Speaking of statins, I’m amazed at what a low statin dose did for my numbers…
OT: oh oh oh Ozempic !
- Thread starter Plum Street
- Start date
Blockbuster Since most of our country is obese this will be a big one
And statins have amazing anti-inflammatory properties which provide additional health benefits. They are essentially magic pills! :)
Seems to be the best in class! Data rules the day. However, a second generation of these products are coming soon.
Have addressed this before, but there is a battle going on right now between Big Pharma, which is happy to promote and sell these drugs because they make a lot of money, and medical practitioners, including doctors, nurses, PAs, dieticians, etc. that are focusing more on the root cause of the problem-ultra processed food. A loud proponent of the latter is the book Good Energy by Casey and Calley Means. Big Pharma has the upper hand right now, because we know that it is easier for most people to take a drug than it is to make lifestyle and diet changes, particularly when ultra processed food is highly palatable and not satiating, driving those who cannot control the urge to eat to eat more, causing obesity.
There are two ways of addressing this (1) Eat a diet consisting of whole foods high in protein and exercise; (2) Medicine that helps you restrict your calories. Many people are too busy to exercise regularly, but they could find lots of ways to get some extra movement in by taking stairs instead of elevators, parking further from the store, etc., but I digress.
The dolt in this thread has mocked people and thinks this is funny that obese people lack willpower. They don't. There is something different in their gut-brain interaction.
Interesting article in Scientific American on this, linked below, with some quotes- and this one nails the problem for obese people:
When GLP-1 released from the gut latches on to the vagus nerve, the nerve sends signals up the brain stem to the nucleus tractus solitarius (NTS), a bundle of sensory neurons deep in the brain. The NTS is “the first place that [receives] all incoming satiety signaling from the gut,” Hayes says. “It’s like a processing hub for energy-balance control.”
Because of its short lifespan, it’s unlikely that natural GLP-1 produced in the intestines reaches high enough concentrations in the brain to affect satiety. But the NTS doesn’t just relay incoming satiety signals from the gut—it also produces GLP-1 itself. Although the details of the mechanism are not yet fully understood, researchers have found that the primary source of GLP-1 in the brain is preproglucagon (PPG) neurons in the NTS. When activated, they act like an emergency brake at the end of the meal, flooding the brain with GLP-1 to send the message to stop eating. This effectively shuts down areas in the brain involved in feeding response, homeostatic controls, energy balance and decision-making about food—as well as the liking and wanting of food and impulsive behaviors associated with eating. For people with obesity, these neurons and hormonal activity might be a clue—one that the new drugs are bringing to light.
Compared with the naturally occurring hormone, the drugs have a stronger structure that better withstands degradation and allows them to be bioactive for hours—the newest formulas can last up to a week. This gives them the potential to act on the brain and stimulate those receptors for longer periods, Mojsov says"
So, while I may have come out strongly against such drugs in past posts, for some, they may need a GLP-1 boost that their bodies cannot naturally produce. For the pharma bros, they should celebrate and not mock these people. It seems to be some sort of chemical imbalance that impacts signalling between the gut and brain.
This is similar to other brain behaviors that react to pharmaceuticals:
"Like Hall, some people using GLP-1 receptor agonists report not only a decreased desire for food but reduced cravings for alcohol, nicotine, drugs, online shopping, nail picking—the list goes on. These effects are driving a spate of research into possible overlapping circuitry linking compulsive behaviors, appetite and satiety."
The tide has turned, and Big Pharma is in the driver seat. The question is, what will the long term impacts and side effects be of such drugs?
As I noted above, most people can't find the time or desire to exercise regularly. In the research article linked below, and many other research articles, namely by George A. Brooks, PhD at Cal Berkeley have shown that high intensity exercise increase GLP-1 (and lactate in the blood), which inhibits appetite. Incidentally, I have observed that even while fasting, after a long and intense mountain bike ride exceeding 90% max heart rate for a good portion of the ride, I am not hungry.
From the linked article: "High-intensity exercise inhibits appetite, in part, via alterations in the peripheral concentrations of the appetite-regulating hormones acylated ghrelin, active glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), and active peptide tyrosine-tyrosine (PYY)."
So, people can make a choice, exercise hard/eat less, or take a drug. It's easier to take the drug. I would not judge those who choose the latter. The more I have read have convinced me that some people need some extra help to suppress their desire to eat too much.
Ozempic Quiets Food Noise in the Brain—But How?
Blockbuster weight-loss drugs are revealing how appetite, pleasure and addiction work in the brain
Greater lactate accumulation following an acute bout of high-intensity exercise in males suppresses acylated ghrelin and appetite postexercise
High-intensity exercise inhibits appetite, in part, via alterations in the peripheral concentrations of the appetite-regulating hormones acylated ghrelin, active glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), and active peptide tyrosine-tyrosine (PYY). Given lactate ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
While in general I agree with your philosophy, just make a conscious decision to change your lifestyle, eat better and eat lesson. However, sometimes you just need help. I was able to lose 16 pounds with lifestyle changes. However, I was stuck and was down to trying trying to eat 1200-1500 calories a day to lose additional weight. That just isn't enough for me. I was waking up in the middle of the night starving, get the shakes when I tried to exercise at the gym, etc. Been on Wegovy for a month and still on the ramp up curve for dosage but have lost 10 additional pounds. Sometimes it is not as simple as just saying change your lifestyle.Have addressed this before, but there is a battle going on right now between Big Pharma, which is happy to promote and sell these drugs because they make a lot of money, and medical practitioners, including doctors, nurses, PAs, dieticians, etc. that are focusing more on the root cause of the problem-ultra processed food. A loud proponent of the latter is the book Good Energy by Casey and Calley Means. Big Pharma has the upper hand right now, because we know that it is easier for most people to take a drug than it is to make lifestyle and diet changes, particularly when ultra processed food is highly palatable and not satiating, driving those who cannot control the urge to eat to eat more, causing obesity.
There are two ways of addressing this (1) Eat a diet consisting of whole foods high in protein and exercise; (2) Medicine that helps you restrict your calories. Many people are too busy to exercise regularly, but they could find lots of ways to get some extra movement in by taking stairs instead of elevators, parking further from the store, etc., but I digress.
The dolt in this thread has mocked people and thinks this is funny that obese people lack willpower. They don't. There is something different in their gut-brain interaction.
Interesting article in Scientific American on this, linked below, with some quotes- and this one nails the problem for obese people:
When GLP-1 released from the gut latches on to the vagus nerve, the nerve sends signals up the brain stem to the nucleus tractus solitarius (NTS), a bundle of sensory neurons deep in the brain. The NTS is “the first place that [receives] all incoming satiety signaling from the gut,” Hayes says. “It’s like a processing hub for energy-balance control.”
Because of its short lifespan, it’s unlikely that natural GLP-1 produced in the intestines reaches high enough concentrations in the brain to affect satiety. But the NTS doesn’t just relay incoming satiety signals from the gut—it also produces GLP-1 itself. Although the details of the mechanism are not yet fully understood, researchers have found that the primary source of GLP-1 in the brain is preproglucagon (PPG) neurons in the NTS. When activated, they act like an emergency brake at the end of the meal, flooding the brain with GLP-1 to send the message to stop eating. This effectively shuts down areas in the brain involved in feeding response, homeostatic controls, energy balance and decision-making about food—as well as the liking and wanting of food and impulsive behaviors associated with eating. For people with obesity, these neurons and hormonal activity might be a clue—one that the new drugs are bringing to light.
Compared with the naturally occurring hormone, the drugs have a stronger structure that better withstands degradation and allows them to be bioactive for hours—the newest formulas can last up to a week. This gives them the potential to act on the brain and stimulate those receptors for longer periods, Mojsov says"
So, while I may have come out strongly against such drugs in past posts, for some, they may need a GLP-1 boost that their bodies cannot naturally produce. For the pharma bros, they should celebrate and not mock these people. It seems to be some sort of chemical imbalance that impacts signalling between the gut and brain.
This is similar to other brain behaviors that react to pharmaceuticals:
"Like Hall, some people using GLP-1 receptor agonists report not only a decreased desire for food but reduced cravings for alcohol, nicotine, drugs, online shopping, nail picking—the list goes on. These effects are driving a spate of research into possible overlapping circuitry linking compulsive behaviors, appetite and satiety."
The tide has turned, and Big Pharma is in the driver seat. The question is, what will the long term impacts and side effects be of such drugs?
As I noted above, most people can't find the time or desire to exercise regularly. In the research article linked below, and many other research articles, namely by George A. Brooks, PhD at Cal Berkeley have shown that high intensity exercise increase GLP-1 (and lactate in the blood), which inhibits appetite. Incidentally, I have observed that even while fasting, after a long and intense mountain bike ride exceeding 90% max heart rate for a good portion of the ride, I am not hungry.
From the linked article: "High-intensity exercise inhibits appetite, in part, via alterations in the peripheral concentrations of the appetite-regulating hormones acylated ghrelin, active glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), and active peptide tyrosine-tyrosine (PYY)."
So, people can make a choice, exercise hard/eat less, or take a drug. It's easier to take the drug. I would not judge those who choose the latter. The more I have read have convinced me that some people need some extra help to suppress their desire to eat too much.
Ozempic Quiets Food Noise in the Brain—But How?
Blockbuster weight-loss drugs are revealing how appetite, pleasure and addiction work in the brainwww.scientificamerican.com
Greater lactate accumulation following an acute bout of high-intensity exercise in males suppresses acylated ghrelin and appetite postexercise
High-intensity exercise inhibits appetite, in part, via alterations in the peripheral concentrations of the appetite-regulating hormones acylated ghrelin, active glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), and active peptide tyrosine-tyrosine (PYY). Given lactate ...
We agree 100%, if I was not clear. I may give the same thing a shot if I cannot succeed with diet and exercise to get to what I consider a healthy weight. 1200-1500 calories per day can be torture, especially for someone who is still working, has a stressful job and other things in life pulling at them that may cause them to feel hungry and the need to "eat more."
By BMI standards, I "should" be 30-35 lbs lighter. I had a DEXA scan done, and (not bragging), the tech pointed out that I have a high amount of lean (muscle) mass, and reasonably, I could stand to lose at most another 10-13 lbs. But like you, that has proven to be a challenge, even eating a strict diet of high protein, low carbs and low fat. Carbs (bad ones) are particularly problematic, and too much saturated fat is not healthy either.
This segment with Peter Attia, MD and David Allison, PhD is quite interesting and on point. At one point in the discussion, Dr. Attia presses Dr. Allison about losing 10 lbs and the ethical considerations of doing so. This is cued up to the discussion of GLP-1 agonists and lasts about 25-30 minutes. It's a good listen.
The comments below the video are quite harsh, and there are a number of people screaming to "just eat healthy food and exercise." There are a lot of those people out there, and I am one of them, but we'll see how that goes.
The government, perhaps starting with middle and high school health classes could do a much better job of promoting education and a healthier food environment. Remove junk food from cafeterias and school vending machines. Serve healthier food.
30-35 pounds more to lose? Sounds like you are a good Wegovy or Zepbound candidate.
J/K! BMI is a bit iffy. Good guideline, but not something to blindly follow.
Just a couple other notes. I also exercise 3-4 times each week, once with a trainer and work full. I'm 69. Had one doctor tell me I needed to reduce my calories and exercise more. I looked at puzzled. I work full time, work out 3-4 times each week and down to 1200-1500 calories. Where am I going with that? He also said, according to the chart, I needed to get down to 170 lbs. I haven't been 170 since high school and played baseball at RU at around 200. While I agreed I needed to lose weight, lets be realistic with the targets. Basically I set my goals in tiers. I started at 279. My first goal was 265. Next was 255. Now my goal is 245 and I'm at 253. Needless to say I chose another doctor.
I have been on Mounjaro for 12 months now. I have been Type 2 diabetic for 15 years. My a1C initially was 13.8 when I was diagnosed. Yeah, that is high. I was at 270 pounds on a 6’2” big frame. My family believed that love is measured in the food consumed prepared by our mothers and grandmothers.
Since I started the journey on this drug, I have learned how to eat, what to avoid, what to eat, what not, when to eat, when to fast. It has been an interesting experience for sure.
I am now at 203 pounds. My a1C is now 5.8. My waist is 36 inches.
Everyone is different. Not all respond the same to Mounjaro. I have donated most of my clothes to Goodwill since they don’t fit anymore. I am off ALL of my blood pressure meds.
I have never felt better as an adult.
I wish all of you the best.
SG
Since I started the journey on this drug, I have learned how to eat, what to avoid, what to eat, what not, when to eat, when to fast. It has been an interesting experience for sure.
I am now at 203 pounds. My a1C is now 5.8. My waist is 36 inches.
Everyone is different. Not all respond the same to Mounjaro. I have donated most of my clothes to Goodwill since they don’t fit anymore. I am off ALL of my blood pressure meds.
I have never felt better as an adult.
I wish all of you the best.
SG
Do you think you can continue to use the drug for the rest of your life? How did it affect your digestion system ? Sounds like you’re at the right weight or close to it.
That is an incredible success story. And that Southern cooking is so hard to resist.
Congrats! Amazing success story.
This is still being figured out. Some folks move to a lower dose and continue the therapy. Some folks discontinue after they are at their target weight long enough - for the body to get accustomed to it and for the diet to become ingrained.
My prescription is covered partially by Medicare. The injections are shipped directly to me in a styrofoam container and contain a 12 week supply. I started on 2.5mg dosage. One injection per week. After the initial dosage, my PCP increased my dosage to 5mg for 12 weeks. Then we went to 7.5mg dosage, now I am using a 10mg injection. By increasing the dosage gradually, my body adjusted to most of the side effects of Mounjaro that many people experience.
As to whether I will stay on the 10mg dosage forever, I think not. I really don’t want to lose too much more weight; although it might be nice to get to 195 pounds. As an old offensive lineman(68) I haven’t been below 200 since age 14. I believe that once I hit my weight goal, and am keeping my a1C at or below 7, then reducing my dosage to 5mg might be a good strategy. My doctor and I will have that discussion in a few months.
Everyone is different. I know that it has worked for me. I started on this medical improvement journey with the goal of lowering my a1C. Losing weight gradually has been a nice bonus.
Jason Fung is a great source of info. He is big on fasting. But he gives some great info on how GLP-1 Agonists work and controlling hunger.
I'll add my own observances.
I'm 52 and I started using compound semaglutide (generic Ozempic ingredient) from one of the online pharmacies exactly a month ago.
I'm 6' 4" and was 233. I actually weighed less than when I was in college (I was 240 my soph yr as a walk-on TE) but the challenge of losing weight these days was daunting. Losing 10 lbs took months of regimented dieting and exercise. Low carb diets is the only thing that really worked for me but that is not long-term sustainable.
So I started the semaglutide (self injected using a syringe). No real weight loss the first two weeks- I lost 2 lbs. When I stepped up the dosage two weeks ago, it really picked up. A coffee and a some yogurt or eggs for breakfast and I didnt feel the need to eat until dinner. I've lost 8 lbs in the last two weeks. There is less inclination to snack and to drink alcohol (one beer is more than enough when I would normally down 2 in an hour).Side effects are some fatigue when going out to run ( I would normally run about 4 miles but am struggling to run 2.5 in the last week) but that might be related to the decreased calorie intake.
My plan is to lose another 8 lbs (to 215) and to stay on until New Years Day using maintenance dosage to maintain 215 lbs and then get off semaglutide using a sustainable diet and exercise plan in 2025. No one has done long term studies on using Ozempic on non-diabetics so I don't want to stay on too long.
I'm 52 and I started using compound semaglutide (generic Ozempic ingredient) from one of the online pharmacies exactly a month ago.
I'm 6' 4" and was 233. I actually weighed less than when I was in college (I was 240 my soph yr as a walk-on TE) but the challenge of losing weight these days was daunting. Losing 10 lbs took months of regimented dieting and exercise. Low carb diets is the only thing that really worked for me but that is not long-term sustainable.
So I started the semaglutide (self injected using a syringe). No real weight loss the first two weeks- I lost 2 lbs. When I stepped up the dosage two weeks ago, it really picked up. A coffee and a some yogurt or eggs for breakfast and I didnt feel the need to eat until dinner. I've lost 8 lbs in the last two weeks. There is less inclination to snack and to drink alcohol (one beer is more than enough when I would normally down 2 in an hour).Side effects are some fatigue when going out to run ( I would normally run about 4 miles but am struggling to run 2.5 in the last week) but that might be related to the decreased calorie intake.
My plan is to lose another 8 lbs (to 215) and to stay on until New Years Day using maintenance dosage to maintain 215 lbs and then get off semaglutide using a sustainable diet and exercise plan in 2025. No one has done long term studies on using Ozempic on non-diabetics so I don't want to stay on too long.
Thats a crazy high starting dosage. I started at .25mg for 2 weeks and am on .5 mg and it seems to be working at that level (although tolerance builds quickly I've heard). Is mounjaro the same compound as Ozempic?
Ostensibly yes. In reality is was one online zoom call with a physician's assistant followed by a prescription they filled and shipped with dosage schedules.
One more video. Ted Naiman is another MD who is open-minded about GLP-1 agonists, but his primary focus is on making better food choices to feel full. He and a MD from Europe have an app called Hava that provides "satiety per calorie." Basically, high protein/low fat foods will have higher satiety per calorie, as will bulky low calorie foods such as carrots and celery. Some people have found success with this approach. Naiman has an interesting background- his undergraduate degree is in mechanical engineering. He also only does body weight exercise and calisthenics. This video is cued up to where he talked about GLP-1 agonists and different eating strategies to feel full faster.
I have same comment on dosage. I'm using Wegovy. 1st month was 0.25 dose. Did'nt lose any weight. Next month 0.5. Lost a couple pounds. Now I'm 2 weeks into 1.0 and down 6 lbs. Next dosage is 1.4, then 1.7.
Good plan. We all need to realize that we need less and less food as we age. I got back down to my target weight of 225 in 2018 (almost 6'8"). I weigh myself every other day and stick to a narrow range (223-227). If I hit 222, I get an extra treat. If I hit 228, I pull back on my routine. Anyway, over the past 6 years, I have reduced what is in my daily dietary plan to stay within this range. I'm sure I will need to do the same in the future.
Mounjaro vs Ozempic: How do they compare?
Official answer: Overview Mounjaro and Ozempic are medicines approved to help control blood sugar levels in adults with type 2 diabetes...
www.drugs.com
Good summary of differences, including dosages.
Weight loss drugs sold online offer cheaper alternative to Ozempic, Wegovy. Are they safe?
Patients have found compounded semaglutide to be a cheaper, accessible GLP-1, but health experts warn of risks tied to the non-FDA-approved drugs.
www.usatoday.com
Very concerning. For a real and hilarious take on the compounding, if anyone has Paramount plus, this episode of South Park is art imitating life and the other way around. In the plot, Cartman's parents can't afford Ozempic or Wegovy's price, so the Doctor prescribes "Lizzo," the body positivity artist. Cartman's friends form a compounding operation, and chaos ensues. It's very well done.Weight loss drugs sold online offer cheaper alternative to Ozempic, Wegovy. Are they safe?
Patients have found compounded semaglutide to be a cheaper, accessible GLP-1, but health experts warn of risks tied to the non-FDA-approved drugs.www.usatoday.com
The compounding part of the industry is very shady. Better regs over the past 5-10 years, but still shady.
At 223 pounds, running 4 miles, and significantly reducing caloric intake, you are setting yourself up for fatigue. It sounds like you aren't meeting your needs. Eventually, your body can hold on to fat stores, start to break down muscle for energy and slow metabolism under plans like this. Three undesirable results of calorie restriction.
I use Ro, which seems to be a pretty big company, for their compounded sema. I bet that a large % of these online pharmacies as using a "Breaking Bad" manufacturing model.
...plus others due to the nutritional deficiencies such as anemia, reduction in bone density, thyroid dysfunction, alteration in thermo regulation, immune system dysfunction, etc. Tread with caution.
I read several comments under the YouTube videos I posted above that mirrored both of your experiences. The one that rang true was that people "learned" how, what and when to eat, and where applicable, exercise. Prior to seeing your experiences and more recently reading those in the comments of the videos, a lot of the commentary and anecdotal experiences was that once people got off Ozempic or Wegovy or Mounjaro or whatever, they gained the weight back quickly. But as you said, "everyone is different." If used as a tool to retrain a person on "good" eating habits (is there ever any bad eating?!), these products could help a lot of people beat obesity.
Ozempic works differently than previously thought, study reveals
Ozempic, Wegovy, Mounjaro and other weight loss drugs work by boosting metabolism and suppressing appetite, a new trial suggests.
www.newsweek.com
I find it amazing after this time on Mounjaro, that I am not even tempted to walk down the aisles of processed foods on the grocery store shelves. Bypassing the processed food aisles not only protects my weight loss, but also saves money!
Without steering this thread into dangerous CE territory, and regardless of what people think about him and what he chose to do today, RFK Jr has made is a key point of his campaign that the government must do more to improve the food environment in this country. Think that he will be fighting an uphill battle, but it is a battle worth taking on. Maybe because I have become more in tune to eating whole and wholesome foods and swearing off all crap food (soda, chips, cookies, sweets, etc--except as a rare, once in a while treat-which even now it is more repulsive than a treat), I have noticed that the topic of processed and ultraprocessed foods is getting more and more discussion.
RFK Jr. will lose this battle since it's a battle against BIG MONEY. Like I've seen more recently than in the past but it's true, FOLLOW THE MONEY. Even the FDA has been grossly compromised and I'll leave it at that.
Mounjaro’s starter dose is 2.5.mg @rubaseball78 🙂
It is a Tirzepatide. Single dose pen/syringe.
Ozempic- is a semiglutide.
Starting dose is 0.25mg with multiple use pen. I could be wrong.
People are getting crazy with shortages and opening pen/syringes to split doses. etc
It’s wild out there. lol
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Just showed up in my X feed. This guy is a huge RU fan, not so huge any more. Lost over 100 lbs by intermittent fasting and diet. He is 27 years old. Easier to do that when young.
Not the same. I believe that 2.5mg is the lowest dose of Mounjaro. But if I am incorrect, I know that I will be corrected quickly.
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