Friend opined that RU was fortunate

[Upstream]

I've been saying this forever. Big East basketball and Colonial football would not be a bad deal.

How is that not a bad deal. The amount of money that UConn earns from the AAC is much greater than what the Big East pays. And the payout from the Colonial conference is negligible and doesn't make a dent in the difference. And while FCS football is cheaper than FBS football, most of the savings is in scholarship costs and capital costs, and UConn has already invested in the capital costs because they already upgraded to FBS. Plus other revenue, such as ticket sales, would be much lower.

Dropping to FCS would be a huge money loser for UConn.

 

[bigmatt718]

How is that not a bad deal. The amount of money that UConn earns from the AAC is much greater than what the Big East pays. And the payout from the Colonial conference is negligible and doesn't make a dent in the difference. And while FCS football is cheaper than FBS football, most of the savings is in scholarship costs and capital costs, and UConn has already invested in the capital costs because they already upgraded to FBS. Plus other revenue, such as ticket sales, would be much lower.

Dropping to FCS would be a huge money loser for UConn.

But on the other hand, if UConn football stays in FBS, their other sports will suffer significantly as the money dries up. They can't finance their other sports on an AAC budget with football.

 

[hoquat63]

To fact-check your fact-check of the fact-check, I found that your $203 M figure for state appropriations to Rutgers is wrong. The figure is more like $400 million -- remember, that includes what used to be UMDNJ. (We were not much above $250 million in the last non-UMDNJ year, but we were not near $203M)) The appropriations trend is downward even in non-inflation adjusted dollars.https://www.rutgers.edu/sites/default/files/Appropriations Trends FY97-FY17.pdf

Your numbers for U.Conn need clarification. How could a $143 M cut from $309 M take UConn to $230M? That is, by the way, a tremendous cut.

Budget and appropriation #s can be misleading. Been retired for a long time but back when I worked in budgeting, fringe benefits for RU employees were not included as part of RU appropriation # they were paid directly from the state budget.

 

[Upstream]

But on the other hand, if UConn football stays in FBS, their other sports will suffer significantly as the money dries up. They can't finance their other sports on an AAC budget with football.

That makes no sense. If they drop to FCS, they still have to fund football, basketball, and Olympic sports. In FCS, they'll lose more money on football than they do in the AAC, so they'd have even less money to fund other sports. If there is a risk of other sports suffering from staying in the AAC, that risk and suffering would be greater from them leaving the AAC and dropping to FCS.

 

[tico brown]

Worst college commercial ever made.

Is Apex Tech technically a college?

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

That makes no sense. If they drop to FCS, they still have to fund football, basketball, and Olympic sports. In FCS, they'll lose more money on football than they do in the AAC, so they'd have even less money to fund other sports. If there is a risk of other sports suffering from staying in the AAC, that risk and suffering would be greater from them leaving the AAC and dropping to FCS.

I tend to agree with the drop to FCS.. they can join a more local conference for most sports and keep their D1 basketball program by joining some other conference just for basketball.. Big East maybe?

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Budget and appropriation #s can be misleading. Been retired for a long time but back when I worked in budgeting, fringe benefits for RU employees were not included as part of RU appropriation # they were paid directly from the state budget.

I see.. that budget PDF shows a line for "State Paid Fringe" for about $127M for New Brunswick.. add that to the $203M and you are at $330M.. interestingly the RBHS numbers (UMDNJ) are greated for UMDNJ than Rutgers NB.

NJ State Appropriations
-New Brunswcik 203,013 (that's $203M, all figures in thousands)
-Newark 30,630
-Camden 16,671
-RBHS 183,656 (umdnj)
-Central 0
Total Rutgers System 433,971

State Paid Fringe (benefits?)
-New Brunswick 126,561
- Newark 39,957
-Camden 18,689
- RBHS 173,860 (umdnj)
- Central 85,674
Total Rutgers System 444,742

I have seen various Rutgers job postings and some specify they are state jobs, etc. I wonder how many of those jobs are mandated by the state and if Rutgers would have those positions if it were in its power to eliminate them... or to use non-union workers with lower benefits.

 

[retired711]

Budget and appropriation #s can be misleading. Been retired for a long time but back when I worked in budgeting, fringe benefits for RU employees were not included as part of RU appropriation # they were paid directly from the state budget.

It doesn't much matter if we're comparing budgets over time, because the methodology would probably be uniform for all of the years in question.

 

[Bagarocks]

One thing I learned in this thread... I never knew Fact Checkers could be fact checked by fact checkers checking fact checkers whew!

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

I've been saying this forever. Big East basketball and Colonial football would not be a bad deal. Too bad Connecticut invested so much state money in UConn football.

Look, we DID get lucky. If Rutgers was in Storrs, Conn., and UConn was in New Brunswick, of course they would be in. BUT Connecticut in the Big Ten is a joke. ACC? Perhaps if they ever get ND in as a full member and want an even number. But that's only marginally more likely than UConn being considered for the Big Ten.

If Uconn was founded in 1776 in New Brunswick before the United States was a country and fought the brits and had Henry Rutgers save the school when it almost close after the war and donated a bell and the school renamed themselves after him as a thank you, they wouldn't be Uconn they would still be RUTGERS!

Lucky? that is very dismissive. Rutgers wanted to join the Big Ten in 1989. But we were not ready just yet, there was still some talks about bring us in anyway in the early 1990's (before we joined the Big East) but that fell through, that was way, way BEFORE the BTN even existed. What is lucky about Rutgers creating a plan and following through with it? They got AAU membership, they built a brand new stadium in the 1990's and expanded it in the 2000's. They got serious about football and starting making bowl games. More so, they broke RATING records. Rutgers still has the some of and in some cases the highest rated games on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNnews, SNY, and BTN in the NYC TV market. Some of those records may NEVER be broken. We were in contact with the Big Ten for years before we got our invite. The biggest and most powerful schools in the Big Ten WANTED us to join.

I don't call it lucky, when you set a goal, work hard to make it happen and achieve that goal. That is not luck. That is the opposite of luck

Only the outsiders who never followed Rutgers and are not aware of the what we did leading up to the invite think we must have lucked into it. Those people have no idea what the hell they are talking about. Don't be like them. Don't repeat their stupid, you should know better.

 

[retired711]

If Uconn was founded in 1776 in New Brunswick before the United States was a country and fought the brits and had Henry Rutgers save the school when it almost close after the war and donated a bell and the school renamed themselves after him as a thank you, they wouldn't be Uconn they would still be RUTGERS!

Lucky? that is very dismissive. Rutgers wanted to join the Big Ten in 1989. But we were not ready just yet, there was still some talks about bring us in anyway in the early 1990's (before we joined the Big East) but that fell through, that was way, way BEFORE the BTN even existed. What is lucky about Rutgers creating a plan and following through with it? They got AAU membership, they built a brand new stadium in the 1990's and expanded it in the 2000's. They got serious about football and starting making bowl games. More so, they broke RATING records. Rutgers still has the some of and in some cases the highest rated games on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNnews, SNY, and BTN in the NYC TV market. Some of those records may NEVER be broken. We were in contact with the Big Ten for years before we got our invite. The biggest and most powerful schools in the Big Ten WANTED us to join.

I don't call it lucky, when you set a goal, work hard to make it happen and achieve that goal. That is not luck. That is the opposite of luck

Only the outsiders who never followed Rutgers and are not aware of the what we did leading up to the invite think we must have lucked into it. Those people have no idea what the hell they are talking about. Don't be like them. Don't repeat their stupid, you should know better.

Whatever you say about President Bloustein, he worked very hard to get Rutgers into the AAU. Thank heavens that Fran Lawrence or someone like that wasn't president.

 

[DJ Spanky]

We were in contact with the Big Ten for years before we got our invite. The biggest and most powerful schools in the Big Ten WANTED us to join.

One other nugget to remember: they were looking to invite us for 2010 when suddenly Nebraska came available (I'm not sure who contacted who in that case). If that hadn't happened, we would have joined at that point.

 

[hoquat63]

I see.. that budget PDF shows a line for "State Paid Fringe" for about $127M for New Brunswick.. add that to the $203M and you are at $330M.. interestingly the RBHS numbers (UMDNJ) are greated for UMDNJ than Rutgers NB.

NJ State Appropriations
-New Brunswcik 203,013 (that's $203M, all figures in thousands)
-Newark 30,630
-Camden 16,671
-RBHS 183,656 (umdnj)
-Central 0
Total Rutgers System 433,971

State Paid Fringe (benefits?)
-New Brunswick 126,561
- Newark 39,957
-Camden 18,689
- RBHS 173,860 (umdnj)
- Central 85,674
Total Rutgers System 444,742

I have seen various Rutgers job postings and some specify they are state jobs, etc. I wonder how many of those jobs are mandated by the state and if Rutgers would have those positions if it were in its power to eliminate them... or to use non-union workers with lower benefits.

Again 15 years out of the loop so I am not sure how it shows but RU reimbursed state for fringe benefits paid to Peale on grants and other soft money (grants pick up fringe costs in most cases). People on non stare funding I.e. grants, auxiliary services such as housing, student centers, dining services and athletics get same benefits, but grant funded people can get let go if grant funding expires. However, they are in unions and have seniority privileges, so a secretary on a grantaccount is entitled to bump a lower seniority starlet funded secretaryfrom same union if laid off.
While I was in Newark, campus did layoff custodial staff and contracted outfit those services. I believe they eventually went back to in house staff.

 

[DJ Spanky]

While I was in Newark, campus did layoff custodial staff and contracted outfit those services.

I'm sure someone got a cut of that deal, just like when they privatized the motor vehicle inspection services.

 

[retired711]

Again 15 years out of the loop so I am not sure how it shows but RU reimbursed state for fringe benefits paid to Peale on grants and other soft money (grants pick up fringe costs in most cases). People on non stare funding I.e. grants, auxiliary services such as housing, student centers, dining services and athletics get same benefits, but grant funded people can get let go if grant funding expires. However, they are in unions and have seniority privileges, so a secretary on a grantaccount is entitled to bump a lower seniority starlet funded secretaryfrom same union if laid off.
While I was in Newark, campus did layoff custodial staff and contracted outfit those services. I believe they eventually went back to in house staff.

The Camden campus out-sourced mail handling. There was a difficult period of adjustment, but now it's OK. The campus considered contracting out custodial staff, but people couldn't stand the idea of laying off staff they knew. Yes, secretaries can bump others, and I've seen it happen. The law school has never hired someone just because of a grant, but that's because we consider grants to be seed money for what will become permanent programs. I know it can't work that way in the rest of the university.

 

[hoquat63]

I'm sure someone got a cut of that deal, just like when they privatized the motor vehicle inspection services.

I’m sure you are wrong

 

[Knightmoves]

Whatever you say about President Bloustein, he worked very hard to get Rutgers into the AAU. Thank heavens that Fran Lawrence or someone like that wasn't president.

Fran Lawrence and little Dick McDermott were just short of disasters as RU Presidents IMO. McDermotts Dad Richard McDermott was probably the most respected RU prof in the 70’s. Didn’t know Dick McDermott other than a few meet and greets but Lawrence was in way over his head IMO. Played in a RU golf outing in his foursome and could not have been more disappointed in him after the round.

 

[hoquat63]

McDermitt ??? You mean McCormick

 

[Knightmoves]

McDermitt ??? You mean McCormick

Correct. See how soon he has been forgotten? My bad.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I'm sure someone got a cut of that deal, just like when they privatized the motor vehicle inspection services.

This is New Jersey.. privatize water? Sure, why not? Big payday for the friends and family plan... but heck.. with all the quid pro quo deals on union contracts we are going to pay either way.. the only difference is which politicians friends and family gets the payday.

we need something like the old "Death and Taxes" poster but for the New Jersey budget.

BTW.. if you have never seen this before.. zoom in on the middle first.. that will explain what's going on there.. then maybe check the total budget in rectangle on bottom-right.

Someone should send to to that Ocasio-Cortez (sp?)

 

[retired711]

Correct. See how soon he has been forgotten? My bad.

McCormick accomplished one extremely difficult task: he got rid of separate admissions to "colleges" that were in fact offering virtually exactly the same courses. He had to say "no" to a large and organized Douglass College contingent (including many alums who had long contributed). McCormick did make many mistakes, and he should never have been hired (he had a pants problem at Washington and was about to be ridden out of town on a rail), but give the man credit for his good deeds.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

McCormick accomplished one extremely difficult task: he got rid of separate admissions to "colleges" that were in fact offering virtually exactly the same courses. He had to say "no" to a large and organized Douglass College contingent (including many alums who had long contributed). McCormick did make many mistakes, and he should never have been hired (he had a pants problem at Washington and was about to be ridden out of town on a rail), but give the man credit for his good deeds.

McCormick also revitalized Livingston Campus.

 

[17Q66]

There have been several articles stating the B1G interest in Rutgers going as far back to the early 90s. This is just one of them written a few years ago reminding people of when the B1G begin expressing interest in Rutgers

https://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/09/no_matter_that_my_early_90s_ad.html

And commissioner after commissioner begging us, "PLEASE, would you people get your act together for just two straight years so we can get you in here?!"

 

[17Q66]

McCormick also revitalized Livingston Campus.

There are a lot of suicide missions in the job descriptions for Rutgers executives.

 

[TommyGunn]

Never understood our superiority complex over UConn. Objectively:

- they have higher academic ratings (US News)
- they have a much stronger sports history than we do (duh)
- Today if we played them in women's basketball we would get crushed
- Today if we played them in men's basketball they would kick our ass
- Today if we played them in football we would probably be field goal favorites

 

[ruthetiger]

UCONNwas never given a serious thought. They weren't even an afterthought, or a lost thought. UCONN was never seriously considered at all.

If they were, their phone would have been ringing.

 

[mdh2003]

- Today if we played them in football we would probably be field goal favorites

Perhaps, but we'd still win by 14+. We may be bad, but they are awful.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Never understood our superiority complex over UConn. Objectively:

- they have higher academic ratings (US News)
- they have a much stronger sports history than we do (duh)
- Today if we played them in women's basketball we would get crushed
- Today if we played them in men's basketball they would kick our ass
- Today if we played them in football we would probably be field goal favorites

Who said that? Perhaps you. The point others were making was about Rutgers having an opportunity to be in a better conference and situation. UConn isn't, and they are sour about it. The perception of their sports being superior is based off the success of a few in the last 25 years. Overall, I don't think they had more success than Rutgers if you include all of the sports history of both schools. But hey, typical of some RU fans, or should I say part-time fans, always taking the time to knock Rutgers while putting opposing schools on a pedestal to make a point.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Tommy,Rutgers is currently ranked number 32 IN THE WORLD. U Conn is not even in the top 100.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Perhaps, but we'd still win by 14+. We may be bad, but they are awful.

We would win by a hell a lot more than 14. We are bad compared to OSU, MSU, PSU, Michigan.

.Uconn got wrecked out by a FCS team and barely beat a FCS team last year, it took last minute luck to edge out a win over a FCS.

We won our FCS game 65-0 last year.

You can't really compare Rutgers to Uconn anymore, those days are long gone.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Never understood our superiority complex over UConn. Objectively:

- they have higher academic ratings (US News)
- they have a much stronger sports history than we do (duh)
- Today if we played them in women's basketball we would get crushed
- Today if we played them in men's basketball they would kick our ass
- Today if we played them in football we would probably be field goal favorites

One other thing, go to UConn's site or SU site, and you will see threads that go for 200 pages about Rutgers. You will be lucky to see a thread about them every once in a blue moon on this site. They are the ones who have an inferiority complex. We have put them in the rearview mirror since we no longer play them on a regular basis.

 

[chrisru99]

One other thing, go to UConn's site or SU site, and you will see threads that go for 200 pages about Rutgers. You will be lucky to see a thread about them every once in a blue moon on this site. They are the ones who have an inferiority complex. We have put them in the rearview mirror since we no longer play them on a regular basis.

I agree the consensus is that they are upset that we are in the BIG. They feel that we do not belong in the conference since we have pretty much sucked at sports. They understand why we are In the conference (TV Revenue). They just do not accept it and since we continue to be bad at sports they get a laugh from it. We are in and that’s it there gonna have to deal with it.

 

[ru66]

can this post be shut down--its a waste of time--UConn is meaningless to RU

 

[retired711]

I agree the consensus is that they are upset that we are in the BIG. They feel that we do not belong in the conference since we have pretty much sucked at sports. They understand why we are In the conference (TV Revenue). They just do not accept it and since we continue to be bad at sports they get a laugh from it. We are in and that’s it there gonna have to deal with it.

Since UConn has had far more success in sports over the years than we have, it is quite natural that they resent that we are in the B1G that they are not. (Syracuse, which has at least one national football championship and one national basketball championship, undoubtedly feels the same way). There's no reason to get our panties in a twist about it -- just ignore them, or admit that, in fact, we were lucky. There's nothing wrong with benefiting from luck.

 

[Scarlet Jerry]

Woah - We were not “lucky” - we earned it. We went to a series of bowl games over many years, showing great fan support and winning many of them. We built a beautiful on campus stadium that had large crowds and thrilling games on ESPN. We have a tradition of playing big time teams for decades, and we owned TV ratings on several networks. We had a legit Heisman trophy candidate and sent many players to the NFL. We are an AAU university and an academic research powerhouse. We are ranked as a leading university in the world.

UConn was the one that was lucky. They made it to the Fiesta Bowl as an 8-4 team. It was a complete fluke. Their fans didn’t show up, and they got destroyed on national TV. They built a small off campus stadium. A very off campus stadium. They were a IAA team until very recently. They had excellent basketball teams, but basketball doesn’t drive the bus. They are a nice New England school who should never had made the jump to big time football. It was too late and a poor fit for them.

Case closed.

Scarlet Jerry

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Woah - We were not “lucky” - we earned it. We went to a series of bowl games over many years, showing great fan support and winning many of them. We built a beautiful on campus stadium that had large crowds and thrilling games on ESPN. We have a tradition of playing big time teams for decades, and we owned TV ratings on several networks. We had a legit Heisman trophy candidate and sent many players to the NFL. We are an AAU university and an academic research powerhouse. We are ranked as a leading university in the world.

UConn was the one that was lucky. They made it to the Fiesta Bowl as an 8-4 team. It was a complete fluke. Their fans didn’t show up, and they got destroyed on national TV. They built a small off campus stadium. A very off campus stadium. They were a IAA team until very recently. They had excellent basketball teams, but basketball doesn’t drive the bus. They are a nice New England school who should never had made the jump to big time football. It was too late and a poor fit for them.

Case closed.

Scarlet Jerry

 

[mdh2003]

Since UConn has had far more success in sports over the years than we have, it is quite natural that they resent that we are in the B1G that they are not. (Syracuse, which has at least one national football championship and one national basketball championship, undoubtedly feels the same way). There's no reason to get our panties in a twist about it -- just ignore them, or admit that, in fact, we were lucky. There's nothing wrong with benefiting from luck.

With respect to uconn and luck, the ONLY reason uconn is on any radar at all is MBB. And while most coaches flame out, they absolutely hit the luckiest jackpot of all to hire a hall of famer. Otherwise, they are U of M (Maine...not Michigan).

Academics and ANY other sport other than football has almost no meaning in this. All of this is about money. Money is driven by eyeballs and football. The state of Connecticut is either bad or non existent, in terms of playing or support or interest, on all levels of football.

Plus, it looks like uconn's state support may be dwindling. If so, they are literally a dead program walking.

So, no twisting on this end(rear). This is fun.