I'm Not Kidding, Eddie Jordan should be given a 3 year extension now...
- Thread starter Drsupremo
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I heard the same exact comments last year for this year...and we had THREE players transfer out and a guy who some were touting as a great shooter turn out to be not so good.
Sure the team will be better. I think everyone here admits that. However you just assume that its better it has RU rising signficiantly up in the league standings while history tell us it does not work that way. You dismiss al the other teams in the 9-13 range will be getting better and then somehow say the top teams in the league will now be beatable by a team that has lost 35 in a row in conference. This team will go through a period where they need to learn to win, you totally overlook that. Non conference wise you are looking at 7-6 at worst to 9-4 at best and then anywhere from 3 to 5 Big 10 wins That's puts the range at 10-21 to 14-17 next year
If you do not think Freeman and Doorson will block a lot of shots next year , then we will agree to disagree. You keep on saying I am propping up Diallo. I never said that, I said he will play a few minutes as a backup to Doorson and hopefully we get some defense, rebounding and block shots when he is in there during his limited time. Nigel Johnson, I have been told by people I trust , was the best guard in practice leading up to the year. You are judging him on freshman and sophomore statistics and he will be the equivalent to a redshirt junior. I think he is Big 10 quality, not all Big 10. I think your MountRushmore comment is you going over the top.
My point is we will be competitive , will win more games, and have a good shot at winning 6-8 Big 10 games. I did not say we would contend for the title.
I misinterpreted your transfer inference. I thought you like Bac was saying that our better players would be transferring. I called bullshit because Eddie had not lost the kids. Your suggestion of a post graduate transfer or getting a better player at the expense of the bottom of the roster leaving might be viable. However, for the first time in a while our freshman will still be here next year, and our sophomores will be here as juniors, which is progress and a good thing.
Eddie has to change his stripes on defense. He has to figure out that is why we continue to lose Big 10 games.Tom Crean just did it mid season . He has guys like Colin Hartman, Zitsloff, and the freshman, Obie, playing tough defense and it is contagious asFarrell, Johnson, and Bryant all playing better and harder on defense and their winning streak happened and more importantly their margin of victory increased. So yeah , Eddie will change or he will not be here. Pretty simple
I guess you think Iowa, Maryland, Indiana, and Michigan State will all be better than they are this year. I do not. Difference of opinion. Pie in the sky, no way!!!
Your assessment is not unreasonable. However, at home next year, we will have a good shot at beating Penn State, Northwestern, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Wisconsin, and Nebraska. We will not win them all but have a good shot. If we can steal 1-3 on the road , I see 6-8 wins as very doable.
And you know less about basketball than I thought. If you cannot see the upgrade maybe the team can draw you a map, and you can come back to this board next year at this time and do a mea culpa !!
I admit that I don't know. History has not shown improvement, it's shown the opposite. History has not shown that injured or redshirting players are as good as some fans hope they will be, it's generally shown the opposite. History has not shown that all players stay around, it's shown the opposite.
Explain the "huge" upgrade genius, with actually facts. Not I pulled an opinion out of my butt that isn't base on the history of the players, history of the league, and on court performance. Facts, that's what Choppin has been using to make his arguments. It may be confusing but your opinion is not a fact.
Like death and taxes, we have the annual redshirting player who "sources" say is the best [insert annual mutation] in practice. Here's another. They are always backed up with "this time it's different" and "no, I really know because some infallible source told me" support.
On the other hand, we know what we have playing for us know, and it's produced a record-settingly bad season. We know that two of the three players who are hurt are, at best, projects and, at worst, more of the same. And we know the third looked good in the pre-B1G season. We also know that the rosters of bad teams, no less record-settingly bad teams, are seldom stable from one year to the next.
Now, sure, it's fine to look on the bright side and hope that all of these current bad things and future at-best uncertainties turn out well. Have at it, and more power to you. It's a very different thing to argue that it's silly to think otherwise. Doing otherwise, on the other hand, is just good-old down-to-earth realism.
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well look at 6-26 this will be the worst season in modern history, worse than any Littlepage year. Getting a bunch of players even if some of them don't pan out or transfer will help at least marginally. Assuming we have Sanders we should be able to push a few more wins at least...however I think the Eddie supporters are overestimating things big time
not sure what his agenda is...he arrived on the scene recently and especially vociferous since the mega losing started. I have seen this before with posters tied to certain coaches...Fred Hill..there was this guy Big East Beast who defended Freddie to the bitter end. We saw it with Flood. There are people related or friends
Troll , nice try. Lost your arguments and now going there. Find someone from the Bac, RUChoppin, TK, Ruman crowd that does not believe Freeman, Nigel, and Doorson are a definite upgrade from Grier, Daniels and Lewis!! Go ahead try it.
Have you heard about a low post game which we are totally missing and will get back with Freeman and Doorson, that hopefully opens it up for the shooters. We are missing a lethal 3 point shooter from making some hay. Common man , you don't agree with that either?
While I have no inside info, history tells us that this is a significant assumption. Also, the incoming recruits for next year seem like more of the same. And then we have to hope the redshirt guy is good. That's not a lot of reason for optimism. The only tangible thing seems to be that Freeman will be back, as he has too few years to squander by moving elsewhere. But even with him we haven't seen him consistently in the B1G.
The only real reason I see for "improvement" is that the win total this year is, and will likely be, so mind-bogglingly low that it would be hard not to beat it.
you are spot on. How many years do we have one or more posters say that they have first hand knowledge that this guy is going to be good and a beast this year...and it doesn't happen...haha on this time it will be different part.
IMO you see progess in front of your eyes. It happens. Its not something you have to make excuses for.
Try again Bac. Another one of your posts that are dead wrong! Cannot count how many.
sorry we have small shots at beating teams like Indiana, Iowa, Maryland and Wisky. We have reasonable chances against the others but I might have to put Nebby in the small shots since they beat us by 30 both times. We are not winning every swing game...just because we have a chance you argue we will win them all. Looking at 3-5...realism
You said "huge" upgrade. I've been pretty clear pointing out the word huge. You need it to be a "huge" upgrade, otherwise, the rest of your assumptions about next year fall away as well.
You're going to walk this back like Daily is going to be our CJ Fare. You basically aren't left with any other choice. You could double down on the lunatical pronouncements, but that would probably be worse.
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how many road games has Jordan won at RU....Monmouth, UNC Greensboro, South Florida, is that it...has he only won 3 road games here at RU...is there anymore...yet we will win 3 next year...lol
if everyone is so great coming back like Goru is arguing then Dailey, Thiam, and Tripp will see about 2 minutes a game
I'm thinking 3 conference wins and a 10 or under win team. I just don't see that great of an increas with what we have coming in.
No one said it is a fact. Can you read? I have been giving my opinion , you give yours.Fact, Freeman was one of the better Juco players. In th limited time we saw him , I saw a guy that has low post moves, can offensive and defensive rebound , can catch a pass that Corey will be throwing to him and finish, and was a better passer than I thought. Then he got hurt inVegas during the Clemson game and limped thru the Wake game and was done. Lost our entire inside game and changed our team.
Fact, the people I know that have access to practice tell me Nigel is a player and will make an impact next year. I have not seen him play but I trust the people I talk to because they have forgotten more about basketball than you will ever know.
Fact, Doorson was having great workouts and progressing , maybe in small steps, but like a freshman big guy who becomes a sophomore does..Plus I saw a lot of Potential with Shaquille with a pick and roll, a jump hook, and a push shot. He will be an upgrade over Greg as much as I admire Greg playing hurt and giving his all.
Those are my facts. Hope you get it. But if not time will be the decider not you.
You are right they shouldn't see a lot of minutes but if one of them can shoot the three and one of them can defend they might see a few more minutes. Closer to getting an older roster , bringing the freshman along slowly like most teams. This is a good thing
We saw this in Football, when a poster came out of nowhere to defend Flood and, specifically, Laviano. He doesn't post as much now, but you can see his like are always for posts knocking Ash. My assumption is that this poster knows Lavs is probably 3rd on the depth chart at this point. It must be Ash's fault.
Huge as in a 10 point better difference on offense and at least half better on defense. That is huge!!
Before you misinterpret things again, I will stand by my original statement that Dailey reminds me of CJFair from his film not that he was going to be CJFair . I am starting to wonder if you have a reading comprehension problem.
What is the Oh Boy! Mean? Not factually enough for you. I guess you need to here it from the existing players to believe it. Good luck!!!
Can you read? I guess not since you cannot interpret maybe we can steal 1-3 road wins. . How typical of you. Your MO is so evident.
What does half better on defense mean?
Firstly, ten points extra total from 3 players is not huge. Secondly, I'm not sure if your 3 players will bring 31 points per game. A stiff, castoff, and player who has been injured each of the last two years. 31points average in every game next season? Right. You actually doubled down. I didn't think it was possible.
Doorson wont score as much as Greg. Grier provided a 3 point shot so who is making up for that. Daniels as erratic as he is can still take it to the hoop better than anyone here...who is replacing that. I don't recall Freeman really having a lethal 3 point shot. We all heard how Wally Judge was going to dominate here after coming from Kansas State and he didn't. In fact the only transfer who has made a difference in the last 20 years is Hodgson
if you are adding those points, you have to remove the points from Grier, Lewis, and Daniels...might end up being a wash
Sorry, mistyped Doorson as Diallo - you seem to think Doorson will be this great addition, when he hasn't shown anything so far that makes that expectation warranted. Same with Johnson. Best guard in practice? Assuming that's aside from Sanders, that's a comparison with Williams, Grier, Daniels, and Goode. Even if he's better than all of them, that doesn't mean he's suddenly at the level of a Big Ten starter... since none of them are, either.
We will win more games, no one is doubting that. 6-8 wins in Big Ten play is where you start creeping into fantasy land - especially when you start saying crazy things like Maryland could be in play as a win. The teams we'll have a legitimate shot against (current kenpom lower than 50) next year are Minnesota, PA St, Illinois, Nebraska, Northwestern, and Ohio St. No one else should really be on the radar other than a true "surprise/upset" win that is wholly anomalous to the rest of the season (see: Wisconsin 2015).
Let's break those teams down a bit:
Minnesota - 199 kenpom. Second worst team in the Big Ten right now, and we've got two games coming up against them... the home game being our best shot to escape this season with a conference win. They're losing two seniors, a guard and a forward, who are their 2nd and 4th highest scorers.. but they only field 3 upperclassmen right now. They have a 4* guard, and two 3* forwards coming in as freshmen next season. They had a 4* and four 3* players come in last season, too. They'll likely be better next season moving into Pitino's 4th year. Still, our best shot at a win in 2016-17.
PA St - 137 kenpom. There's only one player graduating who averages more than 4.3 ppg. They have two 4* and two 3* players coming in next year along with a 3* center from 2015 who was delayed in the clearinghouse. They'll also likely be better next year than this year.
Illinois - 131 kenpom. This was our best shot at a win this year... at home, they were as hurt as we were, the playing field was even regarding number of bigs, we had the best performances of Sanders/Laurents' careers... and we still managed to lose. Next year will see two very different teams. It's unknown whether center Thorne will redshirt and be back next year, but it looks like he'd be their only significant lost senior if he doesn't. They will be better next season.
Nebraska - 91 kenpom. This team beat us by 24 twice this season and loses just one significant senior. They have a 4 and 3 star coming next year, after two 4* and two 3* this year. They'll also be better next season.
Northwestern - 87 kenpom. May finally make it the NCAA tourney this year. Lose their 2nd and 3rd highest scoring players to graduation, but have two 4* and a 3* coming in next season to replace them. Their recruiting has ticked up significantly the last few years, and they'll also likely be as good or better.
Ohio State - 80 kenpom. There are no seniors and just one junior on this team. Next season they are adding two centers (a 4 and a 3 star). Only going up after a rebuilding year this year.
Meanwhile, let's look at us:
Rutgers - 288 kenpom. Losing three seniors, but none major contributors. Adding just a single 3* player from the Canary Islands next season, and two players with no stars. Getting a major contributor back from injury in Freeman, and two other bigs (one a 3*, one without stars from the Canary Islands).
So.... of all the teams we're looking to be competitive with, all have better 2016 classes than we do aside from Illinois. Yet not only are we going to be competitive with them, you're expecting us to sweep them. Right.
Oh... and you ignored the "EJ doesn't do the whole defense thing very well" element.
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I believe the 3 average 21 points. His claim is the three new starters are going to add 10 points a game, which is a 31ppg average. Defensively I actually think Lewis and Grier are better players than Johnson and Doorson. In the end, if I were to take my expectations for their O and D, the yes, it's probably a wash.
I though his last second 3 to beat Nova was the shot to exercise our Bball demons. Boy was I wrong. :)
You know that you're staring someone else's opinion as fact. The only facts you've actually listed is the Freeman got hurt and that you spoke to people who saw some of our players at practice.
I'd suggest reading some of Choppin's post so you, in the future, can discern the difference between fact an opinion. I really hope you're not a lawyer or, god forbid, a prosecutor.
You might be the only Rutgers fan that does not think we will get 31 points per game combined from Freeman, Nigel, a s Shaquille. If you do not think 10 points more from the new 3 will make a difference then just give up and go root for someone else .
I have tried to lay it out to you like a 5 year old but your brain cannot envision it.
Stop the crap about doubling down. Go look at Ru Choppin 's opinion of what Freeman, Nigel and Shaquille will likely score next year earlier in this thread and then I hope you are smart enough to be able to count the difference between what he said and 31!!!
Choppin, who said sweep them. I listed 9 teams that at home next year I think we gave a chance to beat . I said I hoped we could steal 1-3 road games. I said I doubt we win all 9 of the home games I listed and maybe a road game win. I said 6-8 Big 10 wins. Who said sweep?
Do you think all those great recruits you cited are going to start for the teams you mentioned or will be brought along slowly with the exception of a true stud and get a few minutes per night as freshman?
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