Glad to see I was not the only one to pick up on the repeated reference to "poor" people.
OT: PATH extension to Nwk Airport?
- Thread starter ScarletKid2008
- Start date
Not everyone in Manhattan lives on the subway lines that go NEAR JFK, which means they are likely having 1 transfer before getting to the Airtrain in Jamaica or Howard Beach. NJT to EWR is not the most convenient, particularly during rush hour opposite commute, plus you never know when there is going to be a traffic jam in the tunnel. Happened to me a couple times just in the last year or so resulting in an expensive Uber ride.
PATH to EWR will be cheaper and more reliable, especially from Downtown Manhattan. Should also be helpful for JC and Hoboken hotels and office tenants.
PATH to EWR will be cheaper and more reliable, especially from Downtown Manhattan. Should also be helpful for JC and Hoboken hotels and office tenants.
If you live in some of the northern counties (Bergen, Passaic, Morris etc) how do you get to the airport via public transportation...Nothing really viable without 2-3 changes or a bus (lugging your luggage from the tras in platform to a local commuter bus etc) or $20 cab ride. With this one can at least take a train to a connecting PATH train. Think about it. Might even reduce some taxi and even regular traffic around the airport and just make it convenient and less expensive for people. If one can easily get to the airport. Dropping off and picking up people at EWR can be a nightmare and the cellphone lot is just as bad. As a post script, how about some toilet facilities for the cellphone lots. There are none at JFK as well as EWR and how about some video boards either flight info. Video boards are conveniently available at other airports (Philadelphia, Tampa etc) and cut down on looping traffic and illegal parking that many of us have experienced at EWR.
It a little off topic but are there any good park and ride lots into the NYC coming in from 78? I always park in the Newark Hilton and take the train into the city from there but I hate that garage but it so convient. I done some research and most stations don't have lots or don't have anything about overnight parking.
For someone like me who lives on the Upper East Side of Manhattan and currently works in Jersey City, this project would be a no-brainer. Extending PATH should give me a $2.75 two-seat ride (PATH->AirTran) to Newark Airport from work, or $5.50 three-seat ride (MTA->PATH->AirTran) to NWK from my apartment (not sure whether an AirTran transfer from PATH would include an additional cost, since both are Port Authority-operated systems). Currently, my options for traveling to NWK would be a 3-seat ride (MTA->NJTransit->AirTran) costing over $20 from my apartment with the added bonus of dealing with NYPenn Station & associated delays, or a 3-seat ride (PATH->NJTransit->AirTran) costing around $16 from work, a $16 bus from certain parts of Manhattan which would still necessitate an additional PATH/MTA trip, or an even more expensive taxi/Uber/Lyft. Given the choice, I take a 2-seat ride (MTA->AirTran) to JFK for $7.75 or two-seat ride to LaGuardia using MTA subway/bus for $2.25 every time (even from work, which would only cost an add'l $2.75 to cross back into Manhattan or nothing with my current Unlimited pass). There are a lot of airport travelers in Manhattan, Jersey City, Hoboken, and even adjacent towns in a similar position who frequently have the same hard choices to make.
When staying in central New Jersey with use of my car, NWK obviously becomes a more attractive proposition, although I still prefer Philadelphia airport for longer trips (usually cheaper fares, cheaper $11 daily parking, and only slightly more in tolls with the added Delaware River crossings).
Regardless, the additional of a Park-and-Ride and pedestrian entrances to Newark Airport's rail station are no-brainers, independent of the PATH extension..
When staying in central New Jersey with use of my car, NWK obviously becomes a more attractive proposition, although I still prefer Philadelphia airport for longer trips (usually cheaper fares, cheaper $11 daily parking, and only slightly more in tolls with the added Delaware River crossings).
Regardless, the additional of a Park-and-Ride and pedestrian entrances to Newark Airport's rail station are no-brainers, independent of the PATH extension..
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Yeah, a PATH extension would make it easier for those who are near a PATH station on the Newark-WTC PATH line (Harrison, Journal Sq, Grove St, Exchange Pl, WTC). But for anyone else in Manhattan or Hoboken, it doesn't save you a transfer. You would still need to take a train (subway or Path) to the Newark-WTC PATH Line versus the current need to take a train to the NEC (subway to Penn Station in NYC, or NJT to Secaucus Jct from Hoboken). Either way, you still have to take 2 trains and then get on the airport Monorail.
As far as cost, a big part of the cost of going to the Newark Airport station is the surcharge to transfer at that station. The NJTransit cost from NY Penn to Newark Penn is $5.75, and to North Elizabeth is $7.25. You could assume the fair fare from NY Penn to Newark Airport is $6.25 (without the airport surcharge). There is no reason to assume that the airport surcharge would disappear for PATH users, and if it did, why not just eliminate it for NJ Transit and Amtrak passengers.
Sure $6.25 is more than the $2.75 PATH fare. But $1.7 Billion is a lot of money to spend in order to save you $3.50 on the cost to get to the airport. If the $3.50 is a barrier to your making the trip, you probably can't afford your airline ticket.
Your argument that the PATH is faster, runs more frequently, and isn't subject to the same delays as trains from NY Penn, is actually an argument to forego the PATH extension and to put the money toward improvement of the NEC tunnels. Even before sustaining damage from Sandy, the NEC tunnels were insufficient to handle the train demand that exists. By moving forward with the tunnel improvements (which includes expansion), it would be possible to run more trains in and out of NY Penn, and improve speed and reliability. Plus you could add more mid-town direct service from other rail lines. This would benefit not only those trying to get to Newark Airport, but everyone who takes a train from anywhere in North/Central New Jersey.
Newark's South Ward could really use the economic development.
Vast majority of violent crime in the city takes place in the South & West Wards (away from Downtown).
Right now, along Frelinghuysen Ave there are light manufacturing businesses, warehouses and auto garages sprinkled between fast food joints, liquor stores, abandoned buildings, hookers and drug slingers.
This project can be a game changer for the people who reside in that area, the vast majority of them good/law abiding folks.
Vast majority of violent crime in the city takes place in the South & West Wards (away from Downtown).
Right now, along Frelinghuysen Ave there are light manufacturing businesses, warehouses and auto garages sprinkled between fast food joints, liquor stores, abandoned buildings, hookers and drug slingers.
This project can be a game changer for the people who reside in that area, the vast majority of them good/law abiding folks.
This is the other thing people are missing about this. This also helps Jersey City enormously. Right now in order to get to Jersey City from EWR you either need to Taxi, or Take the NJT Train to Newark the Transfer to the Path with a different ticket.
I have done the NJT Train to EWR and quite honestly it is a bit of a headache depending on the time of day. During Rush Hour When a bunch of trains are running it is fine, but I missed by 10am train and needed to wait almost 45 minutes for the next one to Newark. The Path will offer constant service service, Probably every 5-10 minutes during normal Path Scheduled Hours with no Transfer to a separate ticket needed. Much more convenient and easier for both domestic and international Travelers.
The airport surcharge you pay with a NJTransit rail ticket to Newark Penn Station is the $5.50 cost to use the AirTran, which is a Port Authority transit system, for those connecting from NJTransit and Amtrak. My argument is that since PATH is also a Port Authority agency transit system, there shouldn't be an additional cost (or should at least be a reduced cost) to connect between the two, because it is really a transfer. When using MTA NYCTransit subways and buses, you are always allowed at least one free transfer between their subway trains and/or buses, whereas there are additional costs to connect to other agencies' transit systems, so there is precedence for this.
Also, transferring between MTA Subway, PATH, and even AirTran train lines is inherently simpler, because all generally run trains 24 hours a day and relatively frequently (from 5 minute intervals during rush hour to 30 minute intervals during overnight hours). There are also many possible free transfers between multiple lines at many major MTA and PATH subway stations, as well as connection between at least two of the noted transit systems within certain interconnected stations, which affords travelers an excellent amount of flexibility. NJTransit neither runs trains 24 hours a day, nor frequently enough during off-hours (intervals can be up to one hour). Also, you buy one ticket per NJTransit train or bus ride (unless you purchase monthly/weekly passes, which isn't going to happen for one-time airport trips). I have taken all sorts of off-hour and red-eye flights to-fro JFK and LaGuardia, with confidence that I will be able to return to Manhattan with a reasonably low amount of waiting time and at a low cost (which adds up when you travel more frequently).
As a practicing civil/transportation engineer who also understands business & economics, I will flat-out state that replacing the Hudson River rail tunnels as well as the Port Authority Bus Terminal before they structurally fail are the two most important projects that haven't yet begun in the tri-state area. If either of them happen to fail, not only the life/safety, but also regional commerce, economic, and quality-of-life consequences would be catastrophic for the tri-state area (and arguably the Northeast Corridor as a whole). My previous post regarding the PATH extension to Newark Airport was not to imply that it is a high priority at this time, but rather to refute the argument that it is useless and redundant. As someone who understands NYC-Hoboken-Jersey City mass transit, logistics, and travel patterns, this is simply not the case.
Port Authority capital plans budget for 10 years of capital construction. The one being debated on this month includes funding for at least a portion of Gateway Tunnel and Bus Terminal reconstruction, continuing construction at the Hudson River crossings, airports, and the PATH system, as well as capital construction funding for an AirTran to LaGuardia (which I also think would be useful) and a PATH extension to Newark airport. The priorities are represented by the portions of the projects which are budgeted, not by which particular projects are funded (or not) at this time.
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OK. The Newark Airport Monorail is free to use. The $5.50 fee is a fee that the PA charges to use the Airport Rail Station, which is supposed to help cover the cost of extending the monorail to the station. If you get on the monorail anywhere else, there is no cost to use the monorail. But the actual fair fare for riding NJ Transit from NYPenn to Newark Airport is $6.25 (halfway between the $5.25 to ride to Newark Penn and $7.25 to ride to North Elizabeth). If the desire is to find a way to avoid the Newark Airport Rail Station surcharges, they can just eliminate the surcharges. You don't have to run a $1.7B rail extension to eliminate the surcharges.
Also, once the NEC Hudson Tunnel project is complete, the number of trains out of NY Penn would be able to double, allowing NJ Transit to run more frequent service to the airport station.
And I am not denying that the PATH extension would be more convenient for those who would use it. I am questioning whether that additional convenience is worth the money, especially as we are struggling to find funding for other much more important transportation projects that impact many more people, including the NEC Hudson Tunnels. Spending $1.7B on a PATH extension seems pretty far down on the priority list.
AirTran Newark is free to use between the Terminals and Economy Parking, as a convenience to those who have connecting flights, are already paying to utilize parking at the airport, as well as terminal staff. However, for travelers to actually connect to mass transit to leave Newark airport, they pay the $5.50 access fee, hence the "cost" of using the AirTran system. The same arrangement is in place for the JFK airport AirTran to Howard Beach and Jamaica subway/LIRR stations in NYC, except that it costs $5.00 to use; I pay a flat $2.75 fare for use of the MTA subway or corresponding LIRR fare, which connects to AirTran. My argument remains that since the AirTran is run by Port Authority, then a theoretical transfer between that and the Port Authority's adjoining PATH system should cost nothing, similar to a NYCTransit bus/subway transfer.
We agree that spending $1.7 billion dollars on a PATH extension is something that should be closely studied, but I caution that this is number is a very preliminary estimate without detailed investigation of existing infrastructure (i.e. tail tracks at Newark Penn Station for PATH train storage, environmental/property acquisition issues, etc). We also agree that building new NEC under-river tunnels and rehabbing the existing ones is by far the top priority. However, for the additional carless option presented for Newark Airport travelers from NYC and Northeast NJ, as well as a hugely useful Park & Ride for commuters, the former is still worthy of consideration.
If NJTransit ran trains to Newark Airport more frequently from NY Penn Station, I would certainly at least give more consideration to using them from uptown and midtown Manhattan, especially during rush hour. From downtown Manhattan and Jersey City/Newark/Hoboken, as well as during off-hours, I would personally still find PATH much more convenient to take, not to mention the reduced cost.
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No, if you actually read the thread you will see Plum Street seemed to have a problem with a new Path station that would serve a poor neighborhood in Newark and that it was the true reason behind the push for an extension of the PATH.
Path commute from the airport station (which would be linked to the local Newark neighborhood via pathways) to NYC.
As someone in JC I can safely say that I will never use this to get to the airport. Uber makes this superfluous to anyone who isn't bothered by the $15 extra dollars over the PATH ride.
Still, I think the project has merits. I'm not sure if it is how I would spend that amount of money on transit in this area, but I can see the upsides.
Last bit, as someone who knows a bit of the inside scoop on Port Authority stuff... don't ride the monorail, that thing is a disaster waiting to happen.
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That should use that money to build a monorail linking RU's NB and Piscataway campuses! ;)
Quite honestly if they could create some sort of rail system for Rutgers and the surrounding community for the same $1.7B, that is probably money better spent. I imagine the ridership would be far greater than the PATH extension, and there would be a savings and potential environmental benefit from eliminating the campus buses.
Uber is $15-20 from Jersey downtown. If you cannot afford this you cannot afford to fly.
I think this is a waste. Put the money into another transit project.
I think this is a waste. Put the money into another transit project.
Commuter parking at a reasonable rate would be huge. Many NJ Transit stations have limited parking or no parking for those living outside the town. If you are commuting to JC or Wall St you will find many driving to Jersey City which creates bottle neck traffic on the extension by Bayonne. If they add parking decks for commuters you may find it easier to drive their and PATH it to Newark, JC, or Wall St.
I always thought they should do a Park and Ride at NJ Tpk 13A by the outlets with a light rail that runs to the airport and JC into Hoboken. In the am Exit 14 backs up onto the Turnpike with drivers who work in JC. This Park and Ride potential would alleviate that where it would mostly be those going to Bayonne or the Holland tunnel.
I would submit it include all the B1G grads who move here from the rural Midwest after graduation and need a cheap way to get to the airport to fly home. But that was a good article.
Exactly, and ditto- the merit IMO is more from a tourist perspective from JC- one seat ride to EWR and NYC from downtown hotels.
From a NYC perspective, it is getting Wall Street a one stop, 20 minute ride.
In general, it will be faster than an Uber at rush hour, and solves the fact that NJT is really damn slow and expensive, and you get screwed if you do not time the train right. Generally I leave one hour from my Midtown office on the train to either EWR or JFK, which should not be as JFK is much further, but yet there is no real choice.
Politically as least right now that would not happen, but if Lesniak wins I could easily see the argument, especially if you get a light rail out to E Brunswick or into Pway or Somerset to get commuters.
Also will be interesting to note with a change in governors and supposed infrastructure bills if anything happens with the MOM line as one route was out of NB.
Taking the Path train into NYC is the cheapest way of getting there. This will help commuters to get into NYC. I would try to take the Path in but I don't know where to park in JC or Hoboken.
Ru planning that's an interesting and incorrect observation. Where did i state I had a problem with it? I stated that I heard PA had some creative planning and scheming to get its hands on federal money earmarked for poorer areas.
You called me a name in another post you made in this thread. Your just trying to instigate here. Please stop.
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