Leaks??

[derleider]

The other thing that is clear is that not many candidates are going to please everyone. Maybe Herman or Fuente? You wonder how many opinions there are amongst those writing checks. I guess it depends how many significant donors are involved.

The one difference between now and 2013 is - in 2013, there was the legit option of keeping Flood. The year was bad - but it was year two after we had won our first conference co-championship the year before and we still made a bowl (with a high profile opponent to boot).

This year I think they are probably going to fire Flood regardless of what the donors are willing to give for the new coach. Then if you are a donor, do you really hold out money because you didnt get your choice, and therefore ensure that RU gets a worse coach?

We arent getting Herman. Its not that we couldnt afford him in a vacuum. Its that hes highly coveted and there are better jobs out there - even if the money were equal or even if RU paid a little more.

 

[derleider]

Jim Leavitt was fired for cause at USF for hitting a player and he still walked away with millions.

Mike Rice got money. Fred hill got money. Gary Waters got money. All were fired I believe, for cause.

Basically, the for cause is just part of a negotiation to get the payout down from the max amount that you would have to pay otherwise. Flood isnt walking away with nothing - not given the relatively minor nature of his infractions (if the report were turning up anything big it would have been leaked by now, I think).

 

[Wutevah]

Mike Rice and Fred Hill had negotiated buyouts but weren't fired for cause.

They tried it with Hill,

http://www.nj.com/rutgersbasketball/index.ssf/2010/04/fred_hill_accepts_settlement_t.html

 

[MoobyCow]

On Golden, did he ever beat any good teams?

Massey best wins at Miami:
2011: 52
2012: 59
2013: 44
2014: 39
2015: 45

Losses:
2011: 86, 23, 63, 32, 18, 133
2012: 9.5. 55. 14. 86
2013: 1, 40, 35, 24
2014: 29. 34. 10. 7. 53. 66. 32
2015: 57, 23, 3

No thank you. The guy beat no one, ever and had some pretty bad losses almost every year.

 

[Knight Shift]

Wonder if we got Golden early how many of his commits he could get to come to RU?
Recent decommits:
Zack Moss- 3 Star RB
Ahmmon Richards- 4 Star WR
Al Blades Jr.- 4 Star CB

Rest of class:
https://miami.rivals.com/Default.asp

 

[Knight Shift]

On Golden, did he ever beat any good teams?

Massey best wins at Miami:
2011: 52
2012: 59
2013: 44
2014: 39
2015: 45

Losses:
2011: 86, 23, 63, 32, 18, 133
2012: 9.5. 55. 14. 86
2013: 1, 40, 35, 24
2014: 29. 34. 10. 7. 53. 66. 32
2015: 57, 23, 3

No thank you. The guy beat no one, ever and had some pretty bad losses almost every year.

But he is a good recruiter, something we sorely need.

 

[rutgersguy1]

As I said somewhere above I could see the buyout being a tad less but I wouldn't expect to walk away with paying little to nothing.

 

[Wutevah]

But he is a good recruiter, something we sorely need.

Anybody could recruit talent to Miami.

 

[Wutevah]

As I said somewhere above I could see the buyout being a tad less but I wouldn't expect to walk away with paying little to nothing.

Ayup, it's going to be negotiated down (if he's fired ... which I think he will be).

 

[rutgersguy1]

But he is a good recruiter, something we sorely need.

I think he'd recruit fine for us and likely better than Flood but as I've said I view recruiting as tiered pyramid so unless you've really raised the level of recruiting, not just 10 some odd spots, I don't know see a big difference. I'm not big on recruiting as much as coaching acumen anyway. I don't want a Brady Hoke clone and he had money for good coordinators too btw.

 

[MoobyCow]

But he is a good recruiter, something we sorely need.

I'm skeptical that he'll be a good recruiter at RU, that's not exactly the same thing as recruiting at Miami, and his track record stinks, which makes it harder to recruit. It's not that I wouldn't take him over Flood, it;s that I can think of a lot of coaches I think we should be talking with before we get down to Golden. If he's our 4th or 5th coice and we're stuck with him, OK. If he's #1 and I'm a bit annoyed.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Ayup, it's going to be negotiated down (if he's fired ... which I think he will be).

I think so too and view this year different than 2013 for the same reasons derleider mentioned above. Back then I know some were saying he's gone including the mods and I'm sure he was close and a lot of what was heard might have been true but I still said I'll believe it when I see it. This time I don't have those same reservations and think he'll go at the end of the season like I've said would be the most likely time.

 

[Knight Shift]

I'm skeptical that he'll be a good recruiter at RU, that's not exactly the same thing as recruiting at Miami, and his track record stinks, which makes it harder to recruit. It's not that I wouldn't take him over Flood, it;s that I can think of a lot of coaches I think we should be talking with before we get down to Golden. If he's our 4th or 5th coice and we're stuck with him, OK. If he's #1 and I'm a bit annoyed.

Signs seem to be pointing to Golden. RUSilencer seems to know something, despite being a bit testy. Maybe 1984 was right "Silence is Golden." Who would you put ahead of Golden?
My random list:
Justin Fuente
Dino Baber
Bob Diaco
Rod Carey
Aranda from Wisconsin

 

[Wutevah]

If you have Fuente on that list you might as well have Herman. Also can add Campbell from Toledo to that list.

 

[cohwx]

I don't follow other teams enough to have a strong opinion on Golden or most of the other potential coaching candidates, but it sounds like he is a slightly more experienced version of Flood. Maybe a better recruiter, maybe better able to handle the overall running of a program (especially in terms of discipline, academics), but with similar results.

So it may be a lateral move. I do feel, though, that we've come to a point where we need to take a chance as Flood does not have things going in the right direction.

If our options come down to (mainly because of finances) (a) keep Flood, or (b) hire Golden, what do you choose? I would take my chance with Golden.

 

[LevaosLectures]

Maybe we could get Njoku back! :P

 

[rutgersguy1]

Signs seem to be pointing to Golden. RUSilencer seems to know something, despite being a bit testy. Maybe 1984 was right "Silence is Golden." Who would you put ahead of Golden?
My random list:
Justin Fuente
Dino Baber
Bob Diaco
Rod Carey
Aranda from Wisconsin

Fuente (not realistic for us), Babers, Aranda, Meacham (not on your list), probably Carey too. I'd probably take Golden over Diaco or put them on par at worst.

 

[MoobyCow]

Signs seem to be pointing to Golden. RUSilencer seems to know something, despite being a bit testy. Maybe 1984 was right "Silence is Golden." Who would you put ahead of Golden?
My random list:
Justin Fuente
Dino Baber
Bob Diaco
Rod Carey
Aranda from Wisconsin

The first 2 guys on that list are obviously ahead of him, I'd put Schiano ahead of Golden.

Golden's best wins:
Massey best wins at Miami:
2011: 52
2012: 59
2013: 44
2014: 39
2015: 45

Schiano's best wins:
2005: 57
2006: 2
2007: 19
2008: 24
2009: 30
2010: 53
2011: 29

I do believe he is on the list and that Julie likes him, but I'm sure there are other names on the list as well and the donors also need to like him.

 

[rutgersguy1]

If our options come down to (mainly because of finances) (a) keep Flood, or (b) hire Golden, what do you choose? I would take my chance with Golden.

I'd take Golden too but it's a false dichotomy that keeps getting brought up. There are other realistic options out there besides Golden. It's not an either or. There are more than 2 choices.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Golden had those mediocre results while having 18 guys drafted over the prior 4 years.

 

[S.B. Crumb]

Please, enough with the talk of empty suit recruiters who can't coach a damn. His teams were absolutely loaded at Miami and he failed miserably.

No Golden, Fleck, or any car salesman type. GS is the best of those kind of guys anyway. At least he could build a pretty good D.

 

[MikeRU09]

This does not excite me.....No clue why anyone would be happy with Golden....I will be totally baffled if we fire Flood for Golden. We need to take a step beyond Schiano/Flood. This will be more of the same. There are a HELL OF A LOT cheaper and better options than Golden.

 

[cohwx]

I'd take Golden too but it's a false dichotomy that keeps getting brought up. There are other realistic options out there besides Golden. It's not an either or. There are more than 2 choices.

Sure, unless donors aren't willing to pony up for some of the bigger names or take a chance on a coordinator or lower level coach. Plus, we don't know who might actually be interested in coming here to work in this environment.

 

[MADHAT1]

This does not excite me.....No clue why anyone would be happy with Golden....I will be totally baffled if we fire Flood for Golden. We need to take a step beyond Schiano/Flood. This will be more of the same. There are a HELL OF A LOT cheaper and better options than Golden.

Golden looks like an on the cheap hire with that record and someone that in 2 years
would have RU fans ( even those who want him now) wanting him gone.

He might be better than Flood, but that isn't really a great comparison when talking about a quality product.

 

[derleider]

He's not even close to Edsall as a coach.

Weird because the numbers say different.

They were both Big East coaches from 2004 to 2010. Guess what - they both had the same Big East record - 22-26 during that time. This is why I dont get the Schiano love. The guy is just Randy Edsall. Edsall had to build a program too - at a smaller school, with fewer local recruits and a smaller fan base, as an actual D1AA team. Schiano was the better recruiter, but got about the same output.

 

[Knightmoves]

This does not excite me.....No clue why anyone would be happy with Golden....I will be totally baffled if we fire Flood for Golden. We need to take a step beyond Schiano/Flood. This will be more of the same. There are a HELL OF A LOT cheaper and better options than Golden.

Golden's college coaching record (59-59) looks a lot like Schiano's (68-67).
Hoping we can do better than that.

I'll take anyone except Golden or Schiano at this point.

 

[rutgersal]

I would suspect if Golden is hired he would bring along Donofrio. However he probably dumps his OC.

With that said Im not the AD nor Greg Brown so I have no clue as to who is their top target. What I said and what I will stand by is that Golden fits the economic model of RU for the next few years because of his buyout. I would be absolutely floored to see us go $3m for a coach this year or after next. Tom Herman would be a grand slam but he isnt coming cheap.

This makes sense.

Taking Golden is like marriage, you have to be prepared to take his whole family, which in this instance includes D'onofrio too. He wouldn't exactly set my heart aflutter, but he would represent a solid hire and upgrade, and he's someone I could get behind. With our purse, we aren't going to get someone that checks every box, so we have to get someone that checks most boxes. And to be fair, D'onfrio probably deserves almost as much credit as schiano, as he performed the shittiest of shitty jobs as our recruiting coordinator from 2001 to 2003, and performed it well.

Golden is a cultural fit that would be supported by the NJ HS Coaches, and he would successfully recruit our critical areas of NJ, NY, DE, MD, and FL. I'd prefer a hire like this, then going with an outsider who has to establish relations with NJ Coaches. You'd hope that Golden can learn from his prior mistakes made and be better for it.

 

[mikemarc1]

Golden's college coaching record (59-59) looks a lot like Schiano's (68-67).
Hoping we can do better than that.

I'll take anyone except Golden or Schiano at this point.

Golden's coaching record is skewed because:

1. rebuilding Temple. He took over a bad Temple team..
2. blindsided by NCAA investigation his first few years at Miami, which resulted in loss of scholarships in the later years.

I keep saying, Golden is a great fit here. Can't wait for the hire!

 

[derleider]

Golden looks like an on the cheap hire with that record and someone that in 2 years
would have RU fans ( even those who want him now) wanting him gone.

He might be better than Flood, but that isn't really a great comparison when talking about a quality product.

The plus side to Golden is I think he would recruit very well here. He might or might not work out as a coach. But you would be almost certain to have a better lineup when he leaves then when he came int. And he would be relatively cheap, having just been fired. Davis too I think.

Thats not the case for alot of realistic candidates (Herman isnt realistic - too many open jobs for the guy who is probably the top non-P5 HC out there.) The MAC coaches MIGHT do that, or they might not. No one knows. Schiano - probably would- but would be more expensive I think, with similar results to Golden and a built in fan base that would make it hard to deal with him. Strong - who knows (aside from him currently having a job.)

 

[megadrone]

Mike Rice and Fred Hill had negotiated buyouts but weren't fired for cause.

They tried it with Hill,

http://www.nj.com/rutgersbasketball/index.ssf/2010/04/fred_hill_accepts_settlement_t.html

Hard to believe out of that list Waters would be the one fired for cause. He's the only coach to get us to any type of postseason since 1991. Just sayin'.

He was pushed out the door because we thought we had a better option with Jr. waiting in the wings.

 

[miker183]

With regards to recruiting, its, at its simplest, sales. I am not advocating a return of Schiano, but the guy was able to get kids to see his vision of what he saw for this program. Whoever we bring in needs to be able to do this; regardless of who it is.

NJ creates a great number of quality prospects, but they also need to be developed; this might be (IMO) Flood's greatest failing. We don't seem to get better; problems early in the season remain with only two games left. Accountability is huge for correcting mistakes, but unfortunately our depth (or lack of) makes it difficult to clean up.

Bring me a guy with great passion, the desire for success even when it requires that you rely on assistants, and a solid knowledge of the game, and I'm in. It's likely a taller order than it sounds, but it is imperative that the HC is confident enough that he doesn't fear an OC or DC outstaging him. Team success over the success of the HC; all ships rise in a rising tide.

 

[MikeRU09]

The plus side to Golden is I think he would recruit very well here. He might or might not work out as a coach. But you would be almost certain to have a better lineup when he leaves then when he came int. And he would be relatively cheap, having just been fired. Davis too I think.

Thats not the case for alot of realistic candidates (Herman isnt realistic - too many open jobs for the guy who is probably the top non-P5 HC out there.) The MAC coaches MIGHT do that, or they might not. No one knows. Schiano - probably would- but would be more expensive I think, with similar results to Golden and a built in fan base that would make it hard to deal with him. Strong - who knows (aside from him currently having a job.)

I would be VERY HAPPY with Babers. To me, he is the perfect "kind of under the radar" guy right now. People know he is doing great things, but a lot of other names are ahead of him right now. With Urban here, we have to score points to win. Our "blue collar/ground and pound" is not going to get it done here unless we find a really good coach/recruiter for the pro-style offense. I do not see that happening with our budget.

 

[RU85inFla]

Its all about who can do more with the recruits they get. Greg did that for a year or so but it didn't last and he was not able to adjust defensively to keep it going. Golden it seems never did this. These two are the wrong guys. Get anyone in here that can bring an interesting scheme, that puts kids in a position to win, and the recruits will come. There is enough talent around NJ to do so. I believe its more about the x's and o's than how deep the next guy's ties are to NJ. We are beyond that point now that we are in the B1G.

 

[trotter]

If you can't coach, recruits will stop coming. Forget Golden!

 

[Best7Years]

Golden reportedly made 2.5M this year. He seems like he would be at the top of the pay scale for us, no? I'd rather use that money to try and lure Campbell, Babers, or Carey. Is the thinking that Golden will take well below market value b/c he's being compensated by his buyout from UM?

 

[PaKnight]

Golden reportedly made 2.5M this year. He seems like he would be at the top of the pay scale for us, no? I'd rather use that money to try and lure Campbell, Babar, or Carey. Is the thinking that Golden will take well below market value b/c he's being compensated by his buyout from UM?

His current market value has nothing to do with what Miami was paying him. It is what other schools would pay him now.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Golden reportedly made 2.5M this year. He seems like he would be at the top of the pay scale for us, no? I'd rather use that money to try and lure Campbell, Babar, or Carey. Is the thinking that Golden will take well below market value b/c he's being compensated by his buyout from UM?

Yea Babar would be great, we could pay him peanuts and he'd love it. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

 

[Knight Shift]

I would be VERY HAPPY with Babers. To me, he is the perfect "kind of under the radar" guy right now. People know he is doing great things, but a lot of other names are ahead of him right now. With Urban here, we have to score points to win. Our "blue collar/ground and pound" is not going to get it done here unless we find a really good coach/recruiter for the pro-style offense. I do not see that happening with our budget.

In the last 2 years,
Kyle Flood is 4-11 against B1G teams.
Dino Babers is 3-1 against B1G teams (to be fair, wins against Maryland, Purdue and Indiana).
Against Wisconsin, Dino Babers' team put up 17 points last year in a single game.
In 2 games against Wisconsin, Kyle Flood's teams put up 10 points.

I'll take Dino Babers.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Golden's coaching record is skewed because:

1. rebuilding Temple. He took over a bad Temple team..
2. blindsided by NCAA investigation his first few years at Miami, which resulted in loss of scholarships in the later years.

I keep saying, Golden is a great fit here. Can't wait for the hire!

Good points. I'm not loving Golden but he is a better option than people give him credit for.

 

[lighty]

Well, that stint in the NFL certainly didnt disprove the notion that he is overrated by this board.

And yet, he did better than the guy who followed him. Go figure...