Fran Brown vs Greg Long Term

[mildone]

this is the answer to both ??

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Ah. Never heard of that band. To be fair, that's a pretty obscure reference. 🙂

 

[mdk01]

I can confidently predict, with absolute certainty, that Brown will either succeed wildly, or fail miserably, or else he will land somewhere between those two extremes.

Everyone seems to want to argue in this thread. So go ahead, prove me wrong. 🤨

Sounds definitive to me.

 

[Hardslider21]

If Fran Brown delivers what some here are suggesting then I don't believe he will be there long. If he proves capable of both bringing in better players and handling the HC duties well, then a bigger, better program in a bigger, better conference will whisk him away.

The Brown/Robinson combination is already hitting NJ. I see multiple crystal balls put in for them flipping WR Hornsby from Texas A&M to Sara

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

he is 0-16 vs OSU/PSU/Mich/Wisc/Iowa
Teams that almost never lose to anyone but themselves.
So- taking over the Ash mess- he is 9-11 against the rest of the B1G outside the top 5.

And don’t forget - undefeated OOC (perfect 9-0).

 

[mdk01]

Ah. Never heard of that band. To be fair, that's a pretty obscure reference. 🙂

British Invasion circa '64-'65

 

[mildone]

British Invasion circa '64-'65

I'd say that confirms it as a pretty obscure reference here in late 2023, no? I'd have to ask my mom about it, but my 'rents weren't exactly rock music lovers. 😀

 

[krup]

You said the fact that better schools haven't jumped on him as full DC or HC and that he had to settle for a lower status school like Syracuse says a lot about how his coaching ability is perceived.


I'm saying even if that is the perception it doesn't mean it's reality. It might be or might not be reality.

Regardless of whether it's DC or HC or whatever having no alternatives besides a lower status school isn't something you can read into about his ability. I think most likely it won't work out (that's not saying much because more often than not hires generally don't) but I can't say that's because no one higher up gave him a shot. Like I said ADs don't go off the beaten path much, that's why only a Kansas would give a Leipold a shot or KSU for Klieman. Better schools didn't jump on them either. Only when they did well there did suddenly other schools take notice and think about them as candidates. Also suddenly then a name like Cignetti at JMU or Chesney at HC seems more plausible as candidates because of what Leipold, Klieman, DeBoer have accomplished.

As for coordinators we see how much coaches more often than not stick in their cocoon of guys they've worked with so if Brown doesn't have a good enough network he might not get that shot. Look at Buh here, he's been lousy everywhere as DC but still got a shot as DC here because he knew Ash and that kind of thing isn't an exception.

Lack of opportunity doesn't necessarily say anything about acumen, it may or may not. We don't know. Lack of opportunity just means lack of opportunity sometimes or not getting that lucky break.

He's got his opportunity now, so we'll find out. Same for Robinson. Notice now that his buddy (just like other HCs) got a HC spot he's got an opportunity as DC. With him too, he's got his shot now so we'll find out.

Brown isn’t an unknown commodity. He is well known as an exceptional recruiter. Most head coaches understand that in cfb if you don’t get the right players coaching can only do so much.

Yet, even starting with that huge positive on his resume, schools (including Rutgers) have looked at how he is as a position coach and decided he isn’t worth a shot as a DC. That says a LOT about what they are seeing when they look at him as an actual coach.

 

[Caliknight]

The will get recruits. They will lose. They will stop getting recruits and lose even more.

You can't build a football program without people that know how to coach and Fran, for all of his recruiting prowess, is a terrible coach. He's going to be completely overwhelmed. Desperation hire, but really, what other choices do they have?

 

[mildone]

This seems like a good time to remind people of the Zen master and the boy. The point of which being...

We'll see.

 

[Steve91562]

Recruiting is only about 50% of college football. Fran does that at a high level. The rest is talent evaluation, development, game day coaching ect. No idea how well he and his staff will do in those areas. HC also has to run the program. That's CEO skills. All this stuff will eventually take time away from recruiting. His DC also has never called plays. His OC has some experience, at Baylor I believe. Who knows how well he'll adapt, but comparing a HC in the B10 to the puff ball schedule the Fruit play is not apples to apples. Even with his recruiting skills, Fran would get slaughtered in the BIG. It may work however in a lesser conference with an easier schedule.

If recruiting was everything, you expect Miami and A&M to have better results, and they actually have/had average/decent coaches.

Sometimes coaches are called "great recruiters" because they can't coach. Ok, that's a hackneyed stereotype, but we'll see how it shakes out for Fran. Now days, with the portal and NIL, it's not only getting guys, but keeping them too.

 

[pmvon]

You really think if Fran is truly a better long term hire, he's going to be at Syracuse long term? You have to have a lot of balls in the air as a HC and make sure they're all doing exactly what you want them to do. Not an easy job.

Think Fran would have been a more slam dunk hire, pre- 2021. Now it doesn't matter how cool you are if the other one has more money for the player. He will live and die by how he recruits DONORS to NIL. That's the new game. Waiting for our HC to realize and truly commit. We need a program within the program to make big money players to feel like owners. An experience they can't say no to. Everything else you do pales in comparison to the success of that. That's just the way it is now.

This is the thing. If Brown can actually turn that program around, he will be gone fast. No way they can complete with the big dollars. So these kids who are hitching their wagon will be looking for a new home if their hopes actually pan out. So not good for them. Greg will be here for their entire college career. They’re young so don’t think they’ve thought it through. Just enamored by a personality.

 

[RUbacker]

I think Fran Brown will be a better LT hire. Schiano's developmental program realistic ceiling seems like 8-4 or 7-5. In less than a week, Syracuse is now involved with several 4 stars [without a great NIL situation]. Everyone will argue that Brown has no HC experience and in watching his press conference I can see why recruits like him so much and you have to start somewhere! I give it 2-3 years and we will wish he was our HC. Stars MATTER! Great hire for Cuse

Weird post.

 

[RUbacker]

Fran Brown will be lucky to last as long as the previous guy, Dino Babers, 8 years. I predict Schiano will be kicked out 3-4 years if he doesn't get the passing offense in the right direction. Fran might last 5-6 years. Nobody going to consistently recruit highly rated recruits to Syracuse and everything depends on his OC hire which is probably more important than the head coach. They are getting a guy from the Giants who coaches running backs, not a OC. He was co-offensive coordinator at Baylor, probably a learning experience.

Lol Schiano won’t be kicked out.

 

[NickRU714]

This is the thing. If Brown can actually turn that program around, he will be gone fast. No way they can complete with the big dollars. So these kids who are hitching their wagon will be looking for a new home if their hopes actually pan out. So not good for them. Greg will be here for their entire college career. They’re young so don’t think they’ve thought it through. Just enamored by a personality.

I've never understood this argument.

So a school should NOT hire someone they think will be very successful very quickly?
Because they may end up leaving.
Leaving the school as a much better job opportunity then it was before.

"He's likely to have a couple 10 win seasons quickly. We don't want that kind of success. Go for the guy that will take 5-6 years to be successful because we know he'll stick around".
Is that the conversation?

 

[rutgersdave]

With the great 2024 Syracuse recruiting class, they are the seventh best recruiting class in the ACC. What a great feat? I guess they will come in 7th in the ACC conference.

Syracuse will crawl out of the bottom of the barrel to the middle of the barrel.

 

[chase_NJ]

I've never understood this argument.

So a school should NOT hire someone they think will be very successful very quickly?
Because they may end up leaving.
Leaving the school as a much better job opportunity then it was before.

"He's likely to have a couple 10 win seasons quickly. We don't want that kind of success. Go for the guy that will take 5-6 years to be successful because we know he'll stick around".
Is that the conversation?

No one is making that argument.

He's simply saying that if Fran is successful immediately, he will be gone within 2 years. If Greg gets to 10 wins next year, he's not gone. That's it. That's the statement. Nothing more.

 

[colbert17]

this is the answer to both ??

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Summer of 1965 I was very, very young and saw them at the Steel Pier in Atlantic City.
The girls were screaming so much I couldn't hear anything. My first unofficial concert experience. Still list Sly and the Family Stone at MSG 1970/71 as my first official concert.

 

[mdk01]

Summer of 1965 I was very, very young and saw them at the Steel Pier in Atlantic City.
The girls were screaming so much I couldn't hear anything. My first unofficial concert experience. Still list Sly and the Family Stone at MSG 1970/71 as my first official concert.

If it was summer '71 I was there. '69 at MSG I saw Hendrix Memorial Day Weekend.

 

[Knight Shift]

I've never understood this argument.

So a school should NOT hire someone they think will be very successful very quickly?
Because they may end up leaving.
Leaving the school as a much better job opportunity then it was before.

"He's likely to have a couple 10 win seasons quickly. We don't want that kind of success. Go for the guy that will take 5-6 years to be successful because we know he'll stick around".
Is that the conversation?

I agree with you that this may have been legit in the past. But just look at the mass exodus out of UW when their coach left. We may see a similar phenomenon with the Arizona coach taking the UW job. With NIL, the players seem to be more mobile than before, and they will go where they can make the most money and showcase their talents. Assuming a coach has a great 2 years (Fisch had three at Arizona, DeBoer had 2 at UW.

Looking at it that way, maybe it makes sense to hire a program builder. Maybe not. It's gotten all so confusing and complicated. But in a way, it's nice to see the floodgates opened and the players have the same mobility and lack of loyalty the coaches always had.

 

[Knight Shift]

No one is making that argument.

He's simply saying that if Fran is successful immediately, he will be gone within 2 years. If Greg gets to 10 wins next year, he's not gone. That's it. That's the statement. Nothing more.

How do we know he is not gone? Hypothetical. Greg goes 11-1 in the regular season. Miami fires Cristobal or the Penn State or Michigan job is open, and they offer Greg $10M plus to take the job. That's $4M more a year than he is making now. Maybe he would turn it down. Many people would not.

 

[mdk01]

How do we know he is not gone? Hypothetical. Greg goes 11-1 in the regular season. Miami fires Cristobal or the Penn State or Michigan job is open, and they offer Greg $10M plus to take the job. That's $4M more a year than he is making now. Maybe he would turn it down. Many people would not.

What bonuses kick in at Rutgers if he goes 11-1?

 

[Knight Shift]

What bonuses kick in at Rutgers if he goes 11-1?

I don't think the new contract has been made available yet. Think we would have seen it from NJ.com and a lovely headline announcing the details. We will see that headline when it becomes available.
Even so, Harbaugh picked up an additional $3M in bonuses this year. That's almost as much as Greg made this year. Harbaugh's base salary for 2023 was $8.2 million.

 

[colbert17]

If it was summer '71 I was there. '69 at MSG I saw Hendrix Memorial Day Weekend.

I think that it was sometime around Labor Day weekend. Rare Earth was one of the opening acts and the other was a female singer who I don't remember. I do remember all the pot smoke rising to the ceiling.
A couple of months later I went back to see Donovan do a show in the round. Talk about a contrast in music.

 

[RUTGERS95]

How do we know he is not gone? Hypothetical. Greg goes 11-1 in the regular season. Miami fires Cristobal or the Penn State or Michigan job is open, and they offer Greg $10M plus to take the job. That's $4M more a year than he is making now. Maybe he would turn it down. Many people would not.

we should be so lucky

 

[oldtimer67]

Any one disagree that he needs 30 P5 quality players to go bowling?

How many of them are on the remaining current roster, many of which are still there because they had no chance to go somewhere else?

Would love to have someone tracking how he is doing with the 30. And, most of them are not big name skill position players. How many 4 star OL and DL is he "in the mix" with?

The guy is undefeated next year and he still does not know if he can even field a competitive team. Plus, all the other coaches in the ACC will have something to say about his success.

 

[needmorecowbell]

I think Fran Brown will be a better LT hire. Schiano's developmental program realistic ceiling seems like 8-4 or 7-5. In less than a week, Syracuse is now involved with several 4 stars [without a great NIL situation]. Everyone will argue that Brown has no HC experience and in watching his press conference I can see why recruits like him so much and you have to start somewhere! I give it 2-3 years and we will wish he was our HC. Stars MATTER! Great hire for Cuse

Anything is possible but no one with a brain would take a first time head coach, who never was a coordinator at any level, over someone who has done it successfully multiple times.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I see a couple of guys making it a negative that we may be around 7-5 8-4 all the time with Greg.
And the talk of Brown a Cuse like he is going to get them to the top of the ACC- do you same guys think that anything Brown may put together at Cuse over the next 4 years could be a consistent 7/8 game winner in the B1G East?

 

[rutgersdave]

I see a couple of guys making it a negative that we may be around 7-5 8-4 all the time with Greg.
And the talk of Brown a Cuse like he is going to get them to the top of the ACC- do you same guys think that anything Brown may put together at Cuse over the next 4 years could be a consistent 7/8 game winner in the B1G East?

2025 Syracuse Football Schedule | FBSchedules.com

View the 2025 Syracuse Football Schedule at FBSchedules.com. The Orange football schedule includes opponents, date, time, and TV.

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View the 2027 Syracuse Football Schedule at FBSchedules.com. The Orange football schedule includes opponents, date, time, and TV.

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Looks like a 5 win season for both 2025 and 2027. 2026 is more like 7 wins. They had several 4 wins seasons under Dino Barbers so they are on the upswing. They move to the middle of the pack. They don’t out recruit the top teams in the ACC. Fran Brown at Rutgers wouldn’t be able to out recruit Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Oregon or USC.

 

[dontestrond]

This thread is hilarious. Put it like this. If College football develops a revenue sharing model with players, all I’m going to say is

Rutgers: 800 million 10 year gross in just tv money

Syracuse : 240 million

 

[mdk01]

I think that it was sometime around Labor Day weekend. Rare Earth was one of the opening acts and the other was a female singer who I don't remember. I do remember all the pot smoke rising to the ceiling.
A couple of months later I went back to see Donovan do a show in the round. Talk about a contrast in music.

Yup. And Sly was was "late" by about half an hour as was his custom.

 

[RUNYGDVLSFAN]

Let's anoint Fran as the NCAA Coach of the year, right now... .Holy Shit... stop it... he recruited well before and still does it... is that a surprise? Being a coach... a winning one has to actually yield wins. And do so yearly...and maintain integrity of program. If he does this and does it sooner than later, then great. My god, everyone was making Deion Sanders the Coach of year, CFP bound, etc. etc... no doubt he is exciting, but time will tell.. not one season or a few recruits. And if both turn out better than Schiano, then so be it... I am happy with GS right now and hope all goes even better next season and beyond for RU.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Ah. Never heard of that band. To be fair, that's a pretty obscure reference. 🙂

Not that obscure. Way before my time, but I was aware of both the band and the song.

What bonuses kick in at Rutgers if he goes 11-1?

Prima Noctae

Anything is possible but no one with a brain would take a first time head coach who never was a coordinator at any level over someone who has done it successfully multiple time.

But, but, but, but..........................it's Fran Brown!!!!

 

[mildone]

Not that obscure. Way before my time, but I was aware of both the band and the song.

You’re a DJ. That makes you aware of a huge amount of bands that at are obscure to us lay people.

Whereas I have several hundred songs, at least, in my Spotify library for which I couldn’t tell you the artist or song title. I remember how songs sound, but often never learn or care who performs it.

 

[pmvon]

I've never understood this argument.

So a school should NOT hire someone they think will be very successful very quickly?
Because they may end up leaving.
Leaving the school as a much better job opportunity then it was before.

"He's likely to have a couple 10 win seasons quickly. We don't want that kind of success. Go for the guy that will take 5-6 years to be successful because we know he'll stick around".
Is that the conversation?

I’m not talking about from the schools perspective. Of course they try. I’m talking about from a recruits perspective. One might want to think about how long a coach will be at the school he’s committing to play at for 4-5 years.

 

[Knight Shift]

 

[colbert17]

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Last time we saw this much excitement on this board about a coaching hire was when Colorado hired their new coach. At least that guy had some head coaching experience.
I have nothing against Fran but there is a big difference between being an ace recruiter and a FBS head coach. Let's see how things go. Last time I looked his all time record was 0-0.

 

[Knight Shift]

Last time we saw this much excitement on this board about a coaching hire was when Colorado hired their new coach. At least that guy had some head coaching experience.
I have nothing against Fran but there is a big difference between being an ace recruiter and a FBS head coach. Let's see how things go. Last time I looked his all time record was 0-0.

Yeah, I'm in no way propping Fran up, nor am I tearing him down. Time will tell if he and his team can take their recruiting successes and turn that into success on the field and scoreboard. Obviously, recruiting is a big part of the game, and Fran is winning big right now. Syracuse fans have reason to be excited and optimistic after things added badly with Babers.

 

[rutgersal]

You really think if Fran is truly a better long term hire, he's going to be at Syracuse long term? You have to have a lot of balls in the air as a HC and make sure they're all doing exactly what you want them to do. Not an easy job.

Think Fran would have been a more slam dunk hire, pre- 2021. Now it doesn't matter how cool you are if the other one has more money for the player. He will live and die by how he recruits DONORS to NIL. That's the new game. Waiting for our HC to realize and truly commit. We need a program within the program to make big money players to feel like owners. An experience they can't say no to. Everything else you do pales in comparison to the success of that. That's just the way it is now.

The reason Syracuse has the class they have is due to NIL donors. Hornsby and McCord are NIL kids. There are likely more. We are playing catchup in this area. Hopefully more fans step up.

 

[Knight Shift]

I've never understood this argument.

So a school should NOT hire someone they think will be very successful very quickly?
Because they may end up leaving.
Leaving the school as a much better job opportunity then it was before.

"He's likely to have a couple 10 win seasons quickly. We don't want that kind of success. Go for the guy that will take 5-6 years to be successful because we know he'll stick around".
Is that the conversation?

See below.

I agree with you that this may have been legit in the past. But just look at the mass exodus out of UW when their coach left. We may see a similar phenomenon with the Arizona coach taking the UW job. With NIL, the players seem to be more mobile than before, and they will go where they can make the most money and showcase their talents. Assuming a coach has a great 2 years (Fisch had three at Arizona, DeBoer had 2 at UW.

Looking at it that way, maybe it makes sense to hire a program builder. Maybe not. It's gotten all so confusing and complicated. But in a way, it's nice to see the floodgates opened and the players have the same mobility and lack of loyalty the coaches always had.

Not sure if you have access to The Athletic @NickRU714 - but I found this quote kind of hilarious about Fisch leaving for UW:


"Fisch isn’t a backstabber. He’s a coach with a family. I would have done the same thing."

He wasnt starving at Arizona, making $3.25 million per year. Unless he is a poor money manager or lives an extravagant lifestyle, he is set for life.

But the article makes some points about lower rung P5 programs competing against top tier programs and how do they hang onto coaches.

Wasserman: Don't fault coaches for bolting, but their players shouldn't be allowed to follow

This was a tough week for Arizona. It could be even worse if the core of the 2023 team is lighting up scoreboards for Washington next fall.

theathletic.com

 

[yesrutgers01]

See below.

Not sure if you have access to The Athletic @NickRU714 - but I found this quote kind of hilarious about Fisch leaving for UW:


"Fisch isn’t a backstabber. He’s a coach with a family. I would have done the same thing."

He wasnt starving at Arizona, making $3.25 million per year. Unless he is a poor money manager or lives an extravagant lifestyle, he is set for life.

But the article makes some points about lower rung P5 programs competing against top tier programs and how do they hang onto coaches.

Wasserman: Don't fault coaches for bolting, but their players shouldn't be allowed to follow

This was a tough week for Arizona. It could be even worse if the core of the 2023 team is lighting up scoreboards for Washington next fall.

theathletic.com

There is no one in their right mind that would not have made that move. $4 mil more per year plus 2 extra years. Better resources and support…