According to who? While that may, in fact, prove true, that is not what Hobbs is saying.
I'm Not Kidding, Eddie Jordan should be given a 3 year extension now...
- Thread starter Drsupremo
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That sums up why we are losing. Cannot be last in the league in fg defense from the field and from 3 and last or near there in rebounding. However, this year's team is not an Efdie failure , it is an injury failure. He cannot do a lot more with this roster. Coach K couldn't win with this roster but his lack of emphasis on defense must change going forward if the wins and losses are going to change.
Eddie deserves a pass for this year.
Seems to me we are at crossroads here.
RU could blow it up again and start over and then we are on a another 5-6 year rebuild. New coach will be starting from scratch - you cant assume that guys like Sanders, Laurent and Freeman will stick around with new staff.
Stick with Eddie through next 2 years when Freeman, Nigel J, Williams, Foreman will be seniors, Corey, Laurent juniors. Of course getting to NCAA is goal but that roster might not be enough. But Eddie deserves a chance to coach that team. Needs to add in more talent - agreed. At that point it is reasonable to estimate that RU will be in much better position to attract next coach. RU isnt attractive at all right now. NCAA is ideal but not realistic. eddies job is to restore RU brand to the point where it can again be attractive to top players and coaches.
RU could blow it up again and start over and then we are on a another 5-6 year rebuild. New coach will be starting from scratch - you cant assume that guys like Sanders, Laurent and Freeman will stick around with new staff.
Stick with Eddie through next 2 years when Freeman, Nigel J, Williams, Foreman will be seniors, Corey, Laurent juniors. Of course getting to NCAA is goal but that roster might not be enough. But Eddie deserves a chance to coach that team. Needs to add in more talent - agreed. At that point it is reasonable to estimate that RU will be in much better position to attract next coach. RU isnt attractive at all right now. NCAA is ideal but not realistic. eddies job is to restore RU brand to the point where it can again be attractive to top players and coaches.
We have lost to Nebraska - NEBRASKA - by a combined 58 points in 2 games this season. Basketball, mind you, not football and, btw, The Cornhuskers are a whopping 13-11 on the season including those 2 wins.
how do you know...would he start at any of the top 8 in the league? probably not. He would be a backup role player on most teams as would Williams...we need guys who are legit difference makers.
We need a roster full of Big 10 players. You could put a truly great player on RU's team right now and they would not be consistently productive because we are totally one-dimensional. My point is that next year - if EJ can keep the roster together - I think we can put out legitimate Big 10 caliber players. I have no idea whether Johnson has improved with his year sitting out but yes I think he could be a starter on other Big 10 teams. I think Sanders would also. And, if healthy, I think Freeman would as well. I know it is tempting, but we should not be judging guys like Laurent (who I think has a real chance to be an excellent role player) who are playing too much and way too early in their development and usually out of position. Good teams can ease players into situations where they can excel. RU can't, so players look bad. I believe our talent level is improving if we can only get them on the court.
EJ,
Out of the players we have coming back next year and the new guys coming into the program, how many do you feel are legitimate B10 starters(name them)? I just want to see where you stand regarding the talent level on this team. I find the optomistic posters seem to have unrealistic views of our player's skills and talents.
What exactly are we blowing up? We have no depth, a lack of talent, and no real recruiting momentum. We're probably not going to win a conference game this year and may win a couple next year. There's nothing to blow up. We're there already.
and while I like Laurent lets not go overboard
he scored 0 vs MSU, 2 vs Michigan and 3 vs Nebraska. He scored 0 in games vs GW and Monmouth. His first game back against Iowa he was great with 14 but I think somewhat of a surprise for Iowa to defend in the gameplan. He was excellent vs Ilinois scoring 23. Will he be a starter next year? Will he take a backseat to Johnson. Will Foreman start next year or is the writing on the wall he is going to be the odd man out.
he scored 0 vs MSU, 2 vs Michigan and 3 vs Nebraska. He scored 0 in games vs GW and Monmouth. His first game back against Iowa he was great with 14 but I think somewhat of a surprise for Iowa to defend in the gameplan. He was excellent vs Ilinois scoring 23. Will he be a starter next year? Will he take a backseat to Johnson. Will Foreman start next year or is the writing on the wall he is going to be the odd man out.
That is where we disagree. 1)Corey, Nigel and Freeman are 3 legitimate Big 10 starters.
2). We will have depth for the first time in a while with Mike as a junior, who has played not as a Big 10 starter but definitely a Big 10 player , splitting time with Nigel. Whatever Tripp gives is is gravy. Goode I am not sure if he can help this team from what we have seen.
3) we might win a few conference games this year but definitely with our full roster and Corey next year we will win between 6-8 conference games not 2.
4) you risk transfers of our 3 best players, 2 of them freshman and we have seen that movie before and it is not pretty.
In summary , lots to blow up.
Furthermore, you will not be able to bring in a known head coach , who would risk his coaching career here.
- Sanders is a legit B10 starter on nearly any team.
- Freeman... I don't know enough to say. I'd like to think he's a starter on the bottom half of B10 teams, and a contributor on top half teams.
- Laurent... I'd say he has the makings to be a B10 starter as a junior, and would likely see spot minutes as a freshman on most B10 teams and a touch more time as a sophomore.
That's it right now.
It's possible that one or more of Doorson, Diallo, and Foreman blossom into "starter quality" by their senior years - plenty of B10 teams have big guys that are roleplayers as they develop better body control and turn out to be decent starters as juniors or seniors. But they're not there right now.
Johnson/Williams are roleplayers on almost any other B10 team, from what I know about them so far. Based on their other offers, Tripp/Dailey aren't B10 calibre players out of the gate (and maybe not at all). Don't know anything about Thiam. Goode would likely see about as much time as Dadika does on almost any other B10 team.
My answer is that none of us know - honestly, we should hope to get to a point where it is the exception where a freshman comes in and is counted on as a starter. Most programs can slowly integrate players while RU is throwing first year guys into starting roles. Look at Wisconsin and how they deal with their players - many of whom are not terribly highly recruited. Kaminsky, before becoming player of the year, in his first two years played mop-up minutes: 7 mins/1.8 points/1.4 rebounds and 10 mins/4.2 points/1.8 rebounds. To answer your question specifically, I think EJ brought in four legitimate Big 10 players in this year's class: Sanders, Freeman, Laurent and Johnson. I don't think Laurent will necessarily be a starter or a "star" caliber player, but give me a roster full of guys with his ability and his fight and I will win a lot of games. I feel the same way about Mike Williams - he is absolutely capable at playing at this level, just not of being a go-to scorer. I have never seen the three recruits for next year play, but I have heard good things from people I trust about the two guards (no info about Thiam, I am sorry to say). I thought Doorson showed a lot last year. I wasn't terribly impressed with Diallo - but with bigs, you can't tell. DJ Foreman is a talented guy and honestly should have been redshirted, but as an upperclassman, he will be a useful guy.
Choppin, you and I agree a lot. I had a much longer post but my phone blew it up. Screw it. Here's the short version.
Corey and Foreman-solid starters
Laurent, Doorson, Johnson(only based on skills and what I've heard)-solid backups
Williams, Diallo, Foreman-role players
Recruits-maybe 4-5 points a game one but not both, best case scenario
Rest of team-marginal D1 talent
That team screams another sub 10 win season. I think some posters are overestimating the contributions that Johnson, Diallo, and Daily are going to have next year.
If EJ is able to keep the team intact and add a decent recruit/transfer to the three verbals, I think we will be much better than that. Johnson is better than posters are giving credit and he is going to make life much, much easier for Sanders in ways that Daniels just can't. I think a back-court of Johnson and Sanders (with a year under his belt) will be the best RU has had in recent memory. I would like to see EJ add a front-court JUCO as the final piece to this class.
Unless Johnson is at least a 15 point, 38% from 3, and solid perimeter defender, I don't see it. Without seeing him play one game in the Big 10, I can't go there, regardless of how optimistic I would be.
I'm a fan of the Nigel pickup, but he's a career 28-29% shooter from 3-point range.
again..what schools go from 0 conference wins to 8..you are way overdoing it. Just because the team has some offense and can stay close with Illinois doesn't mean much. The team doesn't play defense. Why do you think that we will all of sudden start beating the other schools even though they have more talent. How do you know that Johnson is a Big 10 starter, his numbers do not say it. How do you know that these guys plagued by injuries will be healthy? What about transfers? What about strength and conditioning? I feel you are being blindly optimistic and ignoring not only all the red flags from previous seasons but also all the potential pitfalls that crop up.
With all due respect, I think the above poster, as well as many others that have commented, miss the point that is staring them in their proverbial faces.
Consider these factors -- all of which are true:
1. Our facilities suck. The RAC is ridiculously inadequate and unimpressive to recruits. We have no dedicated practice facility.
2. We have a losing tradition, not a winning one. No NCAA appearance since 1991. We are routinely ridiculed by the national and local media. Unfortunately, our "brand" is "dysfunction" -- from naked free throws to getting balls waled at your head. What is next?
3. Over the years, it seems as if we have served as the junior college for Duke, Virginia, Creighton and Florida. Our best players seems to always leave for "greener" pastures.
3. We currently have only 1 player that any team in Div-1 would want on their team -- Corey Sanders. There are 2 others, Laurent and Freeman who are talented and 1 other, Williams who continues to show flashes.
4. Putting aside the transfer, Johnson, the remaining underclassmen, including the 2 bigs are question marks at best.
5. Our coaches typically last 3 years -- then either implode or get canned. It's a revolving door.
6. The BIG 10 is a better league than the Big East was (particularly the last 5 years of RU's participation). The road games are way more difficult.
Against this backdrop, there are only 2 ways we will ever get better:
1. We need to have the same coach for more than 4 years. It is too big of a reclamation job. There is no savior who can snap his fingers and bring the players in. Not going to happen. There is a 30 year track record that proves it out.
2. If we rally around the coach, and send a signal to the recruiting community that our coach is here for the long haul, he will be able to add at least 3 really good players a year -- athletic players that can shoot. No more brick layers. This last recruiting class shows that he has the right staff in place to do this. I like this Shoes Vetrone -- I bet he's busting his but to find these diamonds in the rough. Continue to go to Florida, North Carolina and the Canary Islands. Bayonne and Jersey City are overrated!
you are putting all your eggs in the basket of this coaching staff that has only shown the ability to bring in about 3 legit players. Do you realize that the current class for next year isn't going to be ranked so highly..do you also realize how difficult it is to recruits off of a 35 game conference losing streak and losing 41 of 47 games. You seem to think this coaching staff is the only one that can recruit. I think another staff can come in and recruit better
I'm all for giving a coach time, but they have to show progress. What progress has there been on the court? In 3 years there has been one bright spot... beating Wisconsin. Sanders is fun to watch, but he's not going to lift this program all by himself. And Eddie's strategy (praying the other team misses open threes while attack the rim) isn't going to work at the college level. Hell, it barely worked for him at the pro level.
You lost me after "Wenzel -- good coach, should have been retained." I guess FIVE STRAIGHT losing seasons was OK back then, including three in the A-10. He had a couple of good years thanks to transfers, and then nothing. NOTHING.
So anything else you had to say just kind of went right by me. But the reason coaches don't get it done is not because they are not here long enough. If they suck, and they stay, they still suck and the program doesn't get any better. Not sure why you think letting the stench go on longer will do any good at all.
So anything else you had to say just kind of went right by me. But the reason coaches don't get it done is not because they are not here long enough. If they suck, and they stay, they still suck and the program doesn't get any better. Not sure why you think letting the stench go on longer will do any good at all.
Wenzel needed to be fired when we were going into the Big East, two years earlier
If u read the other thread I started I said Eddie has to change his entire defensive philosophy,,from pressuring the opponent's point guard, to going over screens instead of under them,defending the three, and properly defending the pick and roll. If he doesn't fix that we will not succeed. However, with rim protectors back next year and recruiting more length , our guards should be able to guard the three better and go over screens and use our length. There should not be a lot of easy baskets next year and our blocks should be way up.
There are no transfers!!!We lose Grier, Daniels and Lewis and replace with Freeman, Johnson and Doorson. That is a huge upgrade. Plus Corey will be setting everybody up and our depth will not have our players gassed .. I am very optimistic offensively and if One of the recruits can either shoot the three, or rebound, or plays great defense is will be a huge bonus.
I know 2 teams that will be a lot worse next year, Maryland and Iowa. Indiana and Michigan State will also lose some big time national first, second or third team players. I do not see next year's Big 10 being as daunting as this year's version .
Finally unlike you I do not see everything in a negative light!!
You're like the basketball version of 2009 rutgersal.
You're expecting EJ to change his entire defensive philosophy in order for us to be successful... and you honestly think that both a) he will actually change his stripes, and b) he'll be successful in his first year with a completely different philosophy. Um, ok.
There are no transfers? That remains to be seen - and for EJ's sake, there really needs to be some transfers from the bottom of the depth chart to free up room for 2017 players.
We have rim protectors back? Doorson and Diallo right now have the body control of freshman year Hamady N'Diaye... which is to say, none to speak of. Through the first eight games of this season, Diallo was averaging one foul for every four minutes on the court. That's insane.. it's 10 fouls for every 40 min. Doorson was better, but was still averaging 5.5 fouls per 40 min last year.
Two teams that will be a lot worse... Maryland and Iowa? Seriously? Maryland's current roster has 7 guys with 4+ stars, and they're adding 2 more next year as freshmen to replace two outgoing senior 4+ star players. Iowa's losing a couple of guys, but have three 3* and a 4* coming next year (and a ton of 3* guys who've been waiting in the wings). Don't see how that's "a lot worse" - certainly not down to the range where I'd expect us to be beating them. MSU has two 5* and two 4* guys coming next year, and Indiana has two 4* and a 3* coming.
Every so often you start to sound like you're becoming more reasonable... then you go all pie in the sky again.
I really doubt that some new coach can come in and provide an immediate recruiting upgrade. Not at Rutgers -- no, f---n way. Why hasn't this occurred in the past? Ask yourself that question as opposed to criticizing what you have and thinking the next guy will do better.
By the way, the 3 guys signed for next year can all play. I particularly like the highlight tape of Maishe. He's 6'7, can dribble and shoot. The same for the skinny guy from Senegal. Add a graduate transfer for some senior leadership, hope that the Lincoln HS guy has recovered from his injury, and we are set for next year.
As for the low ratings of our incoming class, who the ---k cares about recruiting service analysis? We are not in the land of 4* or 5* -- snap out of it! Let's get some mid-major talent first, sprinkle it with some athletic D-1 types like Sanders and Laurent, develop the hell out of these players and -- in very un-Rutgers like fashion -- get lucky with a diamond in the rough choice (like we did many years ago with Bailey and Hinson).
The bottom line is that I trust the current staff's ability to evaluate talent. How they ever got Corey Sanders to come to Rutgers is a minor miracle? I've said this from the moment I watched his highlight tape -- he's the best guard that we have ever recruited out of high scholl to play at Rutgers. The only 3 comparable players (athletically and from a skill perspective) that we have had here in the last 25 years were Battle, Douby and Dahntay Jones.
Sanders will make the NBA. He chose RU because our coach played and coached in the NBA and they get along. This seems obvious, particularly since he seems to be a team oriented guy who is saying all the right things -- despite the losing.
There are many reasons to be underwhelmed by Jordan's performance to date. I get it. But there is no other coach out there that will do any better -- short of Pitino, Coach K or Izzo. Those guys are not available. We cannot continue this spin cycle approach to coaching. Let the clothes soak for awhile -- we are not that far way from fielding a competitive team. If you can't see that, then I can't make you see it.
Indiana has James Blackmon junior coming back next year (2nd leading scorer who is out for this season due to an injury). Sorry to bring factual information to this discussion.
Recruiting? Maybe not. On the court? We've lost 26 consecutive conference games. We lost every game during the OOC against a quality opponent. We lost to St Peter's, FDU and St Francis over the last three years. We were tied at halftime with Rutgers-Newark.
The remaining season ticket holders are tired of performancs like those.
And saying only 3 coaches in the world can get better results is patently false.
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Okay, Ru Choppin, you got it let's go toe to toe!!
1) Eddie has taken the approach that his offense will out score and out execute the other team. He is dead wrong and he sees the losing piling up and he doesn't have the roster to change it until next year. He will have a full roster with depth and length and he either improves the defense or he is gone. He knows it . What a novel concept, someone about to lose their job will change anything and everything to save it. Happens every day. !
2)As far as I know there are no transfers. You know I wasn't talking about Goode. Eddie as bad as things have got has not lost the team and they are still listening to him. That doesn't sound like a team of its relevant players transferring.
3) I guess you only think a center can be a rim protector. Let me make it real clear I was referring to Freeman and Doorson. You and I both know that Diallo will only play a few minutes unless he drastically improves so I was not referring to him but in his few minutes he better be protecting the rim. The easy uncontested layups and put backs will be drastically cut back and further improve the field goal defense!!
4) Maryland's entire starting 5 will be in the NBA or playing overseas next year. If you think 5 new guys are going to come in and gel, your crazy. Turgen is not Cal and Marylnd is not Kentucky..Maybe your memory is short but our team last year, you know the one that lost 15 in a row, took Maryland to the wire on the road just last year.
Indiana loses Yogi, their heart and soul, and maybe Bryant to the NBA and Maybe Troy Williams. Our team, remember this year's depleted team with Laurent playing almost beat them and if not for I counted 10 missed layups we win..I just got a feeling Freeman will not miss as many layups as the rest of our guys !!
Iowa loses either 4 or all 5 of their starters.How did our depleted roster do against Iowa?? Where I see potential, you see pie in the sky!,
Guaranteed all 3 of the teams I mentioned will be worse and some much worse than they are this year !!
Your turn!!!!
He is very good, but also erratic at times. Kinda amazing how much better Indiana has played as a team since he went out!! Wonder how that happened Sideline?
Nice try but you are clueless.. They are moving the ball better and his isolation one on one and launching bad 3's offense has been replaced by better chemistry. Yogi has taken the reins of the team back and is the director. But the real answer is that guess what Indiana who has played very little defense for the last year or so, suddenly decided to defend people...Wow,Crean actually changed his stripes because he heard some rumblings !! What a novel concept RUChoppin!!!LOL,,
lol show me a team that went from 0-18 to 8-10 in league, it doesn't happen..you are living in fantasy land.
you also believe that this team is going to somehow gel and win every swing game..its farcical
you also believe that this team is going to somehow gel and win every swing game..its farcical
You keep on judging this team with its depleted roster !! Let me let you in on a secret , Ru will have 3 new starters next year in Freeman, Nigel, and Doorson , replacing Grier, Daniels, and Lewis. If you cannot see the huge upgrade the you are even more stubborn than I thought. Then Mike and DJ who have been starters at times will be juniors, more experienced , and provide the depth we have been missing. Then we have 3 new recruits with length that hopefully give us a few good minutes per game as freshman. That is 6 new players that are not playing now. The team will not resemble this year's depleted roster. I hope you get it!!
And you keep carving guys faces into Mt. Rushmore before they've shown anything on the court against real competition.
Freeman had 8 blocks in his first 4 games against terrible teams, then none over his next 3 games against marginal teams (8 blocks vs. 14 fouls). Doorson's had 13 blocks in 29 games (13 blocks to 41 fouls). Diallo's had 7 blocks in 10 games (7 blocks vs. 30 fouls). We're not exactly bringing in a block party next year - not sure why you think we are.
You seem to want to anoint Johnson and Diallo for whatever reason. Why? What has either shown so far in their careers that would lead someone to legitimately believe they're going to be difference makers next season? I'm not saying they won't see a jump in performance (or that they *can't* be great), but there's nothing they've shown so far that makes that an expectation short of some reports out of practice. Goode apparently looks great in practice, too.
And transfers? We need transfers - it's not a bad thing. We need to be able to bring in guys for 2017 - whether that's for EJ or the next guy. If Freeman gets a redshirt, we'll have no slots open at all. Goode is the most likely candidate, but I'd also look at one of the four (three?) guys coming in this year.
Lastly, EJ is suddenly going to learn how to coach an aggressive defense after 30 years of coaching simply because his job is on the line? Leopards don't change their spots like that. It'd be like saying "Frank Beamer really has to start scoring 30+ per game if he wants to keep his job" - it's just not going to happen. How many years have people been saying Stringer needs to run a faster-paced, higher-scoring offense?
Jordan's defensive rankings as an NBA coach (only once has his defense been in the upper half of the league, and never in the top third):
2009-10: 76ers ranked 18th of 30 in points allowed
2007-08: Wizards were 12th of 30
2006-07: Wizards were 28th of 30
2005-06: Wizards were 21st of 30
2004-05: Wizards were 23rd of 30
2003-04: Wizards were 22nd of 30
1997-98: Kings were 23rd of 29
***
If we stay healthy, we'll be a better team next year - whether EJ is the coach or not. Is that going to make up 30 points against lower tier Big Ten teams like Nebraska? That remains to be seen.
If Eddie stays he needs to bring in an assistant who can coach defense. Whatever happened to all the people who were so interested in joining the staff?
Sorry I don't see the "huge" upgrade in replaced starters. Your expections for the three new starters are not rooted in anything factual. It's not even anicdotal. It's based in hope mixed with fantasy. Hope is not a plan.
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