OT: New US News College Rankings

[coldsprings]

The US News rankings are a business. I know because I taught at a "ranked" regional university for many years. Each year we had to pay US News a fee to use their ranking in our promo literature. There are many head-scratchers on the list which are absurd such as Fordham > Rutgers.

Here is another list with far different results: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/best-universities-united-states-2016

 

[Upstream]

Undergraduate academic reputation (22.5 percent): The U.S. News ranking formula gives significant weight to the opinions of those in a position to judge a school's undergraduate academic excellence. The academic peer assessment survey allows top academics – presidents, provosts and deans of admissions – to account for intangibles at peer institutions, such as faculty dedication to teaching.

To get another set of important opinions on National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges, we also surveyed 2,200 counselors at public high schools, each of which was a gold, silver or bronze medal winner in a recent edition of the U.S. News Best High Schools rankings, as well as 400 college counselors at the largest independent schools. The counselors represent nearly every state and the District of Columbia.

Each academic and counselor surveyed was asked to rate schools' academic programs on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). Those who didn't know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know."

The score used in the rankings is the average score of those who rated the school on the 5-point scale; "don't knows" are not counted as part of the average. In order to reduce the impact of strategic voting by respondents, we eliminated the two highest and two lowest scores each school received before calculating the average score.

The academic peer assessment score in this year's rankings is based on the results from surveys in spring 2014 and spring 2015. Previously, only the most recent year's results were used.

Both the Regional Universities and Regional Colleges rankings rely on one assessment score, by the academic peer group, for this measure in the rankings formula. In the case of National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges, the academic peer assessment accounts for 15 percentage points of the weighting in the ranking methodology, and 7.5 percentage points go to the high school counselors' ratings.

The results from the three most recent years of counselor surveys, from spring 2013, spring 2014 and spring 2015, were averaged to compute the high school counselor reputation score. This was done to increase the number of ratings each college received from the high school counselors and to reduce the year-to-year volatility in the average counselor score.

Ipsos Public Affairs collected the data in spring 2015. Of the 4,530 academics who were sent questionnaires, 40 percent responded. This response rate is down very slightly from the 42 percent response rate to the surveys conducted in spring 2014 and spring 2013. The counselors' one-year response rate was 7 percent for the spring 2015 surveys.

I never gave much thought to the methodology of polling high school counselors about college reputations. Even assuming that high school counselors are knowledgeable about colleges ( as a function of their job to help students select the right college), I would assume that they are only knowledgeable about a subset of colleges that are of most interest to their students. For the most part, their knowledge does not extend very far beyond the geographic region in which they are located.

So a counselor in Florida, rating schools on a 5 point scale, might give Harvard, Princeton, and Yale a 5 based on reputation alone. They might give Florida, UF, Ga Tech, and Georgia a 4. And then give regional colleges like UCF or USF a 3. But it is pretty unlikely that counselors in Florida would know enough about Rutgers, Maryland, UMass, etc, to make an assessment.

The pubic colleges in the northeast would mostly be rated by counselors in the Northeast. And they may be inclined to give Harvard, Princeton, and Yale a 5 based on reputation (just like the counselors in Florida). But then they would have another set of schools, like NYU, Amherst, Wesleyan, etc., that they would be inclined to give a 4. And then they would give 3s to the major public universities. That doesn't mean that counselors in the Northeast think their local public universities are inferior to how Florida counselors consider their local universities. It is just with the large number of other private schools in the northeast, there is more competition for the rating, and therefore the scale slips.

It would be interesting to see what guidance USNWR gives the counselors to keep the rating scales equivalent across the country. But I am dubious that a 4 in Florida means the same as a 4 in South Dakota or a 4 in Massachusetts.

 

[mikefla]

I admit I am a sucker for the ranking stuff. It used to be(back in the 1980s) the Gorman Report was all there was.
1-USNWR has us at 70...there is no way in hell Clemson or Cuse should be ahead of us.
2- I will search around,,,there was a study that had us #47 in the WORLD

In the USNWR my other school Cornell is #15,,,down from #12
i could fill a book with the similarities I see between Cornell and Rutgers
I am VERY happy with my choice

 

[e5fdny]

If I had a nickel, @knightfan7 ... ;)

 

[e5fdny]

I live in Florida and my wife has two degrees from UF I can tell you that by every measure, except faculty in a few departments, Florida surpasses RU. It's exceptionally well funded (the key factor), has a top med school and strong law school (ahead of RU's) and a very high percentage of students in FL high schools have it as their dream school. Beautiful campus, great facilities, top sports, etc. And unlike RU, it gets a lot of upper middle class kids from FL and elsewhere. The private school in FL that is almost always the top school in FL in terms of placing kids in top colleges every year a bunch of students go to UF despite having parents with the means to have multiple college choices. That doesn't happen from the top prep schools in NJ. Also, Florida has by far the fewest colleges per capita in the US making UF even more of an attraction. According to stats just released, I believe that in the entire RU system only 140 valedictorians/salutatorians are entering RU this year. I would guess (just based on stats published in a South Florida paper) that UF's incoming class has at least three or four times that many and probably more).

And don't forget the cars in the parking lot at Ben Hill Griffin are much nicer than the ones at Rutgers Stadium.

 

[mikefla]

http://cwur.org/2016.php

The World University Rankings have Rutgers 43rd in the WORLD!
Rutgers #43
Minn 45
ohio state 46
dartmouth 50
penn Sate 52
U Fla 59
UMd 68
vandy 71
brown 87


I shall FOREVER swear by this publication hehehe

 

[mikefla]

I live in Florida and my wife has two degrees from UF I can tell you that by every measure, except faculty in a few departments, Florida surpasses RU. It's exceptionally well funded (the key factor), has a top med school and strong law school (ahead of RU's) and a very high percentage of students in FL high schools have it as their dream school. Beautiful campus, great facilities, top sports, etc. And unlike RU, it gets a lot of upper middle class kids from FL and elsewhere. The private school in FL that is almost always the top school in FL in terms of placing kids in top colleges every year a bunch of students go to UF despite having parents with the means to have multiple college choices. That doesn't happen from the top prep schools in NJ. Also, Florida has by far the fewest colleges per capita in the US making UF even more of an attraction. According to stats just released, I believe that in the entire RU system only 140 valedictorians/salutatorians are entering RU this year. I would guess (just based on stats published in a South Florida paper) that UF's incoming class has at least three or four times that many and probably more).

I also live in Florida and just retired from teaching at UF a few years ago
and
I agree with you on all counts.
Since I got here in 1982 when RU was substantially ABOVE UF
U Florida has done all the right things
U Florida has actively TRIED to up its standing in every way imaginable
from # of NMSQT scholars, to # of Rhodes Scholars
to even departmental reputation UF has strived to UP its image and reputation
in every way possible
all the while fielding MANY nationally ranked teams
from swimming, to football, womens soccer, gymnastic, softball, track


they have a great sports tradition

"As of March 4, 2014, five athletic programs for the University of Florida are ranked No. 1 in the nation. Men’s basketball,
men and women’s indoor track,
men’s swimming and diving, and
softball all top the polls. If the women’s gymnastics team didn’t have the audacity to be ranked – gasp – second, there would be a sixth at the summit."

 

[rutgersdave]

And don't forget the cars in the parking lot at Ben Hill Griffin are much nicer than the ones at Rutgers Stadium.

Is that one of the criteria for the USNWR ranking?

 

[rutgersdave]

I blame you then. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

He should have stayed in school.

 

[RUBand]

I live in Florida and my wife has two degrees from UF I can tell you that by every measure, except faculty in a few departments, Florida surpasses RU. It's exceptionally well funded (the key factor), has a top med school and strong law school (ahead of RU's) and a very high percentage of students in FL high schools have it as their dream school. Beautiful campus, great facilities, top sports, etc. And unlike RU, it gets a lot of upper middle class kids from FL and elsewhere. The private school in FL that is almost always the top school in FL in terms of placing kids in top colleges every year a bunch of students go to UF despite having parents with the means to have multiple college choices. That doesn't happen from the top prep schools in NJ. Also, Florida has by far the fewest colleges per capita in the US making UF even more of an attraction. According to stats just released, I believe that in the entire RU system only 140 valedictorians/salutatorians are entering RU this year. I would guess (just based on stats published in a South Florida paper) that UF's incoming class has at least three or four times that many and probably more).

Curedbywinning pointed out the number of valedictorians/salutatorians entering RU (in comparison to other schools, and in particular, UF. When I was in grad school at Michigan I read about the % of their incoming freshman class who were either valedictorian, or salutatorian, and was amazed. Very high numbers.

 

[kapyoche]

Has Rutgers gotten easier? When I was there in the 80s, it was hard.

 

[Jim_from_RU]

Has Rutgers gotten easier? When I was there in the 80s, it was hard.

It's not "easier", the school is just bigger.

 

[ImBadRU]

Rutgers is 31 in research rankings. That one matters.

 

[RU848789]

I also live in Florida and just retired from teaching at UF a few years ago
and
I agree with you on all counts.
Since I got here in 1982 when RU was substantially ABOVE UF
U Florida has done all the right things
U Florida has actively TRIED to up its standing in every way imaginable
from # of NMSQT scholars, to # of Rhodes Scholars
to even departmental reputation UF has strived to UP its image and reputation
in every way possible
all the while fielding MANY nationally ranked teams
from swimming, to football, womens soccer, gymnastic, softball, track


they have a great sports tradition

"As of March 4, 2014, five athletic programs for the University of Florida are ranked No. 1 in the nation. Men’s basketball,
men and women’s indoor track,
men’s swimming and diving, and
softball all top the polls. If the women’s gymnastics team didn’t have the audacity to be ranked – gasp – second, there would be a sixth at the summit."

Florida is a very good school. So is Rutgers. IMO, you can likely take from about #25 to about #75 in most of the rankings and actually find not much difference, overall, unless you're looking for something very specific, like strength in a particular major or graduate program. Sure the top 5-10 are clearly "better" than this 2nd tier (25-75) and this second tier is clearly better than schools below maybe 125 or so, but all the chest-thumping and/or gnashing of teeth over 20-30 spots in some highly biased ratings systems is silliness.

Like politics, measuring a university's worth is often very local. I'm not an expert in many things, such as overall college ratings, but I am an expert in engineering and I work with enough colleagues who are experts in fields like chemistry and biology to know that Rutgers is significantly better than UF in these fields. How do I know that? It's simple, really. My Company is near the top of the corporate heap in the assembled brainpower in these disciplines and we recruit Rutgers heavily for all three and don't recruit Florida at all - and we recruit nationally, including schools like Stanford, MIT, Princeton, Northwestern, Berkeley, PSU, Virginia, Michigan, etc (and the Rutgers grads more than hold their own).

 

[rurahrah000]

I live in Florida and my wife has two degrees from UF I can tell you that by every measure, except faculty in a few departments, Florida surpasses RU. It's exceptionally well funded (the key factor), has a top med school and strong law school (ahead of RU's) and a very high percentage of students in FL high schools have it as their dream school. Beautiful campus, great facilities, top sports, etc. And unlike RU, it gets a lot of upper middle class kids from FL and elsewhere. The private school in FL that is almost always the top school in FL in terms of placing kids in top colleges every year a bunch of students go to UF despite having parents with the means to have multiple college choices. That doesn't happen from the top prep schools in NJ. Also, Florida has by far the fewest colleges per capita in the US making UF even more of an attraction. According to stats just released, I believe that in the entire RU system only 140 valedictorians/salutatorians are entering RU this year. I would guess (just based on stats published in a South Florida paper) that UF's incoming class has at least three or four times that many and probably more).

Same thing can be said for University of Michigan. I would not be surprised if Ohio State University is in a similar situation as well.

 

[RUchip]

Why would you pick Clemson as an example? "Clemson has been in the top 25 for the past seven years." US News. Perhaps a little research. I am a proud RU grad but very different schools. Assuming a school is inferior because it is nestled in the south is a mistake.

Has nothing to do with the south. I live in the south. So perhaps don't assume and you're wrong they aren't top 25. Perhaps a little research.

 

[RUchip]

I live in Florida and my wife has two degrees from UF I can tell you that by every measure, except faculty in a few departments, Florida surpasses RU. It's exceptionally well funded (the key factor), has a top med school and strong law school (ahead of RU's) and a very high percentage of students in FL high schools have it as their dream school. Beautiful campus, great facilities, top sports, etc. And unlike RU, it gets a lot of upper middle class kids from FL and elsewhere. The private school in FL that is almost always the top school in FL in terms of placing kids in top colleges every year a bunch of students go to UF despite having parents with the means to have multiple college choices. That doesn't happen from the top prep schools in NJ. Also, Florida has by far the fewest colleges per capita in the US making UF even more of an attraction. According to stats just released, I believe that in the entire RU system only 140 valedictorians/salutatorians are entering RU this year. I would guess (just based on stats published in a South Florida paper) that UF's incoming class has at least three or four times that many and probably more).

Didn't know that. Thanks for sharing

 

[BobRU2000]

Has nothing to do with the south. I live in the south. So perhaps don't assume and you're wrong they aren't top 25. Perhaps a little research.

CLEMSON — Clemson University is ranked among the top 25 national public universities for the eighth consecutive year, according to U.S.News & World Report’s annual guide to “America’s Best Colleges” for 2016.

Not sure what else to say? That was the topic? Correct?