Legacy media has no shame. What a shameful hit piece on Huberman for no apparent reason than he allegedly was a bad boyfriend to 3 women.
OT: oh oh oh Ozempic !
- Thread starter Plum Street
- Start date
Perfect example of Big Food and the Government poisoning children and getting them on track to become consumers of pharmaceuticals when the food system makes them metabolically unhealthy. How does this crap get approved for school lunches?
No, not at all, and surprised at your post. It's about a drug for losing weight that was originally designed for people who are morbidly obese, but being taken by people who want to shed a few pounds to look better. The short and long term side effects are not known. Initial studies have shown that people taking the drug lose more lean mass (muscle) than adipose tissue (fat). Also, once one stops taking the drug, many seem to gain back the weight.It seems to be about anything any fool wants to turn it into.
Some added info on alternative and likely better ways to lose weight through diet and exercise. The comment about nuts was that they are calorie dense and thwart weight loss. Many posts provided information to perhaps sustainably lose weight without taking a drug that is very expensive and perhaps harmful.
As with all things, there are some examples of success. @RobertG seems to be making good progress. In the end n=1, and what works for one person may not work for others.
Weight loss would be much simpler and perhaps easier if the government was not captured and full of conflicts with Big Food and Big Pharma. See my post above about Lunchables, which is approved by our government for school lunch programs. Basically getting kids started early on the wrong path to a healthy life by feeding them highly processed crap food.
So, it is all related if people are following along. This thread is more on point than many others that get hijacked.
Because they don't care really. If they did, they would not accept less than 10% of kids in some school districts being able to pass while at the same time preventing them from choosing the school of their choice.
Back on topic, being overweight is no longer considered shameful, in fact we are celebrating it. Instead of eating healthy and exercising, we push pills. Each generation gets fatter and fatter. Yesterday i saw an ad for a woman's deodorant that lasts 72 hours for all parts of your body, so now we don't even need to shower either
Where do you think the employees of the Department of Agriculture get jobs after they retire or leave the government?
Probably Big Food. It is a huge problem with the US FDA. See here, and the duplicitous answer.
Congratulations on the weight loss! Others have said Ozempic or Wegovy works for them. I hope that you can keep the weight off. Of course, people who lose weight the "natural way" also gain back weight for a variety of reasons. The food environment in the US makes it more difficult. Our son is spending a semester in Spain, and he noted that there is a LOT less processed food available in Spain. He was looking for boxes of mac and cheese (his go to meal), and he was not thrilled he had to make mac and cheese from scratch.
Some interesting stuff before Congress this week and some excellent questions by members of Congress to the FDA Commissioner. This is not political at all, and it does not need to be political. Members of Congress from both sides of the aisle, as well as RFK Jr are not happy with the food environment in the US. The system is broken.
Duplicity?
From the FDA Commissioner's Wiki page:
Califf worked very closely with pharmaceutical companies at the Duke clinical trials center "convincing them to do large, expensive, and, for Duke, profitable clinical trials."[13] He was a paid consultant for Merck Sharp & Dohme, Johnson & Johnson, GlaxoSmithKline, AstraZeneca, and Eli Lilly per ProPublica from 2009 to 2013. The largest consulting payment was $87,500 by Johnson & Johnson in 2012, and "most of funds for travel or consulting under $5,000", which has been called "minimal for a physician of his stature".[14]From 2013 to 2014 he was paid a total of $52,796; the greatest amount being $6,450 from Merck Sharp & Dohme, followed by Amgen, F. Hoffmann-La Roche AG, Janssen Pharmaceutica, Daiichi Sankyo, Sanofi-Aventis, Bristol-Myers Squibb and AstraZeneca.[15]He was a director of Portola Pharmaceuticals, Inc. from July 2012 to January 26, 2015,[14] an advisor for Proventys, Inc., chairman of the medical advisory board of Regado Biosciences, Inc. and has been a member of that board since June 2, 2009, and a member of the clinical advisory board of Corgentech Inc.[16]Forbes wrote that his close ties to the drug industry were why he was not nominated for the FDA Commissioner position in 2009.[13] Califf's ties to the pharmaceutical industry were criticized by the magazine The American Prospect,[17] and Democratic Senators Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin, who announced their intention to vote against his 2021 renomination.[18]
Robert Califf - Wikipedia
Couple things.....
For reference, Ozempic was originally approved in 2017 and has been used for Type 2 Diabetes.
In reference to your comment regarding Government being captured by Big Food and Big Pharma.....the system we have in place fosters Government to be influenced by almost every industry. Corporate & Stockholder greed, PACs and Citizens United as well as pressures to make Government smaller and to deregulate or ease regulations related to public health issues only serve to foster this environment. For example in 2019 changes made to the Dept of Agriculture resulted in essentially halving the size of the USDA.
You are pointing fingers at industry and government but not really suggesting any solutions beyond personal accountability (and I agree about personal accountability). However our history is littered with bad actors / businesses dirtying our water, land, air and food in the name of profits. We can blame this on Government all we want, but without proper staffing, oversight and regulations on health and safety....this is what you sometimes get from industry in the name of profits.
My own thoughts on a potential solution is to increase food (plain language) ingredient labelling standards. People need to more clearly understand what they are consuming and impacts. Further.....there are labelling / advertising standards related to potential side effects/dangers for alcohol, cigarrettes and drugs.....there likely needs to be some of these standards applied to processed foods as well. This would maintain personal accountability while also helping people better understand the impacts of their own personal choices.
It's about one poster trying to divert blame from fat people eating too much as the real cause of their obesity.It seems to be about anything any fool wants to turn it into.
Anyone that thinks the gov'ment has been "captured" by big pharma is a moron. From the recent push for price controls and limited IP protection, the gov'ment is very hostile to this industry.
Yeah, I point fingers, but what am I going to do as Joe Citizen.
While he has a snowball's chance in winning, RFK Jr and his running mate are railing against these issues, and they do have the support of MDs who focus more on diet and exercise before pharma to address issues such as obesity and diabetes.
Even as a person with an engineering degree, it took me about 15-20 years post graduation to start to figure all of this out. Perhaps schools could focus on teaching proper nutrition, avoiding seed oils, processed foods, excessive sugar, etc.
I like your ideas too.
But we also have to battle this nonsense. The war on conventional farming and meat products is ludicrous Agree with Raphael's sentiment.
Most government employees if they leave the government end up working for industry. It's very big with Military contractors and while most government employees are good and honest people there is more incentive to not piss off industry so you can work for them after.Probably Big Food. It is a huge problem with the US FDA. See here, and the duplicitous answer.
Congratulations on the weight loss! Others have said Ozempic or Wegovy works for them. I hope that you can keep the weight off. Of course, people who lose weight the "natural way" also gain back weight for a variety of reasons. The food environment in the US makes it more difficult. Our son is spending a semester in Spain, and he noted that there is a LOT less processed food available in Spain. He was looking for boxes of mac and cheese (his go to meal), and he was not thrilled he had to make mac and cheese from scratch.
Some interesting stuff before Congress this week and some excellent questions by members of Congress to the FDA Commissioner. This is not political at all, and it does not need to be political. Members of Congress from both sides of the aisle, as well as RFK Jr are not happy with the food environment in the US. The system is broken.
Duplicity?
From the FDA Commissioner's Wiki page:
Califf worked very closely with pharmaceutical companies at the Duke clinical trials center "convincing them to do large, expensive, and, for Duke, profitable clinical trials."[13] He was a paid consultant for Merck Sharp & Dohme, Johnson & Johnson, GlaxoSmithKline, AstraZeneca, and Eli Lilly per ProPublica from 2009 to 2013. The largest consulting payment was $87,500 by Johnson & Johnson in 2012, and "most of funds for travel or consulting under $5,000", which has been called "minimal for a physician of his stature".[14]From 2013 to 2014 he was paid a total of $52,796; the greatest amount being $6,450 from Merck Sharp & Dohme, followed by Amgen, F. Hoffmann-La Roche AG, Janssen Pharmaceutica, Daiichi Sankyo, Sanofi-Aventis, Bristol-Myers Squibb and AstraZeneca.[15]He was a director of Portola Pharmaceuticals, Inc. from July 2012 to January 26, 2015,[14] an advisor for Proventys, Inc., chairman of the medical advisory board of Regado Biosciences, Inc. and has been a member of that board since June 2, 2009, and a member of the clinical advisory board of Corgentech Inc.[16]Forbes wrote that his close ties to the drug industry were why he was not nominated for the FDA Commissioner position in 2009.[13] Califf's ties to the pharmaceutical industry were criticized by the magazine The American Prospect,[17] and Democratic Senators Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin, who announced their intention to vote against his 2021 renomination.[18]
Robert Califf - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
As for me, I'm trying to change what I eat and create a system of buying only and eating certain foods. Get a system in place and then allow the system to work. I'm not on a diet. I don't want to look at it that way and I don't want to think that this will end someday. These are the foods that I will and should eat and those are the foods that I will eat from now on. The other things don't enter into my house.
That is what we did.
Eliminated:
1. Bread, rolls, bagels
2. All snacks such as pretzels, chips
3. All traditional pasta products
4. Cookies, donuts, sweets, sugar, snack bars, sneaky protein bars that are full of additives
5. Seed oils (known as the hateful 8)
6. Cold cuts except on very rare occasions
7. Starchy foods such as french fries and other fried foods
8. Fast food (we never ate much fast food anyway)
9. Diet sodas, diet iced teas, etc.
Reduced:
1. Red meat- used to eat 2-4 times per week, now 1-2 times per week.
2. Desserts
3. Cheese
Substituted/Increased:
1. Greek yogurt with no sugar added
2. Blueberries, rasberries, blackberries, added to yogurt
3. Fish, especially salmon
4. Lean chicken and turkey
5. Vegetables such as asparagus and broccoli
6. Water, lots of water
7. Home brewed iced teas
We not only lost weight. We feel a lot better and spend less money on food.
IMO, one of the more interesting "tools" available now is Hava, which is an app available for Iphones and Android. A web link is provided below. It basically scores foods for satiety. Higher protein sources such as fish and chicken score very high. Consuming higher satiety foods will make a person feel full or satiated faster, eating less. Hedonic foods such as chips and ice cream literally start a feeding frenzy.
Stupid post.That is what we did.
Eliminated:
1. Bread, rolls, bagels
2. All snacks such as pretzels, chips
3. All traditional pasta products
4. Cookies, donuts, sweets, sugar, snack bars, sneaky protein bars that are full of additives
5. Seed oils (known as the hateful 8)
6. Cold cuts except on very rare occasions
7. Starchy foods such as french fries and other fried foods
8. Fast food (we never ate much fast food anyway)
9. Diet sodas, diet iced teas, etc.
Reduced:
1. Red meat- used to eat 2-4 times per week, now 1-2 times per week.
2. Desserts
3. Cheese
Substituted/Increased:
1. Greek yogurt with no sugar added
2. Blueberries, rasberries, blackberries, added to yogurt
3. Fish, especially salmon
4. Lean chicken and turkey
5. Vegetables such as asparagus and broccoli
6. Water, lots of water
7. Home brewed iced teas
We not only lost weight. We feel a lot better and spend less money on food.
IMO, one of the more interesting "tools" available now is Hava, which is an app available for Iphones and Android. A web link is provided below. It basically scores foods for satiety. Higher protein sources such as fish and chicken score very high. Consuming higher satiety foods will make a person feel full or satiated faster, eating less. Hedonic foods such as chips and ice cream literally start a feeding frenzy.
All of those foods are perfectly fine in moderation. If you don't want to be fat, just control yourself and eat less. Stop blaming other people for your decisions.
Beat me to this. The sad part is the majority of society doesnt realize it was developed for Type 2 DM thanks to marketing and social media. I'll even guess a good majority wouldnt give a second thought to using it for weight loss but would bypass it for diabetes treatment if they had to pay for it.
I'll disagree with the stupid comment. Eliminating certain foods from the house eliminates temptation to consume/over consume those foods for anyone in the house. A little donuts here, a little potato chips there, and a little carbohydrates all add up over the days, weeks, months, etc. Salty, sweet, oily, fatty foods typically taste good but greatly reducing them will do a world of good for the body. I do agree moderation is good, but that moderation is typically abused by many. An overall healthy diet is optimal. @Knight Shift is on the right path.
T2K is wrong about most everything. His worldview does not extend beyond his mirror.
You can get fat by eating too much of any food. Be responsible and eat less. Not complicated.
You are talking to an arrogant wall. Same goes for pure protein- lean chicken, beef, fish, etc. High protein foods have higher satiety. The same goes for fiber, but to a lesser extent, but carrots, celery, etc are not too dense in calories.
There are morbidly obese people who cannot lose weight because of glandular and other metabolic issues. Ozempic may make sense for them. Anyone else should proceed with extreme caution. I myself take meds, but only if I am sure that there is no other workable approach. I was taught this, in fact, by my longtime physician, who was considered among the most distinguished members of the Philadelphia medical community. Meds simply pose too much danger of short- and long-term effects to be taken without firm need.
D'uh. And it's a lot easier to eat 500 calories of pastries than chips. So, what's your point?
Personal responsibility. There is zero excuse for not knowing what you are eating. Information is everywhere.
P.S - I love carrots, eat them all the time.
Let me fix this for you:
There are morbidly obese people who cannot NOW lose weight because of THE glandular and other metabolic issues THEY CAUSED BY OVEREATING FOR YEARS AND YEARS.
Overeating and being overweight for a long time changes your body.
Look around when you are out in public, at a tailgate, at the beach, etc. It's complicated for a big portion of society and it's getting worse.
Bingo!!!!
It's not complicated. Many people overeat at tailgates. Stop doing that.
If you want to change behavior:
Overweight people pay 2x for health insurance/programs
Obese people pay 4x for health insurance/programs
Cool?
You are preaching to the absolute wrong person...look around and preach to the ones you are targeting. It's complicated for them. That's who I'm talking about. Trust me. I'm fine with my diet, weight, exercise routine, blood pressure, and beer consumption. Thank you for imparting your medical advice to me though.
The strategy of eating less densely caloric foods is actually fulfilling your mantra of eating less. So I really don't understand your post. Knight Shift and myself are doing exactly what you are saying. So I don't understand your objection, it seems combative for no reason.
Its been interesting to watch the emerging food revolution.
Over past decades, trainloads of amputated feet and legs manifested while diabetes groups told people to avoid fat and eat grains - exactly reversed from wise advice. Now 100s of 1000s of people are losing their diabetes giving-up the Round-Up bread and seed oils (chemically processed and not pressed like olives).
I noticed 2 decades ago that I felt awful a day after pasta - I would have people ask me if I was sick because my face showed impact. Bread sales are now down 2% and people are catching on. Doctors like Huberman, Berry, Bosorth and Bernstein have had an escalating impact on diet and health.
Academic researchers, corp execs and bureaucratic agencies have often been all the same people just switching hats. Its like military brass, pols and defense contractors rubbing each others slimy backs on drifting, money-machine wars that kill and maim "just because" its a career path.
When I do a month of Keto I practically have to make myself eat after 10 days. The cravings for even fav foods will leave. Swapping over to fat burning metabolism is like magic. For 2-3 years I had sore wrists and hands I though was from bicycle. I gave-up Aspartame and all the pains went away. Americans have been getting poisoned from all directions. This was known years ago but Keto and fitness space tied loose ends.
"Demolish the Food Pyramid"
In the wild, animals instinctively find and consume the foods best adapted to their bodies. Not so for humans. Agribusinesses, fast-food chains, and calorie merchants assail the consumer with edible products designed to maximize revenue, not health. The result is a plague of nutrition-related illness: obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer. And contradictory nutritional guidance from popular books and scientific researchers only intensifies our confusion about what to eat.
Demolish the Food Pyramid | Harvard Magazine
In the wild, animals instinctively find and consume the foods best adapted to their bodies. Not so for humans. Agribusinesses, fast-food chains...
www.harvardmagazine.com
I'm no expert but I highly recommend my go to breakfast of one egg, 200 grams of egg whites, 40 grams of broccoli. After you finish cooking it add 50 to 60 grams of mashed avocado to the top.
Real good and I am not hungry for hours later.
Real good and I am not hungry for hours later.
That's a great breakfast. There are many who advocate skipping breakfast and eating within an 8 hour window, and allowing the gut microbiome to "recover." As with all things, what works for one person, may or may not work for others.
The dolt on this board who spends 99% of his time staring in the mirror, looking down on others who are not like him and pontificating on stuff he has no experience with such things. Everyone is a bit different and will find what works best for them.
It amazes me what I can control and what I cannot control in regard to food.
I completely gave up alcohol over 10 years ago with no issue.
I never eat ice cream at home because I leave it for my wife. I have the ability to make it disappear very quickly if I eat it.
I really should limit my intake of cookies and cakes to exclusively homemade and never store bought. That way it will only be around during limited occasions.
We had a skinny guy in the office who had bags of chips, pretzels, cookie and non-diet soda in his office. He would eat one cookie and the opened package would be in his office for months. He would often pick up lunch and come back with some really unhealthy crap. He seemed to never gain a pound. 🤷♂️
Robert Lustig, MD had spoken and written extensively on the topic on how some people must quite alcohol and sugar consumption completely. It's way over the brain capacity of the board expert here, but there are lots of YouTube videos where he discusses the issues.
"Elucidation of fructose metabolism in liver and fructose action in brain demonstrate three parallelisms with ethanol. First, hepatic fructose metabolism is similar to ethanol, as they both serve as substrates for de novo lipogenesis, and in the process both promote hepatic insulin resistance, dyslipidemia, and hepatic steatosis. Second, fructosylation of proteins with resultant superoxide formation can result in hepatic inflammation similar to acetaldehyde, an intermediary metabolite of ethanol. Lastly, by stimulating the "hedonic pathway" of the brain both directly and indirectly, fructose creates habituation, and possibly dependence; also paralleling ethanol. Thus, fructose induces alterations in both hepatic metabolism and central nervous system energy signaling, leading to a "vicious cycle" of excessive consumption and disease consistent with metabolic syndrome."
Fructose: metabolic, hedonic, and societal parallels with ethanol - PubMed
Rates of fructose consumption continue to rise nationwide and have been linked to rising rates of obesity, type 2 diabetes, and metabolic syndrome. Because obesity has been equated with addiction, and because of their evolutionary commonalities, we chose to examine the metabolic, hedonic, and...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I have the gentleman on "ignore" and suggest you do the same. Life's too short to spend one's time responding to people like that.
In theory, you are correct. You also have to realize that if it were that simple, obesity would not be as much of an epidemic as it is today and certainly would not be worsening. Fructose corn syrup has a lot of addictive properties that is not easily overcome. Fructose corn syrup is also pervasive in society. There are socioeconomic factors that come into play here as well. It is significantly easier and cheaper for families to buy fast food than to shop for healthy foods.
I was taking a walk (before it rains AGAIN) and listened to Huberman do an in-dept podcast with a psychiatrist (Chris Palmer) who is a professor at Harvard Med School. Palmer had his own weight and psyche issues growing-up (did all the meds that made him worse).
He got into Keto and his whole life changed. He had a client who was 340 lbs, schizophrenic, anti-social with paranoia, voices, hallucinations - the whole bit. He got him to try keto and it all went away - weight, audio-visual ghosts, suicidal thoughts etc.
Bad food is about more than physical health. People can use drink to handle stress and it takes the edge off for awhile. Then people feel can guilt and anxiety over the drinking and need more drink to deal with the guilt/anxiety of drink. They sink into their own juices where struggle makes things worse
People can go down the same hole with food. Especially women who have food issues that are unique to them as a group. Youtube and Spotify
He got into Keto and his whole life changed. He had a client who was 340 lbs, schizophrenic, anti-social with paranoia, voices, hallucinations - the whole bit. He got him to try keto and it all went away - weight, audio-visual ghosts, suicidal thoughts etc.
Bad food is about more than physical health. People can use drink to handle stress and it takes the edge off for awhile. Then people feel can guilt and anxiety over the drinking and need more drink to deal with the guilt/anxiety of drink. They sink into their own juices where struggle makes things worse
People can go down the same hole with food. Especially women who have food issues that are unique to them as a group. Youtube and Spotify
Last edited:
