligent adherence to the label and exacting processes. Good luck!

 

[mildone]

I have found that two applications, one in early April, one in early May is ideal. I hire a couple hookers who spread an 80/20 blend of pure cocaine and Scotts weed & feed across the lawn for each application. Of course the real key is to ensure that the hookers use a classic criss-cross application pattern. Otherwise you get spotting or lines.

 

[ru78]

Manana

 

[hiwater]

When does everyone usually start this? I was thinking right around Tax Day 4/15, but with the warmer weather I'm not so sure. Is it like plants, where if you plant them early and there's a freeze they can die? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Pre-emergent should already be down. Late March to the first week in April is usually good, but it got warm so quickly and it's staying warm.

 

[hiwater]

I never put down the pre-emergent. I just never saw any benefit. I usually hit it with 10-10-10 in early April then I do the liquid weed kill with the hose once the dandelions emerge a week or two later. When it warms up I put down straight insect control. Finally, around August I put down weed and feed and I'm more or less done. I have a Creeping Charlie problem so a lot of times I'll do the liquid weed bgon max late Oct so as to weaken it right before winter hits

I've noticed a big difference when I don't do pre-emergent. The couple of times that I didn't do pre-emergent in the flower beads in the rocks or mulched area, weeds went nuts. I apply preen once a month now, and I don't have to devote much time to pulling weeds.

 

[C0bra Kai]

Gotta question for you guys.

I have MAJOR crabgrass problems every Summer so I'm going to try a pre-emergent like Halts... but I also have to seed a few bare areas on the lawn and I'd like to overseed also.

My question I guess is on timing. When would you recommend I start the seeding, and then pre-emergent. Don't want to wait too long on putting down the pre-emergent, but want to give the need seed enough time to grow... but also not sure if it's too early to seed.

Was planning on using a sun-shade mix seed that has perennial rye and some bluegrass... so germination should be on the quicker side.

Also have cinchbug issues that I have to treat for... not sure the best time to treat the lawn for that either. Google has a bunch of info but not necessarily NJ specific data.

 

[jlariv9]

Gotta question for you guys.

I have MAJOR crabgrass problems every Summer so I'm going to try a pre-emergent like Halts... but I also have to seed a few bare areas on the lawn and I'd like to overseed also.

My question I guess is on timing. When would you recommend I start the seeding, and then pre-emergent. Don't want to wait too long on putting down the pre-emergent, but want to give the need seed enough time to grow... but also not sure if it's too early to seed.

Was planning on using a sun-shade mix seed that has perennial rye and some bluegrass... so germination should be on the quicker side.

Also have cinchbug issues that I have to treat for... not sure the best time to treat the lawn for that either. Google has a bunch of info but not necessarily NJ specific data.

Any recommendations on when to plug aerate my lawn? Early spring, late spring?

 

[RocktheRac]

Best time to aeratw I the fall. Still too early for preemergent crabgrass control.

 

[ScarletEd]

:)

https://njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/fs1237/

Ed, the link above is Rutgers Fact Sheer 1237 regarding Japanese stilt grass. Note that it mentions fenoxaprop as being for professional use only, however, it is now available for homeowner residential use and for use in controlling JSG. Please read the label of Acclaim Extra and follow it closely if you are going to apply it. The label is 12 pages for a reason and you need to be precise in application, measurement, sprayer calibration, etc. If you are not comfortable you might have a licensed professional (I am not) apply it. As per my earlier post, it should be used in a program that also uses a preemergence. The preemergence should be in the spring and provide coverage through June. As a post emergent herbicide, fenoxaprop needs to me used when the plant is actively growing as per label. Finally, JSG is often confused with Nimblewill and creeping bent grass, neither of which will be controlled by fenoxaprop. I encourage anyone who wants to use herbicides (particularly specialized ones you can't but at Home Depot) to access the label and read it carefully (Google online) before purchase and application. Note if your existing turf is tolerant of thespecificherbicide and determine if you have the equipment and experience base to apply it. It also isn't always easy to identify a weed, which can lead to the wrong treatment program. These herbicides can be great tools but require diligent adherence to the label and exacting processes. Good luck!

Thanks for all your help :)

 

[rcube1994]

Slightly OT but hopefully someone can help. I’d like to completely redo the landscaping in front of my house (Middletown). I don’t mind doing much of the work myself to keep the costs down but want help with design, picking plants, etc. Have no problem with hiring someone to do pavers or whatever else I can’t handle. Any local recommendations?

Are nurseries/landscapers that do this work typically looking to do the whole job or are they willing to do the design and provide estimates for the other things that are needed? Any idea of typical design costs?

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

I'll toss out my two cents on a couple of the topics above but if you've read through this thread you know there are different opinions on many of these topic. If you ask 3 people or turf programs a lawn question you'll likely get 4 (sic) different answers. By way of example, MSU suggestion preemergents go down when soil temps are 50-55' PSU says 55-58, some schools higher, some give a date. The point is it's really not an exact science. For what it's worth I put mine down yesterday (I have some blooms on my forsythia, crocuses are in bloom, other weeds emerging, and my soil is 52-54 degrees. I'll do another app 8-10 weeks out and another late summer for winter annuals. So cobra, in my opinion you can put it down now. Also, with the rain coming that's good timing since it should be watered in. Alternatively, you could choose to wait a couple weeks. Perennial rye will germinate in 5-10 days and Kentucky blue more like 15-30 days but that's not a big deal. If you want to spot seed avoid getting your PM on those spots (or you can use mesotrione on those spots with seed.) Late summer is the best time to seed, though.

jLariva, aeration is a topic that has caused many families to break up and nations to go to war. Some folks/schools are big believers in aeration to alleviate compact soil, others would not aerate believing it disturbs the soil's biology and brings up long dormant seeds leading to more weeds. There are liquid products to help compacted soil.

So in the end, it's only grass and none of this will kill you (unless of course you don't closely follow the label for some of these herbicides--just joking, sort of.)

 

[NickKnight 1]

When my wife tell me to:)

 

[ScarletEd]

Any recommendations on when to plug aerate my lawn? Early spring, late spring?

If you have an underground sprinkler system, make sure you mark the locations of the headers or they may get damaged by the aereation machine.

 

[ClassOf02]

Ok so the forsythia started blooming so I'm guessing it's time to start thinking about putting down crabgrass preventer. Is it better to mow the lawn once or twice first?

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Ok so the forsythia started blooming so I'm guessing it's time to start thinking about putting down crabgrass preventer. Is it better to mow the lawn once or twice first?

You can put it down. TIming isn't that precise and you generally have a few week window. Mowing doesn't have any relevance with this unless your grass were really high and had a lot of thatch that could impede the PM from getting to the soil.

 

[DJ Spanky]

So I'm still acting under the assumption that the ground is not warm enough yet to put down grass seed. And with the cold weather this weekend, I could end up holding off for another week.

 

[bac2therac]

your seed and straw is likely to blow away Saturday night and Sunday. I would hold off until next weekend...after Tuesdays cold shot and Wednesday frosty morning, we rebound to 50s and looks like old man winter is done for .

 

[Knight Shift]

Bumpity bump.
The area I dropped topsoil and seeded in the fall looks good, except it does have a lot of weeds and small purple flowers. It was kind of difficult to get out and do the preemergent with work, vacation planning, snow,and threads of other natural disasters. Is it too late to drop 19-0-7 Dimension Crabgrass Preventer they sell at home depot?

 

[RocktheRac]

Bumpity bump.
The area I dropped topsoil and seeded in the fall looks good, except it does have a lot of weeds and small purple flowers. It was kind of difficult to get out and do the preemergent with work, vacation planning, snow,and threads of other natural disasters. Is it too late to drop 19-0-7 Dimension Crabgrass Preventer they sell at home depot?

No. Proceed as I am wrapping up my pre emergent.

Best time to core aerate is the fall.You can also do it in the spring if need be. make sure the soil is somewhat moist. The spikes will not go into the soil if it is like concrete.

 

[S_Janowski]

To piggy back off this...does anyone have a problem with thistle? And if so, what measures have you taken to try and eliminate it, as hard as it may be from what I'm reading. Were you successful?

 

[Knight Shift]

No. Proceed as I am wrapping up my pre emergent.

Best time to core aerate is the fall.You can also do it in the spring if need be. make sure the soil is somewhat moist. The spikes will not go into the soil if it is like concrete.

I put mine down on April 4, and it has rained some. How long for the pre-emergent to kick in? Because the weeds are still growing, well, like weeds. Should I go out there and start hitting the weeds with spray or give the pre-emergent time?

 

[ruready4somefootball]

I don't treat my backyard with any chemicals because of my dog. She loves to be in the back, always lying on her back and rubbing her nose in the grass. She would stay out there for hours if I didn't bring her in. I have always felt the high rate of of cancers has something to do with all the chemicals we treat our lawns with.

 

[DJ Spanky]

So I laid down grass seed this past weekend and am watering it regularly. We'll see how it does in the next few weeks.