Don't look RU fans ...The "RU doesn’t run offense claim is DEBUNKED .....

[NewJerseyHawk]

Breaking news.....a myth is being debunked with actual evidence that doesn't support the fans who think "RU doesn't run an offense etc..."....In order to make such a wild claim, shouldn't there actually be evidence supporting that item??

Here are the actual facts....there have been 5 known or relevant RU players in recent years who hit the portal.....and in almost all of them, the players produced at the same level OR their efficiency or production went DOWN after leaving RU. I won't bore you with the stats, the 5 players are

Myles Johnson
Montez Mathis
Jacob Young
Paul Mulcahy
Eugene Omoyuri

The argument that Eugene somehow learned offense at Oregon after a full redshirt season, while learning how to actually play basketball without doible dribbling as a freshmen, is pretty funny. So take Eugene out and all 5 players saw most of their efficiency or numbers decrease after leaving RU....that doesn't support the "RU doesn't run an offense, if others are doing it elsewhere, why aren't those players and their numbers increasing......HMMMM

Let's take a more recent comparison, since others claim that UConn "adjusted their offense.....they did not.....they adjusted and shed poor guards who were 4* kids and weren't efficient like Rashool Diggins (Umass) and Corey Floyd Jr (Providence)....which brings me to the horrible part of Cam Spencer....don't look, you may be shocked

Spencer stats for the most part are identical to last year, which collpases any argument about coaching, offense or anything, because Spencer numbers should be WAY better at UCONN, right?? WRONG.....

He averaged 10 shot attempts per game last year at RU....same 10 shot attempts per game at UConn this year

From 3.. .Spencer shot 43.4 at RU....he shooting 44.0 at UConn...

PPG 14.4 at UConn.....13.2 at RU...

Same minutes per game....31.5 RU, 32.7 UConn...

89.4 FT at RU, 91.5 at UConn with the same number of attempts per game (not a lot)

4.5 RPG at UCONN, 3.8 at RU

3.6 AST at UCONN to 3.1 at RU

Once I factor in that UConn is the overwhelming favorite and Spencer has the best roster kr supporting cast, does that support the argument on "Pike doesn't run good offense"??

I'll wait to see where the drastic difference in production is, to support that argument. The fact is, it is NOT a lack of coaching, it is talent on the floor.

If fans want to bang poor recruiting, go for it.....but if a 4th and 5th year senior season for Cam Spencer is essentially the same, the argument is essentially useless.

 

[superfan01]

Breaking news.....a myth is being debunked with actual evidence that doesn't support the fans who think "RU doesn't run an offense etc..."....In order to make such a wild claim, shouldn't there actually be evidence supporting that item??

Here are the actual facts....there have been 5 known or relevant RU players in recent years who hit the portal.....and in almost all of them, the players produced at the same level OR their efficiency or production went DOWN after leaving RU. I won't bore you with the stats, the 5 players are

Myles Johnson
Montez Mathis
Jacob Young
Paul Mulcahy
Eugene Omoyuri

The argument that Eugene somehow learned offense at Oregon after a full redshirt season, while learning how to actually play basketball without doible dribbling as a freshmen, is pretty funny. So take Eugene out and all 5 players saw most of their efficiency or numbers decrease after leaving RU....that doesn't support the "RU doesn't run an offense, if others are doing it elsewhere, why aren't those players and their numbers increasing......HMMMM

Let's take a more recent comparison, since others claim that UConn "adjusted their offense.....they did not.....they adjusted and shed poor guards who were 4* kids and weren't efficient like Rashool Diggins (Umass) and Corey Floyd Jr (Providence)....which brings me to the horrible part of Cam Spencer....don't look, you may be shocked

Spencer stats for the most part are identical to last year, which collpases any argument about coaching, offense or anything, because Spencer numbers should be WAY better at UCONN, right?? WRONG.....

He averaged 10 shot attempts per game last year at RU....same 10 shot attempts per game at UConn this year

From 3.. .Spencer shot 43.4 at RU....he shooting 44.0 at UConn...

PPG 14.4 at UConn.....13.2 at RU...

Same minutes per game....31.5 RU, 32.7 UConn...

89.4 FT at RU, 91.5 at UConn with the same number of attempts per game (not a lot)

4.5 RPG at UCONN, 3.8 at RU

3.6 AST at UCONN to 3.1 at RU

Once I factor in that UConn is the overwhelming favorite and Spencer has the best roster kr supporting cast, does that support the argument on "Pike doesn't run good offense"??

I'll wait to see where the drastic difference in production is, to support that argument. The fact is, it is NOT a lack of coaching, it is talent on the floor.

If fans want to bang poor recruiting, go for it.....but if a 4th and 5th year senior season for Cam Spencer is essentially the same, the argument is essentially useless.

Hawk - When do you admit you whiffed on Cam and the roster depth this past season?

 

[bigbirdRU]

KENPOM OFFENSE

Princeton 28
Rutgers 299

 

[Degaz-RU]

I hate to break it to you, Hawk, but NONE of what you say here proves or even hints that Rutgers runs an offense.

The fact that other players’ production went down or was stagnant at other schools doesn’t prove anything about the offense Rutgers runs or doesn’t run.

Citing to Cam Spencer’s statistics at both schools? Just about every category went UP at UConn, so not sure how that makes your point at all.

If what you’re saying is that “it’s not the offense we run, but the fact that the PLAYERS are not good on offense,” that would be a more reasonable position to take. But it STILL wouldn’t prove that we actually run an offense. If the players are bad on offense, their numbers would be cruddy regardless of whether we run an offense or not.

I’m just not sure what point you’re trying to make by showing players’ statistics after they leave Rutgers. Not sure how that’s relevant to whether or not we “run an offense.”

 

[Degaz-RU]

By the way, I’m not one of the guys that beats the “Rutgers doesn’t run an offense” drum.

If you watch the NCAA Tournament, MOST of the teams run the same sets we run — high ball screens, pick and roll, dribble penetration, iso ball, and the occasional down screen. It’s just that the tournament teams have better offensive players who can shoot from the outside and have the touch to convert shots in the paint and at the rim.

There are only a few teams that run highly complex offensive sets.

 

[RUMorrisTech]

I hate to break it to you, Hawk, but NONE of what you say here proves or even hints that Rutgers runs an offense.

The fact that other players’ production went down or was stagnant at other schools doesn’t prove anything about the offense Rutgers runs or doesn’t run.

Citing to Cam Spencer’s statistics at both schools? Just about every category went UP at UConn, so not sure how that makes your point at all.

If what you’re saying is that “it’s not the offense we run, but the fact that the PLAYERS are not good on offense,” that would be a more reasonable position to take. But it STILL wouldn’t prove that we actually run an offense. If the players are bad on offense, their numbers would be cruddy regardless of whether we run an offense or not.

I’m just not sure what point you’re trying to make by showing players’ statistics after they leave Rutgers. Not sure how that’s relevant to whether or not we “run an offense.”

I don't have a position either way. Is this true? I'd think better scheme = more open looks = higher fg %, all else being equal.

 

[seansherm]

Breaking news.....a myth is being debunked with actual evidence that doesn't support the fans who think "RU doesn't run an offense etc..."....In order to make such a wild claim, shouldn't there actually be evidence supporting that item??

Here are the actual facts....there have been 5 known or relevant RU players in recent years who hit the portal.....and in almost all of them, the players produced at the same level OR their efficiency or production went DOWN after leaving RU. I won't bore you with the stats, the 5 players are

Myles Johnson
Montez Mathis
Jacob Young
Paul Mulcahy
Eugene Omoyuri

The argument that Eugene somehow learned offense at Oregon after a full redshirt season, while learning how to actually play basketball without doible dribbling as a freshmen, is pretty funny. So take Eugene out and all 5 players saw most of their efficiency or numbers decrease after leaving RU....that doesn't support the "RU doesn't run an offense, if others are doing it elsewhere, why aren't those players and their numbers increasing......HMMMM

Let's take a more recent comparison, since others claim that UConn "adjusted their offense.....they did not.....they adjusted and shed poor guards who were 4* kids and weren't efficient like Rashool Diggins (Umass) and Corey Floyd Jr (Providence)....which brings me to the horrible part of Cam Spencer....don't look, you may be shocked

Spencer stats for the most part are identical to last year, which collpases any argument about coaching, offense or anything, because Spencer numbers should be WAY better at UCONN, right?? WRONG.....

He averaged 10 shot attempts per game last year at RU....same 10 shot attempts per game at UConn this year

From 3.. .Spencer shot 43.4 at RU....he shooting 44.0 at UConn...

PPG 14.4 at UConn.....13.2 at RU...

Same minutes per game....31.5 RU, 32.7 UConn...

89.4 FT at RU, 91.5 at UConn with the same number of attempts per game (not a lot)

4.5 RPG at UCONN, 3.8 at RU

3.6 AST at UCONN to 3.1 at RU

Once I factor in that UConn is the overwhelming favorite and Spencer has the best roster kr supporting cast, does that support the argument on "Pike doesn't run good offense"??

I'll wait to see where the drastic difference in production is, to support that argument. The fact is, it is NOT a lack of coaching, it is talent on the floor.

If fans want to bang poor recruiting, go for it.....but if a 4th and 5th year senior season for Cam Spencer is essentially the same, the argument is essentially useless.

I happen to agree with you that RU runs an offense and it's talent, but I'm not sure any of it is debunked by this post. A good player is a good player, they get theirs. Many of these guys saw their #'s go down because they went to teams with more talent.

Eugene's offensive numbers at Oregon were far above anything he put up at RU, a TS% at least 5% higher than anything he'd done and his Efg% was like 10% higher. He doubled his 3PA rate and shot it much better.

Montez TS% and Efg% were both a decent amount higher at St. Johns than they were at RU

Young's career year was his final year at RU, no doubt

Mulcahy and Johnson weren't guys that shoot, they were both more facilitators.

Most of the above is probably more a result of maturity than anything else.

 

[S_Janowski]

Anyone know how to post the GIF of Dale Doback from Step Brothers?

That’s essentially how I feel after reading any of Hawk’s long winded posts (if I even read them).

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

KENPOM OFFENSE

Princeton 28
Rutgers 299

Why are we referring to Princeton, when Princeton doesn't play a B1G caliber schedule?? Are you saying Princeton would be 28 nationally playing in the B1G and RU would be 299 in the Ivy??

 

[Jerseylegends]

To the people that say "Rutgers doesn't run an offense" do you think the coaches just send the guys out there and tell them to play? Or do you not like the stuff Rutgers runs? Like, is it really that you guys think they just go out there like a group of guys at LA fitness?

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Anyone know how to post the GIF of Dale Doback from Step Brothers?

That’s essentially how I feel after reading any of Hawk’s long winded posts (if I even read them).

If you can't debate the facts (because I actually post the information supporting it) that's your only response?? Mic drop...

My 2nd DEBUNKING is the following.

All 5 of the departing starters at RU were all underclassmen or less experienced in their careers at RU......SO....that means the player production with experience in the equation should have improved their productivity, because they had considerable playing time.

It is rare to see someone with more experience, go down in productivity as they advance in their careers.

The coaching of offense is a TALENT, skill and inability to make incomplete players into all B1G caliber offensive players. This notion that Pike can take Jalen Miller, Derek Simpson and JMike Davis (last 3 PGs or CGs) and turn them into 12 to 14PPG players, is the issue.

 

[S_Janowski]

If you can't debate the facts (because I actually post the information supporting it) that's your only response?? Mic drop...

My 2nd DEBUNKING is the following.

All 5 of the departing starters at RU were all underclassmen or less experienced in their careers at RU......SO....that means the player production with experience in the equation should have improved their productivity, because they had considerable playing time.

It is rare to see someone with more experience, go down in productivity as they advance in their careers.

The coaching of offense is a TALENT, skill and inability to make incomplete players into all B1G caliber offensive players. This notion that Pike can take Jalen Miller, Derek Simpson and JMike Davis (last 3 PGs or CGs) and turn them into 12 to 14PPG players, is the issue.

I actually think we do run an offense (albeit sometimes not a great one).

I just don’t think anything you posted debunks anything.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

To the people that say "Rutgers doesn't run an offense" do you think the coaches just send the guys out there and tell them to play? Or do you not like the stuff Rutgers runs? Like, is it really that you guys think they just go out there like a group of guys at LA fitness?

There is a talent disparity that the coaches need to correct.

Keep in mind, JWill played 2 years at Temple and he had a year off from injury and in his smaller sample size, looks like a different caliber player at RU......doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve his perimeter shooting or 3 PT shooting, but he is far more productive than I think most fans realize (until they saw the games and difference when he played vs not having him).

Do you disagree on the drastic differences in UConn Spencer stats vs RU Spencer stats?? Was the LA Fitness offense run last year when Spencer was here?? If so, then why aren't there big differences in production??

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I actually think we do run an offense (albeit sometimes not a great one).

I just don’t think anything you posted debunks anything.

I gave you 5 to 6 players at RU and their productivity declined in almost all the cases elsewhere...is that a coincidence or does it shatter your thought process??

If the offense was so poorly coached, then all 5 players, should see their productivity and efficiency increase.....that didn't happen.

 

[Eagleton96]

Breaking news.....a myth is being debunked with actual evidence that doesn't support the fans who think "RU doesn't run an offense etc..."....In order to make such a wild claim, shouldn't there actually be evidence supporting that item??

Here are the actual facts....there have been 5 known or relevant RU players in recent years who hit the portal.....and in almost all of them, the players produced at the same level OR their efficiency or production went DOWN after leaving RU. I won't bore you with the stats, the 5 players are

Myles Johnson
Montez Mathis
Jacob Young
Paul Mulcahy
Eugene Omoyuri

The argument that Eugene somehow learned offense at Oregon after a full redshirt season, while learning how to actually play basketball without doible dribbling as a freshmen, is pretty funny. So take Eugene out and all 5 players saw most of their efficiency or numbers decrease after leaving RU....that doesn't support the "RU doesn't run an offense, if others are doing it elsewhere, why aren't those players and their numbers increasing......HMMMM

Let's take a more recent comparison, since others claim that UConn "adjusted their offense.....they did not.....they adjusted and shed poor guards who were 4* kids and weren't efficient like Rashool Diggins (Umass) and Corey Floyd Jr (Providence)....which brings me to the horrible part of Cam Spencer....don't look, you may be shocked

Spencer stats for the most part are identical to last year, which collpases any argument about coaching, offense or anything, because Spencer numbers should be WAY better at UCONN, right?? WRONG.....

He averaged 10 shot attempts per game last year at RU....same 10 shot attempts per game at UConn this year

From 3.. .Spencer shot 43.4 at RU....he shooting 44.0 at UConn...

PPG 14.4 at UConn.....13.2 at RU...

Same minutes per game....31.5 RU, 32.7 UConn...

89.4 FT at RU, 91.5 at UConn with the same number of attempts per game (not a lot)

4.5 RPG at UCONN, 3.8 at RU

3.6 AST at UCONN to 3.1 at RU

Once I factor in that UConn is the overwhelming favorite and Spencer has the best roster kr supporting cast, does that support the argument on "Pike doesn't run good offense"??

I'll wait to see where the drastic difference in production is, to support that argument. The fact is, it is NOT a lack of coaching, it is talent on the floor.

If fans want to bang poor recruiting, go for it.....but if a 4th and 5th year senior season for Cam Spencer is essentially the same, the argument is essentially useless.

Brian Fonseca had a big rant about this on the NJ.com podcast with Politi. He was mocking the people saying the offensive scheme was to blame and not the players. Literally mocking.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I happen to agree with you that RU runs an offense and it's talent, but I'm not sure any of it is debunked by this post. A good player is a good player, they get theirs. Many of these guys saw their #'s go down because they went to teams with more talent.

Eugene's offensive numbers at Oregon were far above anything he put up at RU, a TS% at least 5% higher than anything he'd done and his Efg% was like 10% higher. He doubled his 3PA rate and shot it much better.

Montez TS% and Efg% were both a decent amount higher at St. Johns than they were at RU

Young's career year was his final year at RU, no doubt

Mulcahy and Johnson weren't guys that shoot, they were both more facilitators.

Most of the above is probably more a result of maturity than anything else.

Mathis got into a run and gun system with Mike Anderson at St John's, nothing more than that.

Mulcahy fell off a cliff at Washington, in a faster paced offense and a likely weaker conference in the Pac 12.

At some point, if something isn't supported with something other than facts, why should it be claimed as a fact??

Myles Johnson ran into UCLAs system and Mick Cronin, who runs a much slower.and actually worse offense than Pike and RU.....but he went home for grad school and educational reasons, much more than coaching styles, so he might not be the best example, but he fits the profile of someone who "should" have played better in Year 4 of his career.

 

[socaldave]

By the way, I’m not one of the guys that beats the “Rutgers doesn’t run an offense” drum.

If you watch the NCAA Tournament, MOST of the teams run the same sets we run — high ball screens, pick and roll, dribble penetration, iso ball, and the occasional down screen. It’s just that the tournament teams have better offensive players who can shoot from the outside and have the touch to convert shots in the paint and at the rim.

There are only a few teams that run highly complex offensive sets.

Players also are in constant movement, make effort full crisp cuts, and look for the extra pass.

 

[richthedentist]

By the way, I’m not one of the guys that beats the “Rutgers doesn’t run an offense” drum.

If you watch the NCAA Tournament, MOST of the teams run the same sets we run — high ball screens, pick and roll, dribble penetration, iso ball, and the occasional down screen. It’s just that the tournament teams have better offensive players who can shoot from the outside and have the touch to convert shots in the paint and at the rim.

There are only a few teams that run highly complex offensive sets.

I agree we do/did get plenty of open looks during the season we just don’t have shooters
Could we run more sets to get people open sure but with Dylan and Ace next year and 2 good gets from the portal Pikiell could potentially look like an offensive genius lol

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I am mostly with NJH here....plus I sit directly across the bench and I see with my own eyes the amount of possessions that the staff actually calls plays from the bench.

I allocate somewhere between 90-99% our offensive failures on the players.

Obviously leaving open that maybe the staff can use the talent they have better AND my disbelief that Cliff doesn't have a better offensive toolbox (talking non shooting toolbox) 4 years in to his career here. How much of that is on him vs. coaching staff?

 

[bigbirdRU]

Why are we referring to Princeton, when Princeton doesn't play a B1G caliber schedule?? Are you saying Princeton would be 28 nationally playing in the B1G and RU would be 299 in the Ivy??

All we can do is compare the metrics. Princeton has a much more efficient offense with presumably much less talented players. Why would that be?

With average players maybe the offense would be ranked 100 this year, instead of 300. That still isn’t very good. Pikes offense topped out in the 70s. So the solution is to either recruit all NBA players like Kentucky, or run better schemes like Princeton, Purdue, etc.

 

[seansherm]

There is a talent disparity that the coaches need to correct.

Keep in mind, JWill played 2 years at Temple and he had a year off from injury and in his smaller sample size, looks like a different caliber player at RU......doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve his perimeter shooting or 3 PT shooting, but he is far more productive than I think most fans realize (until they saw the games and difference when he played vs not having him).

Do you disagree on the drastic differences in UConn Spencer stats vs RU Spencer stats?? Was the LA Fitness offense run last year when Spencer was here?? If so, then why aren't there big differences in production??

Disagree on JWill. His RU shooting numbers are almost the same exact as his career Temple numbers, he just shot more and passed less than he had at Temple. His turnover rate was down, but think these are all a result of us putting the ball in Derek's hand as much as JWill's when they were on the court together. I think he was less productive than most of this fan base is giving him credit for, want to see him with a shooter or two next to him.

 

[Jerseylegends]

There is a talent disparity that the coaches need to correct.

Keep in mind, JWill played 2 years at Temple and he had a year off from injury and in his smaller sample size, looks like a different caliber player at RU......doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve his perimeter shooting or 3 PT shooting, but he is far more productive than I think most fans realize (until they saw the games and difference when he played vs not having him).

Do you disagree on the drastic differences in UConn Spencer stats vs RU Spencer stats?? Was the LA Fitness offense run last year when Spencer was here?? If so, then why aren't there big differences in production??

No, I agree with you. No argument from me lol I was asking these guys what they mean by "Rutgers doesn't run an offense".

 

[seansherm]

Mathis got into a run and gun system with Mike Anderson at St John's, nothing more than that.

Mulcahy fell off a cliff at Washington, in a faster paced offense and a likely weaker conference in the Pac 12.

At some point, if something isn't supported with something other than facts, why should it be claimed as a fact??

Myles Johnson ran into UCLAs system and Mick Cronin, who runs a much slower.and actually worse offense than Pike and RU.....but he went home for grad school and educational reasons, much more than coaching styles, so he might not be the best example, but he fits the profile of someone who "should" have played better in Year 4 of his career.

I think Mulcahy and Myles went to offenses not built for their slow processing games, agree.

Despite that, Myles still shot a career best 63% at UCLA, he just shot less. His other #s were in line with his career, rebounding %, ect. He just got no usage on offense.

Mulcahy got worse as he got older. Don't know if that was injury related or what.

Mathis was more efficient at St. Johns, especially the last 1/2 year he played where he shot the 3 at 40%

 

[Jerseylegends]

All we can do is compare the metrics. Princeton has a much more efficient offense with presumably much less talented players. Why would that be?

With average players maybe the offense would be ranked 100 this year, instead of 300. That still isn’t very good. Pikes offense topped out in the 70s. So the solution is to either recruit all NBA players like Kentucky, or run better schemes like Princeton, Purdue, etc.

Lol Purdue.... Purdue has 7'5 offensively skilled center surrounded by shooters...be kind of hard to replicate that... Princeton had good players RU was playing with guys projected to be backups.... Rutgers does not have better players than Princeton..

 

[Jerseylegends]

I think Mulcahy and Myles went to offenses not built for their slow processing games, agree.

Despite that, Myles still shot a career best 63% at UCLA, he just shot less. His other #s were in line with his career, rebounding %, ect. He just got no usage on offense.

Mulcahy got worse as he got older. Don't know if that was injury related or what.

Mathis was more efficient at St. Johns, especially the last 1/2 year he played where he shot the 3 at 40%

So I'm asking...what does Rutgers run, if they run anything at all, that you don't like?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Good topic / post, Hawk. I’d probably modify the positioning slightly though as technically the direct arguments it debunks is the theory that a) RU’s offense holds back players’ offensive development and/or b) does not allow good offensive players to thrive.

By broadening the position to say this “proves” Pike runs offense, it weakens your argument a little bit (since the link isn’t quite as direct). It’d be almost impossible to dispute the latter based on your data which doesn’t even take into account any incremental progress on these kids’ ends from simply being a year older and having the benefit of another year of offseason training after departing RU.

 

[Jerseylegends]

I think Mulcahy and Myles went to offenses not built for their slow processing games, agree.

Despite that, Myles still shot a career best 63% at UCLA, he just shot less. His other #s were in line with his career, rebounding %, ect. He just got no usage on offense.

Mulcahy got worse as he got older. Don't know if that was injury related or what.

Mathis was more efficient at St. Johns, especially the last 1/2 year he played where he shot the 3 at 40%

My bad, I saw your other posts...yep, it's about talent...you can run one of those no dribble old school Princeton offenses to win a couple games with lesser players but if you want to be big time you need the talent that this team didn't have last year..

 

[FIJI'83]

How about running an offense that fits your talent? Because we have not until very recently recruited players who can create their own shot off the dribble or who have a shooter's touch, the offense we run is ineffective unlike similar offenses which are run by Tournament Teams. If you have players who can't effectively dribble drive and finish, can't finish transition opportunities or are inept at iso play, than it makes no sense making them do so. If you recruit such offensively challenged players you can't succeed by relying on defense alone which is what Pike has done. You need to run a motion offense or some derivative thereof to these type of players in a position to succeed. Having said all this, the obvious key to success is recruiting TALENTED players from both an offensive and defensive standpoint. Our freshman class coming in appears to be a very good start at achieving this goal. Now. let Pike finish with attaining complimentary proven talent rom the portal.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

The offense has been ugly
Nobody in their right mind would argue that

Some has to do w/the players
Other part is scheme, creativity, or lack thereof (sounds familiar to football)

We'll see a lot this year w/the talent coming in, and future years as well
But to suggest the offense hasn't been a problem is nuts

 

[NJDOVES]

Great debate going on here. I’d just like to mention that the offense is primarily run by Coach knight and the defense primarily run by Coach Pike.
Ultimately the responsibility lies with Coach Pike but I’m sure he agrees with most if not all of Coach Knight’s offenses.

 

[seansherm]

So I'm asking...what does Rutgers run, if they run anything at all, that you don't like?

I have no problem with the offense, other than can be a little ISO heavy when the pick and roll isn't there. The pick and roll this year wasn't strong because there were no shooters defenders had to stay on. To Hawk's point, it was more a talent issue, although I'd blame a little on roster building too.

 

[The RUT]

Players also are in constant movement, make effort full crisp cuts, and look for the extra pass.

Off ball movement.

We are the easiest team to guard in college basketball.

 

[RW90]

Players also are in constant movement, make effort full crisp cuts, and look for the extra pass.

This. I don't think its the sets as much as emphasis on the part of the coaching staff, and willingness on the part of players, to focus on ball rotation.

 

[RedTeam1994]

I happen to agree with you that RU runs an offense and it's talent, but I'm not sure any of it is debunked by this post. A good player is a good player, they get theirs. Many of these guys saw their #'s go down because they went to teams with more talent.

Eugene's offensive numbers at Oregon were far above anything he put up at RU, a TS% at least 5% higher than anything he'd done and his Efg% was like 10% higher. He doubled his 3PA rate and shot it much better.

Montez TS% and Efg% were both a decent amount higher at St. Johns than they were at RU

Young's career year was his final year at RU, no doubt

Mulcahy and Johnson weren't guys that shoot, they were both more facilitators.

Most of the above is probably more a result of maturity than anything else.

My thoughts exactly - I bolded your first sentence since it perfectly summarizes my reaction to the OP

I agree that the problem wasn’t really “lack of offense” but lack of offensive talent….but the OPs post did NOTHING to prove that.

 

[snowboarder]

Pikiell's teams over the last 5 years have never averaged 70pts a game.
Uconn has never averaged under 70 pts a game during that period and has averaged over 75 twice and over 80 once.
How do you argue with those facts?
That included a roster in 19-20 that had Yaboah, Young, Harper and Baker ( not to mention Peter Kiss)
BTW , in 75-76 Rutgers averaged 93pts a game

 

[bigbirdRU]

Lol Purdue.... Purdue has 7'5 offensively skilled center surrounded by shooters...be kind of hard to replicate that... Princeton had good players RU was playing with guys projected to be backups.... Rutgers does not have better players than Princeton..

Purdue has not had a top 25 recruiting class in many years. They are usually in the 30s and 40s. The are among the most efficient offenses in the county with mediocre recruiting, we should take notice.

My point is a good offensive system will ELEVATE the players in the system. If you just play pick and roll or ISO, you are depending on a James harden or Lebron to bail you out. If you don’t recruit like Kentucky, that can be hard.

 

[ancienthooper]

I think Pikes himself is sick of the "clang, clank, clunk" of errant shots. In the Carino article he made several references to shooting, “I know the needs – we need some age and guys who can shoot the basketball."

Interesting that he gives a very candid interview and at present there's an underwhelming 10 responses. I'm sure people will say it's "Coach-speak" or "Pikes-speak" so who cares? Or is it what he said doesn't fit the narrative of a lot of posters, so they choose to ignore?

 

[Eagleton96]

Pikiell's teams over the last 5 years have never averaged 70pts a game.
Uconn has never averaged under 70 pts a game during that period and has averaged over 75 twice and over 80 once.
How do you argue with those facts?
That included a roster in 19-20 that had Yaboah, Young, Harper and Baker ( not to mention Peter Kiss)
BTW , in 75-76 Rutgers averaged 93pts a game

Recruiting and pace explain 100% of the disparity without having to look at offensive scheme.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Pikiell's teams over the last 5 years have never averaged 70pts a game.
Uconn has never averaged under 70 pts a game during that period and has averaged over 75 twice and over 80 once.
How do you argue with those facts?
That included a roster in 19-20 that had Yaboah, Young, Harper and Baker ( not to mention Peter Kiss)
BTW , in 75-76 Rutgers averaged 93pts a game

@ Hawk - this is why the target of your debunk should be modified slightly.

It still could “be true” that UConn and Oregon run better offense than Rutgers and is certainly the case that Rutgers hasn’t historically been a good offensive team (your stats are player stats - not team stats).

But what definitely is not true (supported by your OP) that Rutgers offense held back the development of the players that left for those places.

 

[The RUT]

Is there a metric to determine quality of looks?

I watch these games in March and generally speaking the team getting the best looks is the one that advances.

Obviously there are going to be outliers like Oakland where you have one guy just go bananas, but that’s not a reliable effort for me.

It’s the same thing that happens here, we look like crap, then have one random night where a player pops off, and everyone says “see, we just need to shoot better.”

No. We don’t need to shoot better. We need to put these players in a position to succeed. You need to get them clean looks at the hoop at a high rate to increase your percentages.

It doesn’t even need to be a large bump. If getting consistent good looks increase our team percentage by 5%, that makes a HUGE difference.

QD was our best offensive player in my lifetime. The dude ran around off ball screens and got looks all day. If the defender stuck with him, they would just do a ball reversal and attack the weak side.

I know college bball is all ball screens now, but why can’t we run action like that a few times a game?