OFFICIAL NCAA TOURNEY DISCUSSION THREAD

[goru7]

Wichita State last in? Again the play in game winner goes on a roll! So much for the weak bubble and/or too many teams! Shocking! ;-)

This committee as well as past committees have no clue. The mis seeding of the teams is the only thing worse than the committee changing its criteria every year. Wichita State on their league easily and lost a war in the semifinals to Northern Iowa and go from a realistic 7 or 8 seed to a 11 seed. Van fleet was injure for some of their early losses and this is not your typical teams withou great shooters especially from 3, but there is not another team in the country that plays as hard as Coach Marshall gets them to play. The first 10 minutes of the Arizona game , the Wichita State players dove on the floor for loose balls 10 times. It was obvious they would win that game easily.
Another mis seeding nightmare, Indiana and Kentucky, who played like where they should have been seeded as 2 or 3's, not as 5 and 4's , play tomorrow. Both teams could have made the Final Four in any other region. To make matters worse the winner likely gets UNC , a favorite along with Kansas and Michigan State, but in a Sweet Sixteen game not a regional final. The committee has to consist of former coaches not a bunch of Ads who actually know the small details of teams . When the Vegas point spreads have your 11 seeds favored over your lower seeds, 6 or 7 seeds, you know the Committee as usual has it all wrong.

 

[goru7]

Wichita State last in? Again the play in game winner goes on a roll! So much for the weak bubble and/or too many teams! Shocking! ;-)

This committee as well as past committees have no clue. The mis seeding of the teams is the only thing worse than the committee changing its criteria every year. Wichita State won their league easily and lost a war in the semifinals to Northern Iowa and go from a realistic 7 or 8 seed to a 11 seed. Van fleet was injured for some of their early losses and this is not your typical Wichita team with great shooters especially from 3, but there is not another team in the country that plays as hard as Coach Marshall gets them to play. The first 10 minutes of the Arizona game , the Wichita State players dove on the floor for loose balls 10 times. It was obvious they would win that game easily.
Another mis seeding nightmare, Indiana and Kentucky, who played like where they should have been seeded as 2 or 3's, not as 5 and 4's , play tomorrow. Both teams could have made the Final Four in any other region. To make matters worse the winner likely gets UNC , a favorite along with Kansas and Michigan State, but in a Sweet Sixteen game not a regional final. The committee has to consist of former coaches not a bunch of Ads who actually know the small details of teams . When the Vegas point spreads have your 11 seeds favored over your lower seeds, 6 or 7 seeds, you know the Committee as usual has it all wrong.

 

[bac2therac]

the Pac 12 seeds were all overseeded. Its a mediocre conference

Oregon should be a 2 not 1
Utah are a 3 and ok with that but could be a 4 too
Im okay with Cal being a 4 but could also be a 5.
Arizona is more like a 7 than 6
Oregon State should be a 9 even 10...obviously they went strictly by rpi making them a 7
USC/Colorado were in 8-9 games okay with that but both probably closer to 9s

1-3 not a good start

 

[StevieB160]

Pac 12 appears overrated just like I thought...Oregon State should be next to go. We shall see with Cal vs Hawaii

Its not about "overrated" - The Pac12 performed well out of conference this year. Far, far better than Big 10 or SEC and if you are evaluating conferences, that is what has to be considered. Remember none of the Pac12 teams were favored in Vegas yesterday. Even Arizona and Colorado as higher seeds were underdogs. People know the Pac12 teams arent as good as their seed but they had to get respect because the conference did very well in November, December.

 

[StevieB160]

This committee as well as past committees have no clue. The mis seeding of the teams is the only thing worse than the committee changing its criteria every year. Wichita State on their league easily and lost a war in the semifinals to Northern Iowa and go from a realistic 7 or 8 seed to a 11 seed. Van fleet was injure for some of their early losses and this is not your typical teams withou great shooters especially from 3, but there is not another team in the country that plays as hard as Coach Marshall gets them to play. The first 10 minutes of the Arizona game , the Wichita State players dove on the floor for loose balls 10 times. It was obvious they would win that game easily.
Another mis seeding nightmare, Indiana and Kentucky, who played like where they should have been seeded as 2 or 3's, not as 5 and 4's , play tomorrow. Both teams could have made the Final Four in any other region. To make matters worse the winner likely gets UNC , a favorite along with Kansas and Michigan State, but in a Sweet Sixteen game not a regional final. The committee has to consist of former coaches not a bunch of Ads who actually know the small details of teams . When the Vegas point spreads have your 11 seeds favored over your lower seeds, 6 or 7 seeds, you know the Committee as usual has it all wrong.

The link between seeding and Vegas point spreads is foolish. Two totally different things. This happens every single year. The selection committee is there to assess team resumes. Vegas is projecting who will win. Obviously there is a correlation between the two but they are never going to be exact. Wichita State had no business being better than an 11 seed. WIth their regular season performance, they are lucky to get in the tournament They had only one win against an at-large quality NCAA team. Wichita was never a 7 seed. The wins were not there.

I agree there was some mis-seeding (mainly Kentucky, Syracuse), but to say that 11 seeds can't be favored over 6 seeds is just totally not understanding what the committee is there to do and what Vegas does. Is the committee supposed to look at talented teams without great resumes, and say "well, we know you are good, we we are putting you at a 2 seed despite your 10 losses". Two years ago Tennessee as an 11 seed was a big favorite (like 5 or 6 points) over a 6 seeded Iowa. Tennessee was extremely talented but had simply did not have the resume.

 

[srru86]

Slate
Yale vs. Duke Is the Most Annoying Matchup in NCAA Tournament History

 

[RUHotTrumpetMonkeyLove]

And we're off on Day 2. Let's go Dayton!

 

[bac2therac]

Its not about "overrated" - The Pac12 performed well out of conference this year. Far, far better than Big 10 or SEC and if you are evaluating conferences, that is what has to be considered. Remember none of the Pac12 teams were favored in Vegas yesterday. Even Arizona and Colorado as higher seeds were underdogs. People know the Pac12 teams arent as good as their seed but they had to get respect because the conference did very well in November, December.

the committee bought lock stock and barrell into the rpi...most of the wins of the Pac 12 schools are against each other. When ASU and UCLA who are bad teams are hovering near 100 you know the rpi numbers are inflated. Oregon State is your perfect example. The Pac 12 did deserve 7 bids, I wouldnt question but making Oregon a one is laughable and that region there is pretty weak..how could Michigan State not be put in that region not to mention how is MSU a 2 at the expense of Oregon.

 

[StevieB160]

the committee bought lock stock and barrell into the rpi...most of the wins of the Pac 12 schools are against each other. When ASU and UCLA who are bad teams are hovering near 100 you know the rpi numbers are inflated. Oregon State is your perfect example. The Pac 12 did deserve 7 bids, I wouldnt question but making Oregon a one is laughable and that region there is pretty weak..how could Michigan State not be put in that region not to mention how is MSU a 2 at the expense of Oregon.

Well, every conference will have most of its wins against each other, but the out of conference performance is what will determine how those wins are valued. And yes, it does have a domino effect. Once the Pac-12 did well out of conference, then play each other for 18 games, each team's SOS is going to be raised. As a comparison, several Big 10 teams had poor OOC performances including teams that would have success in the conference to varying degrees (Indiana, Wisconsin, Ohio State). Those poor OOC performances cannot be reversed once conference play starts. Looking at the teams, I doubt many people would pick the Pac12 over Big 10 if you had 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3, etc....but the results are the results from November and December.

 

[bac2therac]

who did Cal beat OOC? St Marys

who did Oregon State beat? I see Tulsa...

USC beat Wichita State and Yale

Arizona beat Gonzaga and thats it

Colorado best was just BYU

Oregons wins were Baylor and Valp

Utah beat Temple, Duke, San Diego State and Texas Tech so this is the only one loaded up on the quality wins

note these schools were also losing in OOC games too, this list isnt all that impressive.. most but not all were bubble schools. What pushed their rpi up was strong schedule strength but the truth is that they lost most of these games.


so a closer look shows the non conference wins are not really all that impressive...some nice wins moreso from Oregon and Utah but nothing to write home about from the rest

 

[StevieB160]

who did Cal beat OOC? St Marys

who did Oregon State beat? I see Tulsa...

USC beat Wichita State and Yale

Arizona beat Gonzaga and thats it

Colorado best was just BYU

Oregons wins were Baylor and Valp

Utah beat Temple, Duke, San Diego State and Texas Tech so this is the only one loaded up on the quality wins

note these schools were also losing in OOC games too, this list isnt all that impressive.. most but not all were bubble schools. What pushed their rpi up was strong schedule strength but the truth is that they lost most of these games.


so a closer look shows the non conference wins are not really all that impressive...some nice wins moreso from Oregon and Utah but nothing to write home about from the rest

If we are assessing overall conference strength you also have to consider league wins vs Texas, Gonzaga, Kentucky, and Texas A&M from the 5 teams that did not make the NCAA tourney (UCLA, Stanford, Wash, ASU, WSU). Those wins bump up the resumes of the lesser teams which will end up helping both the NCAA qualifying and non NCAA qualifying teams in computer rankings.

So in total a OOC win resume for conference of Tulsa, Wichita, Yale, Monmouth, Gonzaga, BYU, Baylor, Valpo, Temple, Duke, SDSU, Texas Tech, Texas, Gonzaga again, Kentucky, Texas A&M and then a ton of other OK wins vs teams like Boise, Creighton, Fresno, etc..... For a 12-team league, I think that is pretty good although I haven't compiled this type of list for other conferences. Would other leagues have better? I don't know. Also didn't have too many bad losses for the most part that jump out at me.

With all of this said, the Pac12 failures could be the story of the tournament in 1.5 hours if this keeps up...and that would be fair.

 

[bac2therac]

Oregon State going down as ridiculous mistake as a 7 seed

and Cal in major trouble as a 4 seed

if these results hold, I think its probably the worst showing by a major conference in a first round ever...5 of 7 falling assuming Oregon wins

 

[bac2therac]

Syracuse pretty much proved all the doubters wrong

 

[bac2therac]

Michigan State was down 15-2 early on Middle Tennessee State and has been trying to claw their way back in ever since. Not too concerned quite yet, remember we saw an abysmal RU go toe to toe with the Spartans at the RAC for a half. Obviously MTSU is better and the longer they stay in , the longer the chance for an upset. You know MSU will be loaded for bear in the 2nd half.

Iowa looked pretty good up 10 over Temple

the Cal and Hawaii game is a good one and smells like upset

 

[RUHotTrumpetMonkeyLove]

Beavers get Rammed!

Another Pac12 loss.

 

[G- RUnit]

Cuse and Wichita.... Weak bubble teams that should not be in! Amazing!

 

[Crimedog2]

Let's hope mid Tennessee state can continue to make this interesting

 

[rutgersguy1]

Missed the early games but this MTSU MSU game looks like it's gonna come down to the wire. I'd lose a final 4 team but like I said who cares I love upsets!

 

[Crimedog2]

Well mid tenn kept it interesting

 

[rutgersguy1]

Down 7 and 1 with 40 secs left. I think that's all she wrote for MSU. It's going to take some really bad FT shooting by MTSU for MSU to have a chance to come back.

 

[RUHotTrumpetMonkeyLove]

Down 7 and 1 with 40 secs left. I think that's all she wrote for MSU. It's going to take some really bad FT shooting by MTSU for MSU to have a chance to come back.

Well the are one of the worst FT shooting teams in the country. Around 61% I think they just showed.

 

[rufeelinit]

Sparties are going down!

 

[rutgersguy1]

Well the are one of the worst FT shooting teams in the country. Around 61% I think they just showed.

Are they really, I didn't see that but just made a couple and got block and possession now so surely now up 9 with 18 secs.

Well unlike USC last night against Providence, looks like MTSU came through when they needed with regards to FTs late.

 

[G- RUnit]

B1G over rated! Makes our year even worse.

 

[bac2therac]

What a horrific job by Izzo today...Michigan St may be the biggest ddisappointment in tourney history

 

[ScarletDave]

I was the only one in the whole scarlet nation group to pick MTSU!! TIME TO MAKE A COMBACK !! ;)

.. The only reasons I picked them: (1) MTSU has the best 3-point shooter in the nation, at 50% from 3, and the 3-pointer is the way the game is going these days
(2) MSU was only beating RU by 2 at halftime, so how good could they really be? ;)

 

[RutgersJoe]

What a horrific job by Izzo today...Michigan St may be the biggest ddisappointment in tourney history

Was just gonna say, maybe biggest upset in tourney history. Duke and Georgetown have had a few clunkers in the past too.

 

[bac2therac]

I think Middle Tennessee State got snubbed for at large bid last year so credit to them for using that as motivation

 

[rutgersguy1]

Oh man Iowa fouled a 3 pt shooter up 3 with 2 secs left. He's made 2 and now the icing TO before the 3rd FT.

Tie game. .8 secs left.

 

[StevieB160]

Cuse and Wichita.... Weak bubble teams that should not be in! Amazing!

What is your point? Neither team should have been in based on their season performance. How they perform in the NCAA tournament is irrelevant to whether they should have been in. They can both go to the final four and it won't change whether or not they should have been in the tournament.

 

[StevieB160]

C-USA two years in a row.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Every time Lundquist says "Utah" 2 things keep running through my mind:

1) why is he calling Iowa "Utah" and

2) Johnny

 

[rutgersguy1]

Whew Iowa with the put back buzzer beater.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Wisconsin and Pitt are in the middle of an awful game. Setting records for futility (Wiscy lowest point total in the 1st half of an NCAA game...ever, if I heard correctly).

 

[Crimedog2]

Wisconsin and Pitt are in the middle of an awful game. Setting records for futility (Wiscy lowest point total in the 1st half of an NCAA game...ever, if I heard correctly).

I think that's just for this years tournament .
I remember a final four clunker between Wisconsin and Michigan state in 2000 that had less first half points .

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I think that's just for this years tournament .
I remember a final four clunker between Wisconsin and Michigan state in 2001 that had less first half points .

I thought they said it was 19, previously, but again I could have misheard I'm still exhausted from going out yesterday afternoon, then to MSG for wrestling last night, then back out in Hoboken until closing time. Ugh.

 

[shields]

Wisconsin has been bad.

 

[Crimedog2]

I thought they said it was 19, previously, but again I could have misheard I'm still exhausted from going out yesterday afternoon, then to MSG for wrestling last night, then back out in Hoboken until closing time. Ugh.

Maybe I misheard too . But it's certainly an ugly game , but an NCAA tournament game nonetheless.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Oh sure, Northern Iowa/Texas and Cincy/St. Joe's were interesting and all, but they can't compare to the nail-biting thrills of a nil/nil La Liga game.

 

[bac2therac]

What an insane night of games...most compellng opening rounds i have ever seen..back to back buzzer games...insane half court shots...insane controversy