OT: Bobby Knight Dead at 83 after long illness...
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A different perspective.
nypost.com
From the article a quote from Mike Woodson:
“He was adamant about going to class. He was adamant that we lived with class. He used to tell us when we’d play a program that he knew was cheating, ‘They may drive better cars than you do, but you’re better men than they are.’
Bobby Knight’s complexity went beyond the basketball court
Even 20 years ago, already 10 years past his coaching prime, Bob Knight — who died Wednesday at 83 — was good copy.
nypost.com
From the article a quote from Mike Woodson:
“He was adamant about going to class. He was adamant that we lived with class. He used to tell us when we’d play a program that he knew was cheating, ‘They may drive better cars than you do, but you’re better men than they are.’
Can you photoshop Coach Knight tossing RutgersAl across the floor?
I'd pump the breaks a bit on that one. Also, John Wooden says hello.
But Juwan Howard punching an opposing coach is tolerated. . . . 🤔
Maybe I don't have the full story on Knight. I'm aware that he could be a hot head and his chair throwing. It was a different time, and such antics were more tolerated. I still don't see why he was "polarizing." Maybe in today's culture, but for his time as a coach? 🤷♂️A different perspective.
Bobby Knight’s complexity went beyond the basketball court
Even 20 years ago, already 10 years past his coaching prime, Bob Knight — who died Wednesday at 83 — was good copy.
From the article a quote from Mike Woodson:
“He was adamant about going to class. He was adamant that we lived with class. He used to tell us when we’d play a program that he knew was cheating, ‘They may drive better cars than you do, but you’re better men than they are.’
What's important to me (I know it's silly) but the guy never cheated. Can that be said about the other coaches people have listed here?
Technically he only slapped him, LOL. All kidding aside, Knight had a history of actions against players, fans, refs and generally cringey stuff by today's standards.
@scottdennis73
3 years agoHis explanation of what happened was the best! He said he saw a little old lady who didn't have a seat and was standing so he tossed her a chair
Dale Brown: “Bobby Knight cheats. It’s cheating when you win by intimidating referees. It’s cheating when you recruit guys by telling them they’ll be on the Olympic or Pan Am teams. It’s cheating when you lock up jobs for your cronies. And worst of all, it’s cheating when you dehumanize these children and take away their fun of playing ball for four years.”
If you acknowledge that recruiting has always been a huge part of coaching college basketball then Knight couldn't appear at the top of any list of the best.
definitely not polarizing by any stretch of the imagination. He had critics but universally all agreed he was an outstanding coach who has the allegiance of every player he ever coached. He as tough, demanding, no nonsense, and didn't care who he offended. Loved him, his players loved him, fans loved him, all respected his abilities to get the most out of his kids.
Ironic that the kid he threw the chair at that ultimately did him in was his own kid. Kid should have listened as far as I'm concerned.
Ironic that the kid he threw the chair at that ultimately did him in was his own kid. Kid should have listened as far as I'm concerned.
Dale Brown was a pussy who was full of shit. You ever hear the players, even the ones he cut, talk about him? Man they loved him!
His kids did play Pan Am etc, he got jobs for people so what.
dehumanize kids my a$$, hell even Hill would say no one is molley coddling anyone
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Every kid who went to Indiana knew what they were walking into when the went there. Nobody forced them to go and no one forced them to stay. I can't be 100% sure but I don't remember all that many players leaving the program once they were in it.
Brown and Knight really disliked each other. Knight's quote after an Elite Eight game between IU and LSU in 1987.
“I was worried about losing until I looked down the floor and saw (LSU head coach) Dale Brown. Then I knew we had a chance.”
Five years later Brown has Shaq and IU has no one over 6'9" and Indiana wins again. LSU has never beaten Indiana in basketball in it's history.
Maybe this has something to do with it? Can't beat him on the floor so take some shots in the media.
That's my point. He did more with less. Outside of Thomas how many of Knights players are in the HOF. I believe the answer is zero. Outside of Thomas how many IU players have been NBA All Stars. Off the top of my head I can't think of any. All these other programs have had lots of players fall into those categories.
It's easy to coach and win when you have the best players. After Thomas who was the best player Knight coached at IU. Benson, May, Woodson, Cheaney?
But he still won including 3 NCs
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did more with less is an understatement. He routinely took lower rated teams and beat teams with celebrated recruits. He coached up, way up
Coming from Dale Brown's mouth, one of the biggest courtside crybabies ever, that's pretty funny.
He was incredibly polarizing to the game and not every player he coached has his allegiance. He knew basketball as well as anybody in the game, but his emotional outbursts tarnish his reputation.
There were a lot of abusive coaches in the 60s and 70s.
I think part of the reason was so many men being in the military.
Some guys could dump and vent on players under them under the cover of discipline and "what's good for them."
Remember Captain Herbert Sobel (David Schwimmer) in "Band of Brothers" and Lieutenant Commander "Captain" Morton (James Cagney) in "Mr Roberts"?
There were real people like that in miserable circumstances.
Knight was in the Army and was head coach at USMA from 65-71.
Back then hazing at West Point was not only allowed but was considered part of training.
Everybody could dump on everyone under them in a chain of ranks/classes.
I can imagine a volitile Knight coaching at Army and getting away with stuff.
Lombardi was another tyrant who- as he was dying of cancer - had remorse for the way he treated players.
There were others like Bear Bryant (Navy in WWII) and his "Junction Boys" abuse.
Woody Hayes was another volcano and he was Navy in WWII (commanded a PT Boat)
Of course there were good guys like Tom Landry who co-piloted a B-17 for 30 missions as a 20 yr old. I don't blame the military specifically - just that it allowed some people to take liberties and get bad habits
I had mostly good coaches in HS but it was a time you were not allowed to drink water during Augst two-a-days. That sort of thing was the "torture as good for you " vibe.
Coaches were very poor on teaching techniques but great at whistles/sprints, Oklahoma drills, "hit-its" and such. We had an assistant coach that would smack guys helmets and wrench their cages and he was a Nam paratrooper.
Speaking of hit-its (you jog and hit the ground on command) - I was made to do 100 of them at 2AM as a 16 year old at a summer football camp. Nobody could get away with that today
www.latimes.com
I think part of the reason was so many men being in the military.
Some guys could dump and vent on players under them under the cover of discipline and "what's good for them."
Remember Captain Herbert Sobel (David Schwimmer) in "Band of Brothers" and Lieutenant Commander "Captain" Morton (James Cagney) in "Mr Roberts"?
There were real people like that in miserable circumstances.
Knight was in the Army and was head coach at USMA from 65-71.
Back then hazing at West Point was not only allowed but was considered part of training.
Everybody could dump on everyone under them in a chain of ranks/classes.
I can imagine a volitile Knight coaching at Army and getting away with stuff.
Lombardi was another tyrant who- as he was dying of cancer - had remorse for the way he treated players.
There were others like Bear Bryant (Navy in WWII) and his "Junction Boys" abuse.
Woody Hayes was another volcano and he was Navy in WWII (commanded a PT Boat)
Of course there were good guys like Tom Landry who co-piloted a B-17 for 30 missions as a 20 yr old. I don't blame the military specifically - just that it allowed some people to take liberties and get bad habits
I had mostly good coaches in HS but it was a time you were not allowed to drink water during Augst two-a-days. That sort of thing was the "torture as good for you " vibe.
Coaches were very poor on teaching techniques but great at whistles/sprints, Oklahoma drills, "hit-its" and such. We had an assistant coach that would smack guys helmets and wrench their cages and he was a Nam paratrooper.
Speaking of hit-its (you jog and hit the ground on command) - I was made to do 100 of them at 2AM as a 16 year old at a summer football camp. Nobody could get away with that today
Dangerous football drills that you'd never see now
Bull in the ring, Oklahoma and others have gone out of style for safety concerns. 'It’s a wonder we’re still alive,' says current high school coach.
www.usatoday.com
West Point Orders About-Face on 108-Year Tradition of Hazing Cadets
The new class of cadets at the U.S.
www.latimes.com
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Funny the way the media will pick heroes and villains in sports. To the media, Knight was a villain and that's the way they chose to depict him. Obviously quotes like this didn't help him.
All of us learn to write in the second grade. Most of us go on to greater things.
Here's an example. Knight grabs a kid's jersey for about two second during a timeout.
The next day there were articles about how he assaulted the kid, he should be kicked out of coaching, etc. Compare and contrast with Lou Holtz. Holtz was always depicted as the feisty little guy coaching The Fightin' Irish. One game he grabs a player by the face mask and yanks it around. I’ll never forget what the announcer said: “Coach Holtz wants to make sure he has his players attention.” Not a peep from the media because they liked him.
Knight had his faults but he was nowhere near as bad as people depicted. If had a great basketball playing son and he wanted to play for Knight I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to let him go
All of us learn to write in the second grade. Most of us go on to greater things.
Here's an example. Knight grabs a kid's jersey for about two second during a timeout.
The next day there were articles about how he assaulted the kid, he should be kicked out of coaching, etc. Compare and contrast with Lou Holtz. Holtz was always depicted as the feisty little guy coaching The Fightin' Irish. One game he grabs a player by the face mask and yanks it around. I’ll never forget what the announcer said: “Coach Holtz wants to make sure he has his players attention.” Not a peep from the media because they liked him.
Knight had his faults but he was nowhere near as bad as people depicted. If had a great basketball playing son and he wanted to play for Knight I wouldn’t hesitate for a second to let him go
No human who has walked or currently walked this earth is perfect. Jay Bilas sums it up quite well. Let the man RIP.
"Around 20 years ago, I decided I would no longer try to explain or justify the friendship, because I couldn't. Most people could not or would not be convinced by my view of him -- so I quit trying. It wasn't that I overlooked the negatives or rationalized any of his questionable behavior or decisions. I felt the good outweighed the bad, and I felt I knew the real Bob Knight."
"Knight's acts of kindness were rarely publicized, and if I had publicized those I knew of while he was alive, he would not have liked it. Knight played for the legendary Fred Taylor at Ohio State, and near the end of Taylor's life, Knight would sneak into Taylor's hospital room to hold his hand. When a legendary basketball talent evaluator was having financial difficulty late in life, Knight paid his outstanding bills and rent, without telling a soul."
Jay Bilas: I liked the Bob Knight I knew
Bob Knight, who has died at age 83, had his many faults, but he also had admirable traits, including friendship.
In my experience, I have worked with several similar types of people- those who have highly analytical minds that have a rare ability to see and decipher aspects of certain endeavors that others cannot. Sometimes these types of people are prone to outbursts and lose their patience easily, and sometimes they are extremely kind and compassionate. I would not necessarily call these episodes "mood swings," but some may call it that. As Jay Bilas said, Bobby Knight was complicated. As I have explained to my children many times, sometimes it is best to find the good in a person rather than focus on their bad traits, unless you find nothing good in them, which is rare.
spot on!
his rape comment was absolutely over the top but I think he also said things to poke knowing the media was how they were. Odd I know but......
It's deceiving because you'd think it would take a front loader to do but even the biggest of these can be moved with a simple tool:Now do this chair!
Great article. Thanks for posting.No human who has walked or currently walked this earth is perfect. Jay Bilas sums it up quite well. Let the man RIP.
"Around 20 years ago, I decided I would no longer try to explain or justify the friendship, because I couldn't. Most people could not or would not be convinced by my view of him -- so I quit trying. It wasn't that I overlooked the negatives or rationalized any of his questionable behavior or decisions. I felt the good outweighed the bad, and I felt I knew the real Bob Knight."
"Knight's acts of kindness were rarely publicized, and if I had publicized those I knew of while he was alive, he would not have liked it. Knight played for the legendary Fred Taylor at Ohio State, and near the end of Taylor's life, Knight would sneak into Taylor's hospital room to hold his hand. When a legendary basketball talent evaluator was having financial difficulty late in life, Knight paid his outstanding bills and rent, without telling a soul."
Jay Bilas: I liked the Bob Knight I knew
Bob Knight, who has died at age 83, had his many faults, but he also had admirable traits, including friendship.www.espn.com
In my experience, I have worked with several similar types of people- those who have highly analytical minds that have a rare ability to see and decipher aspects of certain endeavors that others cannot. Sometimes these types of people are prone to outbursts and lose their patience easily, and sometimes they are extremely kind and compassionate. I would not necessarily call these episodes "mood swings," but some may call it that. As Jay Bilas said, Bobby Knight was complicated. As I have explained to my children many times, sometimes it is best to find the good in a person rather than focus on their bad traits, unless you find nothing good in them, which is rare.
I have told this story on here before...long
My best friend was an assistant coach at Georgia. The Final Four is also the NCAA basketball coaches conference, so every year he would go and I went a few times with him.
We get on a elevator and next floor down the door opens and Coach Knight gets on. BTW he is a very large man. My friend says hello and we go down a few more floors. Door opens and Billy Tubbs gets on . My friend all of a sudden puts his arm in front of me and puts me in the corner of the elevator. I looked at him like "what the heck". my friend is 6'8". Within 30 seconds BK pops Tubbs and they go at it on the elevator . Door opens in the lobby and they roll out and all I remember is the door trying to close and hitting one of their legs and opening up again. The crowd in the lobby breaks it up and I was like "what the heck just happened"
From what I was told , Tubbs ran it up on IU and they had words after the game and it percolated. Can you imagine in this day with everyone having cell phones with videos what a story this would be.
My best friend was an assistant coach at Georgia. The Final Four is also the NCAA basketball coaches conference, so every year he would go and I went a few times with him.
We get on a elevator and next floor down the door opens and Coach Knight gets on. BTW he is a very large man. My friend says hello and we go down a few more floors. Door opens and Billy Tubbs gets on . My friend all of a sudden puts his arm in front of me and puts me in the corner of the elevator. I looked at him like "what the heck". my friend is 6'8". Within 30 seconds BK pops Tubbs and they go at it on the elevator . Door opens in the lobby and they roll out and all I remember is the door trying to close and hitting one of their legs and opening up again. The crowd in the lobby breaks it up and I was like "what the heck just happened"
From what I was told , Tubbs ran it up on IU and they had words after the game and it percolated. Can you imagine in this day with everyone having cell phones with videos what a story this would be.
A great coach who sometimes acted like an asshole
Just because he made up with some critics, he was a polarizing figure
and maybe not all is forgiven
Waiting for someone to bring him up. True.
But if this article is accurate it had little or nothing to do with Knight. Bird spent a grand total of 24 days on campus so the question comes up did he even go to one practice before leaving.
Bird's time with the Bob Knight-led Indiana Hoosiers lasted only a month. In 1974, Bird decided to drop out -- despite a full scholarship -- and return to his hometown of French Lick, where he briefly joined Northwood Institute.
In Winning Time, Bird explains that he dropped out because he missed home and didn't fit in with the city folk in Indianapolis. This is an accurate portrayal of Bird's real-life experience.
The real story behind key Larry Bird moments in HBO's ‘Winning Time'
Did Larry Bird really drop 40 points on Indiana State players in jeans? We separate fact from fiction in the latest episode of HBO’s “Winning Time.”
www.nbcsportsboston.com
Yes, he was very much of his time. As the world changed, there was no longer a place at the table for a man like him. I guess the question to ask is "would you want your son to play for him?" For me, the answer is yes.
I dunno, maybe I'd send my kids to him as a drill sergeant or physical trainer. But as the coach of their team sport not so much.
I get the tough love part builds character and men. I may be in the minority here, but if I personally found out my sons' coach was not so subtly calling them pu$$ies by leaving tampons in their personal lockers, I'd question his character, no matter what era we're talking about.
I never knew that about the how the Celtics were able to secure his draft rights.Waiting for someone to bring him up. True.
But if this article is accurate it had little or nothing to do with Knight. Bird spent a grand total of 24 days on campus so the question comes up did he even go to one practice before leaving.
Bird's time with the Bob Knight-led Indiana Hoosiers lasted only a month. In 1974, Bird decided to drop out -- despite a full scholarship -- and return to his hometown of French Lick, where he briefly joined Northwood Institute.
In Winning Time, Bird explains that he dropped out because he missed home and didn't fit in with the city folk in Indianapolis. This is an accurate portrayal of Bird's real-life experience.
The real story behind key Larry Bird moments in HBO's ‘Winning Time'
Did Larry Bird really drop 40 points on Indiana State players in jeans? We separate fact from fiction in the latest episode of HBO’s “Winning Time.”
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