This is at minimum a two or three month old issue, and I'm sure there were issues dating back to last season. Don't act like anybody is trying to pull a fast one on anybody.
Nick Suriano Status
- Thread starter wngarbarini
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This is at minimum a two or three month old issue, and I'm sure there were issues dating back to last season. Don't act like anybody is trying to pull a fast one on anybody.
Our 125 pounder transferred out in May when he got wind of this situation. I don't care when any official request was delivered. He wasn't caught off guard by this situation at all.
How was Cael supposed to make a scholarship offer to someone else, when he didn't know if Suriano was leaving or not? For that matter what if there was another 125-pounder that would have wanted to transfer in, but didn't know Suriano's intentions?
David Taylor had not matriculated to ISU, was not transferring in conference and sat out a red-shirt year. But, otherwise, great analogy !
What's funny is you guys all think this special committee sits in a room, locks the door, cracks open the rule book and says well there it is in black and white no waiver for anybody and everybody. We clearly know this isn't the case.
They'll hear RU's side, Suriano's side and believe it or not psu's side. Then and only then will they come to a determination. Now if psu gives it's endorsement for the waiver that will give some credence to approve it. But it's far from a slam dunk. If it was so black and white like many of you state, then there wouldn't be an appeals process if the outcome is undesirable.
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Yep.. you're right....when it comes to this, I think it's all pretty much black and white. There's not going to be much deviating. Like any other business or entity, they don't want to open themselves up to lawsuits from those who are being affected by the rule now or those that have been affected by it in the past.
I really thought the black and white was on your side, where everyone claims, based on a "source" of an RU sports writer, that if Cael gives his blessing, then it's a rubber stamp from the B1G. But, now, "it's far from a slam dunk." So, which is it? BTW, has Politi or Dunleavy reached the B1G to ask if it really is a slam dunk?
The majority of this board believes that if Cael blesses the waiver, then the B1G will rubber stamp it. Are you in disagreement with that? Maybe you should explain that to them.
You're quite sensitive. Why? I agreed with you and gave you exactly what you were looking for. You feel I'm an idiot for thinking this is all pretty much cut and dry. I bowed down and admitted to you that I do indeed feel it's cut and dry and told you why. If you don't think the Big10 has attorneys telling them why they need to render a decision in line with pretty much all the other ones they've made in the past then I don't know what I can tell you.
Btw, The B10 isn't the only one with lawyers. You can bet your ass that Penn State has consulted with a few themselves. You say Cael and PSU can make this easy on Nick but you do understand that what they do now can come back to bite them in the ass if they've treated some other transfer differently...in the past or in the future.
Segovia's in Little Ferry
Edit: I actually meant the one in Moonachie. Both are great.
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Well, you were a bit late, but that's one of my normal haunts. Tonight I went to Segovia Steakhouse in Little Ferry. I love both.
I'm from Hasbrouck Heights. Took my wife there on our first date. My boys had my bachelor party there. Lots of good memories there.
I work in Wood-Ridge. Some good restaurants down in those parts.
What do you folks think about Bangkok Garden in Hackensack for Thai? It opened back around 1990 or so and it's my favorite of any Thai place I've been to in North NJ.
Steve's Steaks in Carlstadt is my personal favorite.
I used to hit up the Bada Bing for Thursdays Thai night.
Don't recall eating much tho...
Ohhhhh, now I know what you guys are talking about.
I don't know that Penn State can or cannot endorse the waiver but they certainly can't grant or deny the waiver. Their statement seems to indicate they are taking no position but allowing the Big Ten to follow its procedures. It also seems to indicate their input isn't required by the Big Ten. I infer that if, indeed, their input is not required by the Big Ten, that the Big Ten may or may not consider Penn State's position regarding the waiver in Suriano's case. I don't believe that is an unfair reading. Honestly, I can't find any details on the procedure.
There are many compelling reasons why many student athletes that have gone away to college have needed to return home to finish college. The NCAA urges NCAA institutions to be sensitive to the needs of the student athletes that have a special need to return home.
Nick Suriano may be asking for a One-Time Transfer Exception, which is the most commonly used exception for transfers from one four-year college to another, especially if the transfer involves two colleges in NCAA DI or DII.
The One-Time Transfer Exception typically requires the support of the institution that the student athlete is leaving. That is why Cael Sanderson should help his former wrestler.
Regarding your statement that Nick Suriano would give Rutgers Wrestling a competitive advantage over Penn State Wrestling, that is false.
Here is the scoring of PSU & RU in recent NCAA's.
In 2015, Penn State finished 1st with 123.0 points.
In 2015, Rutgers finished 15th with 30.0 points.
In 2016, Penn State finished 1st with 146.5 points.
In 2016, Rutgers finished 19th with 24.5 points.
Do you really think that Nick Suriano will enable Rutgers to get a competitive advantage over Penn State ?
Remember that Nick Suriano's points are gone from Penn State regardless of where he transfers to, so all you can do is calculate how many points Rutgers would add if he wrestles there.
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You might be right. Can you tie the NCAA One Time Transfer Exception to the B1G transfer rule?
All NCAA D1 Athletic programs are impacted by NCAA transfer restrictions. B1G transfer restrictions are additional. B1G transfer restrictions require a B1G waiver to be waived, which requires approval from the B1G school that is losing a student athlete.
You've finally caught up. Congrats. All that's left is the dispute as to how much weight PSU's input would carry with the Big Ten committee making the decision. We obviously think its a lot. Its even been suggested that its necessary. You will argue, on the other hand, that it carries little to no weight at all. I am not sure what you will base that on, but I don't really care either way.
Everyone is guessing. Thus, unless more information comes out, its really pointless to keep debating this.
Have we answered the various little details yet? Like, does the restriction affect Suriano if he transfers to Rutgers and leaves the B1G in the future? Why exactly does Suriano want to transfer?
Nobody should be surprised that this worked the way it did so far. I mean, whether you want to admit it or not, there are rules that need following. That being said, the whole reason for all of this discussion is to see if there's a legal back door around the rules. From the discussion here, there could be. Which is why a guy like matter is just being annoying at point, repeating the same crap over and over again that people already know and have known from the start of this process. In a sport like wrestling, that doesn't get the financial support for the athletes like football or basketball with full scholarships, I can see why more kids might want to transfer. And with there being fewer D1 teams than the NCAA Basketball tournament, you can see why transferring can be a tough situation.
Nobody should be surprised that this worked the way it did so far. I mean, whether you want to admit it or not, there are rules that need following. That being said, the whole reason for all of this discussion is to see if there's a legal back door around the rules. From the discussion here, there could be. Which is why a guy like matter is just being annoying at point, repeating the same crap over and over again that people already know and have known from the start of this process. In a sport like wrestling, that doesn't get the financial support for the athletes like football or basketball with full scholarships, I can see why more kids might want to transfer. And with there being fewer D1 teams than the NCAA Basketball tournament, you can see why transferring can be a tough situation.
Seriously, the idea that the Big Ten has a conference wide rule that just needs the coach to sign a waiver to nullify it makes no sense. If the rule could be waived by signing a waiver, why have the rule? It should just state "s-a with waiver will lose no eligibility, s-a without waiver will lose a year." Pretending Cael can over-ride the BIG rule is asinine- there is policies and procedures in place for a reason.
Ryan Dunleavy and Steve Politi said it:
"Either way, it will be the biggest national college wrestling news of the offseason -- and it is likely the Big Ten would have had to do little more than put a rubber stamp on the waiver with Penn State's approval."
And, some on here jumped right on board.
Huh?
The post I quoted said Cael could unilaterally waive the rule. That is a straw man. No one is arguing that. Not even Dunleavy and Politi.
Dunleavy and Politi said it would be rubber stamped. Thus, they are in the camp that Cael's approval would go a long way with the Big Ten committee. You guys are of the opinion Cael's approval would be given little weight or not considered at all. No one knows huw much weight it would be given. All we know is Cael has said he will not give it, and the Big Ten can make its decision without his input.
Its really simple.
Depends how much weight Cael's approval has with the Big Ten committee. If they wont grant the waiver without his approval, then yes, he is effectively blocking it. If its one of many factors considered, or if it is not considered at all, then I agree with you -- it would be unfair to say he was blocking it.
Again. Really simple.
Unfortunately, no one knows how much weight the former coach's input carries with the Big Ten. I will point out, however, that the ONLY people who say Cael's approval carries no weight (or won't be considered) are PSU message board posters. The people who are indicating it carries a very large amount of weight with the Big Ten committee include insiders at our program, and various reporters. That ought to give you pause.
You totally are missing my point. I don't mean it in the sense that he not tough wrestler. He know doubt bust his butt in the wrestling room. I mean in the sense that people think he is special and the rules that shouldn't apply to him. Other wrestlers have transferred and lost a year. Why is he special and shouldn't.
It doesn't "give me pause." I think they look at the circumstances, not the coach's opinion. I can't think of many coaches who would willingly help a kid transfer to a competition- not hindering is different than helping. The moment NS requested a transfer, and it was granted, Cael's responsibility was toward his team and the University. I am sure he didn't expect Illinois to plead with the Big Ten for Cortez, and he isn't going to for Nick.
It has been suggested by Bill, and I would surmise from that, a source close to the wrestling staff. Who suggested that PSU's input would carry a lot of weight - as in very good chance and this was the only thing that preventing it. Please look at the original post complaining about it. I have about zero confidence that this represents the unvarnished truth about the process.
You are exactly right that everyone is guessing. Being that there is exactly ONE relevant example of an post matriculation UNDERGRAD transfer being granted a waiver (Micic - who was leaving a coaching cluster situation no matter what the verdict of the appeal) since it was instituted in place of the financial penalty four or five years ago, it seems far from a "rubber stamp" process.
What I mostly see here is S.O.P in terms of transfers in the wrestling world at ALL colleges. Circumstances vary from time to time, but this would be the expected result by me if it were (picking out two random schools) Indiana and Illinois or NC State and Virginia involved. I mean, crap, it was just reported that Brands gave releases to two BENCH wrestlers to everywhere except the in-state (ISU, UNI) schools, but you don't see anyone taking up Brock Rathbun or Logan Ryan's cause - he is sitting out this year. But parties on both sides will have their take on it.
I sense that a lot of people on this thread and other threads here (and commenting on this elsewhere) don't follow college wrestling all that closely, and also probably don't like PSU. And some PSU posters who just keep repeatedly bashing their heads against the wall.
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I don't think that NS trying to get a waiver makes him special. Any athlete would do the same. Applying for the waiver does not mean he gets it.
This is similar to a situation where an employee is bound by a covenant not to compete. He then leaves the company. His choice might be to do nothing and be out of work or take an action to try to loosen the restrictions in the covenant so he can make a living. Not an exact parallel but you get the point.
You have one PSU poster here who wants him to do nothing because he signed some kind of blood oath when he took the scholarship money. I say he's just trying to protect his rights.
I don't blame him for trying. It is more directed towards the people who thing Cael is found something wrong by not "supporting his waiver".
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