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OT: Why the real estate market is not in a bubble: Q1 2023 update video added to OP

home you purchased in the way out suburbs where you cant find another remote job does not look so good forcing you to move closer in...
This is where it gets interesting…while the 5 day work week may be gone for good, no chance in the next few years that WFH continues as it stands today with such a high number of remote workers. Quiet quitting is real and lack of engagement not good for company growth.
 
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Layoffs and more coming. People will need to sell and more inventory will hit the market suddenly the home you purchased in the way out suburbs where you cant find another remote job does not look so good forcing you to move closer in....

Side note Goldman forcing workers back to the office you cant work from Florida anymore and get paid NY Wages. Those days are gone just like 3% mortages

Fed is not slowing down anytime soon until inflation gets back under 3%. There will be some pain and layoffs, but probably nothing too dramatic. Housing market has ways to go, nothing like 2008 though.
 
Just had the housing conversation with my neighbor who owns a pretty successful Hedgefund- his take is that numbers are already taking a 2008 type of hit but it hasn't been released.
We didn't get into it too deep, convo came up during a morning walk...

Take it for what it's worth but the man is living in a $25mil 2nd home...
Stock market and hedge fund guys arent worthy of having real estate convos with. They all believe that housing trades like stocks. Anyone comparing this to 2008 isnt worth consideration imo. They would have to have looked into zero facts to come to that conclusion
 
Layoffs and more coming. People will need to sell and more inventory will hit the market suddenly the home you purchased in the way out suburbs where you cant find another remote job does not look so good forcing you to move closer in....

Side note Goldman forcing workers back to the office you cant work from Florida anymore and get paid NY Wages. Those days are gone just like 3% mortages

Job loss, foreclosures and bankruptcy have to go up, theyre at all time lows. Household Balance sheets are historically strong and equity positions strong as well. It wont bring a significant amount of inventory to market but will bring some for sure. Average credit score currently of borrowers have been between 776-788
 
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This is where it gets interesting…while the 5 day work week may be gone for good, no chance in the next few years that WFH continues as it stands today with such a high number of remote workers. Quiet quitting is real and lack of engagement not good for company growth.

Many high paying industries will continue WFH as they made money hand over fist, and continue to, since March 2020.

And, a lot of smaller banks will come in, pay the same as Goldman if not more, and treat employees with decency.

Your employer is your employer, not your babysitter. If they're making more money and things are getting done, a good employer would not care that it takes less than 40 hours or whatever their supposed standard is.
 
lol every major bank and company wants wfh very limited and restrictive.
 
10 year is now above 3.3%. I was invited by a big investment bank for real estate conf. One of the topics was single-family rentals. Institutional ownership is bigger than you think.
 
Why is there still so much development still going on? I was in Newark this weekend and saw more new construction on Broad street. Are there that many people that want to live in Newark at rent of 2,500-6,000 month? I thought everyone was leaving New Jersey.

This project has started building the structure frame.



The Westinghouse block is finally being developed.


This is on top of the Newark Bear stadium redevelopment. All of these project surround the Broad Street railroad station- connects with NYC Penn Station.

 
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Why is there still so much development still going on? I was in Newark this weekend and saw more new construction on Broad street. Are there that many people that want to live in Newark at rent of 2,500-6,000 month? I thought everyone was leaving New Jersey.

This project has started building the structure.



The Westinghouse block is finally being developed.


This is on top of the Newark Bear stadium redevelopment. All of these project surround the Broad Street railroad station- connects with NYC Penn Station.

Cheaper than Manhattan and a short commute. I'm surprised it didn't happen long ago.
 
Cheaper than Manhattan and a short commute. I'm surprised it didn't happen long ago.
I guess there’s no more room in Jersey City and Hoboken or too expensive there. Prudential Insurance started it a few years ago when they built a second building for their HQ.
 
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Construction at the peak of market. What can go wrong?
I agree but these projects were years in the making, I wonder if they locked in the low interest loans. Bloomfield also has several apartment complex that went up recently.
 
I guess there’s no more room in Jersey City and Hoboken or too expensive there. Prudential Insurance started it a few years ago when they built a second building for their HQ.
Jersey City, Hoboken, Brooklyn, all filled up and expensive. Newark has two train lines into Manhattan and lots of empty lots and derelict buildings for development. It would just be nice to see truly affordable housing being stamped out there instead of "affordable." Newark has to be a cheap place to build apartments compared to surrounding towns and it once had a population of over half a million. It could add tens of thousands of residents.
 
Construction at the peak of market. What can go wrong?
That's not a problem if there's long term demand, which there has to be given that so many people want to live in or near New York but it's so full and so expensive. Units will just take longer to sell or rent.
 
Jersey City, Hoboken, Brooklyn, all filled up and expensive. Newark has two train lines into Manhattan and lots of empty lots and derelict buildings for development. It would just be nice to see truly affordable housing being stamped out there instead of "affordable." Newark has to be a cheap place to build apartments compared to surrounding towns and it once had a population of over half a million. It could add tens of thousands of residents.
With rent going up, I guess it make financial sense to build them. I think the insurance companies are investing in these projects.

It’s funny, I noticed my father building on River St, Paterson (ghetto)which was burned down after we sold it 20 years ago is now being developed with a four story building. I guess with rent going for 2,000 or more a month it makes sense. We use to charge only 300-500 month for rent. Poor people are getting killed with rent.
 
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I agree but these projects were years in the making, I wonder if they locked in the low interest loans. Bloomfield also has several apartment complex that went up recently.
Construction loans are mostly floaters.
 
With rent going up, I guess it make financial sense to build them. I think the insurance companies are investing in these projects.

It’s funny, I noticed my father building on River St, Paterson (ghetto)which was burned down after we sold it 20 years ago is now being developed with a four story building. I guess with rent going for 2,000 or more a month it makes sense. We use to charge only 300-500 month for rent. Poor people are getting killed with rent.
Rents are not going up fast enough to offset the rising rates. Insurance companies are not the smart money.
 
Rents are not going up fast enough to offset the rising rates. Insurance companies are not the smart money.
I'm sure they are easily high enough for builders to make money. They'll just make less with rising interest rates. But real estate is almost always profitable, especially in densely populated areas.
 
With rent going up, I guess it make financial sense to build them. I think the insurance companies are investing in these projects.

It’s funny, I noticed my father building on River St, Paterson (ghetto)which was burned down after we sold it 20 years ago is now being developed with a four story building. I guess with rent going for 2,000 or more a month it makes sense. We use to charge only 300-500 month for rent. Poor people are getting killed with rent.
The Shaq Building is supposed to have some affordable units--"affordable." I have a feeling the "moderate income" units in a building with his name on it are not going to be $750/month. Nobody builds housing for poor people--that's why government used to build projects. They get housing discarded by people further up the income ladder. If you build a lot of new, truly affordable, mid-priced housing people in that income range will abandon the older stuff for the new stuff and poor people can move into their housing, which will be better than where they are now. But because enough housing doesn't get built their properties are just getting gentrified and they have nowhere to go.
 
I'm sure they are easily high enough for builders to make money. They'll just make less with rising interest rates. But real estate is almost always profitable, especially in densely populated areas.
Not really. Most are borrowing at negative leverage. Real estate is capital intensive. Already seeing defaults in the MF space.
 
Not really. Most are borrowing at negative leverage. Real estate is capital intensive. Already seeing defaults in the MF space.
Please explain why so many developers are building in Newark. It’s not one developer but more like 15 developers. I thought all the new building in NYC the last 20 years didn’t make sense but they’re build and someone is collecting rent.
 
Please explain why so many developers are building in Newark. It’s not one developer but more like 15 developers. I thought all the new building in NYC the last 20 years didn’t make sense but they’re build and someone is collecting rent.
Real estate is cyclical. The same developers were building in 2006/2007. It’s all they know.
 
We are selling my In -Laws property in North Bergen Paterson Plank Road..double lot...great for developer, if anyone interested ...Zoned mixed use...rebuilt or reno with tenants...
 
I was pleasantly surprised to learn that Newark's population has been rebounding in recent years. The Newark riots after MLK died started a decades-long population exodus. So really glad to hear investment is coming to the city.
 
Good thing I don’t trade rates. 10 yr is now 3.43%. Soft landing in equities is out of the picture. Now real estate will follow. 1 month SOFR rate at 2.85% will absolutely kill the refi market.
 
This is ironic timing; not a week ago, I told our Board, at work, that we're not in a RE bubble, but we are in a vehicle bubble and that many people are buying more vehicle than they can afford. Repos will rise, as will bankruptcies and then the vehicle bubble will burst.
 
I was pleasantly surprised to learn that Newark's population has been rebounding in recent years. The Newark riots after MLK died started a decades-long population exodus. So really glad to hear investment is coming to the city.
Newark has rebounded, though not to the degree of Jersey City. I'm planning on moving to JC when I retire.
 
I was pleasantly surprised to learn that Newark's population has been rebounding in recent years. The Newark riots after MLK died started a decades-long population exodus. So really glad to hear investment is coming to the city.
The population of Newark and most other industrial cities had already been declining for 15 to 20 years before the riots. They probably just accelerated the population loss.
 
Newark has rebounded, though not to the degree of Jersey City. I'm planning on moving to JC when I retire.

My reference points for the area are dated, but I remember how Hoboken was revitalized in, like six months. Hoboken, IIRC, was run-down & largely abandoned (except for Stevens Tech). Hoboken has great access to NYC and cheap rents. Newark may get its day again - the city's history and neighborhoods are really interesting to me.

As a sidebar - I had a poly sci class Ramapo College and the professor invited the then-major of Jersey City to speak to the class - Gerald McCann. He was a great speaker - in a Sopranos sort-of way. He bragged about winning the election, in part, by cutting the power to housing projects on election day so the elevators wouldn't work. He didn't actually say that directly but described the events in a wink-wink way with a huge shit-eating grin. The class was totally mesmerized by the guy. He was later convicted of fraud and removed from office. But in his day, he was a powerful Hudson County Democratic machine pol.
 
Anecdotal but in my neighborhood which is an upper middle class Pittsburgh suburb with a top 10 PA school district. There are 3 houses that have just sat since march. They were priced as if rates were still 3 percent. They all dropped their prices and they are still sitting unsold.
 
Anecdotal but in my neighborhood which is an upper middle class Pittsburgh suburb with a top 10 PA school district. There are 3 houses that have just sat since march. They were priced as if rates were still 3 percent. They all dropped their prices and they are still sitting unsold.

Fun fact - Newark has a bigger population than Pittsburgh.
 
The population of Newark and most other industrial cities had already been declining for 15 to 20 years before the riots. They probably just accelerated the population loss.

Yes, this was true. However, I'd argue that the riots - among other things - made middle-class families move out of the industrial cities and left behind the poorest residents. There was a big racial component to this as well.
 
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Yes, this was true. However, I'd argue that the riots - among other things - made middle-class families move out of the industrial cities and left behind the poorest residents. There was a big racial component to this as well.
Possibly but then it might just be propaganda aimed at the people who rioted against police brutality, to claim they drove other people out (and undermine their cause) when the far bigger reason for population loss was white flight to the suburbs. They probably did drive some people out but it has long been portrayed as THE reason people left, as if that wasn't happening until the riots.
 
Totally hear you. I don’t think it’s unusual to get a nice housewarming check from mom and pops but hearing lots of people that went big on homes because the parents made meaningful contributions. Would have been great if my parents threw me a few bucks but instead I had to settle for a starter home that was within a tight budget.
 
Totally hear you. I don’t think it’s unusual to get a nice housewarming check from mom and pops but hearing lots of people that went big on homes because the parents made meaningful contributions. Would have been great if my parents threw me a few bucks but instead I had to settle for a starter home that was within a tight budget.
Yup, know the feeling.. over time you’re able to trade up as the market rises. It works, just need to be patient.

At the end of the day we can all be satisfied that whatever we have, we did it on our own. No indebtedness to anyone.. In many cases, big checks from parents come with strings.. Im happy I was able to avoid all that.
 
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This is ironic timing; not a week ago, I told our Board, at work, that we're not in a RE bubble, but we are in a vehicle bubble and that many people are buying more vehicle than they can afford. Repos will rise, as will bankruptcies and then the vehicle bubble will burst.
not sure I understand your logic here. You think people will file for BK but keep their mortgage current?
 
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