OT: "It Hurts"

[RUforester72]

Thoughtful and heartfelt piece by Jarrett Paul, RU DB. Well done!

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/06/it-hurts-opinion.html

"Keep love within your heart. Don’t let hate blind our vision and cause us to forget our essence as people. We are so much more than our circumstances. Our history does not define us, what our ancestors experienced does not define us. If anything, it molded us into strong people who can withstand anything that this world throws at us. We must continue to love. We must continue to have hope. Because one day this will change."

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

We need to celebrate recruits like this. Sounds like he is alteady a grown man.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

That was excellent.

 

[beaced]

Thoughtful and heartfelt piece by Jarrett Paul, RU DB. Well done!

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/06/it-hurts-opinion.html

"Keep love within your heart. Don’t let hate blind our vision and cause us to forget our essence as people. We are so much more than our circumstances. Our history does not define us, what our ancestors experienced does not define us. If anything, it molded us into strong people who can withstand anything that this world throws at us. We must continue to love. We must continue to have hope. Because one day this will change."

OUTSTANDING.! Speaks nobly of responsibility and the rewards that one receives from it. I have personal knowledge of this. 25 years of directing an after school recreation program in NEWARK. Love, understanding and caring direction brought great reciprocation from so many of my "kids".Get phone calls to this day from grown men wanting to renew contact..

 

[RUevolution36]

Rutgers alumni and fans should all be very proud that people like Jarrett are repping the scarlet and white.

 

[BigWill]

'Change' is an ongoing thing in the USA.

Change is ongoing for the better constantly, but sometimes it isn't seen.

Charlie Scott was a frosh at UNC my frosh year, hoops. Charlie was the FIRST African American to be on scholarship in the ACC !
Meanwhile the KA fraternity on campus flew the stars and bars and had the portrait of Robert E Lee (the mythical 'founder' of the frat) over the fireplace. Also had "Old South Weekend", where the frat would grow beards, rent horses and Confederate Uni's and ride the horse around campus in mock Calvary charges.

My teammate at Manlius was the first African American to start for 3 years on the Army football team. Happy Birthday Today, Gummy ! Many more we hope as a cancer survivor.

Ernie Davis of Syracuse (so there you RUguys) was the first Heisman Trophy Winner (although I will always say that Jimmy Brown should have Won his Senior year.).

Take a look at Professional teams or ANY college football or hoops teams and what is their racial makeup. Lots of pub there, BUT there are more African Americans becoming Lawyers (not that we need more of them) or Doctors EVERY year than become athletes. A friend of mine in the ER in NJ that I worked at was a Grad of Da Ohigho Status Med School. We always argued about BIG football and the 'amateur' status of those in whatever the new name of Columbus Ohio was/is now. He was a big man, 6'7" and I always ass/u/med he was there on an athletic schollie. NOPE, his Mom pointed him to Medicine in Elementary school and she wouldn't accept anything less.

So, I forgot to post that he was African American.

 

[29PAS]

Well said, Jarrett. I just became a huge fan.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Wonderful piece. Doesn't need to be OT when our players represent us well off the field.

 

[ScarletCrimson]

Brilliant

 

[Kbee3]

Wonderful piece. Doesn't need to be OT when our players represent us well off the field.

So true.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

yes.. the start was strong and the ending was excellent but he takes the BLM line on every single example he brings up.

He is a good writer and it was obviously heartfelt... but not every example he brings up is as clear-cut as he makes it out to be.. and in the big picture it is not indicative of a problem so vast that black people should be making encounters with police worse due to irrational fears. The fear-mongering is making it worse.. not better.

 

[ClassOf02]

yes.. the start was strong and the ending was excellent but he takes the BLM line on every single example he brings up.

He is a good writer and it was obviously heartfelt... but not every example he brings up is as clear-cut as he makes it out to be.. and in the big picture it is not indicative of a problem so vast that black people should be making encounters with police worse due to irrational fears. The fear-mongering is making it worse.. not better.

Ugh.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Ugh.

what? you don't think he is a good writer?

Have some faith that he can have his opinion questioned without falling apart. I didn't go into details. I think everyone knows which cases are not as clear-cut as others.. not as clear-cut as George Floyd.

 

[ClassOf02]

what? you don't think he is a good writer?

Have some faith that he can have his opinion questioned without falling apart. I didn't go into details. I think everyone knows which cases are not as clear-cut as others.. not as clear-cut as George Floyd.

I don’t think you are the arbiter of what “everyone knows.”

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I don’t think you are the arbiter of what “everyone knows.”

While that is true enough, you do know what I mean and have not disputed it.

 

[RUevolution36]

i'm surprised it took this long for someone to come in this thread and comment on how Jarrett should feel or should think.

 

[RUScrew85]

While that is true enough, you do know what I mean and have not disputed it.

Seems "Ugh" was the extent of his argument.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Seems "Ugh" was the extent of his argument.

even if we assumed every time there is a police killing of a black person it is murder.. black murder victims are far more likely to be killed by black murderers than police.

from 2017 to 2020, the number of police shootings resulting in death to a black person runs from a high of 235 to a low of 209 with the number for 2020 sitting at 105

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

In 2018 there was nearly 3000 murders of black victims. 2600 of those were committed by black people, overwhelmingly male. 234 of the murderers were white.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

why is everyone so focussed on police killings when the risk of that is largely caused by the violence by blacks on blacks and others?

Why isn't this well-written story talking about how it hurts that he is 1000% more likely to be killed by another black man than he is by the police?

George Floyd is far and away the most clear-cut case of police murder. It could very well be that he had a massive heart attack during the arrest and it wasn't the knee on the neck.. but it clearly showed a total disregard for the man's life by at least one cop. The law probably makes that some form of manslaughter.

Walter Scott is the next most egregious example. About the only justification for shooting him in the back as he slowly jogged away after the scuffle with the police was that anyone who fights the police might mean they are a violent threat to the general public. Maybe he was stopped for a traffic violation, found there was an arrest warrant for unpaid child support.. and he was also a violent criminal and that's why he fought police and ran... but that's highly unlikely. The cop should have used his radio and/or his legs, not his weapon.

I won't go through every case.. but the next one you see mentioned most often is Breonna Taylor. The police executed a search warrant, were shot at and they returned fire. Breonna was an innocent victim... a victim of the criminal who shot at police.

The police are not the main problem. We have seen people here who are black or have black sons tell us they coach their sons on cooperating with police.. yet in virtually every case, with rare exceptions, what we see in these deaths caused by police is non-cooperation.

Wouldn't these stories all be much better if they were cases of people like Eric Garner cooperating, being arrested, remaining alive, and suing police for false arrest?

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

i'm surprised it took this long for someone to come in this thread and comment on how Jarrett should feel or should think.

So it is okay to completely agree with how he thinks and how he feels and encourage such thought processes.. but not to disagree on any element of it?

When he says this.. "our lives are being taken for granted right now"... do you agree? Do you take black lives for granted?

We don’t want to keep seeing our people get murdered wrongfully with video evidence and no justice being served. We don’t want to keep creating new hashtags every time it’s a new victim. We just want to feel like our lives have value and meaning in this world. Because Black lives truly matter. And that doesn’t take away from the existence of all the other lives in this world. But our lives are being taken for granted right now. Equality doesn’t cause damage. Racism and oppression do.​

 

[RUevolution36]

So it is okay to completely agree with how he thinks and how he feels and encourage such thought processes.. but not to disagree on any element of it?

When he says this.. "our lives are being taken for granted right now"... do you agree? Do you take black lives for granted?

We don’t want to keep seeing our people get murdered wrongfully with video evidence and no justice being served. We don’t want to keep creating new hashtags every time it’s a new victim. We just want to feel like our lives have value and meaning in this world. Because Black lives truly matter. And that doesn’t take away from the existence of all the other lives in this world. But our lives are being taken for granted right now. Equality doesn’t cause damage. Racism and oppression do.​

You can disagree with it, but that doesn't invalidate his feelings and the feelings of his friends, family, or community. That's why the dialogue needs to happen, instead of coming with a dismissive attitude and not trying to understand why he might feel this way.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

You can disagree with it, but that doesn't invalidate his feelings and the feelings of his friends, family, or community. That's why the dialogue needs to happen, instead of coming with a dismissive attitude and not trying to understand why he might feel this way.

Why talk about a "dismissive attitude" at all? What you are recommending is to say nothing unless you completely agree. Or pretending you completely agree. Why can't people appreciate the skill of his writing, recognize what he is saying, but voice disagreement with at least part of the message? What are you so afraid of? Everyone here is entirely free to be "dismissive" of the points I brought up. My feelings won't be hurt.

 

[Yeah Baby]

We all should be thinking and speaking just like this kid. Bravo.

 

[RUevolution36]

Why talk about a "dismissive attitude" at all? What you are recommending is to say nothing unless you completely agree. Or pretending you completely agree. Why can't people appreciate the skill of his writing, recognize what he is saying, but voice disagreement with at least part of the message? What are you so afraid of? Everyone here is entirely free to be "dismissive" of the points I brought up. My feelings won't be hurt.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. It's about being able to say...yeah, i don't agree, but let's talk to see why you feel that way. everyone has already picked sides on this topic and are hardening their stances because of resistance to listen to each other. there is plenty of data to back what Jarrett is feeling.

you've cited information about black on black crime. what you haven't mentioned is that, statistically, white people murder white people at somewhat similar rates (89% of victims are a result of black on black vs 81% of white on white - 2600/2925 vs 2677/3315) - homicides happen within communities.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

also, consider arrest rates - 1 in 3 people arrested for drug crime are black, despite being a small fraction of the population and drug usage rates being equal between black and white racial groups (weed in particular)

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/1114413-mj-report-rfs-rel1.pdf

in a DOJ survey, black people were twice as likely to be threatened with, or experienced use of force by police officers

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp15.pdf

if just focusing on police shootings - since the rate that whites & blacks have encounters with police are similar (~20%), but with 5x the population, you would expect that police shootings of blacks would happen at 1/5th the rate than that of whites, while it is more of a 3:2 ratio. this is data that shows that shooting deaths by police are happening disproportionately more amongst the black community than the white community.

 

[BigWill]

even if we assumed every time there is a police killing of a black person it is murder.. black murder victims are far more likely to be killed by black murderers than police.

from 2017 to 2020, the number of police shootings resulting in death to a black person runs from a high of 235 to a low of 209 with the number for 2020 sitting at 105

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

In 2018 there was nearly 3000 murders of black victims. 2600 of those were committed by black people, overwhelmingly male. 234 of the murderers were white.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

why is everyone so focussed on police killings when the risk of that is largely caused by the violence by blacks on blacks and others?

Why isn't this well-written story talking about how it hurts that he is 1000% more likely to be killed by another black man than he is by the police?

George Floyd is far and away the most clear-cut case of police murder. It could very well be that he had a massive heart attack during the arrest and it wasn't the knee on the neck.. but it clearly showed a total disregard for the man's life by at least one cop. The law probably makes that some form of manslaughter.

Walter Scott is the next most egregious example. About the only justification for shooting him in the back as he slowly jogged away after the scuffle with the police was that anyone who fights the police might mean they are a violent threat to the general public. Maybe he was stopped for a traffic violation, found there was an arrest warrant for unpaid child support.. and he was also a violent criminal and that's why he fought police and ran... but that's highly unlikely. The cop should have used his radio and/or his legs, not his weapon.

I won't go through every case.. but the next one you see mentioned most often is Breonna Taylor. The police executed a search warrant, were shot at and they returned fire. Breonna was an innocent victim... a victim of the criminal who shot at police.

The police are not the main problem. We have seen people here who are black or have black sons tell us they coach their sons on cooperating with police.. yet in virtually every case, with rare exceptions, what we see in these deaths caused by police is non-cooperation.

Wouldn't these stories all be much better if they were cases of people like Eric Garner cooperating, being arrested, remaining alive, and suing police for false arrest?

The actual number that is true is: 10. The number of unarmed African Americans unarmed that were shot by police in the entire US in 2019.
Harvard U study, check the circumstances of the 10 and the real number is even lower.

LESS than the number of African Americans killed in Chicago last weekend, or the previous weekend, yes by other African Americans. The issue is why the Chicago Mayor isn't hiring MORE Police or calling up the Illinois National Guard and placing them at every block/intersection where these Murders are taking place.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. It's about being able to say...yeah, i don't agree, but let's talk to see why you feel that way. everyone has already picked sides on this topic and are hardening their stances because of resistance to listen to each other. there is plenty of data to back what Jarrett is feeling.

you've cited information about black on black crime. what you haven't mentioned is that, statistically, white people murder white people at somewhat similar rates (89% of victims are a result of black on black vs 81% of white on white - 2600/2925 vs 2677/3315) - homicides happen within communities.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

also, consider arrest rates - 1 in 3 people arrested for drug crime are black, despite being a small fraction of the population and drug usage rates being equal between black and white racial groups (weed in particular)

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/1114413-mj-report-rfs-rel1.pdf

in a DOJ survey, black people were twice as likely to be threatened with, or experienced use of force by police officers

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp15.pdf

if just focusing on police shootings - since the rate that whites & blacks have encounters with police are similar (~20%), but with 5x the population, you would expect that police shootings of blacks would happen at 1/5th the rate than that of whites, while it is more of a 3:2 ratio. this is data that shows that shooting deaths by police are happening disproportionately more amongst the black community than the white community.

Police are involved in violent crime arrests of black people at 3.6X that of white people... factoring in the population differences. Now.. one side could argue that is because of over-policing while others could suggest that blacks commit violent crimes at a much higher rate than whites and still others could say that is because blacks are kept from benefitting from the economy while whites are not.

In any case, once you factor in arrests for violent crimes.. where police shootings are more likely to happen.. whites are actually shot by police MORE OFTEN than blacks in similar circumstances.

This story by a mathemetician in the Boston Globe actually argues against my point.. but she is guilty of exactly what she accuses the other side of in using such data. She doesn't have enough data to draw proper conclusions but it does not stop her.

But in order to later argue against this, she admits (I think the point speaks for itself):

In 2018, the rate of arrests for violent crime was 3.6 times higher for Black people than white people. So actually, the argument goes, Black people are underrepresented as victims of police killings, after controlling for the number of encounters.​

And that's just one of your examples.

Drug crimes? Who is more likely to be a drug dealer.. a white person or a black person? I have no idea but nor do you.. so such statements about rates on drug arrests have little value. Either don't do drugs or take the hit.. take the arrest.. don't flee or resist. Use your political power to change drug laws.. convince enough people it should be legal.

Your first example.. it doesn't matter what the white on white murder rate is when we are discussing a black person writing an opinion piece on the threat he feels from police killings. The threat to black men from the police and comparatively from other threats is on-point. What whites do to each other is irrelevant. But whites killing blacks would be.. though it is statistically insignificant... 234 compared to 2600 in the 2018 link I gave previously. Also shows almost double that of blacks killing whites... factor the population differences into that and whites fearing being murdered by a black person makes more sense than blacks fearing being killed by cops... neither makes much sense when you examine the numbers and overall risk. In any case, given how many more white people there are to blacks you can see the average homicide threat to a black person from a white person is very small.

Now.. this threat of police force thing.. that could be because of who complains and perception of same. A black person and white person could be treated in exactly the same fashion by police but if one of them complains and the other does not.. that would show up in such data. I suspect all this attention being paid to this issue now will result in many people, white and black and others complaining about the treatment they would have accepted as normal before George Floyd and all these anti-police protests. All you have to do is see young white people screaming in the face of police.. white and black police.. to see they will have problems in police interactions in the future.. and then complain about it.

There's roughly 330M people in the USA.. about 43M blacks. If 10 unarmed black people were killed by cops... that's a 1 in 4M chance. Roughly 200 blacks a year get shot by cops. Roughly 1 in 200K chance of being shot by a cop (looking at that I do not like those odds very much). You want to manage that risk? Don't be involved in violent crime. Odds of getting struck by lightning.. 1 in 700K.

Why do we have to tear down everything because of perceived threats that are proven very unlikely to occur? This defunding the police.. that will only increase violence and risk overall and we already see that happening. So opinion pieces.. as well written as this one is.. as emotional as this one is.. might actually just be contributing to making the world LESS SAFE for young black men and everyone else.

That is why I make the effort to disagree.

 

[RUScrew85]

even if we assumed every time there is a police killing of a black person it is murder.. black murder victims are far more likely to be killed by black murderers than police.

from 2017 to 2020, the number of police shootings resulting in death to a black person runs from a high of 235 to a low of 209 with the number for 2020 sitting at 105

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

In 2018 there was nearly 3000 murders of black victims. 2600 of those were committed by black people, overwhelmingly male. 234 of the murderers were white.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

why is everyone so focussed on police killings when the risk of that is largely caused by the violence by blacks on blacks and others?

Why isn't this well-written story talking about how it hurts that he is 1000% more likely to be killed by another black man than he is by the police?

George Floyd is far and away the most clear-cut case of police murder. It could very well be that he had a massive heart attack during the arrest and it wasn't the knee on the neck.. but it clearly showed a total disregard for the man's life by at least one cop. The law probably makes that some form of manslaughter.

Walter Scott is the next most egregious example. About the only justification for shooting him in the back as he slowly jogged away after the scuffle with the police was that anyone who fights the police might mean they are a violent threat to the general public. Maybe he was stopped for a traffic violation, found there was an arrest warrant for unpaid child support.. and he was also a violent criminal and that's why he fought police and ran... but that's highly unlikely. The cop should have used his radio and/or his legs, not his weapon.

I won't go through every case.. but the next one you see mentioned most often is Breonna Taylor. The police executed a search warrant, were shot at and they returned fire. Breonna was an innocent victim... a victim of the criminal who shot at police.

The police are not the main problem. We have seen people here who are black or have black sons tell us they coach their sons on cooperating with police.. yet in virtually every case, with rare exceptions, what we see in these deaths caused by police is non-cooperation.

Wouldn't these stories all be much better if they were cases of people like Eric Garner cooperating, being arrested, remaining alive, and suing police for false arrest?

You're getting pilloried by or Leftists, right?

You're right. Don't let them bother you.

 

[NotInRHouse]

A player writes a nice apoltical piece about a current event.

The usual suspects come in and politicize it and criticize him.

After, of course, the mods asked to keep politics OFF the board.

It's really amazing to see the same 5-10 people never be able to help themselves and prove the exact point Jarrett made so eloquently.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

You're getting pilloried by or Leftists, right?

You're right. Don't let them bother you.

no.. they have a point. I get it. The young man wrote a great opinion piece. I just think conventional wisdom needs to be challenged. This kind of reasoning is becoming too much like dogma. It needs be doubted. tested, questioned. And a young man as obviously intelligent as the author should be able to understand that.

Someone above said: "We all should be thinking and speaking just like this kid"... like insisting on the uniformity of thought and speech is a good thing.

 

[RUevolution36]

no.. they have a point. I get it. The young man wrote a great opinion piece. I just think conventional wisdom needs to be challenged. This kind of reasoning is becoming too much like dogma. It needs be doubted. tested, questioned. And a young man as obviously intelligent as the author should be able to understand that.

Someone above said: "We all should be thinking and speaking just like this kid"... like insisting on the uniformity of thought and speech is a good thing.

i thought we were having a nice discussion until Screw came in and tried to stoke a bit of a fire...

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

i thought we were having a nice discussion until Screw came in and tried to stoke a bit of a fire...

yes.. there doesn't have to be a "winner".

 

[NorthernKnight]

You can disagree with it, but that doesn't invalidate his feelings and the feelings of his friends, family, or community. That's why the dialogue needs to happen, instead of coming with a dismissive attitude and not trying to understand why he might feel this way.

I think that’s the point here.

it’s ok to say that our player wrote a heartfelt eloquent essay and also say that you wish he hadn’t used some of the examples and BLM talking points.

This whole “all or nothing”, fully support everything said or you’re a racist stuff is what’s alienating a boatload of people.

i hope it’s what people like President Holloway are talking about. Let’s have the tough, detailed, well informed conversations. Right now it’s mostly lecture, shout down & shaming.

with all that said, it’s great that our players are speaking their mind. That’s what America is all about...freedom of thought, speech and action.

it’s a shame that we are losing sight of this right now and the mob is seeking to snuff out any opinion that doesn’t conform with theirs.

 

[e5fdny]

A conversation is a conversation. It doesn’t always have to be an argument.

I wish more of us on here realized this.

We don’t all have to agree and we also have to realize if we don’t agree it doesn’t make the other person wrong.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

A conversation is a conversation. It doesn’t always have to be an argument.

I wish more of us on here realized this.

We don’t all have to agree and we also have to realize if we don’t agree it doesn’t make the other person wrong.

I think it does have to be an argument.. but that most people think argument = fight..

It has even crept into definitions of "argument"...

- an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.

- a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.

 

[RUnTeX]

A conversation is a conversation. It doesn’t always have to be an argument.

I wish more of us on here realized this.

We don’t all have to agree and we also have to realize if we don’t agree it doesn’t make the other person wrong.

Why do I feel like I've read these words of wisdom before, like in the past 24 hours, in another thread....LOL :Wink:

 

[e5fdny]

Why do I feel like I've read these words of wisdom before, like in the past 24 hours, in another thread....LOL :Wink:

It's been cross pollinated in a few places. :)