If Rettig didn't transfer in,how would Chris look after 4 games to you?

[ruready4somefootball]

Normally, RU doesn't have a kid like Rettig on the roster. A national recruit who left a major University to come here. An unknown, could be, major talent.We'd have maybe a JUCO for experience since our current roster has 2 true freshman and a red shirt freshman.There would be a lot less pressure on Chris,and I think most of the fan base would be fine with his learning curve. Within this pro set, except for some brain farts, he's done fair. Like has been stated by some on here already, I'd love to see us run the spread. Terry Shea came close, running the West Coast offense, which to me is the "Ford Model T", to what today's spread offense is. Rutgers doesn't play in Nebraska or Wisconsin. The majority of the regular season, September thru the first week in December is good weather to run that offense. In college, the players just don't have the time or experience to stop that type offense. It negates the DL, and puts way to much pressure on the back seven. Of course what I'm saying is a completely new staff and Head Coach that runs that system would have to be employed. I also feel running the spread at a program NOT a P5 school with success, opens up a huge pool of HC candidates. Once you have the feel for what clicks running the spread, you can run it anywhere. We have witnessed first hand, 1AA schools and MAC type schools coming into HPSS and giving us fits with it. Also across the country and in the old BE, plenty of schools, the good, bad, and ugly, have given good programs a major headache with that system. Put very good talent, P5 talent into that system, and we could become the East Coast version of Oregon.

 

[RU4Real]

If Rettig wasn't on the roster then people would be screaming for Dare to start.

I'm not down on Laviano, yet. He needs a few more starts before we can really figure out what his trajectory is. For now, he reminds me of a slightly better Ryan Hart - good game manager, effective when he's given high-percentage opportunities, not much of an arm but pretty accurate.

We've been worse off.

 

[RedSpartan]

If Rettig wasn't here, people would be hoping there was some way Nova had eligibility left. That, or screaming their heads off for Dare to get a shot.

 

[alex13rufan]

If Rettig wasn't on the roster then people would be screaming for Dare to start.

I'm not down on Laviano, yet. He needs a few more starts before we can really figure out what his trajectory is. For now, he reminds me of a slightly better Ryan Hart - good game manager, effective when he's given high-percentage opportunities, not much of an arm but pretty accurate.

We've been worse off.

If rettig wasnt here I would be ok with continuing to develop Laviano.

 

[RU-Kidding]

If Rettig wasn't here, people would be hoping there was some way Nova had eligibility left. That, or screaming their heads off for Dare to get a shot.

2nd string QB's have been the fan favorite since the dawn of the forward pass.

 

[RUInsanity]

Laviano or no, the offense needs to take more shots down the field to keep the defense honest. So far every team has been stacking the box consistently. I think Laviano has been a good game manager so far and has also shown some decent / good running ability.

With or without Rettig the backup QB is generally a fan favorite on most teams.

 

[Ridge 22]

Based on what little we saw of him last year, plus 4 games so far this year, Laviano looks to me like a nice backup. Honestly not sure he is much more than that for a P5 team. His lack of arm strength is just too limiting on his ceiling.

 

[lighty]

I think most people would appreciate his completion rate, be more forgiving of the turnovers and bad mistakes, but wonder why there are no passing plays longer than 10 yards.

This really isn't even remotely close to the Nova situation imo. Nova could make just about every throw, he just made stupid decisions for most of his first three years and took until his senior year to really understand what was a good decision vs a bad one. Laviano hasn't shown anyone that he can make a 30 yard pass much less a 20 yard pass and people know it'll come back to kill us when we play better teams.

Right now, Laviano at QB sort of reminds me of the Jabu package. There's an 80% chance he'll hand the ball off, a 10% chance of a 3-7 yard pass, and 10% chance he'll scramble.

 

[ruready4somefootball]

Get a staff that knows the spread. We will NEVER be able to line up talent wise, recruiting wise with the teams in the Big Ten East, NEVER. Look through your Scarlet colored glasses all you want,it ain't happening. We need to continue to build a strong defense with a lot of depth,since the spread scores pretty fast and doesn't give your defense a lot of rest. Now if you can recruit high end talent in just a few key positions on offense, and continue to get what we're getting at the rest of the offensive spots, we become a force to be reckoned with. The pro set, requires Top 25 recruiting classes, every year, and don't ever seem to be in the running for that. I'm from the old school when the biggest change in offense was a mobile QB like Roger Staubach, or Terry Bradshaw, and people said that will never work because of injuries. We saw how that turned out. Faster is better, and the spread can help you beat teams that have more overall talent than you.

 

[RU4Real]

Right now, Laviano at QB sort of reminds me of the Jabu package. There's an 80% chance he'll hand the ball off, a 10% chance of a 3-7 yard pass, and 10% chance he'll scramble.

Rushing attempts: 58

Passing attempts 25

Avg. yards per pass: 8

Here's your sign...

 

[mikefla]

Count me in as someone who doesnt understand ,,when the "competition" was so close...why Rettig doesnt get some snaps

That said,,,(I like Laviano but) if Chris keeps sliding ahead first...Rettig my GET some snaps at some point

 

[RedSpartan]

2nd string QB's have been the fan favorite since the dawn of the forward pass.

Except in our case:

(1) Our starting QB has shown he doesn't have the arm strength to stretch the field, which is kind of important in the pro-style offense that we run. And he also has shown poor judgment off the field for someone playing a position that is supposed to be a leader of the team, yet faced no real adverse consequences for his actions.

and

(2) Our backup was more highly rated, has a much stronger arm perfectly suited for the offense we run, and has a higher ceiling. That, and the mods here and others have said he should have been the starter coming out of camp.

Look, I get that maybe Rettig isn't the hero many hope he is. But given Laviano's performance thus far this year, the fact that Rettig isn't even given any playing time at all, even just to get some game experience in mop-up time, is an absolute indictment on the intransigence of Flood.

 

[RUTBAY]

He would still look afraid.

We have the confluence of a young QB, a young o-line, a first year OC, and a stubborn HC. Not all of it is his fault.

This combination allows defenses to only have to play a smaller portion of the field. Against better teams this also means our running game is screwed too.

That being said the OC needs to at least a few times early in the game have a set where we have two WRs go long (preferably the 6'4" and 6'6" ones) and heave it down field. Keep everyone else in to block. Tell the QB his only job is to get it downfield. If he can't pull the trigger then he needs to sit him down.

Early in the PSU and Kansas games we had people open deep that either the QB didn't see or didn't trust he could get to them. We will continue to see the same defense until we do something different.

 

[kupuna133]

My complaints of Laviano has little to do with what Rettig can do it is more that what Laviano can't do. If he is our best option I say go with him and develop him but as we have heard all camp and what I saw in the first game Rettig is just as capable to get a chance to run with the 1's for an extended period. If you cannot see through the first 4 games that Laviano cannot move the ball down the field with his arm and he does not see the field well.l I do not think giving him an extra couple games will help change that opinion. We can always hope for the best but I think his skill set is limited to what we have seen to this point. I would recommend people arrive early one home game and watch the QB's warm up. It is truly eye opening to see how the balls arrive to the receiver.

 

[DanoRU]

If rettig wasnt here I would be ok with continuing to develop Laviano.

Agree with this. According to reports, both were even as opening day approached and Rettig did well in the first game. I'd like to see both getting some snaps until one clearly out plays the other. Laviano looks OK but he sometimes reminds me of Nova.

 

[sharkunit]

Get a staff that knows the spread. We will NEVER be able to line up talent wise, recruiting wise with the teams in the Big Ten East, NEVER. Look through your Scarlet colored glasses all you want,it ain't happening. We need to continue to build a strong defense with a lot of depth,since the spread scores pretty fast and doesn't give your defense a lot of rest. Now if you can recruit high end talent in just a few key positions on offense, and continue to get what we're getting at the rest of the offensive spots, we become a force to be reckoned with. The pro set, requires Top 25 recruiting classes, every year, and don't ever seem to be in the running for that. I'm from the old school when the biggest change in offense was a mobile QB like Roger Staubach, or Terry Bradshaw, and people said that will never work because of injuries. We saw how that turned out. Faster is better, and the spread can help you beat teams that have more overall talent than you.

Amen brother

 

[RU4Real]

Amen brother

So how many seasons are you guys willing to throw away on the retooling required to run a spread offense? The blocking schemes alone come with a pretty considerable learning curve.

 

[MidwestKnights]

Normally, RU doesn't have a kid like Rettig on the roster. A national recruit who left a major University to come here. An unknown, could be, major talent.We'd have maybe a JUCO for experience since our current roster has 2 true freshman and a red shirt freshman.There would be a lot less pressure on Chris,and I think most of the fan base would be fine with his learning curve. Within this pro set, except for some brain farts, he's done fair. Like has been stated by some on here already, I'd love to see us run the spread. Terry Shea came close, running the West Coast offense, which to me is the "Ford Model T", to what today's spread offense is. Rutgers doesn't play in Nebraska or Wisconsin. The majority of the regular season, September thru the first week in December is good weather to run that offense. In college, the players just don't have the time or experience to stop that type offense. It negates the DL, and puts way to much pressure on the back seven. Of course what I'm saying is a completely new staff and Head Coach that runs that system would have to be employed. I also feel running the spread at a program NOT a P5 school with success, opens up a huge pool of HC candidates. Once you have the feel for what clicks running the spread, you can run it anywhere. We have witnessed first hand, 1AA schools and MAC type schools coming into HPSS and giving us fits with it. Also across the country and in the old BE, plenty of schools, the good, bad, and ugly, have given good programs a major headache with that system. Put very good talent, P5 talent into that system, and we could become the East Coast version of Oregon.

Another in a line of solid, somewhat competent QBs at Rutgers with a weakish arm and somewhat questionable fundamentals.

 

[Purple-Ed]

2nd string QB's have been the fan favorite since the dawn of the forward pass.

Kinda agree. I would say 2nd string QB's have been fan favorites since the Big Bang.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

I have no animosity toward Laviano - and will give him credit for having a high passing percentage - but the stated concerns about the lack of a long pass threat are not imaginary - and the various miscues against Kansas really did happen. It may well be a function of the game plan that he is given - but it is pretty clear that Laviano does not strike fear in opponents - his longer passes tend to have all of the laser like striking power of the Goodyear blimp.

Four weeks ago this was said to be very very close - so close that the determination of 'first string' vs 'second string' could not yet be made ... and the decision was going to be based on who provided 'the team the best chance to win'..... on a certain level, all of this makes me begin to wonder about Flood's views on 'winning'

So, what I would really like to know - with genuine specificity - exactly what bad things should be feared if Rettig were to get an opportunity to play? Realistically & bluntly - What are they so concerned that he will do - or not be able to do?

 

[RU4Real]

So, what I would really like to know - with genuine specificity - exactly what bad things should be feared if Rettig were to get an opportunity to play? Realistically & bluntly - What are they so concerned that he will do - or not be able to do?

It's been mentioned that he has trouble remembering the play book.

 

[RUChoppin]

Rushing attempts: 58

Passing attempts 25

Avg. yards per pass: 8

Here's your sign...

So... a 70% chance of handing the ball off?

 

[cRURah]

Normally, RU doesn't have a kid like Rettig on the roster. A national recruit who left a major University to come here. An unknown, could be, major talent.We'd have maybe a JUCO for experience since our current roster has 2 true freshman and a red shirt freshman.There would be a lot less pressure on Chris,and I think most of the fan base would be fine with his learning curve. Within this pro set, except for some brain farts, he's done fair. Like has been stated by some on here already, I'd love to see us run the spread. Terry Shea came close, running the West Coast offense, which to me is the "Ford Model T", to what today's spread offense is. Rutgers doesn't play in Nebraska or Wisconsin. The majority of the regular season, September thru the first week in December is good weather to run that offense. In college, the players just don't have the time or experience to stop that type offense. It negates the DL, and puts way to much pressure on the back seven. Of course what I'm saying is a completely new staff and Head Coach that runs that system would have to be employed. I also feel running the spread at a program NOT a P5 school with success, opens up a huge pool of HC candidates. Once you have the feel for what clicks running the spread, you can run it anywhere. We have witnessed first hand, 1AA schools and MAC type schools coming into HPSS and giving us fits with it. Also across the country and in the old BE, plenty of schools, the good, bad, and ugly, have given good programs a major headache with that system. Put very good talent, P5 talent into that system, and we could become the East Coast version of Oregon.

See bold. That's says it all.

 

[RU4Real]

So... a 70% chance of handing the ball off?

8 of those 58 rushes were Laviano's (for 44 yards - that's 5.5 ypc).

So actually, he handed the ball off 60% of the time yesterday.

This hardly seems surprising or noteworthy given the fact that Rutgers has been a "run first" offense for the last 16 years.

 

[kupuna133]

8 of those 58 rushes were Laviano's (for 44 yards - that's 5.5 ypc).

So actually, he handed the ball off 60% of the time yesterday.

This hardly seems surprising or noteworthy given the fact that Rutgers has been a "run first" offense for the last 16 years.

Of those 8 rushes 6 he had wide open receivers but was afraid to throw or did not see the field..

 

[beaced]

He would look the same.His arm would be the same. His decision making the same.The coaches calls would be the same as Ben would be playing to Chris's strengths not his weaknesses. All in all. THE SAME.Results ,too, the same.Nice try though.

 

[RU4Real]

Of those 8 rushes 6 he had wide open receivers but was afraid to throw or did not see the field..

Sez you.

By the way, what time are you playing today?

 

[cjfrmmd]

2nd string QB's have been the fan favorite since the dawn of the forward pass.

Its funny how you guys are trying to pass it off as your average "everyone wants the back up QB to play" situation. We were told that the QBs are within about the same skill range with one having more of an upside because of the tools he possesses. So everyone wants to see if the second quarterback can come in and go through his progressions better and find the wide open receivers that are down field. Hardly the same situation as everybody is unhappy with the play of the starting QB so let's try someone else scenario.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

It's been mentioned that he has trouble remembering the play book.

Find that one a bit odd /curious -
(1.) four weeks ago, what ever his command of the playbook was, it did not prevent him from being in a virtual tie for first string....
(2.) it is not like Laviano is working with perfect total recall - there were a couple of instances yesterday that suggested that he had some lapses.
(3.) Rettig did a respectable job in the first half of game one - was it a case that he somehow managed to make something out of the wrong plays - or was failing to look to his receivers in the right order? or was Rettig improvising & the saying that he 'could not remember'?

 

[kupuna133]

Sez you.

By the way, what time are you playing today?

Funny you can have an opinion but anyone who differs from you you attack personally. This is now the second time you have come at me in different threads. You must be fun to work with.

 

[RU4Real]

Find that one a bit odd /curious -
(1.) four weeks ago, what ever his command of the playbook was, it did not prevent him from being in a virtual tie for first string....
(2.) it is not like Laviano is working with perfect total recall - there were a couple of instances yesterday that suggested that he had some lapses.
(3.) Rettig did a respectable job in the first half of game one - was it a case that he somehow managed to make something out of the wrong plays - or was failing to look to his receivers in the right order? or was Rettig improvising & the saying that he 'could not remember'?

I haven't attended any practices this year, nor have I sat in on any meetings. I was told this yesterday by somebody connected with the team.

 

[GSGS]

I'd be disappointed that we didn't have a game-ready QB who could throw the ball 20 yards down field.

 

[RUChoppin]

8 of those 58 rushes were Laviano's (for 44 yards - that's 5.5 ypc).

So actually, he handed the ball off 60% of the time yesterday.

This hardly seems surprising or noteworthy given the fact that Rutgers has been a "run first" offense for the last 16 years.

So, took a look at the numbers for all plays - including those that were called back due to penalty.

8 scrambles (one a fumbled snap that he recovered and ran, one sack, 1 was meant to be a handoff but James was on the wrong side)
26 Pass attempts. 5 Incomplete, 2 INTs. Of the remaining 19, 13 resulted in 11 yards or less, including any YAC. Another 4 were from 12-15 yards, including YAC (the largest called back for Offensive PI). There were two completions of longer than 15 yards, but both were 1-2 yard passes with big YAC (Grant's 25 yards up the middle, and James' 19 yards up the sideline).

He didn't have a completion all day where the ball traveled more than 14 yards in the air.

Now, a lot of that is on playcalling - but why aren't we running routes that stretch the defense? Is that on McDaniels, or is it an effort to protect Laviano from having to throw deep with accuracy? I'd be curious to see how many times he completed a ball more than 15 yards in the air vs. how many thrown that distance were intercepted.

 

[RU4Real]

Funny you can have an opinion but anyone who differs from you you attack personally. This is now the second time you have come at me in different threads. You must be fun to work with.

I offered statistics. You offered an opinion as some sort of counter-argument to those statistics. It's not a sound debate strategy.

 

[kupuna133]

You take it as an argument. I was not arguing. Again you must be fun to work with. Everyone who has a different opinion is invalid.

 

[RU4Real]

So, took a look at the numbers for all plays - including those that were called back due to penalty.

9 scrambles (one a fumbled snap that he recovered and ran), 2 for negative yardage (one a sack)
26 Pass attempts. 5 Incomplete, 2 INTs. Of the remaining 19, 13 resulted in 11 yards or less, including any YAC. Another 4 were from 12-15 yards, including YAC (the largest called back for Offensive PI). There were two completions of longer than 15 yards, but both were 1-2 yard passes with big YAC (Grant's 25 yards up the middle, and James' 19 yards up the sideline).

He didn't have a completion all day where the ball traveled more than 14 yards in the air.

Now, a lot of that is on playcalling - but why aren't we running routes that stretch the defense? Is that on McDaniels, or is it an effort to protect Laviano from having to throw deep with accuracy? I'd be curious to see how many times he completed a ball more than 15 yards in the air vs. how many of those were intercepted.

I think it's a number of things. First, I think you're right - they're giving him high-percentage plays. Unless he's the second coming of Tom Brady, his completion percentage would seem to bear that out. But the other issue is definitely protection. I thought it was bizarre that people were complaining during / after the PSU game about not taking any shots down the field when Laviano was sacked 5 times and was running for his life the entire game.

The pass protection yesterday was definitely better. And if you listened to Wilson's post-game, he did say that they had to take more shots downfield. I think we'll see some more of that in upcoming games, but I wouldn't expect to see us going yard on many plays. Laviano doesn't have the arm.

So within the context of the current discussion, I think it's a definite conundrum. It's a quandary. On the one hand, we have a guy who's starting who is by all accounts highly accurate on short passes, but doesn't have the arm to get the ball 30 or 40 yards down the field. On the other hand, we have a guy who has that arm strength, but doesn't have the accuracy and who (by some accounts) seems to have trouble at the LOS.

So what do you do? Me personally, I'm willing to let the guys who actually get paid for this stuff figure it out. The flip side to what somebody said a few posts back is that we're not in a situation with Laviano where everybody is saying "He sucks, get him off the field." He clearly doesn't suck.

 

[RU4Real]

You take it as an argument. I was not arguing. Again you must be fun to work with. Everyone who has a different opinion is invalid.

I have a low tolerance for people who aggressively push tangents. It's nothing against you personally, I just didn't feel like pursuing a tangential argument.

@RUChoppin responded to my post with a well-researched, well thought-out discussion. You'll note that he got a much better response from me.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

2nd string QB's have been the fan favorite since the dawn of the forward pass.

Not if the 1st string QB is doing an outstanding /successful job.

Look at 10-15 decent NFL teams - or leading College teams - the name of the 2nd string QB is barely / rarely known unless the 1st string QB is having a tough time guiding the team and is appearing to be missing opportunites - -

 

[lighty]

"Get a staff that knows the spread. We will NEVER be able to line up talent wise, recruiting wise with the teams in the Big Ten East, NEVER."

Wisconsin doesn't usually have top 10 recruiting classes, yet they've been able to compete with the best in the Big Ten. It's ridiculous to think things can NEVER change. Maybe the spread is the way to go, but coaching and recruiting makes all the difference in the world.

 

[kupuna133]

I have a low tolerance for people who aggressively push tangents. It's nothing against you personally, I just didn't feel like pursuing a tangential argument.

@RUChoppin responded to my post with a well-researched, well thought-out discussion. You'll note that he got a much better response from me.

No Tangents. I would like to see the best player play. If Laviano is indeed the best alternative he will have my full support but due to the body of evidence shown there is definitely room for discussion and that is what this board is for. I think Laviano's skill set is that of game manager vs. game changer. Nothing wrong with that. This team needs more than a game manager at this point.