OT: PGA and LIV Golf to merge….

[Ty Webb]

Guess it's pseudo-official as everyone is reporting it from ESPN to the WSJ. Rahm is still quiet but way too much smoke at this point.

Who knows where all this ends up. It's been pretty quiet on the merger front but no doubt Rahm to LIV is a major coup, arguably their biggest coup. This was a guy who just last year was thought to be a loyalist to the PGAT. But that's crazy money to turn down.

Golf is changing and for me, a person who just liked the old school events, I am not sure it's for the better. If the team concept LIV uses becomes the "tour" for a lack of a better term, I likely won't watch much golf outside of the majors.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Guess it's pseudo-official as everyone is reporting it from ESPN to the WSJ. Rahm is still quiet but way too much smoke at this point.

Who knows where all this ends up. It's been pretty quiet on the merger front but no doubt Rahm to LIV is a major coup, arguably their biggest coup. This was a guy who just last year was thought to be a loyalist to the PGAT. But that's crazy money to turn down.

Golf is changing and for me, a person who just liked the old school events, I am not sure it's for the better. If the team concept LIV uses becomes the "tour" for a lack of a better term, I likely won't watch much golf outside of the majors.

He turned down that money already to be loyal to the PGA. He’s taking it now since the PGA leadership stabbed their players in the back with the merger announcement.

 

[jtung230]

He turned down that money already to be loyal to the PGA. He’s taking it now since the PGA leadership stabbed their players in the back with the merger announcement.

He should totally ask for more. He’s worth a lot more than 300mm. Wonder how BK feels about his contract now?

 

[T2Kplus20]

He should totally ask for more. He’s worth a lot more than 300mm. Wonder how BK feels about his contract now?

$300m plus all the prize money he earns.

 

[Section124]

He turned down that money already to be loyal to the PGA. He’s taking it now since the PGA leadership stabbed their players in the back with the merger announcement.

This. Rahm wanted to leave from the beginning. It was just a matter to time (to see if LIV was going to last) and he got his payday. I think others will jump now as well (names that will be a surprise).

 

[MADHAT1]

Rahm to LIV. $300m or more. Good for him.

LIV spending what it takes , overpaying or not is just a personal decision about the LIV making sure it gets top players.
My question is, did the merger become finalized or what's going on if it isn't.

 

[Ty Webb]

LIV spending what it takes , overpaying or not is just a personal decision about the LIV making sure it gets top players.
My question is, did the merger become finalized or what's going on if it isn't.

That's the million dollar question. If the "tour" now becomes the LIV format, it's going to be interesting because I think they will then have a viewership problem on their hands.

At the end of the day, Norman and Mickelson got what they wanted. They wanted to stick it to the PGAT, which they have done, and Monahan was a witless facilitator.

 

[jtung230]

That's the million dollar question. If the "tour" now becomes the LIV format, it's going to be interesting because I think they will then have a viewership problem on their hands.

At the end of the day, Norman and Mickelson got what they wanted. They wanted to stick it to the PGAT, which they have done, and Monahan was a witless facilitator.

One guy isn’t going to make or break the tour. PGA can easily get BK back. Might be a one for one swap

 

[ClassOf02]

There will be more. My prediction is Schauffele and Cantlay are next.

 

[MADHAT1]

One guy isn’t going to make or break the tour. PGA can easily get BK back. Might be a one for one swap

If the PGA and LIV merged, why does the LIV have to pay Rahm ?

 

[WhiteBus]

LIV spending what it takes , overpaying or not is just a personal decision about the LIV making sure it gets top players.
My question is, did the merger become finalized or what's going on if it isn't.

The merger meetings are a complete secret to this very day. No one knows to this day what is going on. If anything. They have until the 31st of this month to finalize the deal IIRC the agreement.
I feel bad for any player. The PGA absolutely botched this from day 1.

 

[Ty Webb]

If the PGA and LIV merged, why does the LIV have to pay Rahm ?

Possibly leverage? With every top player they take, it weakens the PGAT.

As WhiteBus said, who the heck knows what’s going on. Everything has been in secret.

 

[jtung230]

https://www.thestreet.com/sports/pga-tour-golfer-thoughts-jon-rahm-liv-golf?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

its not about money. It’s about a lot of money

 

[T2Kplus20]

https://www.thestreet.com/sports/pga-tour-golfer-thoughts-jon-rahm-liv-golf?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

its not about money. It’s about a lot of money

 

[RU09FOOTBALL]

There will be more. My prediction is Schauffele and Cantlay are next.

Newest rumor is Tyrrell Hatton and Tony Finau. 12th and 21st ranked in the world, respectively. BTW, it seems like every single LIV rumor has panned out.

 

[Joey Bags]

Guess it's pseudo-official as everyone is reporting it from ESPN to the WSJ. Rahm is still quiet but way too much smoke at this point.

Who knows where all this ends up. It's been pretty quiet on the merger front but no doubt Rahm to LIV is a major coup, arguably their biggest coup. This was a guy who just last year was thought to be a loyalist to the PGAT. But that's crazy money to turn down.

Golf is changing and for me, a person who just liked the old school events, I am not sure it's for the better. If the team concept LIV uses becomes the "tour" for a lack of a better term, I likely won't watch much golf outside of the majors.

The LIV format is a joke, it doesn’t feel like a pro sporting event. More like a celebrity pro-am.

 

[Ty Webb]

The LIV format is a joke, it doesn’t feel like a pro sporting event. More like a celebrity pro-am.

This is what has me fascinated about all of this now. The product is what the product is and frankly, it doesn't seem to have been a hit with fans. LIV fans talk about international appeal but a report came out that even the Adelaide event, which LIV hyped as wildly successful, lost a ton of money.

So I assume they think that if they keep shelling out big bucks for top players, people will just gravitate to them given the names as the product/format appears to be "ehhh" for most fans. And maybe that's what happens but what if people just stop watching altogether and only really tune in for the majors? Or does the merger basically just mean the PGAT gets access to all the players, run tournamants as is and then LIV is worked in as just another layer here, a team season long event involving teams (kind of like Fed Ex Cup but for teams)?

The intrigue surrounding this is pretty crazy at this point.

 

[T2Kplus20]

The LIV format is a joke, it doesn’t feel like a pro sporting event. More like a celebrity pro-am.

3 rounds are fine, but can do without the shotgun start.

 

[Ty Webb]

3 rounds are fine, but can do without the shotgun start.

You are probably right about 54 holes. That's something one would probably get used to. The shotgun start seems to take some of the drama out but I guess over time one could get used to it.

To me, the really big issue is the production. I find it tough to watch. The broadcast is haphazard, the music in the background is too much, the venues aren't very good (granted this could change with access to PGAs connections), the graphics just are annoying.

Now I could be way wrong here, but I think most of the golf TV audience is going to be turned off by that stuff but maybe if they add enough good players, it will grow on people.

 

[Section124]

I think the shotgun start is more to show all players in a 4 hour timeframe / helps with their team concept by packaging it all together. Who is really watching 12+ hours of PGA rounds anymore? Most people are not interested or have the time. LIV format is dramatically different from what people are used to. It takes time to change culture. Not sure it will be success but from a modern "sporting event" perspective, it's closer to the other sports than the rest of golf.

 

[WhiteBus]

I think the shotgun start is more to show all players in a 4 hour timeframe / helps with their team concept by packaging it all together. Who is really watching 12+ hours of PGA rounds anymore? Most people are not interested or have the time. LIV format is dramatically different from what people are used to. It takes time to change culture. Not sure it will be success but from a modern "sporting event" perspective, it's closer to the other sports than the rest of golf.

Plus everyone is playing in the same conditions. Love the shotgun starts.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Plus everyone is playing in the same conditions. Love the shotgun starts.

That's definitely a big benefit. However, don't like the leaders of a tourney finishing on different holes. Not sure if they try to group final round leaders together?

 

[B0ski]

Guys that have went to LIV don’t care about growing the game, playing less, more time with their families, playing shotguns or playing 54 holes. They only care about the money. Harold Varner was the only person who was honest about why he went to LIV. I don’t begrudge any of them who went to LIV, hell I would have gone too for that money, but they should all save the BS as to why they left.

 

[WhiteBus]

Guys that have went to LIV don’t care about growing the game, playing less, more time with their families, playing shotguns or playing 54 holes. They only care about the money. Harold Varner was the only person who was honest about why he went to LIV. I don’t begrudge any of them who went to LIV, hell I would have gone too for that money, but they should all save the BS as to why they left.

Rahm certainly didn't do it just for the money. A lot of guys are tired of the bullcrap from the PGA the last few years.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Rahm certainly didn't do it just for the money. A lot of guys are tired of the bullcrap from the PGA the last few years.

TRUTH! Rahm turned down the money before but said yes now. Why? PGA backstabbing after 18 months of begging for "loyalty".

 

[B0ski]

TRUTH! Rahm turned down the money before but said yes now. Why? PGA backstabbing after 18 months of begging for "loyalty".

PGA has definitely butchered this but if Rahm was offered 10 million no way he would have left the PGA tour. Money is the main driver and it’s not even close.

 

[jmc11201]

What I'm curious about is whether the PGA was sharing the economics of the tour with the players or not. And if they were, how LIV can make this work over time if all the players are getting significantly more money.

Like any business, the economics will ultimately dictate the outcome. Presumably the Tour took in money through sponsors, TV, events, and other ancillary businesses. Some of that money goes to operating costs, some to building reserves, some to 'growing the game', and a lot to the players. I haven't read anything that really implied that the PGA was paying players below what the economics dictated...in fact, by trying to keep up with LIV they were operating at a deficit.

If LIV plans to stick around and pay these higher costs to players, they have to figure out a way to generate a lot more revenue. Televising their events on the CW doesn't move the needle. LIV events are hardly must have tickets. Maybe they can grow internationally, but we all know that the most money is in the US.

It just seems like value is getting destroyed here across the board...both the PGA and LIV are worse off...so how do the economics work and what is PIFs/LIVs end game here?

 

[jtung230]

Rahm certainly didn't do it just for the money. A lot of guys are tired of the bullcrap from the PGA the last few years.

That’s why LIV only offered him 500+ million instead of 700mm.

 

[jtung230]

TRUTH! Rahm turned down the money before but said yes now. Why? PGA backstabbing after 18 months of begging for "loyalty".

Truth is Rahm never turned down 500+ million before. I’m just interested in hearing what BK thinks. He signed for less than half of what Rahm is getting.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Truth is Rahm never turned down 500+ million before. I’m just interested in hearing what BK thinks. He signed for less than half of what Rahm is getting.

He’s thinking LIV gave me more money than I would ever get from the PGA tour and I still get to win majors and play in the Ryder Cup. Life is good!

 

[chase07470]

So the top players will be on the LIV Tour. They will also play the majors and two to four PGA Tour events a year, probably the week before the majors to tune up.

What they're after is the value of the franchises. The costs of buying a sports team have gone parabolic. Dallas Mavericks were $250M in 2000 when Mark Cuba bought them, he just sold his stake for a total team valuation of $3.5B. So you give Rahm $600M over 10 years and anchor him in a franchise and what is the team now worth?

The problem is they're force feeding a product to fans who have shown no interest in embracing it. The franchises aren't worth much if no one watches. But with all the top players, I imagine we'll all give in and start watching.

Some of it makes sense...you can watch the last hour of it and see everyone's finish, all at once. Will we get into the team part, so what John Rahm is doing out there matters even though he's in 14th place in the individuals? Maybe. Sure seems like it will be great for gambling.
'
I'll forever be bothered by the fact the Saudi's waltzed in with all the money we give them for overpriced gasoline and wrecked the tradition of the game. But as Gary Player says, "Change is the price of survival." Some changes I like, this one I don't but sure am happy to still be here seeing it all play out.

 

[jtung230]

He’s thinking LIV gave me more money than I would ever get from the PGA tour and I still get to win majors and play in the Ryder Cup. Life is good!

Be crazy to turn down that kind of money. Rahm may never repeat the success he had last year again. Remember Jordan Speith when he was on that run.

 

[RU82]

This is LIV’s reaction to the PGA tour courting private equity partners.

For Rahm’s part, he wasn’t happy with how the PGA tour reacted in requiring their top players to play in more events than he would like. So he took the money and left.

 

[jmc11201]

The problem is they're force feeding a product to fans who have shown no interest in embracing it. The franchises aren't worth much if no one watches. But with all the top players, I imagine we'll all give in and start watching.

This is my issue. I am personally not interested in Rock n Roll golf and am not THAT attached to the players.

Now...I do enjoy late afternoon on Saturday and Sunday, turning on a higher profile gold tournament, and watching the ebb and flow of the round. I'm less a fan of the players than the drama. I don't think I had ever heard of Wyndham Clark prior to him winning the US Open, but that was probably my favorite golf moment of the year.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Be crazy to turn down that kind of money. Rahm may never repeat the success he had last year again. Remember Jordan Speith when he was on that run.

Nobody has sustained such a run since Tiger. Rory, JS, Brooks, DJ.....they all had runs over a few years, but none of them became a generational winner yet.

 

[T2Kplus20]

So the top players will be on the LIV Tour. They will also play the majors and two to four PGA Tour events a year, probably the week before the majors to tune up.

LIV players being able to participate in 2-4 PGA tourneys and vice versa would be very good for golf. Probably the best outcome we can hope for.

 

[jtung230]

LIV players being able to participate in 2-4 PGA tourneys and vice versa would be very good for golf. Probably the best outcome we can hope for.

You mean the best outcome LIV players can hope for. Still no points on LIV. Past major champs like Rahm will get exemptions but not sure how guys like Finau will do. It’s the LIV format that keeps people away. If it’s another tour with top players, it can do well.

 

[Caliknight]

LIV golf is not watchable. Feels like a Pro Am, but worse.

Team golf is dumb unless you are talking college golf. Golf is an individual event, save the Ryder and President Cup.

Courses have a big appeal in golf. Even if it isn't the entirety of the best golfers in the world, I'd rather watch PGA guys on those courses they play.

LIV needs to secure a much better TV contract and get points for playing in their events. Until then I'd be on pins and needles if I signed with them.

Saudi's aren't the most reliable business partners, especially when you consider they are losing billions. They could easily look at their balance sheet and say yea, this isn't worth it.

 

[WhiteBus]

So the deadline of New Year's Day has come and gone for an agreement between PGA and LIV. Now there is an extension to try to get it done. Monahan gave an update to the players saying there was progress recently (what have they been doing for 6months?) but no details at all. Doesn't he know the 2024 season starts Thursday???

 

[Ty Webb]

So the deadline of New Year's Day has come and gone for an agreement between PGA and LIV. Now there is an extension to try to get it done. Monahan gave an update to the players saying there was progress recently (what have they been doing for 6months?) but no details at all. Doesn't he know the 2024 season starts Thursday???

The whole thing is weird. But not sure the season starting matters much. I would guess that any agreement was likely going to keep things in place for 2024 and then whatever new thing comes would be for the 2025 season. Not knowing the details, we could be talking about shifting tournaments around, sponsors, etc. That likely couldn't happen for 2024 even if they had a final, signed agreement on Jan 1.