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OT: Electric vehicles

Strategically, incentivizing manufacturing in LA is a much better play than manufacturing in China. The labor force is there, the transport costs are lower and the carrot can be used to encourage stability among LA governments.

I have long advocated that the most elegant solution to our southern border problem is to provide incentive for Latinos to stay at home.
With Giga Berlin beginning production, Shanghai export to Europe will cease and the vast majority of Shanghai Teslas will be sold in China. China is the largest EV market in the world. It makes perfect sense to set up shop there.
LA has zero EV market, zero infrastructure.
There may be something to you thesis, but not in this specific case.
 
With Giga Berlin beginning production, Shanghai export to Europe will cease and the vast majority of Shanghai Teslas will be sold in China. China is the largest EV market in the world. It makes perfect sense to set up shop there.
LA has zero EV market, zero infrastructure.
There may be something to you thesis, but not in this specific case.

Latin America doesn't need an EV market. Those countries can produce for export. And as per infrastructure, it's not true that they have "zero". Tech companies are quite busy locating public cloud data centers in places like Costa Rica and El Salvador.

But by all means, please continue with your interesting take on "How Brown People Live".
 
Latin America doesn't need an EV market. Those countries can produce for export. And as per infrastructure, it's not true that they have "zero". Tech companies are quite busy locating public cloud data centers in places like Costa Rica and El Salvador.

But by all means, please continue with your interesting take on "How Brown People Live".
My non-tech company has a large finance service center operation in Costa Rica, as do many others. There is a lot of business opportunity in LA...there is already quite a bit of manufacturing there as well. it's not like they don't know how to do these things. they just don't do enough of it to sustain their population.
 
Anecdotally speaking, it made a difference to the folks I know who own one. The credit made the Tesla's more price competitive with the other cars they were considering, if not price advantageous.
No one who has purchased a Tesla over the past two years has received a federal credit, including me.
 
My non-tech company has a large finance service center operation in Costa Rica, as do many others. There is a lot of business opportunity in LA...there is already quite a bit of manufacturing there as well. it's not like they don't know how to do these things. they just don't do enough of it to sustain their population.

I've come to believe that the range of the other poster's vision is precisely the same as the length of Elon's schlong.
 
No one who has purchased a Tesla over the past two years has received a federal credit, including me.
Most folks moved into my neighborhood in 2018/2019 and already had their teslas...so I presume they were able to take advantage.
 
This is not accurate. The primary geological characteristic of the Pine Barrens is that it is alluvial, i.e. an outwash plain.
Yea - keep reading wikipedia for your history - great source. But getting back to the big picture the climate has had huge swings in the last 50000 years. If you deny that you are the real climate denier.
 
Lightning orders update—
Key line in the whole article. "
We don't know how many units Ford will be able to produce in 2022, but Jim Farley says they are doing " whatever it takes" to double the capacity."

I actually think ford is the only company that now gets it - GM and the other US companies are in deep sh??
 
Yea - keep reading wikipedia for your history - great source. But getting back to the big picture the climate has had huge swings in the last 50000 years. If you deny that you are the real climate denier.
Keep reading your climate for kooks picture books, since science doesn't seem to be your thing.
 
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Yea - keep reading wikipedia for your history - great source. But getting back to the big picture the climate has had huge swings in the last 50000 years. If you deny that you are the real climate denier.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

The change related to natural forces takes thousands of years. It's gradual. What we're seeing over the last 100 years doesn't fit that narrative.

What's funny about this exchange is how you landed flat on your face. You don't have the chops to counter my statement about the geology of the NJ coastal plain so you accuse me of getting my "history" from Wikipedia. That's pretty funny.

If you think you're right and I'm wrong, tell me why.

But you can't. Because you have no idea what you're talking about. The coastal plain was never at the bottom of an ocean. It's depositional.
 
[ it.
Latin America doesn't need an EV market. Those countries can produce for export. And as per infrastructure, it's not true that they have "zero". Tech companies are quite busy locating public cloud data centers in places like Costa Rica and El Salvador.

But by all means, please continue with your interesting take on "How Brown People Live".
Exporting cars vs exporting something like phones is a huge difference. Shipping cars around the world is a PIA. Exactly the reason Tesla was in such a rush to get a factory going in Europe and China. I didn't say your idea was bad. Presently, it's a bad idea for a car company.
 
[ it.

Exporting cars vs exporting something like phones is a huge difference. Shipping cars around the world is a PIA. Exactly the reason Tesla was in such a rush to get a factory going in Europe and China. I didn't say your idea was bad. Presently, it's a bad idea for a car company.

Totally disagree.

Shipping cars from Point A to Point B is the same, regardless of where Point A and Point B happen to lie. Logistics is logistics.
 
You really don't know what you're talking about.

The change related to natural forces takes thousands of years. It's gradual. What we're seeing over the last 100 years doesn't fit that narrative.

What's funny about this exchange is how you landed flat on your face. You don't have the chops to counter my statement about the geology of the NJ coastal plain so you accuse me of getting my "history" from Wikipedia. That's pretty funny.

If you think you're right and I'm wrong, tell me why.

But you can't. Because you have no idea what you're talking about. The coastal plain was never at the bottom of an ocean. It's depositional.
I guess you never heard of the Medieval Warm Period or the Little Ice Age. Of course not - they don't fit your narrative.
 
Totally disagree.

Shipping cars from Point A to Point B is the same, regardless of where Point A and Point B happen to lie. Logistics is logistics.
So distance doesn't matter? Land vs water? Existence of highway systems?

Saying logistics is logistics kind of ignores the logistics.
 
I guess you never heard of the Medieval Warm Period or the Little Ice Age. Of course not - they don't fit your narrative.
Because there have been warming and cooling periods in the past does not mean the current warming period is not caused by CO2 emissions.
 
I guess you never heard of the Medieval Warm Period or the Little Ice Age. Of course not - they don't fit your narrative.

Yes, I've heard of them. They are comparative anomalies and utterly outside the discussion on climate change because the global deviation from norm in both cases was less than .5 degrees C.

But you're clearly an expert. Tell us more about the Pinelands at the Bottom of the Sea.
1920px-2000%2B_year_global_temperature_including_Medieval_Warm_Period_and_Little_Ice_Age_-_Ed_Hawkins.svg.png
 
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So distance doesn't matter? Land vs water? Existence of highway systems?

Saying logistics is logistics kind of ignores the logistics.

No, it really doesn't. It simply discounts the specific inputs to any given situation.

My point is that exporting cars from China, from Latin America, from Europe - it's all fundamentally the same. Trucks from factory to port, RO/RO to the next port, then truck to destination. Latin America is closer than China. Significantly less transit time, particularly to East Cost POEs such as Newark.
 
No, it really doesn't. It simply discounts the specific inputs to any given situation.

My point is that exporting cars from China, from Latin America, from Europe - it's all fundamentally the same. Trucks from factory to port, RO/RO to the next port, then truck to destination. Latin America is closer than China. Significantly less transit time, particularly to East Cost POEs such as Newark.
Does TSLA ship cars to Newark from China?

And the bold contradicts your point. Distance and other logistic considerations, matter.
 
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Does TSLA ship cars to Newark from China?

No idea. Don't care, that's not the topic.

I'm talking about building for export, generally. Several manufacturers are now either building in China for export, or planning to. I'm saying that's a bad strategic move.
 
No idea. Don't care, that's not the topic.

I'm talking about building for export, generally. Several manufacturers are now either building in China for export, or planning to. I'm saying that's a bad strategic move.
It certainly matters in the "logisitics is logistics" portion of the discussion.

I think the idea of building in China is to serve the China market. That's why TSLA started in CA, opened a factory in China, and is now opening factories in Texas(ie further inland in the US) and Europe. Build them where you sell them. Minimize the logistics.

That is what Bellyfull's point seems to be.
 
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It certainly matters in the "logisitics is logistics" portion of the discussion.

I think the idea of building in China is to serve the China market. That's why TSLA started in CA, opened a factory in China, and is now opening factories in Texas(ie further inland in the US) and Europe. Build them where you sell them. Minimize the logistics.

That is what Bellyfull's point seems to be.

Okay. I'll buy it.
 
Yes, I've heard of them. They are comparative anomalies and utterly outside the discussion on climate change because the global deviation from norm in both cases was less than .5 degrees C.

But you're clearly an expert. Tell us more about the Pinelands at the Bottom of the Sea.
1920px-2000%2B_year_global_temperature_including_Medieval_Warm_Period_and_Little_Ice_Age_-_Ed_Hawkins.svg.png
I hear that the current increase in temp is just about increase solar activity.
:)
 
No idea. Don't care, that's not the topic.

I'm talking about building for export, generally. Several manufacturers are now either building in China for export, or planning to. I'm saying that's a bad strategic move.
Which doesn't apply to Tesla. The reason Shanghai became the primary export hub over the last 2 quarters is because the Berlin factory has been tied up in miles of German red tape. Using Shanghai for mostly export wasn't the original plan. Berlin was ready to go in July.
 
I guess you never heard of the Medieval Warm Period or the Little Ice Age. Of course not - they don't fit your narrative.
Both have been debunked in many ways by actual climatologists with real credentials. I won't bother to post a link to one so that this can become a pissing match about the authenticity of my source. Some really basic Google searches would let you find them in real climate science journals if you genuinely wanted to hear them challenged.
As I also see you use canned phrases right out of the best denier sources that routinely use F.L.I.C.C. strategies, I'm thinking I would be wasting my time to perform those searches for you, too.
Five Characteristics of Climate Science Denial
 
Key line in the whole article. "
We don't know how many units Ford will be able to produce in 2022, but Jim Farley says they are doing " whatever it takes" to double the capacity."

I actually think ford is the only company that now gets it - GM and the other US companies are in deep sh??
GM is very much moving in the same direction. VW too. The japanese companies seem a little behind, but not that far.
 
Yes, I've heard of them. They are comparative anomalies and utterly outside the discussion on climate change because the global deviation from norm in both cases was less than .5 degrees C.

But you're clearly an expert. Tell us more about the Pinelands at the Bottom of the Sea.
1920px-2000%2B_year_global_temperature_including_Medieval_Warm_Period_and_Little_Ice_Age_-_Ed_Hawkins.svg.png
I am sure they took really good temperature reading in the last 2000 years. that chart must be reliable. Face it - no one knows the exact range and this "scientific" chart just proves my point.
 
Because there have been warming and cooling periods in the past does not mean the current warming period is not caused by CO2 emissions.
You are right and that is my point - no one knows for sure. No one. And if you read the paris report the elimination of all ICE vehicles "could" lower world temps by a max of "less" than 1 degree. It is in the report - I am all for electric vehicles just not for the same reason as others - and i never panic.
 
I am sure they took really good temperature reading in the last 2000 years. that chart must be reliable. Face it - no one knows the exact range and this "scientific" chart just proves my point.

Really? So you, the esteemed, undoubtedly award-winning paleogeologist, don't know how historic temperatures are determined?

I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.

You're embarrassing yourself.
 
GM is very much moving in the same direction. VW too. The japanese companies seem a little behind, but not that far.
After the whole Chevy Bolt fiasco, are you concerned that GM is continuing forward and expanding production with large, pouch style battery cells?
 
VW Yes - GM is all talk - they are a politically focused mess.
I work for GM. While GM does make their political activity public, maybe more so than other manufacturers, what do you know that backs up your statement?
 
After the whole Chevy Bolt fiasco, are you concerned that GM is continuing forward and expanding production with large, pouch style battery cells?
GM is transitioning to a new battery called Ultium. Furthermore, GM is taking more control over its electric car and battery supply chain. In short, lessons are being learned and better processes implemented. This current company is not the GM of old that would create failures and then not be accountable for them. Does this mean that there will be no issues? Of course not, but car manufacturers don't make money these days if the cars they make fail.
 
GM is transitioning to a new battery called Ultium. Furthermore, GM is taking more control over its electric car and battery supply chain. In short, lessons are being learned and better processes implemented. This current company is not the GM of old that would create failures and then not be accountable for them. Does this mean that there will be no issues? Of course not, but car manufacturers don't make money these days if the cars they make fail.
Ultium is a pouch style cell. The same form factor responsible for the Bolt fires and recalls. Of all the different battery form factors, large, pouch style cells are the most prone to thermal runaway. Why are they sticking with this?
 
Ultium is a pouch style cell. The same form factor responsible for the Bolt fires and recalls. Of all the different battery form factors, large, pouch style cells are the most prone to thermal runaway. Why are they sticking with this?
Weight, maleability, scalabity and eventually cost as compared to cylindrical and other cell types. It would be unreal to believe that the industry isn't doing all it can to fix the heat problem.

Bottom line is that EVs will be good for the bottom line as they are more solid state with many repairs to be done by downloads. No such thing as dead customers so the industry will overcome this issue.
 
Not entirely on-topic, this video, but illustrative of what will eventually be lost when ICE cars are no more. But the car people in the thread will appreciate it as it gives a bit of a taste of what an F1 driver sees and feels on a hot lap. The helmet cam here is attached to the left side of the driver’s helmet. A not often seen perspective.

You might have to click into YouTube due to copyright rules. It is not a Rick roll, I promise. 🙂

 
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