General discussion

[theRU]

I casually follow and know were building. We've taken some good teams to the edge and even won some nice games... We've also taken some bad losses. Wtf happened with ILL? I assumed they were decent when I saw they beat us but they're scrapping the bottom of standings with us and they put up 90? Perfect storm ? Are we the most inconsistent team or what?

 

[shields]

Also no Mike Williams and guards were getting tired. Many different factors. Why are the johnnies playing so well now?

 

[PiscatawayMike]

I casually follow and know were building. We've taken some good teams to the edge and even won some nice games... We've also taken some bad losses. Wtf happened with ILL? I assumed they were decent when I saw they beat us but they're scrapping the bottom of standings with us and they put up 90? Perfect storm ? Are we the most inconsistent team or what?

Way too inconsistent. We don't play with the same fire every game.

 

[dpwhite]

No Mike Williams. Eugene Omoruyi dislocated his knee in front of the team on the court. Illinois plays a defense we match up really poorly against... we're not great on the road...

 

[bac2therac]

there was no excuse for the Illinois beatdown none, its one thing to lose, its another to lose by 30 to a team that was last place. Arguably though Illinois has more talent than RU. The real bad losses were Stony Brook and Hartford

 

[RUChoppin]

Away game 3 days after a prior away game. Started off cold, let them build a lead with surprisingly hot outside shooting... Sa went out for the game when he got raked through the eye and sent his contact flying... Omoruyi went out for the game (and two weeks) with a dislocated knee...

Down two bigs, Freeman/Doucoure were also in foul trouble, and Freeman fouled out with just 18 min on the court. Doucoure had 4 fouls in 17 min. Without any threat of any post presence, the Illini clamped down on Corey, who struggled.

Perfect storm of injuries (down 3 players between Williams, Sa, and Omoruyi... with two lost during the course of the game), fatigue, and foul trouble.

 

[RUChoppin]

Looking at our upcoming rematch, we should be back to a full complement of players, playing at home on senior night, and coming off of 5 days from the prior game. Should be a very different ballgame.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

there was no excuse for the Illinois beatdown none, its one thing to lose, its another to lose by 30 to a team that was last place. Arguably though Illinois has more talent than RU. The real bad losses were Stony Brook and Hartford

I thought our effort, or rather lack of it, vs. Indiana was the worst this season.

 

[theRU]

Thanks!

 

[soundcrib]

Looking at our upcoming rematch, we should be back to a full complement of players, playing at home on senior night, and coming off of 5 days from the prior game. Should be a very different ballgame.

We get them back with a Senior day W.

 

[MadRU]

Illinois is a tough matchup for us. They play very aggressive in your face defense all over the court and they have quick players. Watching them play Indiana last night (First half), Indiana had real problems getting into their sets. You have to move the ball quickly and have good movement off the ball, which is things we struggle with.

Illinois struggles on the road, but I still worry about this game.

The Hartford and Stony Brook losses were WTF losses that happened to follow the biggest high point of the season.

 

[RUJMM78]

The lack of shooters/scorers is the main reason Rutgers has no consistency game to game.Combine that fact with the abysmal road record gives Rutgers no margin for error .

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

oh, I thought this was going to be about the military leadership...my bad.

 

[RU-ROCS]

No Mike Williams. Eugene Omoruyi dislocated his knee in front of the team on the court. Illinois plays a defense we match up really poorly against... we're not great on the road...

All true, but the list of excuses reminded me of this classic Belushi scene:

 

[RURM85]

Not convinced a slow, grinding half court offense is the way to score points against Illinois, however it's what Rutgers does.
Watching Indiana play them last night. Indiana used a lot of transition offense to get ahead of the Illinois defense, as well as, a lot of cutting and mis-direction to get high percentage shots near the rim.

The issue for Rutgers is it will be tough to outscore Illinois by shooting from the outside and/or using the dribble drive right into their pack-line defense. Illinois has a few players that can score including Black and Frazier. One of the keys for defending Illinois is playing good perimeter defense especially against Frazier.

The last game of the regular season will be interesting and I'm not sure if we have the types of skills to outscore Illinois.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Exactly how many away games has RU won on the road in the B1G?

I don't see the Illinois loss as inconsistent.

 

[RUChoppin]

Exactly how many away games has RU won on the road in the B1G?

I don't see the Illinois loss as inconsistent.

It's not the loss that's inconsistent, but the margin... especially vs. a team at the bottom of the conference.

Of 16 away games, just 5 have been losses by 20 or more points.

31 pts: 2017-18 Purdue (27-8... currently #6/7 nationally, and likely 2-3 seed in the NCAA tournament)
31 pts: 2017-18 Illinois (12-15... currently last in B1G standings)
28 pts: 2016-17 Michigan State (20-15.. lost in 2nd round of NCAA tournament)
22 pts: 2017-18 Minnesota (14-14... was 13-3 and Top 15 before losing Lynch and going 1-11 since)
20 pts: 2016-17 Wisconsin (27-10... lost in Sweet 16)

Losing to Illinois this year by 31 points is something of an anomaly.

They also put up 91 points on us, which is more than we've allowed in any game this year, and only the second time we've allowed 90 points since Pike arrived (other time was the loss at eventual B1G Tourney champion Michigan last year)

Really hoping the return of Williams, Sa, and Omoruyi change the dynamics in that game. Also hoping we can keep their two starting guards from going 8/13 from range again.

 

[willisneverrana43]

The answer is 1. They've won only a single B1G game on the road. And that's over the entire B1G history, not just the last two years. Many of them were by double digits, some by more than 30 points against unranked teams. If you limit the comparison to only Pikiell's 2 years, RU still has only 1 B1G road win. And if you think that a 31-point road loss to Illinois is an "anomaly," you're arguing against the OP's claim that RU is "the most inconsistent team."

RU under Pikiell has been relatively consistent. A number of RU team's have pulled home upsets over the years (like this year's against SHU). But that doesn't make them inconsistent. It makes them a bad team that sometimes pulls home upsets.

 

[RUChoppin]

The answer is 1. They've won only a single B1G game on the road. And that's over the entire B1G history, not just the last two years. Many of them were by double digits, some by more than 30 points against unranked teams. If you limit the comparison to only Pikiell's 2 years, RU still has only 1 B1G road win. And if you think that a 31-point road loss to Illinois is an "anomaly," you're arguing against the OP's claim that RU is "the most inconsistent team."

RU under Pikiell has been relatively consistent. A number of RU team's have pulled home upsets over the years (like this year's against SHU). But that doesn't make them inconsistent. It makes them a bad team that sometimes pulls home upsets.

They are inconsistent - wasn't arguing that. Illinois was still an anomaly. Those aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

Illinois was anomalous for the reasons I had already stated above.

 

[bac2therac]

RU was already down double digits by the time Eugene got hurt.

 

[RUChoppin]

RU was already down double digits by the time Eugene got hurt.

Sure, but not 31.

Williams was out, and we lost Sa very early. On the play Omoruyi got hurt, we were down 15 points, and Corey left his man to run to the bench after seeing Eugene go down, which allowed another three to push it to 18.... Freeman already had 3 fouls, and Doucoure had 2.

There was no chance of a comeback at that point - but the chances of even keeping it competitive/close in the second half also evaporated with injuries and foul trouble mounting.

We've been down double digits before - we were down double digits against Northwestern. And Seton Hall. And the OT game at MSU. Usually the defense stays strong throughout the game - but in the case of Illinois, we spiraled and allowed a bad team to go off for 91.

 

[willisneverrana43]

They are inconsistent - wasn't arguing that. Illinois was still an anomaly. Those aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

Illinois was anomalous for the reasons I had already stated above.

Not mutually exclusive just damn close here. RU’s consistency is nowhere near worse than your average team. It’s probably better. It’s just that their ordinary performance level is very bad. That’s what has kept them so firmly planted at or near last place every single year in the B1G, including this one. Hell, one problem is how little their year-long performance level has strayed from predictions—since the predictions are always bad.

And, again, it’s no answer to point to the inevitable outliers—like SHU—that almost every team has over the course of a 30+ game season. You need something unusual in its variation, something that makes RU the “most inconsistent team.” You don’t have it. Ask all the B1G coaches and beat writers who have had no difficulty predicting RU’s year-long performance every year that RU’s been in the league. With RU, you almost always are right about what’s coming. Very consistent.

 

[willisneverrana43]

. . . Usually the defense stays strong throughout the game . . .

Yes, usually. But not consistently. No, not that.

 

[RUChoppin]

Not mutually exclusive just damn close here. RU’s consistency is nowhere near worse than your average team. It’s probably better. It’s just that their ordinary performance level is very bad. That’s what has kept them so firmly planted at or near last place every single year in the B1G, including this one. Hell, one problem is how little their year-long performance level has strayed from predictions—since the predictions are always bad.

And, again, it’s no answer to point to the inevitable outliers—like SHU—that almost every team has over the course of a 30+ game season. You need something unusual in its variation, something that makes RU the “most inconsistent team.” You don’t have it. Ask all the B1G coaches and beat writers who have had no difficulty predicting RU’s year-long performance every year that RU’s been in the league. With RU, you almost always are right about what’s coming. Very consistent.

Not sure what you're arguing here. The OP asked what happened at Illinois. I've gone through that a couple of times. It was not a normal game.

To argue that this was just "inconsistency" would mean that there was nothing otherwise unusual about the game. That's BS.

If you want to talk about larger concepts like team inconsistency or overall record "over the course of a 30+ game season" - be my guest. But the question was about the Illinois game - and that was not a normal game.

 

[willisneverrana43]

I’d suggest re-reading the original post. Pay close attention to the question marks, all of them, including the last one. You’d have to struggle to miss them. It would be even harder to miss when you yourself announced them to be inconsistent, but I guess you could have missed that too.

Then again, I understand that it’s hard to be consistent. Usually.

 

[RUChoppin]

Holy crap. Now you're just being obtuse.

I casually follow and know were building. We've taken some good teams to the edge and even won some nice games... We've also taken some bad losses.

Opening statement. Casual fan, hasn't really been paying attention, seen we've been up and down.

Wtf happened with ILL? I assumed they were decent when I saw they beat us but they're scrapping the bottom of standings with us and they put up 90?

Crux of question. What happened with this game? Assumed they were decent, but they're at the bottom of the standings and put up 90.

Perfect storm ? Are we the most inconsistent team or what?

Possible answers to his own question.

My response: There elements of that perfect storm. While we have been inconsistent, this game had elements above and beyond mere inconsistency.

What seems to be your response: We're just inconsistent. This loss is in no way due to any factors unique to this game.

 

[RUsince52]

Way too inconsistent. We don't play with the same fire every game.

The one thing we are consistent in is a big negative, not being able to score.

 

[willisneverrana43]

They are inconsistent . . . .

Uh . . .

 

[RUChoppin]

Uh . . .

Not sure what you're struggling with.

They are inconsistent - but the Illinois game had unique elements that went above and beyond that overly simplistic explanation. Ignoring those other factors to just paint with a broad brush of "inconsistent" is willful blindness.

The team's inconsistency is *not* the primary reason why they allowed Illinois to score 91 points and beat us by 31.

 

[willisneverrana43]

You realize that I've said they are anything but inconsistent, right? It's like watching you from a distance stare up at the raindrops figuring out ways to dance through them.

I have a thought. Let's leave this discussion in the, I'll say, awkward place in which it's landed and move on to other important message board discussions. It's not advancing. It's spinning.

 

[RUChoppin]

Sorry - this took a strange turn. It just seemed like you were playing off the Illinois game as just "same old same old" and "part of our usual pattern" - when it wasn't.

I'm fine leaving it here - I usually agree with most of your posts (at least up until the last couple of days). Looking back, I admit getting some semantic wires crossed here (I wrongly equated your use of "bad" with "inconsistent" -"consistently bad" being "consistently inconsistent" - which is not what you were saying).

I still feel we don't agree on the drivers of the outcome of that one game, but do agree that we're spinning at this point.