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OT: New US News College Rankings

RUchip

All Conference
Oct 15, 2010
4,675
1,478
113
Rutgers comes in at #70.

I thought the merge to become a medical school and being a Big 10 school would improve our ratings. However, we keep dropping. I know these rankings are based off many different factors which don't make much sense, but this seems the most popular ranking system people refer to. I can't see how the likes of Florida, Syracuse, and Clemson are higher ranked than RU.
 
Actually that's a gain of 2 places over last year. Nothing to brag about but at least the recent trend of annual declines has stopped. Hopefully the positive impact of the merger and the creation of the residential honors college will help RU climb back up in the rankings.
 
Rutgers comes in at #70.

I thought the merge to become a medical school and being a Big 10 school would improve our ratings. However, we keep dropping. I know these rankings are based off many different factors which don't make much sense, but this seems the most popular ranking system people refer to. I can't see how the likes of Florida, Syracuse, and Clemson are higher ranked than RU.

Big Ten Rankings 2016

Northwestern #12
Michigan #27
Illinois #44
Wisconsin #44
Penn State #50
Ohio State #54
Purdue #60
Maryland #60
Rutgers #70
Minnesota #71
Michigan State #82
Iowa #82
Indiana #86
Nebraska #111

Big Ten Rankings 2009

Northwestern #14
Michigan #25
Illinois #38
Wisconsin #38
Penn State #48
Maryland #54
Ohio State #57
Rutgers #59
Purdue #64
Iowa #64
Minnesota #71
Michigan State #71
Indiana #75
Nebraska #91

We've only been passed by Purdue, but we've fallen 11 spots. Our highest rank was #45 in 1996, so that's 25 spots in 20 years.

The rankings drop of many publics seems to coincide with the meteoric rise of big private universities like BU and Northeastern that have gamed the system. UConn passed us for the first time in 2011, FYI.
 
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Rutgers comes in at #70.

I thought the merge to become a medical school and being a Big 10 school would improve our ratings. However, we keep dropping. I know these rankings are based off many different factors which don't make much sense, but this seems the most popular ranking system people refer to. I can't see how the likes of Florida, Syracuse, and Clemson are higher ranked than RU.
Why would you pick Clemson as an example? "Clemson has been in the top 25 for the past seven years." US News. Perhaps a little research. I am a proud RU grad but very different schools. Assuming a school is inferior because it is nestled in the south is a mistake.
 
All these rankings are subjective.

- Are they comparing the graduate programs as well as undergraduate?
- schools like NYU, Columbia, and even Michigan may have an advantage over schools in more rural areas.
- Do they take into consideration what the avg alum makes 5 years after graduation? 10 years?
- RU alums actually do pretty well in this questions. Of course NYU and Columbia alums do as well.
- Do they look at undergrads acceptance rates to graduate schools?
- How about alumni networking?
- Rutgers has always trailed in this. I have friends from private schools where there is true alumni networking outreach to fill jobs or help out of work alums.
- SAT / ACT scores?
- RU should be on the high end for this among publics. Of course as a public you may have to take some kids that may not score as high on a standardized test for other reasons. Also, RU has the deal with the community colleges where kids get auto admitted if they do well.
- Campus enviornment
- I think this has improved sine I was in school in the early 90s where the dorms were old with no cable tv. With new apartments on campus I think this is improved. The Greek system lacks the institutional support since the chapters are basically on their own to obtain houses. The more rural schools may have an advantage where they have land to build a greek row or new dorms.
- commuter school
- Rutgers has a lot of commuters which can hurt the ranks
 
Why would you pick Clemson as an example? "Clemson has been in the top 25 for the past seven years." US News. Perhaps a little research. I am a proud RU grad but very different schools. Assuming a school is inferior because it is nestled in the south is a mistake.

Clemson is an example because there was a lot of publicity several years ago about how they gamed the rankings.
 
Rutgers comes in at #70.

I thought the merge to become a medical school and being a Big 10 school would improve our ratings. However, we keep dropping. I know these rankings are based off many different factors which don't make much sense, but this seems the most popular ranking system people refer to. I can't see how the likes of Florida, Syracuse, and Clemson are higher ranked than RU.

I live in Florida and my wife has two degrees from UF I can tell you that by every measure, except faculty in a few departments, Florida surpasses RU. It's exceptionally well funded (the key factor), has a top med school and strong law school (ahead of RU's) and a very high percentage of students in FL high schools have it as their dream school. Beautiful campus, great facilities, top sports, etc. And unlike RU, it gets a lot of upper middle class kids from FL and elsewhere. The private school in FL that is almost always the top school in FL in terms of placing kids in top colleges every year a bunch of students go to UF despite having parents with the means to have multiple college choices. That doesn't happen from the top prep schools in NJ. Also, Florida has by far the fewest colleges per capita in the US making UF even more of an attraction. According to stats just released, I believe that in the entire RU system only 140 valedictorians/salutatorians are entering RU this year. I would guess (just based on stats published in a South Florida paper) that UF's incoming class has at least three or four times that many and probably more).
 
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I live in Florida and my wife has two degrees from UF I can tell you that by every measure, except faculty in a few departments, Florida surpasses RU. It's exceptionally well funded (the key factor), has a top med school and strong law school (ahead of RU's) and a very high percentage of students in FL high schools have it as their dream school. Beautiful campus, great facilities, top sports, etc. And unlike RU, it gets a lot of upper middle class kids from FL and elsewhere. My daughter just graduated from and my son currently attends a private school in South FL that is almost always is the top school in FL in terms of placing kids in top colleges and every year a bunch of students go to UF despite having parents with the means to have multiple college choices. That doesn't happen from the top prep schools in NJ. Also, Florida has by far the fewest colleges per capita in the US making UF even more of an attraction. According to stats just released, I believe that in the entire RU system only 140 valedictorians/salutatorians are entering RU this year. I would guess (just based on stats published in a South Florida paper) that UF's incoming class has at least three or four times that many and probably more).
Florida is a different world.

Also, can you be any more elitist? Geez.
 
Here's my question. If it's so easy to game the system, why doesn't RU game the system to improve it's ranking? What's the downside of doing that?
 
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Here's my question. If it's so easy to game the system, why doesn't RU game the system to improve it's ranking? What's the downside of doing that?
Because we'd be slammed for it. We don't need bad publicity.
 
these my school is better than your school arguments go on forever
Rutgers suffers in two categories and has little to do with education
They measure total financial resources and the amount deployed annually. Then Alumni donations
Another category is correlating " expert opinion" I dont see it here but you score well by how many people join the peace core. Another was the amount of Fullbright scholars you graduate. To get to the Goddard Sspace Center the path of least resistance are their " space program " type courses
Then retention rates and graduation rates thru graduation
There seems little , in here, to determine where the best education is offerred........anyway thats ho

Because we'd be slammed for it. We don't need bad publicity.
w i see it
 
RU likes to do things the hard way.
Well, my question really applies to all schools, right? If gaming the system is so easy to do, why don't all schools do it? I would think all schools would like higher rankings.
 
Northeastern has gone from #162 to #39. Insane. It's all baloney.

If you think North-freaking-eastern is one of the top 40 universities in the country, feel free to send your kid there.
Here's an article about how they gamed the lists:

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/2/
My brother's alma mater. Bogus but I can understand how though. It's a school that focuses on professional education vs liberal arts. I think grads have a tendency to find jobs more easily in this economy.
 
Here's the criteria used by USNWR. Go to their web page for a full explanation of each :

Undergraduate academic reputation: 22.5 percent

Retention : 22.5 percent

Faculty resources: 20 percent

Student selectivity: 12.5 percent

Financial resources: 10 percent

Graduation rate performance: 7.5 percent

Alumni giving rate: 5 percent

 
The REAL way to assess school rankings is through difficulty of admission, which comes from Naviance stats in HS websites. I have had 2 kids go through the process and, as far as B1G schools should be ranked:
Northwestern
Michigan
Wisconsin
Illinois
Penn St/Maryland (close)
Rutgers/tOSU (close)
Minny
Indiana
Iowa
Michigan St (much worse than you would think)
Nebraska

Penn State and Maryland are a little tougher to get in than Rutgers but that being said, it is difficult to get into the business, engineering and pharmacy schools at Rutgers.[/QUOTE]
 
Here's the criteria used by USNWR. Go to their web page for a full explanation of each :

Undergraduate academic reputation: 22.5 percent

Retention : 22.5 percent

Faculty resources: 20 percent

Student selectivity: 12.5 percent

Financial resources: 10 percent

Graduation rate performance: 7.5 percent

Alumni giving rate: 5 percent
How do you measure a reputation? It's bogus.
 
How do you measure a reputation? It's bogus.

Undergraduate academic reputation (22.5 percent): The U.S. News ranking formula gives significant weight to the opinions of those in a position to judge a school's undergraduate academic excellence. The academic peer assessment survey allows top academics – presidents, provosts and deans of admissions – to account for intangibles at peer institutions, such as faculty dedication to teaching.

To get another set of important opinions on National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges, we also surveyed 2,200 counselors at public high schools, each of which was a gold, silver or bronze medal winner in a recent edition of the U.S. News Best High Schools rankings, as well as 400 college counselors at the largest independent schools. The counselors represent nearly every state and the District of Columbia.

Each academic and counselor surveyed was asked to rate schools' academic programs on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). Those who didn't know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know."

The score used in the rankings is the average score of those who rated the school on the 5-point scale; "don't knows" are not counted as part of the average. In order to reduce the impact of strategic voting by respondents, we eliminated the two highest and two lowest scores each school received before calculating the average score.

The academic peer assessment score in this year's rankings is based on the results from surveys in spring 2014 and spring 2015. Previously, only the most recent year's results were used.

Both the Regional Universities and Regional Colleges rankings rely on one assessment score, by the academic peer group, for this measure in the rankings formula. In the case of National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges, the academic peer assessment accounts for 15 percentage points of the weighting in the ranking methodology, and 7.5 percentage points go to the high school counselors' ratings.

The results from the three most recent years of counselor surveys, from spring 2013, spring 2014 and spring 2015, were averaged to compute the high school counselor reputation score. This was done to increase the number of ratings each college received from the high school counselors and to reduce the year-to-year volatility in the average counselor score.

Ipsos Public Affairs collected the data in spring 2015. Of the 4,530 academics who were sent questionnaires, 40 percent responded. This response rate is down very slightly from the 42 percent response rate to the surveys conducted in spring 2014 and spring 2013. The counselors' one-year response rate was 7 percent for the spring 2015 surveys.
 
Big Ten Rankings 2016
Northwestern #12
Michigan #27
Illinois #44
Wisconsin #44
Penn State #50
Ohio State #54
Purdue #60
Maryland #60
Rutgers #70
Minnesota #71
Michigan State #82
Iowa #82
Indiana #86
Nebraska #111

Big Ten Rankings 2009

Northwestern #14
Michigan #25
Illinois #38
Wisconsin #38
Penn State #48
Maryland #54
Ohio State #57
Rutgers #59
Purdue #64
Iowa #64
Minnesota #71
Michigan State #71
Indiana #75
Nebraska #91

We've only been passed by Purdue, but we've fallen 11 spots. Our highest rank was #45 in 1996, so that's 25 spots in 20 years.

The rankings drop of many publics seems to coincide with the meteoric rise of big private universities like BU and Northeastern that have gamed the system. UConn passed us for the first time in 2011, FYI.
Good post. Here are our US news rankings from 1996-2016. If anyone can fill in the blanks, please do so.

1996 #45, #12 public U
1998 #?, #16 public U
2000 #?, #22 public U
2001 #?, #24 public U
2004 #58/60
2005 #58
2006 #60
2007 #60
2009 #64
2012 #?, #24 public
2013 #69, #25 public U
2014 #70
2015 #72
2016 #70
 
I live in Florida and my wife has two degrees from UF I can tell you that by every measure, except faculty in a few departments, Florida surpasses RU. It's exceptionally well funded (the key factor), has a top med school and strong law school (ahead of RU's) and a very high percentage of students in FL high schools have it as their dream school. Beautiful campus, great facilities, top sports, etc. And unlike RU, it gets a lot of upper middle class kids from FL and elsewhere. My daughter just graduated from and my son currently attends a private school in South FL that is almost always is the top school in FL in terms of placing kids in top colleges and every year a bunch of students go to UF despite having parents with the means to have multiple college choices. That doesn't happen from the top prep schools in NJ. Also, Florida has by far the fewest colleges per capita in the US making UF even more of an attraction. According to stats just released, I believe that in the entire RU system only 140 valedictorians/salutatorians are entering RU this year. I would guess (just based on stats published in a South Florida paper) that UF's incoming class has at least three or four times that many and probably more).
The one measure which is one of the most important is ROI on their college education and Rutgers is in the top 20. Florida students might also want to go to UF because of the football.

I graduated Rutgers in the 1970's when it was probably in the top 30's.
 
You'd think ROI, research facilities and expenditures and number of students going on to masters programs would be higher on the methodology web than alumni giving and peer review.
 
Rutgers comes in at #70.

I thought the merge to become a medical school and being a Big 10 school would improve our ratings.

US ranking are undergrad only.

There is a different rankings for research and for those we are ranked in the Top 20 and Top 25 in the nation, you know what counts towards AAU. The rankings that the Big Ten care about.
 
Clemson is an example because there was a lot of publicity several years ago about how they gamed the rankings.

Yes, exactly. It's no secret that Clemson administrators studied the how the metrics are calculated and made adjustments specifically to raise theirs (with spectacular results).
 
I would think things that should really matter in rankings and therefore what the incoming students should actually care about are:

Resources available to students(quality & number of) - rec centers, libraries,dorms/living spaces, dining halls, student centers, computer halls, touters, advisors
Quality of students - standardized scores, avg HS GPA, rhodes scholars (or something similar), diversification, other measures of student achievements while on campus
Availability of scholarship & aid
Cost of the school , housing, and services
Average Income earned by students 5, 10, 20 years after graduation
- adjusted for regional
Number of and quality of internships, career fairs, full-time opportunities, networking events found at the school or nearby school
Ratings of professors, advisors

Why would incoming students care about alumni giving, reputation is not measurable and in these rankings its almost a self-fulfilling prophecy, even graduation rates seem somewhat meaningless and more individual circumstance
 
A group of university presidents were asked to rank Princeton's undergraduate business program and they gave it very high marks. There is no undergraduate business program at Princeton. No matter. That's the halo effect that distorts these rankings.
 
The REAL way to assess school rankings is through difficulty of admission, which comes from Naviance stats in HS websites. I have had 2 kids go through the process and, as far as B1G schools should be ranked:
Northwestern
Michigan
Wisconsin
Illinois
Penn St/Maryland (close)
Rutgers/tOSU (close)
Minny
Indiana
Iowa
Michigan St (much worse than you would think)
Nebraska

Penn State and Maryland are a little tougher to get in than Rutgers but that being said, it is difficult to get into the business, engineering and pharmacy schools at Rutgers.
[/QUOTE]

Not so, RU GPA and SAT is higher, and that is what every big state school is looking at.
 
What's your opinion of US News?
I'm not a fan of their college ranking system. There are better evaluators out there and the USNWR methodology has been challenged, however, it has become the Kelly Blue Book of college ranking services, for better or worse , so it can't just be ignored.
 
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A group of university presidents were asked to rank Princeton's undergraduate business program and they gave it very high marks. There is no undergraduate business program at Princeton. No matter. That's the halo effect that distorts these rankings.
wow...had no idea this happened but not surprised
 
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