OT: Civil War Buffs

[BigWill]

MIds are just smarter than Cadets.
NAVY-Army Game in Philly.

Snowing like today.

Go into rest rooms and Upperclass Mids are lying on the floor with their feet/shoes under the hot air machines with Plebes pushing the button to keep the hot air blowing on their frozen feet.

Cadets walk on by too tough to think of defrosting feet....

 

[goru1869]

Great thread . A lot of interesting stuff to say the least, but boy has it taken a stroll away from the Civil War at times .😁

 

[zappaa]

MIds are just smarter than Cadets.
NAVY-Army Game in Philly.

Snowing like today.

Go into rest rooms and Upperclass Mids are lying on the floor with their feet/shoes under the hot air machines with Plebes pushing the button to keep the hot air blowing on their frozen feet.

Cadets walk on by too tough to think of defrosting feet....

Not sure how smart it is to lie on a men’s room floor...just sayin😀

 

[BigWill]

The MIds wear impervious raincoats to the Game.

They prefer to get a dirty raincoat that they can send to the cleaners than frozen feet.

I have only been warm from the sun/weather ONCE in the dozen or so NAVY-Army Games I've attended. Usually I wear heated insoles with wool socks and LL Bean boots. Silk long underwear and layer a couple of layered tops. My leaf tree hunting costume and wool hat with electric mittens.

You can always take a layer or two off it you get hot, but cold, not my thing.

 

[ashokan]

Great thread everyone. Everything from Civil War battles to horrors of slavery to flying at Mach 2. Thanks for sharing. A lot of really interesting and knowledgeable people in our RU community.

Speaking of Civ War and slavery - a guy who once lived on my hometown block was a runaway slave who met Lincoln and told him he could get 1000 other black soldiers. Lincoln told him he couldn't accept the offer because he was considered contraband. After the Emancipation Proclamation the man did raise 1000 soldeiers and went on to fight with Union Army. He wrote an autobiography that ended like this:



" I feel that I am greatly indebted to the government and to the American people for what they have done for me and for my race. I can not find words to express properly what I feel. But my heart is overflowing with gratitude, when I think of my situation and the situation of the people of my race now, and think of all the blessings we enjoy, compared with our former situation. I feel that as long as I live an honest life, do my work and conduct myself properly, I have the respect and the good wishes of the community. And this is true, I believe, not only of myself but of every man of my race. As long as we are honest and obey the law, seek to educate ourselves and to show ourselves worthy of freedom, we will have the respect of the American people and fair treatment from them.

It is a great thing to have lived to see this day come. It is great to feel that the people of my race understand something of the debt they owe this great country and are showing their appreciation by trying to be good citizens. Now I feel that I am a part of the country, that I have an interest in its welfare and a responsibility to it. Now I am treated as a man

God has been very good to me. I have preached His Gospel. I can read His book. America has been very good to me. I am one of its citizens. There is no stain on the Flag now. I once fought under its banner. The Great Emancipator is loved by the world now. He once shook hands with me.

Truly I can say with the psalmist, "The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places; yea, I have a goodly heritage."

Recollections of My Slavery Days:
Electronic Edition.
Singleton, William Henry, 1835-1938

William Henry Singleton. Recollections of My Slavery Days.

William Henry Singleton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[T2Kplus20]

I think I've watched every NPS tour vid on You Tube at least once. Matt Atkinson is great.

Matt Atkinson is amazing! Lots of great YT videos. Here is another one, outstanding tour of the entire battlefield!

A Guided Tour of the Gettysburg Battlefield
.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfjcMwhuiW0&list=WL&index=12

Link preview not working. Cut and paste without the "....."

 

[jreinsdorf]

Back in December I told the guys I coach youth lax with that we needed a father/son bonding trip. But I wanted the opportunity to educate so we took half the team and the dads to Gettysburg for a weekend. I can't go there enough. I appreciate and learn something every time and the boys are better off for having gone. The cherry on top was the HC of Gettysburg lacrosse Peter Toner giving my boys two hours of his time to allow us to tour the facilities with him.

 

[goru1869]

Back in December I told the guys I coach youth lax with that we needed a father/son bonding trip. But I wanted the opportunity to educate so we took half the team and the dads to Gettysburg for a weekend. I can't go there enough. I appreciate and learn something every time and the boys are better off for having gone. The cherry on top was the HC of Gettysburg lacrosse Peter Toner giving my boys two hours of his time to allow us to tour the facilities with him.

My family and I have been going there about 2 times every year for the past 10 years. Every time we learn something new.

 

[ElmiraExpress]

what does "uneducated" mean? I'm already suspicious of this documentary

uneducated means they have received little or no education

 

[ElmiraExpress]

Most interesting to me are the letters and diaries of the participants. Was fortunate enough to pick up a copy of George Templeron Strong’s civil war diaries at a reasonable price. If you did watch the Ken Burns series his name might be familiar. He was an NY lawyer who headed the Sanitary Commission

We still have all the letters written by my great great grandfather who served in the Civil War under McClellan, which means he didn’t see as fighting as the soldiers under Grant or Sherman. Although he was born in America, he was of Irish descent. In his letters he often talked about how Irish in America did not support the war or Lincoln. He was a Lincoln supporter himself, but in his letters, he often tried to convince his mother that Lincoln was a good man. In almost every letter, he ends it by asking his family to send him socks and whiskey.

 

[RUtom]

Do anyone else here go to the Gettysburg anniversary battlewalks? I usually go every year.

 

[HeywoodGiant]

uneducated means they have received little or no education

Like nearly everyone in the period

 

[NorthernKnight]

Absolute brawls while fighting over the hydrant. Scary, scary stuff.

It's why the junior man is still called the "johnny" since back in the day it was his job to secure the hydrant, nicknamed johnny pump (possiby because the inventers name was John), by "any means neccessary" and I do mean by any means. LOL

But the draft riots I mentioned earlier where a lot of the Irish were the main culprits was really, really bad.

The draft riots were so bad that union ships in the East River fired on the rioters.

 

[ElmiraExpress]

Like nearly everyone in the period

not everyone, my great grandfather had a doctorate from Syracuse University in the late 1800s. I’m not necessarily proud of that or bragging, I never even met the man obviously, but there were still many educated people then

 

[NorthernKnight]

Henry Shrapnel invented the Exploding shell whose content was named for him in 1784

The tactics and tools used by artillery during the civil war were Napoleonic.

I believe the answer lies there.

 

[NorthernKnight]

What’s the northernmost battle of the civil war?

 

[Zak57]

What’s the northernmost battle of the civil war?

It's not Gettysburg?

 

[T2Kplus20]

It's not Gettysburg?

Depends on how one defines "battle". I forgot the details but there was a small battle or engagement in Vermont with some confederates or supporters literally attacking from Canada! LOL.

However, considering only battles with real scale, it was Gettysburg.

 

[HeywoodGiant]

not everyone, my great grandfather had a doctorate from Syracuse University in the late 1800s. I’m not necessarily proud of that or bragging, I never even met the man obviously, but there were still many educated people then

It was probably even more useless then

 

[hoquat63]

We still have all the letters written by my great great grandfather who served in the Civil War under McClellan, which means he didn’t see as fighting as the soldiers under Grant or Sherman. Although he was born in America, he was of Irish descent. In his letters he often talked about how Irish in America did not support the war or Lincoln. He was a Lincoln supporter himself, but in his letters, he often tried to convince his mother that Lincoln was a good man. In almost every letter, he ends it by asking his family to send him socks and whiskey.

That’s really cool. Any historians ever get to see them? I have quite a few books that are letters or diaries from the period, I find them fascinating.

 

[NorthernKnight]

Depends on how one defines "battle". I forgot the details but there was a small battle or engagement in Vermont with some confederates or supporters literally attacking from Canada! LOL.

However, considering only battles with real scale, it was Gettysburg.

Correct. There’s always been contention whether it was St Albans Vermont where a confederate group of 22 attempted a raid, infiltrating from Canada, to rob 3-4 banks.

The Raid | St. Albans Raid

www.stalbansraid.com

 

[T2Kplus20]

Correct. There’s always been contention whether it was St Albans Vermont where a confederate group of 22 attempted a raid, infiltrating from Canada, to rob 3-4 banks.

The Raid | St. Albans Raid

www.stalbansraid.com

Got it!
I think I remember this from Ken Burns. :)

 

[goru1869]

Depends on how one defines "battle". I forgot the details but there was a small battle or engagement in Vermont with some confederates or supporters literally attacking from Canada! LOL.

However, considering only battles with real scale, it was Gettysburg.

The action in Vermont was a raid that included 18 confederates. They came in from Canada with the intention of robbing banks to get money for the confederacy. The date was Oct.19,1864.

 

[goru1869]

Correct. There’s always been contention whether it was St Albans Vermont where a confederate group of 22 attempted a raid, infiltrating from Canada, to rob 3-4 banks.

The Raid | St. Albans Raid

www.stalbansraid.com

Ya beat me to it.

 

[RUtom]

Confederates from Ewell’s corp made it up near Harrisburg and skirmished in that area on the west side of the river. Confederates also burned the Carlisle barracks, all part of the Gettysburg campaign and very much north of adams county.

 

[nick614]

You could buy you way out of the draft in the North. Usually an Irish immigrant was happy to "join" in the spot.

Without Grant it is likely that Lee would have won.

The North was always going to win the problem early on was Union leadership was old and slow and too cautious. War could have ended early during the Peninsula Campaign if someone like Winfield Scott Hancock or Baldy Smith was in charge.

The timeline would have been in a 3 month span in 1862:

Grant taking Fort Henry and Fort Donelson along the Mississippi River
Farragut taking New Orleans
Hancock/Smith taking Richmond

The South probably would have surrendered.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Apologies if I already posted something like this. I looked thru posts and didn't see anything.

My great grandfather (yep, just one great) was a surgeon in the Confederacy. We have all his letters home from the front. He was in the army that Sherman ran thru the South. They thought their leadership was totally incompetent. He said that sometimes at night, the Union troops were so close they could hear them singing around their campfires. His uniform in his sleeve once had four minie ball holes in it (because of the fold in it) without hitting him. You did not want to got a bullet wound in the Civil War. Options were limited and anesthetic was in its infancy. He kept a diary when he was in med school at University of New Orleans. My favorite entry: "36 hours straight of surgery - then went into town for some horizontal refreshement"

My great great uncle (also Confederacy) was killed at the battle of Savage's Station at age 19. We have the Bible he carried with him. On my Mom's side, we had Union soldiers, but know less about them.

My great grandfather moved to Ohio later in life and was once interviewed for the Akron Beacon Journal. He was asked what he thought would have happened had the South won. He said he thought it would not last long as a country as the southern states didn't have much use for one another and that they would have become a bunch of banana republics.

 

[CERU00]

The North was always going to win the problem early on was Union leadership was old and slow and too cautious. War could have ended early during the Peninsula Campaign if someone like Winfield Scott Hancock or Baldy Smith was in charge.

The timeline would have been in a 3 month span in 1862:

Grant taking Fort Henry and Fort Donelson along the Mississippi River
Farragut taking New Orleans
Hancock/Smith taking Richmond

The South probably would have surrendered.

Seriously doubt it.... I don't think a long bloody war could have been avoided. The south wasn't going down easy.

 

[nick614]

Seriously doubt it.... I don't think a long bloody war could have been avoided. The south wasn't going down easy.

Losing control of Kentucky, Tennesse, New Orleans (trade) and Virginia in a 3 month span wouldn't be going down easy that is just going down completely.

 

[CERU00]

Losing control of Kentucky, Tennesse, New Orleans (trade) and Virginia in a 3 month span wouldn't be going down easy that is just going down completely.

If you think that was ever possible....you're out of your mind.

 

[nick614]

If you think that was ever possible....you're out of your mind.

2/3 of those things I mentioned actually happened and both Hancock and Baldy Smith broke through the confederate defenses on the peninsula, but were ordered to withdrawal and weren't given support. So yes the 3rd thing happening was very plausible as well.

 

[CERU00]

2/3 of those things I mentioned actually happened and both Hancock and Baldy Smith broke through the confederate defenses on the peninsula, but were ordered to withdrawal and weren't given support. So yes the 3rd thing happening was very plausible as well.

In 3 months?

 

[zappaa]

Apologies if I already posted something like this. I looked thru posts and didn't see anything.

My great grandfather (yep, just one great) was a surgeon in the Confederacy. We have all his letters home from the front. He was in the army that Sherman ran thru the South. They thought their leadership was totally incompetent. He said that sometimes at night, the Union troops were so close they could hear them singing around their campfires. His uniform in his sleeve once had four minie ball holes in it (because of the fold in it) without hitting him. You did not want to got a bullet wound in the Civil War. Options were limited and anesthetic was in its infancy. He kept a diary when he was in med school at University of New Orleans. My favorite entry: "36 hours straight of surgery - then went into town for some horizontal refreshement"

My great great uncle (also Confederacy) was killed at the battle of Savage's Station at age 19. We have the Bible he carried with him. On my Mom's side, we had Union soldiers, but know less about them.

My great grandfather moved to Ohio later in life and was once interviewed for the Akron Beacon Journal. He was asked what he thought would have happened had the South won. He said he thought it would not last long as a country as the southern states didn't have much use for one another and that they would have become a bunch of banana republics.

All of my mom’s family and roots were from Arkansas, they fought for the Confederacy

 

[SkilletHead2]

All of my mom’s family and roots were from Arkansas, they fought for the Confederacy

Very interesting. I wonder if you look at it the same way I do?

My dad knew my great grandfather (surgeon for the Confederacy), who lived into his 90's. He said that he was a kind old guy who would treat people for no money or in exchange for a chicken or something if the people were too proud to accept charity. The surgeon's brother voted against secession in the Mississippi state legislature. And in the war, he tried to save all comers, Union or Confederate. We have a letter of him trying to save a Union officer.

I try to understand who he was and what the time was. It is just about impossible to understand the antebellum South. Would you or I have been the same in the same circumstances? I'd like to think not, but it's tough.

Stay well! And good luck to your daughter in the upcoming season!

 

[T2Kplus20]

I try to understand who he was and what the time was. It is just about impossible to understand the antebellum South. Would you or I have been the same in the same circumstances? I'd like to think not, but it's tough.

Famous CW quote:

Union officer to a Confederate soldier - "Why are you fighting this war?"
Confederate soldier's reply - "Because you are down here"

Sometimes, things are not that complicated.

 

[zappaa]

Very interesting. I wonder if you look at it the same way I do?

My dad knew my great grandfather (surgeon for the Confederacy), who lived into his 90's. He said that he was a kind old guy who would treat people for no money or in exchange for a chicken or something if the people were too proud to accept charity. The surgeon's brother voted against secession in the Mississippi state legislature. And in the war, he tried to save all comers, Union or Confederate. We have a letter of him trying to save a Union officer.

I try to understand who he was and what the time was. It is just about impossible to understand the antebellum South. Would you or I have been the same in the same circumstances? I'd like to think not, but it's tough.

Stay well! And good luck to your daughter in the upcoming season!

I think the average uneducated, dirt poor Johnny Reb foot soldier thought they were being invaded.
They fought to save their families and property if they had any.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Famous CW quote:

Union officer to a Confederate soldier - "Why are you fighting this war?"
Confederate soldier's reply - "Because you are down here"

Sometimes, things are not that complicated.

But the Civil War was infinitely more complicated than that.

 

[SkilletHead2]

I think the average uneducated, dirt poor Johnny Reb foot soldier thought they were being invaded.
They fought to save their families and property if they had any.

Yeah, but I was thinking more of people like my great grandfather, an educated man whose family was opposed to secession. Just hard to figure.

 

[ashokan]

I think the average uneducated, dirt poor Johnny Reb foot soldier thought they were being invaded.
They fought to save their families and property if they had any.

Home states were more important to people than the federal gov back then. Lee thought slavery was a political and moral evil, and he didn't want Virginia to secede, but when it did he felt he had to stand with his home state rather than fight against it (remember Lee was already in the Army when war was looming). The northern states and federal gov were going to force southern states to stay in union instead of allowing peaceful secession - thus "The War of Northern Aggression" as it was called

Lee complained secession was revolution against the founders and their principles. But he also figured it would be odd to be in a union "that can only be maintained by swords and bayonets." He also wrote "If I owned the four millions of slaves in the South I would sacrifice them all to the Union; but how can I draw my sword upon Virginia, my native state?"

If an educated Lee felt loyal to his state, and since the North was going to militantly force the South to stay in the Union, its clear to see how common citizens would also feel committed to their state. Most soldiers didn't own slaves. Lee himself considered slave owning a chore and character hazard and got rid of most his by time of the war

 

[T2Kplus20]

But the Civil War was infinitely more complicated than that.

Overall, yes. For many specific soldiers or surgeons, no.