7 big ten games …7 double digit first half deficits ….ain’t going anywhere until that’s fixed

[Scarlet Shack]

Ok …Indiana was only a 7 point deficit . Other 6 we fell behind 12 or more

Came back and won two
Almost stole Ohio state

Can’t keep falling behind …it’s that simple.

Figure out the first half Steve ….quickly …..otherwise we will be playing on Wednesday in the big ten tourney ….

 

[RUBlackout]

Ok …Indiana was only a 7 point deficit . Other 6 we fell behind 12 or more

Came back and won two
Almost stole Ohio state

Can’t keep falling behind …it’s that simple.

Figure out the first half Steve ….quickly …..otherwise we will be playing on Wednesday in the big ten tourney ….

bad coaching with subs...simple as that

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

bad coaching with subs...simple as that

No. I never saw any sandwiches.

 

[bac2therac]

its the talent

this isnt fixable

its just what we are at this point

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

Ok …Indiana was only a 7 point deficit . Other 6 we fell behind 12 or more

Came back and won two
Almost stole Ohio state

Can’t keep falling behind …it’s that simple.

Figure out the first half Steve ….quickly …..otherwise we will be playing on Wednesday in the big ten tourney ….

We will be 2-6 after next weekend, with only 1 real quality win against SHU. I think it's safe to say we finish last or 2nd to last.

 

[RUJMM78]

Ok …Indiana was only a 7 point deficit . Other 6 we fell behind 12 or more

Came back and won two
Almost stole Ohio state

Can’t keep falling behind …it’s that simple.

Figure out the first half Steve ….quickly …..otherwise we will be playing on Wednesday in the big ten tourney ….

A roster full of complementary type players results in scoring droughts .To their credit Rutgers has some scoring spurts but they can't maintain that consistency for extended minutes.The other issue is that Rutgers is a woeful team on the road which makes it even harder to catch up .

 

[Scarlet Shack]

its the talent

this isnt fixable

its just what we are at this point

A roster full of complementary type players results in scoring droughts .To their credit Rutgers has some scoring spurts but they can't maintain that consistency for extended minutes.The other issue is that Rutgers is a woeful team on the road which makes it even harder to catch up .

Respectfully …until this year l, we won 4 big ten road games each of the last three years …so that’s a this year issue.

I’m aware of the roster issues …(more on that later this week) …but the bad starts is a fixable issue….need to change it up , change player rotation , shorten bench ,

 

[bac2therac]

We will be 2-6 after next weekend, with only 1 real quality win against SHU. I think it's safe to say we finish last or 2nd to last.

Nebraska is a quality win

 

[bac2therac]

Respectfully …until this year l, we won 4 big ten road games each of the last three years …so that’s a this year issue.

I’m aware of the roster issues …(more on that later this week) …but the bad starts is a fixable issue….need to change it up , change player rotation , shorten bench ,

our starters would not start on almost all teams except for Cliff/Mag...that isnt changing. Hyatt is a 7th man for most teams. All those other players are deep bench players. J Mike should start IMO and i dont know why one or two games from Derek or Austin somehow pushed him down the rotation

 

[Bayonnebomber79]

bad coaching with subs...simple as that

it’s Jersey mikes, a sub above!

 

[goru7]

our starters would not start on almost all teams except for Cliff/Mag...that isnt changing. Hyatt is a 7th man for most teams. All those other players are deep bench players. J Mike should start IMO and i dont know why one or two games from Derek or Austin somehow pushed him down the rotation

Because you cannot allow bully ball. Austin stops the bully ball something the other 3 guards cannot do. Austin can also drive to the hoop something our our guards cannot do. Derek running the team against Nebraska and the shot show he showed today we have to live with. Noah or JMike do not give you enough , setting up team , defensively or shot making to make a difference. Yes, ride one if they give you a spark like Noah today. But any game Derek , Mag or Austin give to next to nothing is hard to win.

 

[Scangg]

our starters would not start on almost all teams except for Cliff/Mag...that isnt changing. Hyatt is a 7th man for most teams. All those other players are deep bench players. J Mike should start IMO and i dont know why one or two games from Derek or Austin somehow pushed him down the rotation

It's this simple. Cliff and Mag are B1G level starters. The rest are varying levels of bench players

Noah was not the B1G starting PG we needed

Simpson has not made the year 2 jump in efficiency required

Gavin was not the instant double digit scorer 3 point sniper we needed

 

[Scangg]

One thing to point out is we haven't played any of the other B1G bottom dwellers yet

PSU Michigan Minnesota Maryland

There are wins out there, especially if J Will is back and the real deal

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

its the talent

this isnt fixable

its just what we are at this point

Stage 4…..i told Shack we are going to lose by 25, give up hope, beat Purdue and get sucked back in.

Pike is doing his best. Maybe a few mistakes, but what else can he do at this point.

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

One thing to point out is we haven't played any of the other B1G bottom dwellers yet

PSU Michigan Minnesota Maryland

There are wins out there, especially if J Will is back and the real deal

Garbage wins won't turn season around at this point. Play Griffiths.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

It's this simple. Cliff and Mag are B1G level starters. The rest are varying levels of bench players

Noah was not the B1G starting PG we needed

Simpson has not made the year 2 jump in efficiency required

Gavin was not the instant double digit scorer 3 point sniper we needed

Pike is now what, 0 fer 8 years of finding a point guard. Hard to do especially since he was a D1 guard. Can't find a point guard. Can't develop big men. Just not seeing it as to getting to the next level.

 

[bac2therac]

One thing to point out is we haven't played any of the other B1G bottom dwellers yet

PSU Michigan Minnesota Maryland

There are wins out there, especially if J Will is back and the real deal

J will is back...when did J will ever do anything..sorry I am just not buying the idea that a player who was okay but not great at Temple and has not played for over a year is going to push the needle...I will reserve any judgment that he can until he actually plays a minute

 

[bac2therac]

Stage 4…..i told Shack we are going to lose by 25, give up hope, beat Purdue and get sucked back in.

Pike is doing his best. Maybe a few mistakes, but what else can he do at this point.

i dont know why i saw ncaa talk after the nebby win..which was barely a win mind you. A great win to get but reality was so against ncaa yet here we had people talking about splitting Ill/Pur...its over folks, accept it, when you do its easier to explain what is going on.

it is just not fixable for this year.

 

[Scangg]

J will is back...when did J will ever do anything..sorry I am just not buying the idea that a player who was okay but not great at Temple and has not played for over a year is going to push the needle...I will reserve any judgment that he can until he actually plays a minute

If J Will is mediocre its an upgrade

You don't have to think J Will is going to be amazing for him to be an upgrade. The guard play has been horrendous. The bar for him to be better is laying on the ground. He could crawl over it

 

[RUskoolie]

OP still in the denial stage I see.

We are playing the first day of the BTT. Book it. Expect each game to lose by 20 and you'll be surprised when we win but most of our losses have been 20 pointers for a reason.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Anything but denial …I know we don’t have a ncaa roster

Also know we are capable of making a higher percentage of the better looks we are getting than we are currently hitting

It’s not making us dance this year …but we can certainly compete with the middle third and bottom third of this league (see seton hall, Indiana and Nebraska ) ….

16-15 is the goal …and I give it a 40/60 chance right now .

 

[BigEastPhil]

I accepted after the Stonehill game that this team is mediocre / cannot score and it’s going to an overall .500 season if we re lucky.

I was actually “ there “ after the losses against Wake and Miss State but held out hope that Pike and staff could make adjustments to upgrade the game plans.

Sure there will be games that get the masses excited - a la Nebraska - but it’s fools gold.

There are too many warts on this team.

 

[biazza38]

What’s the deal with our strength and conditioning? We looked like an bottom of the pack AAC team against Illinois
This is really sad

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Does anyone not remember 2018-19 when we had 1 returning guard starter for 1 yr in Geo Baker with Tez, Caleb, RHJ and Kiss in their first year playing? 7-3 non conference, 8-3 23-24, struggle vs Columbia end of December, struggle vs Stonehill end of December.
Start B1G 1-6 18-19, start B1G 2-5 23-24

2018-19
@ MSU 67-78 FG 24-65 36.9%, 3pt 8-26 39.8%
Vs Wisc 64-69 FG 27-58 46.6%, 3pt 5-16 31.3%
Vs MD 63-77 FG 23-62 37.1% 3pt 6-21 28.6%
Vs OSU 64-61 FG 22-53 41.5% 3pt 5-16 31.3%
@ Minn 70-88 FG 25-56 44.6% 3pt 4-18 22.2%
Vs PUR 54-89 FG 18-48 37.5% 3pt 7-20 35.0%
Vs NW 57-65 FG 19-49 38.8% 3pt 4-17 23.5%
Total(7gm, 1-6) FG 158-391 40.4% 3pt 39-134 29.1%,

Next12, 6-6(W3, L3, W, 2L, 2W)
FG 25.8-59.2 43.6%, 3pt 6.0-17.1 35.1%
Before This arrested lost last 3(14-17)

2023-24
Vs ILL 58-76 FG 20-60 33.3% 3pt 6-13 46.2%
@ OSU 72-76 FG 27-67 40.3%, 3pt 6-24 25.0%
@ Iowa 77-86 FG 28-71 39.4%, 3pt 6-19 31.6%
Vs IND 65-57 FG 21-65 32.3%, 3pt 5-22 22.7%
@ MSU 53-72 FG 20-54 37.0%, 3pt 7-18 38.9%
Vs NEB 87-82 FG 30-78 38.5% 3pt 11-29 37.9%
@ ILL 86-63 FG 26-69 37.7% 3pt 3-14 21.4%
Total(7gm, 2-5) FG 172-464 37.5% 3pt 44-139 31.7%

Next 14???
We have vs PSU 9-10(0-4 road, 0-8 R/N), 2 vs Mich(7-11), 2 vs MD, Vs Ohio St(0-3 road), @ Minn(11-2, losses Missouri, Iowa), vs NW(2-3 road, Q4 road win @ DePaul, @ PSU), @ NEB, 2 vs PUR and 2 vs Wisc. 7 home, 6 road. Best case, go 5-2 home and still see potential of 2, maybe 3 road wins. If we can get enough parts on the same page soon.

 

[RU MAN]

Ok …Indiana was only a 7 point deficit . Other 6 we fell behind 12 or more

Came back and won two
Almost stole Ohio state

Can’t keep falling behind …it’s that simple.

Figure out the first half Steve ….quickly …..otherwise we will be playing on Wednesday in the big ten tourney ….

Not only what you stated, Shack, but how about this: Pike is all about tenacious defense. So without discussing our disgusting offense, is it too much to ask to teach the kids how to block out on defense? My god, how many second-chance points did Illinois have because we didn't block out?

 

[willisneverrana43]

its the talent

this isnt fixable

its just what we are at this point

Bingo. The lengths to which this board will go to ignore that the over-riding problem, by far, is the significant talent deficiency . . . . And so we muse into existence arguments to make the problem seem fixable by [insert random coaching fix]. That way, we don’t have to accept that the team just isn’t good.

But look at the roster. There’s your answer. It’s the talent, not some sort of first-half flu. The team is worse than 300th in the country in all the shooting stats—three-point, two point, free throws. It’s an offensive mess. The team is stocked with mid major players who can’t shoot from far away, close-up, mid-range, or the line. And there are other things that they’re not good at. To steal a phrase, it’s the talent stupid.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I see the same stuff that isn't documented by reality... Cliff and Mag are the only B1G players?? LMAO

I think I watched the same games we all do and Mag is a very good defensive player.....he needs to be able to be a player you can throw the ball to on the wing OR in the post and get a basket or a shot attempt from 3. He's not there yet, so while we appear to want to make players better than reality, we can slow down a bit.

On the other hand, fans (who are in this thread) continue to ignore improving players or players who no longer fit their narrative. As much as it kills them to say it, Hyatt is clearly RUs most consistent shooters in this season.

One player scored 12 yesterday and another one scored 2.....only on a RU fan board would some fans call a teams leading scorer and solid 3 point shooter a 7th man.

When you play better teams and need a basket, that actually means something when teams scout RU..... no opponent starts by saying "we have to stop Mag from getting touches in the paint and from 3".

The least fans could do is be realistic about what they watch. I get it, some fans aren't really interested in revamping a roster on the fly to improve things beyond this year.....and Illinois and Purdue twice, with Ohio State and Michigan State on the road, skews the view a bit.

How do you stop falling behind in the 1st 8 minutes of a game?? How about throwing the ball to Mag and asking him to go get a bucket against Terrance Shannon or letting him post up against Malik Hall of MSU or later this year vs Wahl of Wisconsin twice or Michigan's front line twice, or Julian Reese at Maryland.

Since Cliff is now playing at his normal level and Hyatt is pretty much going to give you 11 to 14 points, we actually need the other "B1G", player to step forward and play and score, defend and rebound to the levels that fans have announced or expected.

Do I actually think that's reality....?? No and I have no actual expectations that is the case, so the fact is there are no threads killing Mag.....because we all see the same things and no one watching RU on a consistent basis, expects that.

To be an all B1G player as bac and others keep parroting, there should be as many threads on Mag with 2 points as there were when Cliff doesn't play well. Wonder why that is?? We can't look at things solely on defense and a couple of rebounds......this isn't the A-10 or Ivy League.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I cant believe someone can objectively look at this offensive mess and not conclude the primary reason is our guard play.

 

[RUJMM78]

Anything but denial …I know we don’t have a ncaa roster

Also know we are capable of making a higher percentage of the better looks we are getting than we are currently hitting

It’s not making us dance this year …but we can certainly compete with the middle third and bottom third of this league (see seton hall, Indiana and Nebraska ) ….

16-15 is the goal …and I give it a 40/60 chance right now .

I like your prediction and how difficult it will be for a winning season.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I cant believe someone can objectively look at this offensive mess and not conclude the primary reason is our guard play.

I can and there's a reason why I looked at it that way last year and can clearly see that's why it was changed for this year and beyond.

I see the same things you do but I am not a prisoner of the moment or bargaining on a 1 year to 1 year basis.... I have a longer term view about what this year does or doesn't do for beyond this year.

Anyone who understands CBB, has to factor in recruiting and the next year or two, into any decisions that are made. I am under no obligation to treat 2023-24 and ignore 2024-25 and beyond. We have 2 guards who are expected to play significant minutes in 2024-25, who haven't played or may not play much in Jeremiah Williams and Dylan Harper.

I again will ask fans one question.....if you have NO guards on the roster with any game experience or time spent at RU next year, with FIVE freshman incoming, does that seem like a safe decision to make?? I certainly don't.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think a big mistake fans make is to think players get better just by playing in games. The solution for Simpson and Gavin isnt they will get better by playing B1G games.

It is SO much more than that.

If there were equations about getting better obviously everyones would be a bit different. Practice and offseason work is where almost all of the improvements are going to come from.

Is Derek being a shoot first PG going to really help him next year. Do we want Derek putting the blinders on going to the basket with Ace on the court? Do we want Derek taking pull up 15 footers that he is making 35% of the time with Dylan on the floor?

I have a tough time seeing how Derek and Gavin on the floor in January and February really helps all that much for next year.

Perhaps if Gavin finishes the season on a good note that can carry forward to next year. The simple reality is it doesnt matter what he does on thr offensive end, if he doesnt affect change on the defensive end his csreer at Rutgers never takes off.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

As far as going in to 2024/25 with no guards if we shut the ones we have out…….you are painting the case why I think next year has the potential to be a big disaster.

 

[kcg88]

523 players meet the following criteria:

High-major player
Played 40% or more of their team's minutes
15% or higher usage rate

Here's where our guards rank in effective FG%:

Simpson 519/523
Davis 517/523
Fernandes 506/523

If it were up to me I wouldn't bring either Simpson or Davis back. If I were forced to choose one, I'd choose Simpson. But then if you factor in the Ace relationship...

Pikiell is going to have to have a difficult conversation with somebody or else next year is going to be a major disappointment.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

523 players meet the following criteria:

High-major player
Played 40% or more of their team's minutes
15% or higher usage rate

Here's where our guards rank in effective FG%:

Simpson 520/524
Davis 518/524
Fernandes 507/524

If it were up to me I wouldn't bring either Simpson or Davis back. If I were forced to choose one, I'd choose Simpson. But then if you factor in the Ace relationship...

Pikiell is going to have to have a difficult conversation with somebody or else next year is going to be a major disappointment.

Sheridan is lurking

 

[kcg88]

Sheridan is lurking

Hahaha what a dumb thing to mess up. I blame Torvik for still listing them as "1, 2, 3..." even when you sort the list from bottom to top.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I agree with your analysis, but not necessarily the 2nd part....i think it comes down to the role available, who fits it best and who accepts that role. I also think, don't know, one of them is a better fit with teammates

 

[kcg88]

I agree with your analysis, but not necessarily the 2nd part....i think it comes down to the role available, who fits it best and who accepts that role. I also think, don't know, one of them is a better fit with teammates

It hinges on what kind of player Dylan Harper is. If he's a head-down scorer then we want someone who can also get to the rim on their own and shooting is less important. If he's a true combo guard and is willing to pass and involve others, then we'd want someone who can catch and shoot, or dribble around a closeout and shoot, or make the second pass to a shooter (Ace or Gavin, perhaps).

The idealized version of Davis is the "get to the rim" guy who would compliment the head-down scorer version of Harper. The idealized version of Simpson is the one we'd want to play with a combo-guard version of Harper. The problem is both Davis and Simpson are a long, long away from being the idealized versions of themselves.

If you watch Kentucky at all this year you'll see that John Calipari understands this. Antonio Reeves is a head-down scorer (and at 6-6 195 has nearly equal measurables to Harper)... so Kentucky starts him with DJ Wagner, who has the juice to get to the rim himself. It's definitely "my turn, your turn" basketball but when the players are talented it can work. Then they bring Rob Dillingham (a better and more willing passer) and Reed Sheppard (a knockdown shooter but not a threat to drive) off the bench together. Having Sheppard on the floor with Wagner and Reeves would be a bit of a waste because he wouldn't get the touches.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

....which is why I'd think Simpson needs to reinvent himself as a guy who wants to get in to the paint with the intent to pass. Also time to ditch the midrange jumper with the shot clock above 5 seconds.

 

[kcg88]

....which is why I'd think Simpson needs to reinvent himself as a guy who wants to get in to the paint with the intent to pass. Also time to ditch the midrange jumper with the shot clock above 5 seconds.

That stuff is hardwired at this point imo

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

That stuff is hardwired at this point imo

this is almost certainly true unfortunately