OT: Horrific week for Orlando continues
- Thread starter RUtix4me
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Consider the following from my background:
1) The last time I was at Dinsey I first stayed outside the village on the strip (Courthouse by Mariott). There was a lake adjacent to the property and it warned not to go on the beach due to dangerous gators.
2) When I extended my vacation there (1994ish) I moved down the strip to a low budget motel; When walking past the office at night I saw a large black snake near me. I was gonna notify the office but it was closed. The snake wound up in the pool the next morning causing much commotion.
3) Was fairly paranoid of sharks since ~1976 when I saw "Jaws"-a week or two before the 1st summer at my family's Manahawkin summer house (swam in surf city at least twice a week for 35 summers)
4) Before the attack I will mention the last known shark attack in NJ was to the father of someone I went to school with (never met)
5) Unless another attack was covered up the last attack (later said by some to be a surfboard cut) occurred on a street I used to swim at in Surf City on LBI.
6) On a really bad undertoe/rip current day during the late Spring of 1987 in Atlantic Beach, NC tired as a could be I almost drown after I hit what I thought was a dead body or big fish (I screamed, nobody heard med inc the lifeguard, nobody was missing so I didn't speak up) . Two days later my internship advisor informed me 2 people died at the same time I was in the water-same location...
7) During my MBA at RU in 1995 I wrote a paper and gave a presentation on how many crimes and incidents at Disney are covered up by park policer/personnel and outside police are thwarted from doing their jobs. Also a place for sexual predators/child molesters..
Given the above unless posted (though I'm very cautious by nature) I'm not sure I would believe there were Alligators on the Grand Floridian lakes/ lagoon? Didn't people used to swim, sail and paddleboat there? The last time I was at Disney WAS 1995...
Is is me or am I naïve to think that the Dinsey people would have those bodies of water clear of anything dangerous?
1) The last time I was at Dinsey I first stayed outside the village on the strip (Courthouse by Mariott). There was a lake adjacent to the property and it warned not to go on the beach due to dangerous gators.
2) When I extended my vacation there (1994ish) I moved down the strip to a low budget motel; When walking past the office at night I saw a large black snake near me. I was gonna notify the office but it was closed. The snake wound up in the pool the next morning causing much commotion.
3) Was fairly paranoid of sharks since ~1976 when I saw "Jaws"-a week or two before the 1st summer at my family's Manahawkin summer house (swam in surf city at least twice a week for 35 summers)
4) Before the attack I will mention the last known shark attack in NJ was to the father of someone I went to school with (never met)
5) Unless another attack was covered up the last attack (later said by some to be a surfboard cut) occurred on a street I used to swim at in Surf City on LBI.
6) On a really bad undertoe/rip current day during the late Spring of 1987 in Atlantic Beach, NC tired as a could be I almost drown after I hit what I thought was a dead body or big fish (I screamed, nobody heard med inc the lifeguard, nobody was missing so I didn't speak up) . Two days later my internship advisor informed me 2 people died at the same time I was in the water-same location...
7) During my MBA at RU in 1995 I wrote a paper and gave a presentation on how many crimes and incidents at Disney are covered up by park policer/personnel and outside police are thwarted from doing their jobs. Also a place for sexual predators/child molesters..
Given the above unless posted (though I'm very cautious by nature) I'm not sure I would believe there were Alligators on the Grand Floridian lakes/ lagoon? Didn't people used to swim, sail and paddleboat there? The last time I was at Disney WAS 1995...
Is is me or am I naïve to think that the Dinsey people would have those bodies of water clear of anything dangerous?
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Since @AshSaturday mentioned sharks, thought I'd mention we're coming up on the 100th anniversary of the Jersey man-eater, July 1 -- July 12, 1916
Listen - alligators tend to be scared of humans. However, they very frequently attach small animals on the lake shore. A 2 year old is a prime target.
For those above, alligators often kill their prey and store it while it decomposes to eat later. It was not surprising that the child was found in tact.
It is virtually impossible to keep alligators out of any lake and especially one the size of the lake in Disney. For those traveling to Florida any time soon I would look for alligators in every body of water around - you most likely will see one. While you are at it, please look for water moccasins/cotton mouths because they are definitely around and they will cause you great pain.
A lot of young people dying and a lot of traumatized parents unfortunately. The father of the kid taken by an alligator is going to have the image of his kid being dragged away etched into his brain for the rest of his life. I saw an interview of the mother of an 18 year old girl killed at Pulse and all I could think after seeing her face was that this woman looks like she is at the start of a long journey into a very dark place.
23, I was insinuating that even with my background, I'm not so sure that I (probably much ore aware than a family from the boonies in Nebraska) would worry about Gators in a Disney run lake. That said I forgot I have watches "River Monsters" so that alone would quite possibly prevent me from swimming in any lake or river (at least unsupervised) Now I eard they are contemplating charging the parents?
Oh oh Newc12 has just reported a press conference on dime sized jellyfish in the ShRusbury River whose sting can potentially cause kidney shutdown...
As someone who has a home in the Orlando area its been a very tough week. My heart goes out to the victims.....I am proud of how the city responded....with 100s giving blood & vigils everywhere.
My heart also goes out to the singer who was shot while signing autographs and also the parents of the two year old....
Its been a VERY tough week....
My heart also goes out to the singer who was shot while signing autographs and also the parents of the two year old....
Its been a VERY tough week....
My bad, interpreted the end of your post to be some sort of conspiracy theory that the kid wasn't really taken by a gator.
23, big "The X-Files" fan and definitely into coverups (as apparently was the case way back when a 1st time flight attendant from Cook went down with hundreds of others on TWA Flight 800) and conspiracies-but this isn't one of them. I think Disney is gonna pay for this one and TMZ inferred such tonight. Major oversight/blunder.
I think Harvey Levin? said it best on TMZ tonight (just finishing up). it's almost in the Disney brand that the water would be safe-because it's owned by Disney! Like I reported on my MBA talk back in 1995 Disney covers up/attempts many bad things that happen within its borders.
I think Harvey Levin? said it best on TMZ tonight (just finishing up). it's almost in the Disney brand that the water would be safe-because it's owned by Disney! Like I reported on my MBA talk back in 1995 Disney covers up/attempts many bad things that happen within its borders.
A few notes from TMZ on all...
GATOR-Lavin says Disney likely in big legal trouble as Disney knew there were gators in the lagoon but such wasn't posted. Also there was no lifeguard adjacent to the scene but lifeguards on adjacent "beaches" within site. Also people expect safely in the parks as it's part of the brand image. Like others from the south one caller said it should be expected that gators are in any Florida body of water. However many of us aren't from Florida and not everyone watches "River Monsters".
RE Orlando Terrorist-there are several incidents that should or could have served as a warning. AS a 14 year old he faced criminal charges when, without provocation, he got up and just started beating on another student.
RE: Christina Grimmie-the shooter was so obscessed with her he had several plastic surgeries to improve his looks specifically for her. As an employee of Best Buy's "Geek Squad" fellow employees report he talked like thery were getting married. Played her music endlessly. Supposedly he "lost it" after Grimmie was reportedly involved with her producer/manager.
GATOR-Lavin says Disney likely in big legal trouble as Disney knew there were gators in the lagoon but such wasn't posted. Also there was no lifeguard adjacent to the scene but lifeguards on adjacent "beaches" within site. Also people expect safely in the parks as it's part of the brand image. Like others from the south one caller said it should be expected that gators are in any Florida body of water. However many of us aren't from Florida and not everyone watches "River Monsters".
RE Orlando Terrorist-there are several incidents that should or could have served as a warning. AS a 14 year old he faced criminal charges when, without provocation, he got up and just started beating on another student.
RE: Christina Grimmie-the shooter was so obscessed with her he had several plastic surgeries to improve his looks specifically for her. As an employee of Best Buy's "Geek Squad" fellow employees report he talked like thery were getting married. Played her music endlessly. Supposedly he "lost it" after Grimmie was reportedly involved with her producer/manager.
As a father I think knowng that he was found intact 10-15 yards away would make it much worse in a lot of ways. I would always question myself for not going out in the water for a little ways just to see if he was dropped...cannot even fathom what this family is going through
My old neighbors lost their one son (early 70s) in a traffic accident at boy scout camp on the way to Sunday mass. Problem was they never gave the scouts permission to drive him to mass. Sued the scouts. Lived in Bridgewater and retired to Loveladies. The parents will likely never get over but will justify that Disney should have posted signs at around the lagoon. With The Grand Floridian going for $500+ a night is should have been a no brainer. Disney had the money to post signs, put up a fence (was recommended earlier by a staffer), hunt or remove the gators, yada.
As soon as the service for the son is over thoughts will turn to a major lawsuit. Doesn't bring back the son but millions will take away 1/8 of 1% of the pain. If the parents have class they will work to see Disney and else revise safety procedures. I'm sure Disnery has already started to do so.
As soon as the service for the son is over thoughts will turn to a major lawsuit. Doesn't bring back the son but millions will take away 1/8 of 1% of the pain. If the parents have class they will work to see Disney and else revise safety procedures. I'm sure Disnery has already started to do so.
Disney already posting signs, but you know the lawyers are circling like vultures. The parents have probably gotten thousands of inquiries from various lawyers licking their chops.
As a native Floridian, I can vouch that everything @RU85inFla has said in this thread is correct.
Rule #1. If there is a body of water in the state of Florida bigger than a backyard, there are alligators in it.
Rule #2. See Rule #1.
I know it's difficult and borderline wrong to critique the behavior of parents in a tragedy, but little kids wading in the shallows are, indeed, prime targets for gators.
Also, it's my understanding that the father tried to pry the kid loose - and even suffered some cuts in the process. FWIW, in that situation the proper thing to do is get the gator by the tail and drag it away from the water. Its instinct to get into the water and get away from people is stronger than its prey instinct. It will let go of whatever it's got in an attempt to defend itself.
Rule #1. If there is a body of water in the state of Florida bigger than a backyard, there are alligators in it.
Rule #2. See Rule #1.
I know it's difficult and borderline wrong to critique the behavior of parents in a tragedy, but little kids wading in the shallows are, indeed, prime targets for gators.
Also, it's my understanding that the father tried to pry the kid loose - and even suffered some cuts in the process. FWIW, in that situation the proper thing to do is get the gator by the tail and drag it away from the water. Its instinct to get into the water and get away from people is stronger than its prey instinct. It will let go of whatever it's got in an attempt to defend itself.
Disney allowed swimming in the lagoon until new laws passed that would have required chlorination.
Gators were not on Disney's radar.
The signs said "no swimming." Not "Danger: Alligators." The boy was wading, not swimming.
Slam dunk lawsuit.
Gators were not on Disney's radar.
The signs said "no swimming." Not "Danger: Alligators." The boy was wading, not swimming.
Slam dunk lawsuit.
I'm not disagreeing that Disney has some liability, here.
I'm saying that just like everybody knows there are sharks in the ocean, so too should everybody know that there are alligators in every lake in Florida.
Yup, probably. I will say at Disney many people have incorrect assumptions about how controlled the built environment and landscapes are. And these poor souls were from Nebraska. Hell, I have family photos with my wife and then 1-year-old on that beach at the Grand Floridian, and while I'm sure I wouldn't let my kid wade in the water I'm also sure getting eaten by freaking alligators was the last thing on my mind when we were on the sand.
Terrible story.
Sure. I've spent countless hours in the Seven Seas Lagoon, although admittedly on sailboats, jet skis, etc. (and haven't been there at all since October of 2001).
But I've spent even more countless hours in other lakes in central Florida and have seen my share of the critters up close. So I get it. And I also get that a lot of people may not.
I think things may have changed over the years. My mind also plays tricks on me. However between two trips to Disney over the years (1976 and 1994ish) and a pair of tapes on Disney marketing towards 20-30 somethings (~1996) I showed in front of a half-befuddled MBA marketing class I vaguely remember Disney (monorail?) selling the lagoon and its beaches as a relaxing alternative to the Park-or after park/naptime option.
Again, if you live in 2016 Florida, Gators are always on the radar. However you aren't (and Disnerys brand reputation only makes things worse) the potential of being attacked by a gator within the confines of the park is inconceivable. The only gators most Nebraskians think about are those from Gainesville, FLA during, perhaps bowl season.
Pesonally if "Jaws" didn't do the job for me in 1976. The dead body or "River Monsters" (see my post above) would have me wary to begin with.
Again, if you live in 2016 Florida, Gators are always on the radar. However you aren't (and Disnerys brand reputation only makes things worse) the potential of being attacked by a gator within the confines of the park is inconceivable. The only gators most Nebraskians think about are those from Gainesville, FLA during, perhaps bowl season.
Pesonally if "Jaws" didn't do the job for me in 1976. The dead body or "River Monsters" (see my post above) would have me wary to begin with.
Just my opinion with respect to liability, I believe there is little to none.
Many beaches have no lifeguards. That means there is no lifeguard stupid, so swim at your own risk. A beach does not imply a lifeguard is required. The beach at the end of the block has no lifeguard. Two blocks up does.
There is no requirement to have signs. 99+% of the bodies of water with alligators have no sign, resorts included.
On the other hand, the parents are gonna get a ton of cash from Disney.
Many beaches have no lifeguards. That means there is no lifeguard stupid, so swim at your own risk. A beach does not imply a lifeguard is required. The beach at the end of the block has no lifeguard. Two blocks up does.
There is no requirement to have signs. 99+% of the bodies of water with alligators have no sign, resorts included.
On the other hand, the parents are gonna get a ton of cash from Disney.
Our first trip to Disney with the kids was 96, stayed at the Polynesian, they had no swimming signs posted, but clearly told you it was due to microbes or bacteria in the water that could get you sick.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleriasis
We lounged on the beach chairs once, but without swimming not much to care about. Every night is was down to the beach for the fireworks over the the magic kingdom and the boat parade in the lake. I have always known Disney paints the rosy side of everything. There is actually a wiki page which details some incidents and I would say coincidences related to people going to Disney.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_at_Walt_Disney_World
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleriasis
We lounged on the beach chairs once, but without swimming not much to care about. Every night is was down to the beach for the fireworks over the the magic kingdom and the boat parade in the lake. I have always known Disney paints the rosy side of everything. There is actually a wiki page which details some incidents and I would say coincidences related to people going to Disney.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_at_Walt_Disney_World
I was actually expecting much more from the wikipage. I think there were more serious incidents.
