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OT: Why the real estate market is not in a bubble: Q1 2023 update video added to OP

2) Towns don't just stuff their coffers. Towns collect taxes for the services they need to provide. If everyone's value went up 20%, then raising assessed values 20% has no effect as they'd still collect the same amount of tax.
This is true. The total amount of property tax revenue that a town wants to collect is set every year with the budget process. Assessed value of individual properties is only used to figure out how much of this total each property owner pays (your slice of the pie). It's a zero sum game.
 
I’ll admit I’m not an expert in this area but I know people that bought big houses that sold for artificially low prices pre-COVID because taxes were $30K+ which hurt marketability. And the day after closing started the tax appeal process based on point of sale/price. What’s funny is that it wasn’t that long ago that the big houses with high taxes would sit on the market until the price came down below the expected range. Also, new construction is basically point of sale.
For tax appeals.....it doesn't matter if my property is say 50% overvalued/assessed if all other like properties in town are also 50% over assessed. For an appeal, you have to prove that you are 50% over-assessed BUT your neighbor with a similar house/property is assessed at fair market value.

It's about differences, which honestly do happen from time to time. However, the large majority of tax appeals and inquiries fail.
 
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This, most industries still can’t even come close to filling open, business critical positions. Where are these layoffs going to come from?

thinking instead of mass layoffs you’re just going to see a lot of companies straight up go belly-up.
I don't know what blogs you guys read or what real background some of you have other than mtg bankers and re agents because hiring and employment falls into several categories.

Hell, GS, Chase, and plenty of fortune 500 and 100 have announced layoffs or cuts to hring and reduction through attrition.

No one gives a fk about the minimum wage earners and body filler roles.

The Fed has backed themselves into a corner and are always behind the curve. What they need to do is reduce the balance sheet aggressively as that will have the most impact with limited rate damage. On top of that, they need to tighten lending restrictions for banks. Kill the revolving credit expansion and you kill inflation
 
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I don't know what blogs you guys read or what real background some of you have other than mtg bankers and re agents because hiring and employment falls into several categories.

Hell, GS, Chase, and plenty of fortune 500 and 100 have announced layoffs or cuts to hring and reduction through attrition.

No one gives a fk about the minimum wage earners and body filler roles.

The Fed has backed themselves into a corner and are always behind the curve. What they need to do is reduce the balance sheet aggressively as that will have the most impact with limited rate damage. On top of that, they need to tighten lending restrictions for banks. Kill the revolving credit expansion and you kill inflation
Why is the Fed so stupid? They messed up in 2021 by using lagging data and are now repeating the same mistake. WTF?
 
I’ll admit I’m not an expert in this area but I know people that bought big houses that sold for artificially low prices pre-COVID because taxes were $30K+ which hurt marketability. And the day after closing started the tax appeal process based on point of sale/price. What’s funny is that it wasn’t that long ago that the big houses with high taxes would sit on the market until the price came down below the expected range. Also, new construction is basically point of sale.
New construction is a different story due to it being new and needing a new assessment. Theyre taxes as a % of value anyway regardless
 
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I don't know what blogs you guys read or what real background some of you have other than mtg bankers and re agents because hiring and employment falls into several categories.

Hell, GS, Chase, and plenty of fortune 500 and 100 have announced layoffs or cuts to hring and reduction through attrition.

No one gives a fk about the minimum wage earners and body filler roles.

The Fed has backed themselves into a corner and are always behind the curve. What they need to do is reduce the balance sheet aggressively as that will have the most impact with limited rate damage. On top of that, they need to tighten lending restrictions for banks. Kill the revolving credit expansion and you kill inflation
Lending restrictions at least in real estate have been as tight as ever past decade. Did you see jobless claims numbers today? At what point do they step back and say wow alot of boomers (a huge demo) are retiring so were going to have a lot more job openings than normal. I dont know the answer
 
Why is the Fed so stupid? They messed up in 2021 by using lagging data and are now repeating the same mistake. WTF?
Fed is wrong 90%+ of the time. The last time they got it right was quietly saving Europe's ass via central bank dollar swap lines reaching almost 1 trillion (italy should be blowing us) but the Fed is rarely right and rarely has the correct view imho. I think there is ample evidence of this

that said, employment, employment that matters, will soften considerably.
 
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Fed is wrong 90%+ of the time. The last time they got it right was quietly saving Europe's ass via central bank dollar swap lines reaching almost 1 trillion (italy should be blowing us) but the Fed is rarely right and rarely has the correct view imho. I think there is ample evidence of this

that said, employment, employment that matters, will soften considerably.

How is bailing out the Europeans "getting it right"?

The Fed is responsible for the US, not the world.
 
This, most industries still can’t even come close to filling open, business critical positions. Where are these layoffs going to come from?

thinking instead of mass layoffs you’re just going to see a lot of companies straight up go belly-up.
Manufacturing industries are going to be shedding jobs. As sales continue to get impacted there will be more layoffs in associated Business including the white collar hires that were brought on to help deal with record sales

Service industries still have a worker shortage.
 
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and that is exactly what they did


All they did was kick the can down the road make the problem worse, which is why we are in the situation we are in today. Europe has been a house of cards for a long time and this time the Fed isn't coming to the rescue. Europe is in deep, deep trouble.

The decision to detach the US from LIBOR and create SOFR creates a buffer between the US and European financial contagion. We will feel pain in the US as well, but it will be much worse in Europe and emerging markets. It seems to me that Powell is focused on saving the US, hopefully he has the strength to keep it up because the political pressure will be intense by the current administration.
 
Lending restrictions at least in real estate have been as tight as ever past decade. Did you see jobless claims numbers today? At what point do they step back and say wow alot of boomers (a huge demo) are retiring so were going to have a lot more job openings than normal. I dont know the answer
You've highlighted the single most significant factor (IMO) for why the labor market has been so tight--my generation of baby boomers have begun retirement.
 
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You've highlighted the single most significant factor (IMO) for why the labor market has been so tight--my generation of baby boomers have begun retirement.

And our birth rate is not enough to replace them. We need growth in our population
 
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This, most industries still can’t even come close to filling open, business critical positions. Where are these layoffs going to come from?

thinking instead of mass layoffs you’re just going to see a lot of companies straight up go belly-up.
To tell you how bad it is, I'm taking my first full week of vacation since July 2019, even though I have hundreds of hours available.
 
To tell you how bad it is, I'm taking my first full week of vacation since July 2019, even though I have hundreds of hours available.
I'm in the same boat as you but I'm exposed to a wider range industries in my role. Slowdowns are happening big time right now. And inventories are also very high for businesses with lots of exposure. Im clearly very bearish, but I really think things are about to get super ugly. Might be wrong but it's looking like the pendulum is swinging hard in the opposite direction.
 
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You’ll get the bottom 5% of GS coming to the market soon. Sure you will see more. The only problem is that most still think that they should get pay X like it’s 2021.
spot on

I'm trying to fill two SVP roles in my group and the quantity, quality and asking pay is terrible. It's why I say there is employment and then employment that matters. these roles are the higher tier tax filers and this is where the focus and attention needs to be placed.
 
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Cap rates and interest rates have become compressed. Negative leverage doesn't work in real estate. What should/will happen is cap rates rise, construction costs come down or both.
 
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Also talking to neighbors the conversation is changing from "did you hear how high the price was on the house down the street to my friend cant sell her how two offers fell through and they reduced the price twice"
Im friends with the author of that article. He is calling for 5% nationwide price declines. If interest rates stay this high I believe demand/sales rate will soften enough to allow inventory to grow to get us in that range too. Personally, i didnt foresee interest rates getting this high. First time ever rates moved this fast.

the crazy thing is the fundamentals of the market are so so so so strong that the only thing that could send prices in a decline is the fed forcefully and intentionally trying to send them down. I think the fed will go too far and be forced to cut rates sooner than they believe
 
The fed is going to have to go higher than they already have. The interest rates are going up again before they go back down
 
The fed is going to have to go higher than they already have. The interest rates are going up again before they go back down
For mortgages the number to follow is the 10 yesr treasury obviously. Its out of whack right now. Historically 10Y Treasury + 175 is the 30 year fixed rate mortgage. Right now it’s 10 year treasury + 300. Rates should be around 5.5% right now.

 
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For mortgages the number to follow is the 10 yesr treasury obviously. Its our of whack right now. Historically 10Y Treasury + 175 is the 30 year fixed rate mortgage. Right now it’s 10 year treasury + 300. Rates should be around 5.5% right now.

Is it out of whack? Credit spreads are wider in every market. There is no such thing as “should be”.
 
Is it out of whack? Credit spreads are wider in every market. There is no such thing as “should be”.
Historically thats what the implied rate would be. The best mortgage credit analyst I follow believes theyll be 5.5% to end the year. We’ll see
 
Lol. I'd beg to differ on jp although things have changed since my time there. Credit spreads will probably go wider based on associated cds.
Why do you believe this and when do you think they come back to normalcy
 
credit spreads have to widen more given the fx issues, it forces a revaluation of stocks probably to the tune of another 8-12% downward. On top of that, we'll get debt payment issues because of said FX issues as 80% of all assets are denominated in dollars which impacts all mkts. On top of that, housing is clearly cooling and will continue to do so under increasing unemployment. Bond mkt is never wrong and bond and swaps mkts are telling us that more pain ahead
 
credit spreads have to widen more given the fx issues, it forces a revaluation of stocks probably to the tune of another 8-12% downward. On top of that, we'll get debt payment issues because of said FX issues as 80% of all assets are denominated in dollars which impacts all mkts. On top of that, housing is clearly cooling and will continue to do so under increasing unemployment. Bond mkt is never wrong and bond and swaps mkts are telling us that more pain ahead
I agree but you havent answered my main question regarding timeframe for when spreads come in though. Housing will be impacted mostly be rates, current homeowners are in the best position theyve ever been
 
I’ll admit I’m not an expert in this area but I know people that bought big houses that sold for artificially low prices pre-COVID because taxes were $30K+ which hurt marketability. And the day after closing started the tax appeal process based on point of sale/price. What’s funny is that it wasn’t that long ago that the big houses with high taxes would sit on the market until the price came down below the expected range. Also, new construction is basically point of sale.
No expert either, but I doubt there would be enough of a tax change to make it a smart buy
Certainly not worth the gamble of a significant tax decrease
 
10 yr is about to hit 4%!!!!
Wild haha. So insane. Heres an insane data point released today. Just how much demand is sitting on the sideline ready to pounce? Mortgage rates dipped to the low 5’s in july/august. The result? Sales month over month were up 18.3% and compared with a year prior, down just .1% yoy. The only thing that can slow the real estate market down is rates rising at a historically high rate, which is happening
 
@kyk1827 I'll let you buy out of your bet for less if you want to send it to Rutgers now. A few bucks today will be worth more than in a year
Your bet was that nationwide real estate prices drop 20% measured by case-shiller right? With the rates this high we will see slight price drops now but nothing major imo. Tbh I didnt think rates would get this high. Market is so strong fundamentally thats why people are perplexed why the market hasnt “crashed”
 
I'm in on this. Just confirming
I now see. Your call is prices retrace to 2020 as measured by case-shiller. Not happening.
Reality is no one will pay me/pay RU when youre wrong but thats okay
 
I'll say it again and again. The fed is fixated on the high monthly CPI number. It's the only thing that consumes their minds. And owner adjusted rent is the bulk of it. It's the only thing the fed has control over. And they are going after it and will not stop until it comes down. If it means recession so be it.

Moreover it's vital to the long run health of the US economy that the fed is able to anchor inflation and inflation expectations.
They will keep raising until OER comes down. They will just make it impossible for people to buy homes
 
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