Montez - between Clemson and St Johns
- Thread starter BigEastPhil
- Start date
It’s all about the recruiting and right now it’s not happening at the level it needs to be. Finding under the radar kids and coaching them up is less likely to sustain success now that players are transferring at the drop of a hat, ( e,g., Eugene and Johnson). Devoting three years to getting a kid better only to have them bail when they are their peak is disastrous. It’s a different world now.
Love Montez but don’t totally agree with either of you guys. They are different players. Montez is great o. D and can fill the bucket. Geo and Paul create for others and also play solid D.
Also might have to worry about other porgrams wanting to lure away guys like Jaden Jones. If the losses start piling up - why would he want to stay out here and play with guys who might not even belong in the B10 conference. Pike is playing a dangerous game
Maybe on his next team he will pass the ball off the dribble to a wide open teammate.
They also bailed on their coach pretty quickly and they had to start anew.
He got a raw deal . You better hope Pikiell gets some positive news in Harper and Baker and if they will return to RU. The draft is July 29th and though I don’t expect either players to be drafted there is NO guarantee they will play at Rutgers afterwards . Don’t believe everything is pointing them back here.There are many other teams and options to both.
I am not worried. We'll live without Montez and I wish him well. He wasn't going to carry us if Geo and/or RHJ went to the NBA or otherwise left. Speaking of which, when did RHJ or Geo enter their name in the transfer portal? Otherwise, where are you getting this stuff about "don't believe everything is pointing them back here"?
Rutgers will be fine
Mathis will fit in at St Johns
Mathis will fit in at St Johns
There is no indication that anything you have posted here is close to correct on Baker and Harper. Neither player announced intentions of a transfer and are going through the approved process of getting a free evaluation by the NBA.
There are no options for either player other than leaving school, unless they entered their names in the portal, which hasn't happened. Therefore, there is nothing to see here other than incorrect or inaccurate speculation.
And if you prefer to go the route of bad information, that is OK. But posting Mathis got a raw deal is insanity.....the kid started from practically Day 1 and Game 1 as a true freshman and didn't improve enough in the aspects needed to continue to be a starter. If he did, he would have earned his minutes like starters do. He was beaten out by a better player in Jacob Young, who did more of the same things Mathis did, just at a higher level. If we are going to make this an "either - or", the team actually started a string of games in a row with both Mathis and Young starting together and the team did not play as well when they did once they broke up that starting lineup.
If your argument is Mathis should have started over Jacob Young, then there's really nothing to discuss other than insanity at every level. The team needed a more balanced backcourt with Jacob on the court as your scoring guard, while Geo is your better combo/point guard. Mathis played enough minutes in every game to earn more minutes, if he played better.
I will again emphasize, Jaden Jones or a potential added guard, whether a JUCO or portal, has a better option to fit and fix the holes left by Jacob and Mathis. Ideally, you get another good athletic guard who will be a good shooter in Jones and find an ideal combo guard to replace Mathis. Mathis just wasn't a complete enough guard or a true combo guard, not his fault, just much harder to play a lot of minutes unless he's scoring.
The most common lineup with Mathis on the floor was: Young, Baker, Mathis, Harper, Johnson. Those were the top 4 scorers on the team other than Mathis.... against major conference teams, that lineup averaged 1.80 points per minute, and gave up 2.02 points per minute.
Looking only at the last 10 games, though, that lineup regressed... only scored 1.46 points per minute and gave up 2.01.
It wasn't just the players around him - he just started to struggle once 2021 hit.
To some extent I thought Montez got a raw deal. There is a player that Pike trusted over Montez and I know that didnt sit well with Montez. I think the staff had to know that their decisions would potentially have consequences and I'll bet they are fine with them. Montez didn't come here to be the 8th or 9th guy in the rotation. He also didn't play like a top 5 guy on most nights.
You realize they have not said they actually gave intentions of returning . No one said they entered the transfer portal. They put Pikiell in a pickle😜. So your claim is BS. I don’t believe everything points to them returning . They may go a much different route than back to Rutgers. Where is your proof that it’s guaranteed?
Suggesting Mathis got a raw deal is insane. Pike gave him decent run basically every game even though he was a major liability.
Um, they are still enrolled at the school, didn't enter the transfer portal, and haven't hired agents. I may be missing something, but that tells me that barring some unforeseen change of heart, or a 1st Round draft grade, the presumption is that they will be returning. There is no guarantee fairy, especially with 20-somethings, but only someone living in a cave wouldn't understand that.
You are the one speculating, not me.
Here are his stats: 3pt -- .297 2pt -- .426 FT -- .574
22 assists, 30 turnovers. We report, you decide. He was
lucky to play as much as he did.
Prior to the season finale against Houston, he was 1 for his last 24 from 3. Yikes.
All these guys meet with and talk to coaches and players before committing or transferring. You hardly ever hear them talk with professors or teaching assistants before they decide on a school. Kinda crazy right since the supposed whole point of it is school .
The question remains will we bring in someone better. It is possible we won’t and if for some reason Baker and Harper don’t return we ‘ll be in deep do do.
For starters Paul had better FG% (.479 to .383), better FT% (.675 to .574), better 3 pt FG% (.393 to .297), and better assist/turn over ratio (1.77 to 0.73). As you let those numbers sink in, keep in mind how utterly deflating it would be to have MM on your team and watch him drive incessantly to the basket against two or three taller players, get easily blocked, or attempt some of the most out of control or awkward attempts at shooting the basketball I have seen at this level. It was frustrating to watch as a fan and usually predictable what would happen if he had the ball in his hand coming up the court. Never mind the missed, wide open layups and he even had a missed airball layup. PM made the players around him better, MM did not. I would venture to say MM made the players around him worse. My only frustration with Paul (versus MM) was his turnovers, but as you see above his assist to turn over ratio was much better than MM's. In a nutshell, that is how Paul was better than Mathis.
Can we stop with revisionist history. Stop being emotional. Are we really going to pretend that Montez was this great offensive weapon except he was "forced" to force shots? Are we really going to forget that he shot the ball every time he touched it or often times drove to the lane with no awareness of what the hell was going on? Are we really going to pretend that pikiell, a defense first coach, didn't want to play Mathis who was our 2nd best premier defender? Come on.
1. He was forced to take bad shots because the people on the floor with him couldn't score? Below are the five most frequent lineups with Mathis in. Geo, Ron, and Jacob didnt score?
Geo, Mathis, Paul, Caleb, Myles
Jacob, Geo, Ron, Mathis, Myles
Jacob, Mathis, Ron, Caleb, Cliff
Geo, Mathis, Caleb, Ron Cliff
Jacob, Geo, Mathis, Ron, Cliff
2. Paul was better than Montez a bunch. Not only that he was trustworthy. Paul didn't shoot the ball every time he touched it. Paul played within himself. in fact didn't shoot enough. All you do is have to look at kenpom to see this. Montez has a high %poss, %shots and low TO rate aka he shoots all the time. Paul has a low %poss, high eFG%, high TOrate. good shooter doesn't shoot enough.....
I defended mathis and said take good with bad but this revisionist history that he was some great player is crazy. The best thing for Montez would be to stay at rutgers, work on his outside shot, shot selection and play under control. This would make him a better overall player and help him at the next level if he wants it. Next year he was setup for 30-35 minutes a game. St. johns will just exacerbate his flaws. Yes maybe more PT. Maybe more his style. Maybe more points, But i do not think his style translates to Europe where his only future in basketball lies.
1. He was forced to take bad shots because the people on the floor with him couldn't score? Below are the five most frequent lineups with Mathis in. Geo, Ron, and Jacob didnt score?
Geo, Mathis, Paul, Caleb, Myles
Jacob, Geo, Ron, Mathis, Myles
Jacob, Mathis, Ron, Caleb, Cliff
Geo, Mathis, Caleb, Ron Cliff
Jacob, Geo, Mathis, Ron, Cliff
2. Paul was better than Montez a bunch. Not only that he was trustworthy. Paul didn't shoot the ball every time he touched it. Paul played within himself. in fact didn't shoot enough. All you do is have to look at kenpom to see this. Montez has a high %poss, %shots and low TO rate aka he shoots all the time. Paul has a low %poss, high eFG%, high TOrate. good shooter doesn't shoot enough.....
I defended mathis and said take good with bad but this revisionist history that he was some great player is crazy. The best thing for Montez would be to stay at rutgers, work on his outside shot, shot selection and play under control. This would make him a better overall player and help him at the next level if he wants it. Next year he was setup for 30-35 minutes a game. St. johns will just exacerbate his flaws. Yes maybe more PT. Maybe more his style. Maybe more points, But i do not think his style translates to Europe where his only future in basketball lies.
Pancho....Yes I do think he was forced to take forced shots due to the weak offense around him. Assuming your list is accurate, and you’re not making that up...a few of those units (1 is the worst, and 4 in the list) are hurting for offense
Could it be the major of the bad shots came when those were in the game ?
My recollection while watching was looking at who else was in the game when he took a bad shot and then feeling like there weren’t often better options.....either that or the shot clock was running out
Could it be the major of the bad shots came when those were in the game ?
My recollection while watching was looking at who else was in the game when he took a bad shot and then feeling like there weren’t often better options.....either that or the shot clock was running out
I’d like to see him go to SJU. We can watch him dunk on Seton Hall next season. 😀
Agree with everything you’ve said here. You didn’t mention, however, that Mathis was clearly a better, but over-rated, defender. Regardless, no real comparison. Mulcahy usually made the team better when he was out there and Mathis usually made the team worse.
Agree with you on 1 and 2 but I don’t think it would be better for him to stay here. He’s had every opportunity to adjust his game and chose not to or was incapable of doing it. He can do much better in an open floor game that St. John’s plays.
If you believe that Cliff and Jaden will never become the players they can I guess you could be right.
If we can't manage to bring in someone who can improve on
those stats (which are dreadful, to be kind), then the whole
staff needs to be in a different line of work
Those line ups are off IIRC after the benching in Big Ten play; he was primarily with Young Cliff Paul and/or McConnell.
He was scoring option 2 anytime he was out with Young Paul McConnell Cliff and when it was Geo instead of Young then no one could penetrate but him.
This isn’t a post absolving blame.
He was scoring option 2 anytime he was out with Young Paul McConnell Cliff and when it was Geo instead of Young then no one could penetrate but him.
This isn’t a post absolving blame.
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Montez' defense also suffered down the stretch, especially with regard to defending without fouling. For the season, he was 4.5 pf/40 min... but after he started coming off the bench, that jumped to 5.9 pf/40 min, which was worst in the rotation. His 2P% dropped to .392 (lowest in the rotation) and his 3P% dropped to .172 (amazingly only 2nd lowest, ahead of McConnell) over those 15 games.
On offense, he was terribly inefficient, and on defense he was fouling. That's a bad combo when you're trying to stay on the court.
