I'm pro EV but you are completely wrong about the battery life. I drove a 80k model X before and its horrible.
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OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
Model X P90D. The battery lost 35% of its capacity.
My 2023 Model Y LR also lost 7% already after 20K miles.
Model X battery warranty is 8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of battery capacity over the warranty period.
https://insideevs.com/news/664106/tesla-battery-capacity-degradation-average-2022/
It’s not about warranty. You said an EV battery pack will outlast the vehicle in most cases. Even though you can get a replacement, it’s still a pain in the ass since they won’t give you a brand new battery.
Older vehicles, or any machine with moving parts lose efficiency over time. Physics is a bitch. How you care for your battery goes a long way too. I'm at 60k mi and have less than 10% degradation. Most of that degradation occured in the first few years of ownership. It's seemed to plateau now.
The Washington Post has a new article about the slow rollout of electric chargers. At the end of 2021, Congress, at the behest of the Biden administration, authorized $7.5 billion for the construction of EV charging stations. So far the money has produced only 7 charging stations with 38 spots. Supposedly the pace will pick up as the federal government approves state plans to install the stations. Good charging spots are sorely needed: J.D. Powers estimates that only 80% of charging attempts are successful.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim..._campaign=wp_news_alert_revere&location=alert
https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim..._campaign=wp_news_alert_revere&location=alert
BTW, this piece says that the greenest car is (drum roll) the Prius plug-in hybrid. Having driven a Prius for 120,000 miles, I feel entitled to dis the car, and my understanding is that the new models have even worse visibility than the one I had. Note, though, that the plug-in Rav 4 also does very well. I regret that the Post's stories are behind a pay wall.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2024/02/28/greenest-cars-plug-in-hybrid/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2024/02/28/greenest-cars-plug-in-hybrid/
I think it's life-cycle. But the article contains a more fundamental critique. The study assumes that drivers with plug-ins actually do plug in the car regularly rather than rely on gasoline. . But it's not at all clear that assumption is true.
Well then maybe dont vote for creeps like Murphy
I prepaid my registration through 2027. Does that mean I don’t have to pay the $250 fee until 2028?
LOL. Just gave me another reason to never buy one.
Makes sense that the frunk is ultra small, and there's a large trunk with KK driving. 😂
P.S. @bac2therac, don't get angry -- it's not good for your health!
Hard to believe the study you posted (no offense). They rank some pure ICE cars as "greener" than pure BEVs. Nothing of substance on their website how their rating are calculated.
Many other studies disagree...
We don't agree on this, but IMO, respectfully, you are being a little myopic.
As a SULEV, the Prius Prime is said to emit 0.9 metric tons/year of CO2. 90% better than average gasoline-powered vehicles. That's substantial.
Production of a Tesla Battery results in 2.5 to 16 metric tons of CO2, according to MIT. This also does not account for much of the grid in the US being powered by "dirty" sources (e.g., coal--slowly going away).
PHEVs have a place and are a great bridge for those that want the benefits of cheap fuel and doing something for the environment.
We can argue about it, but forcing more pure EVs onto the road given the state of the current grid is unwise, IMO.
How much CO2 is emitted by manufacturing batteries?
It depends exactly where and how the battery is made—but when it comes to clean technologies like electric cars and solar power, even the dirtiest batteries emit less CO2 than using no battery at all.
2024 Toyota Prius Prime
Fuel Economy of the 2024 Toyota Prius Prime. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of the 2024 Toyota Prius Prime side-by-side with other cars and trucks
www.fueleconomy.gov
It's worth noting that in 2023 coal accounted for only 16% of generation of American electricity. (In the 1970s, it was more than half.) Other fossil fuels (almost entirely natural gas) are 44%, nuclear is 18%, and renewables (including hydro) are 21%. One big problem right now is connecting solar/wind to the grid and storing solar/wind generated in the daytime to meet evening demands for electricity (e.g. home air conditioning). Things are getting better, but it's taking time.We don't agree on this, but IMO, respectfully, you are being a little myopic.
As a SULEV, the Prius Prime is said to emit 0.9 metric tons/year of CO2. 90% better than average gasoline-powered vehicles. That's substantial.
Production of a Tesla Battery results in 2.5 to 16 metric tons of CO2, according to MIT. This also does not account for much of the grid in the US being powered by "dirty" sources (e.g., coal--slowly going away).
PHEVs have a place and are a great bridge for those that want the benefits of cheap fuel and doing something for the environment.
We can argue about it, but forcing more pure EVs onto the road given the state of the current grid is unwise, IMO.
How much CO2 is emitted by manufacturing batteries?
It depends exactly where and how the battery is made—but when it comes to clean technologies like electric cars and solar power, even the dirtiest batteries emit less CO2 than using no battery at all.climate.mit.edu
2024 Toyota Prius Prime
Fuel Economy of the 2024 Toyota Prius Prime. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of the 2024 Toyota Prius Prime side-by-side with other cars and truckswww.fueleconomy.gov
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
It would be nice if MIT could get the correct capacity for a Model 3 battery. The average pack capacity across all trims is much less than 80 kWh. If they're basing their emissions on an 80 kWh pack, they'd actually be much lower.We don't agree on this, but IMO, respectfully, you are being a little myopic.
As a SULEV, the Prius Prime is said to emit 0.9 metric tons/year of CO2. 90% better than average gasoline-powered vehicles. That's substantial.
Production of a Tesla Battery results in 2.5 to 16 metric tons of CO2, according to MIT. This also does not account for much of the grid in the US being powered by "dirty" sources (e.g., coal--slowly going away).
PHEVs have a place and are a great bridge for those that want the benefits of cheap fuel and doing something for the environment.
We can argue about it, but forcing more pure EVs onto the road given the state of the current grid is unwise, IMO.
How much CO2 is emitted by manufacturing batteries?
It depends exactly where and how the battery is made—but when it comes to clean technologies like electric cars and solar power, even the dirtiest batteries emit less CO2 than using no battery at all.
2024 Toyota Prius Prime
Fuel Economy of the 2024 Toyota Prius Prime. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of the 2024 Toyota Prius Prime side-by-side with other cars and truckswww.fueleconomy.gov
But anyway, it states right in the abstract that "even the dirtiest batteries emit less CO2 than using no battery at all".
And how much CO2 + other pollutants are released from the exploration, extraction, transportation, refinement, and combustion of gasoline? These are endless emissions as long as the vehicle is in operation. Battery pack is one time.
Overall, a pro EV article.
FYI...
Currently only version numbers below 2024.3 are eligible for the 2024.3.6 update.
I'm on 2024.2.7, so I'm good to go. Come on Elon!!
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And right back at ya, I highly doubt anyone can accurately quantify the amount of CO2 and NOx is emitted from the mining equipment (tractors, front end loaders, trucks), the beneficiation (conveyors, furnaces, washing, etc) and the downstream manufacturing of the battery packs. The problem with a lot of estimates is they are skewed by the battery sunshine pumpers on one side, and the FauxNews EV haters on the other side.
You really cherry picked the greatest pro-battery sunshine pumping quotes out of that article.
I'm pro-EV, but pragmatic about it. We are far from being "there" yet for all the folks that can't afford or don't have access to home chargers for full EVs. Plug-in hybrids are a pragmatic bridge.
Endless emissions for the average homemaker or retired person whose driving consists 90% running to the market, errands, visiting the grandkids, etc? I think not. With our plug in EV, we run mostly on the 51 mil range hybrid battery, except when we take long trips.
You also forgot that the energy generated by the grid is still dirty. Some is clean, and it is getting cleaner on the coasts. In the middle of the country, not so much.
Interesting they didn’t do the photo from the factory in China. More than half of that 6mm were built in China.
More and more LFP batteries on the horizon, despite their lower energy density. Someone in this thread predicted this exact thing.
https://www.teslarati.com/catl-license-lfp-battery-general-motors/
https://www.teslarati.com/catl-license-lfp-battery-general-motors/
Cobbling together sales from Teslarati website, seeing about 2.2 to 2.4M in cars produced in China. Not far off.
See, even the "climate activists" agree EVs are bad for the environment! 😁 😏
Car dealers in N.J. are ready to sell more electric vehicles. There’s just no demand.
Car dealers in N.J. are ready to sell more electric vehicles. There’s just no demand.
“I think it’s fair to say that the early adopters have adopted," one business advocate said. EVs made up 11% of the car sales in 2023.
That a great thing. They wouldn't be able to power them if there were.
FSD Version 12.3.3
2 days with the update and I'm speechless. The hype is real. Tesla will pioneer autonomous driving. There is no doubt now.
2 days with the update and I'm speechless. The hype is real. Tesla will pioneer autonomous driving. There is no doubt now.
Dumbest eco-terrorists on Earth or puppets?
Follow the money has never been more true.
Now you believe the media when it fits your anti-EV narrative? Think on that for a second.Car dealers in N.J. are ready to sell more electric vehicles. There’s just no demand.
Car dealers in N.J. are ready to sell more electric vehicles. There’s just no demand.
“I think it’s fair to say that the early adopters have adopted," one business advocate said. EVs made up 11% of the car sales in 2023.www.nj.com
EV sales jumped from 1% in 2019 to 11% in 2023 in NJ.
No demand?
I've got a secret to tell you. Car dealerships want nothing to do with EVs, and they're doing everything in their power to prevent customers from buying them. Dealerships make their money on parts and service. EVs require much less of both.
EV sales will continue to grow in 2024 whether it's in NJ, across the US, or globally. Book it.
Gigafactory in Austin is growing larger in headcount.
electrek.co
Tesla becomes Austin's largest private employer as Giga Texas headcount surges
Tesla becomes Austin’s largest private employer as the headcount at Gigafactory Texas surges to a ridiculously high level. The automaker...
electrek.co
US government builds seven electric vehicle chargers in two years. Just another 499,993 to go
US government builds seven electric vehicle chargers in two years. Just another 499,993 to go
Despite concerns at the slow pace, transport officials say 500,000 public charging stations will be available nationwide by 2027
Look deep and I'm sure you find a lot of "cut-out" businesses and consultants raking cash in and sending a cut back to DC - pretty much a money laundering operation these days.
Pentagon Audit Showing $1.9 Trillion in Missing Assets Signals Urgent Need Not for More Money but for Reform
The accounting disaster is a reflection of layers of bureaucratic incompetence which are undermining and crippling American national security.
www.nysun.com
