OT: Looks like gas is going up 23 cents a gallon in NJ

[Upstream]

The estate tax mainly hits the wealthy, and is therefore the kind of progressive tax I usually support (as opposed to the sales tax, which is regressive). That being said, the threshold seems a little low and should probably be bumped up to at least $1 million.

The difference between $675K and $1MM is not that meaningful, especially in a state where housing prices push a lot of homeowners over the threshold. The federal threshold is over $10MM. NJ should ideally match the Federal threshold. Or at least $5MM.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

How anyone can be on board with this tax is crazy to me. Do you understand how much we are taxed in this state? How can anyone in their right mind say this is ok? They have enough money to do what they need to do. Seriously, when is enough, enough?

Because some people are addicted to spending your money.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

The estate tax mainly hits the wealthy, and is therefore the kind of progressive tax I usually support (as opposed to the sales tax, which is regressive). That being said, the threshold seems a little low and should probably be bumped up to at least $1 million.

But you support the gas tax, which is at least as regressive as the sales tax, and probably more so. Sound ideology.

Also, how do you reconcile your first and second sentences? Do you consider $675,000 of net worth to be "wealthy?"

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

We will be paying 37.5 cents a gallon starting Friday so that the Union can get raises... er... "fix the roads, LOL".

 

[LevaosLectures]

But you support the gas tax, which is at least as regressive as the sales tax, and probably more so. Sound ideology.

Also, how do you reconcile your first and second sentences? Do you consider $675,000 of net worth to be "wealthy?"

I said raise the threshold.
I said "mainly."
A gas consumption tax has the added benefit of taxing something that is harmful to the planet itself.

 

[mdk01]

Why should non-dependent heirs get tax free money that they never spent a second working for? It's far more ethical than taxing earnings. Like I said, the people most likely to need an inheritance (children and maybe grandchildren) get off paying nothing. This is the absolute last place we should be looking to cut taxes. Again, who gives a crap if someone's niece gets a little less free money?

So one can't pass along even $5000. without the state intervening?

OK, comrade.

 

[rutgersdave]

So there still will be a $750. inheritance tax on the $5000. bequest I have going to my niece in my will. Lovely.

And of course the full increase in the gas tax kicks in immediately while the cut in sales tax is phased in over 18 months.

You can move out of NJ to avoid the $750'inheritance tax.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

They were hoping you had forgotten about that by now.

Fixing our roads is important, but that is not what this is about. They are trying to trick people into thinking all this extra money will only be used for fixing roads, when we all know very little if any of it will be used for that.

I think people might be less upset it the bill had a cause that 100% of the funds can only be used to fix roads and nothing else.

But, like I said before they do NOT need this tax hike to fix the roads they just need to cut the budget and use that money to fix them.

But they rather just cut our paychecks instead.

I read through the entire bill and could not find where it says this new tax revenue is dedicated only to the TTF.

 

[rutgersdave]

And case in point that our roads are not crappy. They are in the middle/end of repaving Route 36 in Hazlet. There was not a thing wrong with that road. Seems NJ roads are on some sort of fixed schedule for repaving, regardless of whether they need it or not. Would love to be a paving contractor on the NJ list.

Are you in the Mafia or plan on joining?

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I said raise the threshold.
I said "mainly."
A gas consumption tax has the added benefit of taxing something that is harmful to the planet itself.

I know you did.

That's not how population wealth curves look. There are more people who have between $675,000 and $1m than there who have more than $1m. I would go on to argue that $1mm of net worth in NJ is not even approaching "wealthy." Its barely enough to comfortably retire here. If you wanted to hit the "wealthy" the federal exemption of $5.45mm is much more realistic in NJ. Or at least something north of $3mm.

Classic last point coming from a liberal. Screw the poor, they should either stop driving or buy Teslas. I guess the need to tell people how to spend their money exceeds the need to help those at the bottom rungs of the economic ladder. This conservative would argue there are much better ways to incentivize reduced gas consumption than an extremely regressive tax on the people least able to do anything about it.

 

[rutgersdave]

The difference between $675K and $1MM is not that meaningful, especially in a state where housing prices push a lot of homeowners over the threshold. The federal threshold is over $10MM. NJ should ideally match the Federal threshold. Or at least $5MM.

You probably get closer to 1.35 million exemption since when one of the parent passes away, that one can pass on 675 to the kids and when the final parent passes, that's another $675,000

 

[nukem]

Why should non-dependent heirs get tax free money that they never spent a second working for? It's far more ethical than taxing earnings. Like I said, the people most likely to need an inheritance (children and maybe grandchildren) get off paying nothing. This is the absolute last place we should be looking to cut taxes. Again, who gives a crap if someone's niece gets a little less free money?

Why should we even have an inheritance tax? This is money that has already been taxed. Why should the government have the chance to tax this money a second time that I've earned. I should be free to do with it what I like. Just because they made a ridiculous tax like this, doesn't mean it's right.

 

[eceres]

You probably get closer to 1.35 million exemption since when one of the parent passes away, that one can pass on 675 to the kids and when the final parent passes, that's another $675,000

Which is great if the assets are mostly liquid. If a large amount of the asset is tied in property then this becomes hard to do as described.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

The Primary Sponsors of the bill A12 to increase the fuel tax are:

Vincent Prieto- Democrat
John McKeon-Democrat
Gary Schar-Democrat
Shavonda Sumter -Democrat
Ralph Caputo- Democrat
Valerie Huttle- Democrat
Thomas Giblin- Democrat

Need I say more?

 

[mildone]

This conservative would argue there are much better ways to incentivize reduced gas consumption than an extremely regressive tax on the people least able to do anything about it.

Such as? I mean that as genuine curiosity; not as argument.

 

[mildone]

Why should we even have an inheritance tax? This is money that has already been taxed. Why should the government have the chance to tax this money a second time that I've earned. I should be free to do with it what I like. Just because they made a ridiculous tax like this, doesn't mean it's right.

It does seem unfair to double-tax the same money. What forms of taxes would you support?

 

[JRZEER]

Too bad the money will more than likely not go to where its supposed to go.

Yup. More 100k jobs for more politically connected individuals. In 5 years roads will be still be a disaster. Just like he lottery money was going to improve schools across the state. Yeah, good one.

 

[DontTedonMe]

It's not a done deal quite yet.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/06/christie_democrats_negotiating_lower_gas_tax.html

I don't mind it, personally. A .23 gas tax combined with a 1% across the board sales tax cut would, I'm pretty sure, lower my overall tax burden in NJ.

But I spend a lot and have no regular commute. For people who don't spend a lot and who have long commutes, it would probably be a net increase in tax burden.

Depending on how the law is written, it could be a big, although temporary, boost to employment in NJ since the gas tax revenue would be put into the Transportation Trust Fund, not the general fund. So it has that going for it. Maybe.

This joker thinks we're going to see the sales tax reduction. Lol. Why do they wait 18 months? So fool's like him forget and just say "aww shucks" when it never happens.

 

[mildone]

This joker thinks we're going to see the sales tax reduction. Lol. Why do they wait 18 months? So fool's like him forget and just say "aww shucks" when it never happens.

A joker and fool, eh? Pretty lame insults. Is that the best you can do, oh oracular one?

You'd think such a brave and deeply thoughtful purveyor of ad-hominem attacks would be so much better at it.

 

[RUsSKii]

Why should non-dependent heirs get tax free money that they never spent a second working for? It's far more ethical than taxing earnings. Like I said, the people most likely to need an inheritance (children and maybe grandchildren) get off paying nothing. This is the absolute last place we should be looking to cut taxes. Again, who gives a crap if someone's niece gets a little less free money?

Because the government has no business double-taxing one's legally hard-earned money, nor do they have any business running their grubby fingers through it once they've become a corpse who can't appeal/fight the former. We get taxed more than enough just by living and breathing here.

 

[RUScrew85]

Could happen if we legalize and tax pot and blow. And hookers, of course.

They still piss it away for their own benefit.

 

[mildone]

They still piss it away for their own benefit.

Mostly that's probably true. Probably spend a decent percentage of it on legal hookers and blow.

 

[LevaosLectures]

Because the government has no business double-taxing one's legally hard-earned money, nor do they have any business running their grubby fingers through it once they've become a corpse who can't appeal/fight the former. We get taxed more than enough just by living and breathing here.

For the person getting it, it hasn't been earned. Far from it. Far more ethical to tax a free windfall for some trust fund brat than actual working man's income.

It's hard to think of a more just tax than the inheritance tax. Stop whining.

 

[LevaosLectures]

It does seem unfair to double-tax the same money. What forms of taxes would you support?

It's not double taxed. What a silly argument.

If you hired your niece and paid her a salary with that same money, she'd owe tax on it.

But because she gets it for nothing, hands off?

You guys haven't thought this through.

 

[mildone]

It's not double taxed. What a silly argument.

If you hired your niece and paid her a salary with that same money, she'd owe tax on it.

But because she gets it for nothing, hands off?

You guys haven't thought this through.

Excuse me, but I wasn't asking you. [winking]

 

[DJ Spanky]

It's not exactly a guarantee that will happen. It's more likely that the money will be wasted on something else. Then we'll have crappy roads and expensive gas.

Yep, just as has happened in the past.

Yes shipping costs will be affected. That 1% sales tax drop will be made up for and probably more, by increased shipping costs pawned off on the customer.

Of course we'll never hear about that, will we?

This is bad, they grabbed from the transportation fund to pay for pet projects, now they scream poverty. Some of this money will be diverted from this fund in a couple years to cover their incompetent spending.

Rob Peter to pay Paul. Most likely funds currently earmarked for transportation will now be diverted because there's "dedicated" funds for transportation.

 

[RUsSKii]

For the person getting it, it hasn't been earned. Far from it. Far more ethical to tax a free windfall for some trust fund brat than actual working man's income.

It's hard to think of a more just tax than the inheritance tax. Stop whining.

LOL okay, then. So in essence, the government can then start taxing your holiday gifts to your cousins/niece/nephew, birthday/wedding gifts to friends/family, and perhaps even your wife's engagement/wedding rings as well. I mean after all, they're all just free windfalls voluntarily transferred by you to those who could conceivably be trust fund brats and haven't demonstrably worked to earn them, right?

 

[Upstream]

LOL okay, then. So in essence, the government can then start taxing your holiday gifts to your cousins/niece/nephew, birthday/wedding gifts to friends/family, and perhaps even your wife's engagement/wedding rings as well. I mean after all, they're all just free windfalls voluntarily transferred by you to those who could conceivably be trust fund brats and haven't demonstrably worked to earn them, right?

Hate to tell you, but they already tax gifts: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...oyed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes

 

[Upstream]

Which is great if the assets are mostly liquid. If a large amount of the asset is tied in property then this becomes hard to do as described.

Harder to do, but still fairly easy: just establish a credit shelter trust in your will.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Such as? I mean that as genuine curiosity; not as argument.

As the consumer level, the most obvious would be tax incentives on the purchase of electric vehicles.

You can also accomplish it at the corporate level, by creating corporate disincentives to the production of gas powered vehicles, and/or incentives on the production and sale of electric vehicles. Offer tax perks to companies if >10% of the vehicles they sell are electric. Even better than production credits.

 

[LevaosLectures]

So one can't pass along even $5000. without the state intervening?

OK, comrade.

Jesus youre a crybaby

 

[LevaosLectures]

LOL okay, then. So in essence, the government can then start taxing your holiday gifts to your cousins/niece/nephew, birthday/wedding gifts to friends/family, and perhaps even your wife's engagement/wedding rings as well. I mean after all, they're all just free windfalls voluntarily transferred by you to those who could conceivably be trust fund brats and haven't demonstrably worked to earn them, right?

I'm saying in the universe of injustices, this is pretty far down the list. What do you care? You'll be dead.

 

[RUsSKii]

Hate to tell you, but they already tax gifts: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...oyed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes

To be fair, all of the examples I used can be excluded as noted by the IRS FAQ, unless the gifts to non-spouses are collectively worth more than $14,000.

I was arguing this more as someone philosophically opposed to a "death tax", which is exactly what this is.

 

[vkj91]

I'm saying in the universe of injustices, this is pretty far down the list. What do you care? You'll be dead.

where would it rank compared to the injustice of not gicing abbott districts 33k per kid to piss away?

 

[RUsSKii]

I'm saying in the universe of injustices, this is pretty far down the list. What do you care? You'll be dead.

I care about the freedom to decide to whom ALL of my hard-earned and already-taxed earnings goes upon my passing.

 

[RUevolution36]

I'm saying in the universe of injustices, this is pretty far down the list. What do you care? You'll be dead.

how very narrow minded. hopefully, you would be thinking about...

1. ensuring your beneficiaries are able to pay any taxes levied
2. minimizing the tax liability
3. holy crap it matters...i paid my income taxes on the money i made, i pay taxes on the stuff i buy, i pay taxes on the property i own...so how is it fair to tax me again because i'm dead? the gov't has gotten it's grubby hands on my money enough times, can't i die in peace?

 

[RUevolution36]

To be fair, all of the examples I used can be excluded as noted by the IRS FAQ, unless the gifts to non-spouses are collectively worth more than $14,000.

I was arguing this more as someone philosophically opposed to a "death tax", which is exactly what this is.

there is also a lifetime exemption rule that if you go over the 14k, you can file a form with the IRS that will exempt any additional against the lifetime exemption.

 

[MORRISCOUNTY]

This is absolutely shocking. What happened.

How did a $.23 rise in the gas tax with offsets in reducing the estate tax turn into this.


If you asked me 5 years ago what the most important move that Trenton could do it would be to increase the estate tax exemption. Why? To stop the wealthy from leaving this state.


If you asked me 2 years ago what the most important move that Trenton could do it would be to increase the estate tax exemption. Why? To stop the wealthy from leaving this state.


You do not punish the wealthy and expect good things to happen.

We do not need a reduction in the sales tax. The people of this state were used to paying 7% and will not even notice the change.

The Republicans were supposed to fight for this estate tax reduction. Every Republican lined up and said they would fight for this. What happened?

They will raise this sales tax back to 7% in 2 years when there is no money for everything else.

 

[MORRISCOUNTY]

I will say it again, this is shocking.

There appears to be zero leadership in Trenton. These people have no vision whatsoever.

Our state is suffering much worse than other states on a relative basis in this last recovery and these pols seem to do nothing to make this state a better place to do business or live.

They have no vision.

 

[Upstream]

To be fair, all of the examples I used can be excluded as noted by the IRS FAQ, unless the gifts to non-spouses are collectively worth more than $14,000.

That's only because you are poor. If you were rich you'd be buying your niece a Mercedes she saw on the "December to Remember" TV commercial. And you'd have to pay tax on the gift.